Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[masmojo]

Also, I think the sealant gets between the bead and the rim and over time it 
hardens and the air doesn't seep through, whereas when you first mount the tire 
it still soft and air can seep out more easily. 

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Joe Bernard]

"The longer the tire is mounted the better it seems to hold air; up to the 
point that it gets old. Makes sense really."

This must be related to something James said about Rene Herse tires seeping 
from the sidewalls when new. I guess as you pile on the miles the goop gets 
coated inside the tire, and adding a little every few months builds it up more. 

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[masmojo]

Well, I think that maybe if I was lighter than 230 I might be able to run a 
lower pressure, but I found if I go down more than 6 or 7 Lbs. the bike is 
noticeably slower & tires start to roll uncomfortably @ 25lbs.  (Tire 
examples: in the 650B X 42-47 range)

I tried Stan's on my first attempt & I couldn't get it to seal, I've had 
better success with the Orange Seal, it seems ever so slightly thicker, the 
Stans seemed almost watery.

The longer the tire is mounted the better it seems to hold air; up to the 
point that it gets old. Makes sense really.


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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Patrick Moore]

I am not at all trying to be contradictory; quite the contrary; but I think
it's well to state one's own experience if it might help others. The Great,
Flaming, Roaring cosmic principle applies: *YMMV.*

My own experience is that even very thin-casing tubeless tires don't
require pumping any more often than thin clinchers with thin tubes. In
fact, I overfilled the fron Big One on the Matthews 3 weeks ago,
I guesstimate north of 25 (couldn't use my tire gauge because of the
blockage), and was annoyed because the valve was glued shut by the sealant,
but was too lazy to remove the core. Now, 3 weeks or more later, I've lost
a few psi, so the pressure is probably about the usual 20-21 or so. I do
think that OS in particular builds up a skin on the inside of tubeless
tires, so this may be a factor; but even when using Stan's -- which dried
into octopuses and not skins -- I didn't find that I had to pump more often
than with tubes.

As for very low pressures: I think that depends on the tire. The
lighter-than-Rene-Herse Big Ones feel fast at 16 psi; where they feel bad
is in corners, what with the sidewall flop -- supple-er tires require more
air pressure to support the sidewalls than heavier tires. Likewise, today I
had another slow leak on the gofast; noticed the rear was soft because I
started bouncing, but I felt no more drag.

Patrick Moore, who thinks that it's about time to change that rear Elk Pass
...

On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 2:25 PM masmojo  wrote:

> ... The downside of tubeless as I experience it is, you do have to top up
> the pressure in your tire before just about every ride. Or every other day
> if you ride a lot.
>
> As far as tire pressure goes, yes you can ride on ridiculously low
> pressure, but it's not advisable; it does slow you down considerably. I've
> found I basically run the same pressure as with tubes, the main thing is
> the ride is different it feels like lower pressure even if it isn't! Sort
> of in between clinches & tubular tires is the description I've heard & I
> would say that's a good description, but only relevant if you've ridden
> tubulars.
>
> --

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[masmojo]

It's all relative really; if you are running lightweight tubes & tires then you 
might not see a noticable difference in weight,  but any weight saving is 
really just a bonus. Now if for instance you are running something like 
Marathons with those thick layers of flat prevention stuff (technical term), 
your tubeless tire likely won't have any of that so you would likely see some 
savings as you would switching from the stock Clem tire with standard tubes to 
a light tubeless set up.

BUT, the main advantage would be not getting stranded by a tack, thorn, staple, 
etc.

The downside of tubeless as I experience it is, you do have to top up the 
pressure in your tire before just about every ride. Or every other day if you 
ride a lot.

As far as tire pressure goes, yes you can ride on ridiculously low pressure, 
but it's not advisable; it does slow you down considerably. I've found I 
basically run the same pressure as with tubes, the main thing is the ride is 
different it feels like lower pressure even if it isn't! Sort of in between 
clinches & tubular tires is the description I've heard & I would say that's a 
good description, but only relevant if you've ridden tubulars.

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Joe Bernard]

Well I can't help ya with your concerns about "tubeless proponent", I started 
on the side of not wanting to ever bother with the damn things again. I'm not 
now suddenly a tubeless evangelist who thinks all tubed tires are evil, I'm 
just trying to learn and be open to new stuff that might work for me. 

As of today all my bikes have tubes, including a Frank Jones with 700 x 38 
Compass Barlow Pass and lightweight tubes. It rides like buttah and I'll 
probably get flats. I can fix them. 

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[ted]

Sorry, I guess I'm just too dense to grasp implicit assumptions in 160 post 
threads that wander about a bit. Some of the recent posts have an ok boomer 
feel with a side of righteous certainty about the absolute superiority of 
tubeless over tubes the denial of which could only be explained by the 
stubborn crotchetyness of the denier.

If the assertion is that you can get a virtually flat free experience with 
a tubeless setup that is lighter and rides nicer than an uber stout 
impenetrable tire (thereby assuring a similarly flat fee experience) and 
tube, well yea I guess I get that.

I wish all tubeless proponents should take a tip form P. Moore and stick 
with something like:
  Hey you want imperviousness to goatheads without riding tires that have a 
quarter inch of latex under the tread? Then try tubeless.

In the context of who started the thread, do you really think Leah has to 
worry about pinch flats on her Clem?
I bet she weighs less than i do, and she has room for fatter tires than any 
bike I own. No pinch flats is at best specious here.

Now can somebody point me to a 650b 38mm tire that rolls as easily as a 
Compass/RH extra light that won't weep sealant through the sidewalls if I 
set it up tubeless?

On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 4:35:01 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Yes, you can ride lighter/plusher tires at lower pressure with tubeless 
> for a similar 'no flatting' result than what something like a Schwalbe with 
> a tube and puncture protection would offer. Sure, if you're light yourself 
> and want to ride thin tires with thin tubes then maybe the benefits are 
> negated. I believe we're talking about flat protection, too, in the context 
> of this conversation and who started the thread. 

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[bruce.herbit...@gmail.com]

 I helped a local friend spec her Clem L purchase recently, and we went with 
upgraded lighter Velocity wheels and the Conti "Basketball" tires instead of 
the usual Schwalbe rubber.  The bike is of course not light, but it rolls like 
a dream and she (an oboe player in her 60s) cruised a hilly loop today (17 
miles, 1,200') and was NOT the last person in (all spaced out 100' or more)  
So, tubeless may have some benefit, but there are good, ligher choices with 
conventional set-ups too. To quote  Queen, "Get on yer bikes and ride!"
On Thursday, April 16, 2020, 06:35:07 PM CDT, Joe Bernard 
 wrote:  
 
 Yes, you can ride lighter/plusher tires at lower pressure with tubeless for a 
similar 'no flatting' result than what something like a Schwalbe with a tube 
and puncture protection would offer. Sure, if you're light yourself and want to 
ride thin tires with thin tubes then maybe the benefits are negated. I believe 
we're talking about flat protection, too, in the context of this conversation 
and who started the thread. 

  

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, you can ride lighter/plusher tires at lower pressure with tubeless for a 
similar 'no flatting' result than what something like a Schwalbe with a tube 
and puncture protection would offer. Sure, if you're light yourself and want to 
ride thin tires with thin tubes then maybe the benefits are negated. I believe 
we're talking about flat protection, too, in the context of this conversation 
and who started the thread. 

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[ted]

"But the reality is tubeless has weight and tire advantages that are 
noticeable on a ride, ..."

I keep reading assertions like this, but I don't see how its true.
Re weight:
I have two 650b bikes. One is tubeless the other has tubes. The tubes I use 
are 108gr (aka 3.8oz) schwalbe SV14 extralight. I presume my tubeless tires 
have 3oz of sealant in them. Apparently I should add 2oz to each tire after 
6 month or so. I don't see how there is a weight savings here. Certainly 
nothing noticeable.
Re tire advantages (meaning better ride?)
If you are big/heavy enough that you are forced to use higher pressure than 
you otherwise would to avoid pinch flats ok fine. But that is not my 
situation, and I suspect it is not a factor for a lot of riders.

The only advantage of tubeless that I believe is real is not flatting when 
pierced by thorns or staples/wires etc.


On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 12:23:31 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I think the argument James is presenting applies to folks like me, a 57yo 
> guy who's been riding tubed tires for decades and knows what the deal is 
> with them. As I've expressed before (probably in this thread, definitely on 
> this forum), I struggled to figure out tubeless tires on a bike I owned and 
> kinda threw in the towel..tubes work and I understand them. 
>
> But the reality is tubeless has weight and tire advantages that are 
> noticeable on a ride, it's not something arcane like buying a rear derailer 
> with a few grams knocked off. So I watched the Analog live thing on 
> Instagram yesterday and learned a bunch. What was more interesting to me 
> than the project itself was how easy it was for folks with no tire 
> changing/mounting experience to follow. I could "see" them not having to 
> unlearn stuff I know so they could learn a new thing, they just got the new 
> thing as though that's the way it works. It helped a LOT for me to watch it 
> from their POV. 
>
> I thing tubeless makes sense, even if some folks are happy with their 
> tubes. I like friction and indexing, too  

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Mark Roland]

Wait. Are you saying Old Dog, New Trick!?

I don't recall ever reading an opinion by Grant regarding tubeless vs. 
tube.  Might have missed it, but it's not an area that has as much to do 
with the things I was talking about a post or two back. I do suspect *most* 
"tubeless ready" rims these days do not come with brake tracks...though 
some must. Pacenti. Probably others, for the short term anywho.

On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 3:23:31 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I think the argument James is presenting applies to folks like me, a 57yo 
> guy who's been riding tubed tires for decades and knows what the deal is 
> with them. As I've expressed before (probably in this thread, definitely on 
> this forum), I struggled to figure out tubeless tires on a bike I owned and 
> kinda threw in the towel..tubes work and I understand them. 
>
> But the reality is tubeless has weight and tire advantages that are 
> noticeable on a ride, it's not something arcane like buying a rear derailer 
> with a few grams knocked off. So I watched the Analog live thing on 
> Instagram yesterday and learned a bunch. What was more interesting to me 
> than the project itself was how easy it was for folks with no tire 
> changing/mounting experience to follow. I could "see" them not having to 
> unlearn stuff I know so they could learn a new thing, they just got the new 
> thing as though that's the way it works. It helped a LOT for me to watch it 
> from their POV. 
>
> I thing tubeless makes sense, even if some folks are happy with their 
> tubes. I like friction and indexing, too  

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Joe Bernard]

I think the argument James is presenting applies to folks like me, a 57yo guy 
who's been riding tubed tires for decades and knows what the deal is with them. 
As I've expressed before (probably in this thread, definitely on this forum), I 
struggled to figure out tubeless tires on a bike I owned and kinda threw in the 
towel..tubes work and I understand them. 

But the reality is tubeless has weight and tire advantages that are noticeable 
on a ride, it's not something arcane like buying a rear derailer with a few 
grams knocked off. So I watched the Analog live thing on Instagram yesterday 
and learned a bunch. What was more interesting to me than the project itself 
was how easy it was for folks with no tire changing/mounting experience to 
follow. I could "see" them not having to unlearn stuff I know so they could 
learn a new thing, they just got the new thing as though that's the way it 
works. It helped a LOT for me to watch it from their POV. 

I thing tubeless makes sense, even if some folks are happy with their tubes. I 
like friction and indexing, too  

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[masmojo]

Well, Mark you read that correctly; back in the day I read articles Grant wrote 
promoting the idea that one could ride skinny tires offroad and you didn't 
really need big fat tires.

That's true, but big fat tires do make it more enjoyable. 

So, yes the new hilly bikes and even the Clems are really throwbacks to 25 
years ago. That's not an indictment, those were great bikes/times and I'd like 
to go back to that time if I could!

Just sayin; progress happens.

Whether we like it or not.

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Mark Roland]

On Thursday, April 16, 2020 , masmojo wrote:"*Grant does come around to 
things it just takes time. Hilly bikes are not something he would have done 
25 years ago, but here we are!"*

Again, this makes it sound as though Grant is stuck in the past but, given 
enough time, will eventually come around to see the light. However, just as 
an artist might use oil paint her whole career, even as her style develops 
and changes, a bicycle designer's approach to designing bicycles will also 
change and develop, though the basic ingredients remain essentially the 
same. Hilly bikes are the product of a long career thinking about and 
designing bicycles, not a new technology in and of themselves. (And, 
ironically in this context, harken back to the mountain bike designs of the 
1980s. So what you are saying in a sense is, it took him 25 years to go 
back to where the cutting edge of bicycle design was 35 years ago!;^)*

*Obviously HilliBikes are more than just a revival of vintage mountain 
bikes, and riding my Clem L is a different experience than riding my 1980s 
Trek 830 or Peugeot Express, but that certainly is the foundation, the 
inspirational jumping off point.




>

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Fullylugged]

leah wrote:

"But I had these battery lights. The rechargeable Cygolite is just the worst. 
It would start flickering, threatening to die on me after only 45 minutes of 
use. I hate it. Plus, it’s taking up real estate on my already crowded bars. I 
will say my rack light that is battery operated is ok, but it’s cheap plastic 
and I’m pretty sure if I bump it into anything it’s going to shatter. Well, the 
thrill of those night rides was being impeded by the fear of running out of 
battery and being stranded without light. Not the end of the world on my 
well-lit MUP up Killer Hill but a total deal breaker for when I’m in the bike 
lane on the street."

Peter White Cycles (https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/lightingsystems.php) is 
really the place to look for solid lighting, both battery and generator style. 
My 1st good light was an Ixon IQ from there many years ago.  I like Dinotte 
lights best personally, in the battery style. Their proprietary rechargeable 
units go a long time and are very bright. Even their older stuff is good.  I 
bought an old Dinotte headlamp from Eric "Campy Only" on this list a while 
back. It uses 4 AA cells.  I ordered 2900 ma rechargeable batteries and a 
couple of extra AA holders. I can swap out on long rides, but on a typical 1 
1/2 to 2 hr ride don't need to.  Generator hubs are now available with very low 
friction drag. You can also use a solar power set up on one of your racks to 
run/charge.

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[masmojo]

Everything new isn't better (like PF30 BBs), but plenty of old things, even 
good old things are not as good as some of the newer things. 
The things that work will stick around and the things that can be improved on 
will fade away. 
Yes, rim brakes can be just as effective, (sometimes more so) than disc brakes, 
but I favor disc.
I fitted some Pauls Mini Moto's to my Atlantis & honestly they grip so hard I 
am afraid to ride the thing lest I land on my head! 

Grant does come around to things it just takes time. Hilly bikes are not 
something he would have done 25 years ago, but here we are! Unfortunately, 
sometimes destiny forces his hand, like when Rivendells lug maker decided to 
shut down.
I do think it's highly unlikely he'll embrace thru axles & disc brakes in my 
lifetime though.

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Mark Roland]

On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 James / Analog Cycles wrote:  *"I think if 
Rivendell was being created now, rather than in 1994, Grant would have a 
very different view on tubeless, disc brakes, rim profiles etc."*

I disagree. Just because someone is a certain age doesn't mean all of their 
likes and proclivities are defined simply by what was or was not available 
when they were thirty. I'm a handful of years younger than Grant, and I 
know lots of riders older than either he or I who embrace discs, tubeless, 
what have you. Choosing not to use these technologies is not so much about 
nostalgia or being retro or grumpy retro or this works so why "improve" 
it.  It's  more about the relationship of us humans  to the technologies we 
use, and what a given technology does to the experience, as well as to us, 
our culture, and the physical spaces we create in the world. My reasoning 
doesn't always completely overlap with Grant's, but we often reach the same 
conclusion. A twenty-year old could also hold these values and views of the 
world.(True, they would have to be wise for their years...)

James writes: *"... rims, spokes, even hubs are so much better today than 
they were 10 years ago.  Old rim profiles were flexy, old hubs were clunky 
and had slow engagement."*   

No doubt you are right! Please send me all your clunky old 8-10 speed Dura 
Ace and XTR hub sets. I'll spend my lonely nights lacing them  to noodly 
old Open Pros or CR-18s, or some NOS 26" Weinmanns or Mavis or Arayas. Now 
that I'm old I guess it won't bother me so much to wait for them to slowly 
engage...
 

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[James / Analog Cycles]

Always happy to be busy building nice wheels!  It's a good chunk of our 
business, and it's one we love doing.  I've learned so much about building 
wheels in the past 23 years of doing it.  It's nice to be able to bring 
that bear for folks... rims, spokes, even hubs are so much better today 
than they were 10 years ago.  Old rim profiles were flexy, old hubs were 
clunky and had slow engagement.  It's exciting to be able to build light 
strong wheels with low service intervals.  I think if Rivendell was being 
created now, rather than in 1994, Grant would have a very different view on 
tubeless, disc brakes, rim profiles etc.  He goes with what he knows, but 
that would a different knowledge base if he was 30 years old starting the 
company just now... I don't mean to say he's not knowledgeable, because he 
is, but rather, his perspective would be different.  

For example, light(ish) tubeless tires and stiff rims make way more sense 
than big heavy schwalbe tires and heavy, flexy rims, as they both don't get 
flats, but only one has a light feeling, zippy ride quality.  

If you were touring, you could carry TWO spare tubeless tires with the 
weight you'd save by ditching the Schwalbe Marathons.  But you wouldn't 
need to, because softer tires get less flats.  Think about very full vs 
half full water ballons.  Drop em both, which pops?

-James / Analog Cycles in the woods of Vermont

On Sunday, April 12, 2020 at 10:04:37 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> The bottom line for me - which veers off into what *I* like cuz that's how 
> threads travel and I feel like I shouldn't keep guessing/presuming what 
> Leah wants - is Clems are awesome bikes and I think worthy of fancy wheels. 
>
> Which is going to translate to my upcoming custom, another frame I don't 
> expect to be particularly flyweight because I didn't order it that way. I 
> had planned to put basic wheels on and revel in the frame itself, but now 
> (Leah's fault!) I have that jones for the fanciness, too. James is going to 
> be a busy wheelbuilder soon! 
>

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[masmojo]

"Masmojo, I am confused. What is not the case with a Clem?"

Sorry, poor segways maybe.

It's not the case that the Clem was not made to be comfortable,  stable AND 
light weight. 

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I have the red Sport version. The main difference, based on their web site, is 
that it reaches peak voltage at a slightly higher speed. Standard version 
starts creating current at a lower speed. Tradeoff is that the Sport has 
slightly lower drag.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

> On Apr 10, 2020, at 11:05 AM, Clayton Scott  wrote:
> 
> Which model are you using? Sport, treking, etc.
> 
> Thanks,
> Clayton Scott
> HBG, CA
> 
> 
> On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 10:18:44 AM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
> One alternative to a standard donohue setup is an external generator. 
> Velogical, a Germany company, came out a few years ago with a modern 
> interpretation of the old bottle generators used in years past:
> 
> http://www.velogical-engineering.com  
> 
> I’ve been using one for about six months now, and I’m totally sold. I use 
> mine to power two LED headlights and one LED taillight, and it works 
> perfectly. Virtually silent, virtually drag-free … and it works with your 
> current wheels! No need for a new front wheel.
> 
> Cost is less than a top-quality dyno hub (e.g., Schmidt) but far less than 
> the total cost of a new wheel (hub + rim + spokes + wheel building). 
> 
> I watched their YouTube installation video and was able to install mine in 
> less than an hour. As I noted, no problems whatsoever in six months of use.
> 
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com <>
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
> 
>> On Apr 10, 2020, at 9:57 AM, ted > wrote:
>> 
>> I had a similar experience. I was commuting on my simple one with battery 
>> lights and thought that was just fine. I saw a pair of used single speed 
>> wheels with a son hub for sale on the list here and decided to give the 
>> dynamo thing a try. I found I appreciated the set it and forget it nature of 
>> the dynamo system way more than I would ever have guessed. Maybe I'm just 
>> extra lazy but once freed of dealing with batteries I'd not go back. 
>> 
>> On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 9:40:18 AM UTC-7, Dorothy C wrote:
>> Re: dynamos. I got one on my Cheviot as it was the only 650b wheelset Riv 
>> had in at the time, and I have found a big benefit for me is that 1. I don’t 
>> have to remember to turn lights on and off, so they never discharge if 
>> forgotten and 2. when I go grocery shopping and park the bike I don’t have 
>> to detach and reattach the lights to prevent theft. 
>> In fact those were such big plusses, I had the local bike shop rebuild my 
>> Alex rim on my Appaloosa to have a dynamo too
>> 
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>> .
> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Clayton Scott]

Which model are you using? Sport, treking, etc.

Thanks,
Clayton Scott
HBG, CA


On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 10:18:44 AM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> One alternative to a standard donohue setup is an external generator. 
> Velogical, a Germany company, came out a few years ago with a modern 
> interpretation of the old bottle generators used in years past:
>
> http://www.velogical-engineering.com 
>
> I’ve been using one for about six months now, and I’m totally sold. I use 
> mine to power two LED headlights and one LED taillight, and it works 
> perfectly. Virtually silent, virtually drag-free … and it works with your 
> current wheels! No need for a new front wheel.
>
> Cost is less than a top-quality dyno hub (e.g., Schmidt) but far less than 
> the total cost of a new wheel (hub + rim + spokes + wheel building). 
>
> I watched their YouTube installation video and was able to install mine in 
> less than an hour. As I noted, no problems whatsoever in six months of use.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com 
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On Apr 10, 2020, at 9:57 AM, ted > 
> wrote:
>
> I had a similar experience. I was commuting on my simple one with battery 
> lights and thought that was just fine. I saw a pair of used single speed 
> wheels with a son hub for sale on the list here and decided to give the 
> dynamo thing a try. I found I appreciated the set it and forget it nature 
> of the dynamo system way more than I would ever have guessed. Maybe I'm 
> just extra lazy but once freed of dealing with batteries I'd not go back. 
>
> On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 9:40:18 AM UTC-7, Dorothy C wrote:
>>
>> Re: dynamos. I got one on my Cheviot as it was the only 650b wheelset Riv 
>> had in at the time, and I have found a big benefit for me is that 1. I 
>> don’t have to remember to turn lights on and off, so they never discharge 
>> if forgotten and 2. when I go grocery shopping and park the bike I don’t 
>> have to detach and reattach the lights to prevent theft. 
>> In fact those were such big plusses, I had the local bike shop rebuild my 
>> Alex rim on my Appaloosa to have a dynamo too
>
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Joe Bernard]

The bottom line for me - which veers off into what *I* like cuz that's how 
threads travel and I feel like I shouldn't keep guessing/presuming what Leah 
wants - is Clems are awesome bikes and I think worthy of fancy wheels. 

Which is going to translate to my upcoming custom, another frame I don't expect 
to be particularly flyweight because I didn't order it that way. I had planned 
to put basic wheels on and revel in the frame itself, but now (Leah's fault!) I 
have that jones for the fanciness, too. James is going to be a busy 
wheelbuilder soon! 

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[ted]

Masmojo, I am confused. What is not the case with a Clem?

On Sunday, April 12, 2020 at 6:38:59 PM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>
> Ted, you are right both can be achieved (usually at high cost) if that is 
> the goal, that's just not the case with a Clem.

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[masmojo]

Ted, you are right both can be achieved (usually at high cost) if that is the 
goal, that's just not the case with a Clem.

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[ted]

Masmojo wrote:
  "it's designed around being a comfortable, smooth, stable ride &  in that 
context light weight is sort of antithema."

I'm not sure what antihema means but I think the implication is that light 
weight is somehow at odds with a comfortable, smooth, stable ride.
I don't think that is true. Though it may not be hard to build a sub 20lb 
roadeo and it might not be reasonable to aim for a sub 20lb clem L, that 
doesn't mean wanting the lightest clem L one can afford is nonsensical. Put 
another way, wanting a lighter bike doesn't necessarily mean one wants the 
ride and handling of a roadeo.

On Sunday, April 12, 2020 at 5:09:13 PM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>
> Joe, Harsh? Maybe a little bit and maybe not 100% unintentionally.
>  As I said weight reduction on ANY bike is a good thing, but my point is 
> the Clem certainly doesn't seem like it's designed with an eye towards 
> weight saving, it's designed around being a comfortable, smooth, stable 
> ride &  in that context light weight is sort of antithema.
>
> But, as I think about it, I guess it's the same process many of us have 
> gone through over the years played out in real time as we witness people 
> think out loud about their bikes, the evolution of their experiences with 
> them and the mental gymnastics of identifying issues & figuring out how to 
> deal with them. I started riding when I was 6 and had the wrenches out 
> almost immediately thereafter. Working on modifying & riding. So with that 
> vantage point I can almost anticipate where this is all going. In that 
> sense many of us are sort of passengers and sometimes backseat drivers in 
> their journey. Offering the insights of our experience, but ultimately not 
> in control. 
> Sometimes it's a bit like going to a scary movie; you're watching & 
> thinking "oh no! Don't go in the isolated spooky house", but being 
> powerless to influence the outcome. 
>
> I think my natural tendency to be helpful gets stunted by the conduit that 
> is the internet.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[masmojo]

Joe, Harsh? Maybe a little bit and maybe not 100% unintentionally.
 As I said weight reduction on ANY bike is a good thing, but my point is the 
Clem certainly doesn't seem like it's designed with an eye towards weight 
saving, it's designed around being a comfortable, smooth, stable ride &  in 
that context light weight is sort of antithema.

But, as I think about it, I guess it's the same process many of us have gone 
through over the years played out in real time as we witness people think out 
loud about their bikes, the evolution of their experiences with them and the 
mental gymnastics of identifying issues & figuring out how to deal with them. I 
started riding when I was 6 and had the wrenches out almost immediately 
thereafter. Working on modifying & riding. So with that vantage point I can 
almost anticipate where this is all going. In that sense many of us are sort of 
passengers and sometimes backseat drivers in their journey. Offering the 
insights of our experience, but ultimately not in control. 
Sometimes it's a bit like going to a scary movie; you're watching & thinking 
"oh no! Don't go in the isolated spooky house", but being powerless to 
influence the outcome. 

I think my natural tendency to be helpful gets stunted by the conduit that is 
the internet.

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[ted]

Hey Roberta,

As you wrote "It's a trade off between utility and weight, I know." you've 
clearly got a good handle on this thing.
Years ago (when they stocked toe clips) I went by RBW to pick between 
regular and long soma dual gate toe clips. As I was eyeing the two 
alternatives the guy commented that they were "not light". I opined that if 
I was gonna worry about weight I'd start by trying not to stuff so much 
into my country bag (this was back in the baggins bags days). That drew a 
large grin and talk morphed into what a great bag that was (and still is 
for that matter).

BTW the banana bag is really nice. I've got one on the front of my least 
"go fast" ish drop bar bike, and I'm really liking that set up.

I'm confident you'll have a fine time finding the perfect weight/utility 
balance for you. It's always a personal optimum. Don't let anyone else tell 
you you are wrong.
Next up, the search for just the perfect gearing/drive train (yet another 
rabbit hole).


On Sunday, April 12, 2020 at 3:28:43 PM UTC-7, Roberta wrote:
>
> On Sunday, April 12, 2020 at 12:42:07 PM UTC-4, ted wrote: 
> > For true weight weeniedom you need to get out a kitchen scale and weigh 
> the bag and saddles. I suspect leaving off the bag saves more weight than 
> swapping to a no spring saddle. 
>
> Hi, Ted. 
>
> According to website, he saddle saves 3/4 pound and the bag saves 1 1/4 
> pound.  What's *inside* the bag probably saved another 2 pounds.   My big 
> bags are like junk drawers, having things in there , well, just because... 
> and there's room... The real reason I got a bigger bag was to put 
> everything in one bag, including topeak road morph G pump, which is quite 
> long.  I'll put that on my two fish pump holder or lash it to the rack   
>
> I got the bigger bag also in case I wanted to go on a long ride and wanted 
> to pack a lunch (a few times), bring a blanket (never), have room to place 
> my shredded layers (often) when the sun came out.  Reality is that I can 
> lash all that to my rack, being careful not to squish my sandwich. I'll be 
> ok with a smaller bag  which won't be like a junk drawer, and you'll see at 
> least one carradice bag FS or trade shortly.  I'm thinking about getting a 
> banana sack. 
>
> It's a trade off between utility and weight, I know.  I love the way my 
> Joe A. rides and Leah loves her Clem L.  We're both looking for a practical 
> medium.  It all started with getting better tires for a better ride. Then, 
> dynamo with new wheels. And then it morphed! 
>
> I have been loving these threads and everyone's posts.  I have learned so 
> much!  Thank you.

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Roberta]

On Sunday, April 12, 2020 at 12:42:07 PM UTC-4, ted wrote:
> For true weight weeniedom you need to get out a kitchen scale and weigh the 
> bag and saddles. I suspect leaving off the bag saves more weight than 
> swapping to a no spring saddle.

Hi, Ted.

According to website, he saddle saves 3/4 pound and the bag saves 1 1/4 pound.  
What's *inside* the bag probably saved another 2 pounds.   My big bags are 
like junk drawers, having things in there , well, just because... and there's 
room... The real reason I got a bigger bag was to put everything in one bag, 
including topeak road morph G pump, which is quite long.  I'll put that on my 
two fish pump holder or lash it to the rack  

I got the bigger bag also in case I wanted to go on a long ride and wanted to 
pack a lunch (a few times), bring a blanket (never), have room to place my 
shredded layers (often) when the sun came out.  Reality is that I can lash all 
that to my rack, being careful not to squish my sandwich. I'll be ok with a 
smaller bag  which won't be like a junk drawer, and you'll see at least one 
carradice bag FS or trade shortly.  I'm thinking about getting a banana sack.

It's a trade off between utility and weight, I know.  I love the way my Joe A. 
rides and Leah loves her Clem L.  We're both looking for a practical medium.  
It all started with getting better tires for a better ride. Then, dynamo with 
new wheels. And then it morphed!

I have been loving these threads and everyone's posts.  I have learned so much! 
 Thank you.

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Joe Bernard]

"I applaud your efforts, but it's a bit like buying a chunk of lead & 
complaining that it weighs too much."

I doubt you intended it, but that seems a little harsh. Nobody is trying to 
make an ultralight Clem (and she *is* getting a different bike later), Leah's 
just looking to improve a bike she already likes as is. 

As I've said elsewhere in this thread I agree a Clem L isn't a good candidate 
for the full gram reduction program - it's always going to be a stout frame way 
overbuilt for her - but lighter/fancy wheels and tires go the longest way 
towards reducing perceived weight and effort on a killer hill. Plus it's going 
to look awesome! I think she's making a good choice here that she will enjoy, 
and we'll love looking at all the pics. I can't wait to see it!  

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[ted]

For true weight weeniedom you need to get out a kitchen scale and weigh the bag 
and saddles. I suspect leaving off the bag saves more weight than swapping to a 
no spring saddle.

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[REC]

Yes, I swapped my saddle and removed my Carradice Junior bag. It was still 
heavy but so much better. 


Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 12, 2020, at 11:03 AM, Leah Peterson  wrote:
> 

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Leah Peterson]

Lightening our Rivendells...it’s what #RivSisters are doing this year. Yes, 
Annie, I think you’re going to be so pleased, even with a little weight 
savings. Roberta switched out her saddle yesterday from sprung to not sprung 
and was amazed just at how great a difference that made.

I never thought I’d see a thread on the List about counting grams, but here we 
are. 

Annie, I know you don’t have the sparkles in your blue but was there ever a 
creamier, lovelier blue? I think not. Please let us know when you make your 
changes and how it turns out for you!
Leah

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 12, 2020, at 6:42 AM, anniebikes  wrote:
> 
> Leah, I've always thought the stock Clem L is a bit weighty. Mine is the 
> 2016 version so I think it's the shorter version (though not the prettier 
> sparkly blue color like yours). But still it's heavier than I want it to be. 
> Sure, it climbs well, can haul weight, and is super on dirt roads. This year 
> I'm concentrating on lightening my bike by namely swapping tires and tubes. 
> After reading others tires suggestions here, I'm going with my favorite 
> Panacer Pasela PT  tire. Not only does the gumwall version visually appear 
> less hefty but 1.75" width is slightly narrower than 2" , also coming in at 
> 480-500gr like the thunder burts. I will also swap the Bosco bar for 
> something else just because I need something less upright with various hand 
> positions with less rise - not sure this switch will shave any weight. 
> Enjoying all the suggestions.
> 
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[RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[anniebikes]

Leah, I've always thought the stock Clem L is a bit weighty. Mine is the 2016 
version so I think it's the shorter version (though not the prettier sparkly 
blue color like yours). But still it's heavier than I want it to be. Sure, it 
climbs well, can haul weight, and is super on dirt roads. This year I'm 
concentrating on lightening my bike by namely swapping tires and tubes. After 
reading others tires suggestions here, I'm going with my favorite Panacer 
Pasela PT  tire. Not only does the gumwall version visually appear less hefty 
but 1.75" width is slightly narrower than 2" , also coming in at 480-500gr like 
the thunder burts. I will also swap the Bosco bar for something else just 
because I need something less upright with various hand positions with less 
rise - not sure this switch will shave any weight. Enjoying all the suggestions.

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Joe Bernard]

"And red spoke nipples too."

Absolutely! 

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[ted]

And red spoke nipples too

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Joe Bernard]

"Leah, you seem to be getting all the cool mods on your bike. I'm a lil 
envious.  Who knew bikes could be so customized?"

Right?? I suspect her example is about to make the build on my 
soon-to-be-here-hopefully custom MUCH more expensive. I have a basic silver 
wheelset planned for it and here's how that's going to go: "Wow, Leah's wheels 
from James with all the colors sure are pretty. My gray w/red frame needs red 
hubs!" 

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[DHans]

I love that video, it's so funny. I'm guessing you could entertain yourself 
well as a child. I had one of each, my younger son would play and become 
his toys...loved hearing him voice his action figures. My older son would 
look at me like, what are we doing next? Ha

I have rarely ridden at night but I think it would be so cool!! I'm getting 
dyno-fever.
Doug

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 2:00:52 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Doug, who would have guessed? I’m a fairly conservative spender; I don’t 
> color my hair or get my nails done or spend time at the spa (but I will 
> spend good money on great shoes). I have historically made only small, 
> inexpensive changes on my bikes. Big ticket items for me would be Nitto 
> racks. I’ve always ridden stock wheels and with the exception of my Big 
> Bens, I’ve always ridden stock tires. My Rivendells were such a noticeable 
> improvement from Walmart that I was sublimely happy. What would I possibly 
> change?
>
> But, the more you learn the more aware you become of options. You discover 
> you have *preferences.* You develop wish lists. 
>
> I have long wanted dyno. I started riding at night this year and found 
> that it really, really did something for me. I would listen to music and I 
> would sing. On my bike. Who knows who heard? There is likely a Nextdoor 
> thread wondering about my state of mind somewhere. I don’t care. All the 
> things I hadn’t made time to process or feelings I didn’t let myself feel 
> would be processed on those night rides. Sometimes my sense of humor would 
> come alive and I would make goofy videos and set them to music (you’ve seen 
> them on Instagram). I came to really depend on those rides. 
>
> But I had these battery lights. The rechargeable Cygolite is just the 
> worst. It would start flickering, threatening to die on me after only 45 
> minutes of use. I hate it. Plus, it’s taking up real estate on my already 
> crowded bars. I will say my rack light that is battery operated is ok, but 
> it’s cheap plastic and I’m pretty sure if I bump it into anything it’s 
> going to shatter. Well, the thrill of those night rides was being impeded 
> by the fear of running out of battery and being stranded without light. Not 
> the end of the world on my well-lit MUP up Killer Hill but a total deal 
> breaker for when I’m in the bike lane on the street.
>
> I will never worry about running out of light again. And that’s really 
> something.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[ted]

Son wide flange? Wide flange -> shorter axel stubs-> better aesthetics.

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[DHans]

Leah, you seem to be getting all the cool mods on your bike. I'm a lil 
envious.  Who knew bikes could be so customized? 
Doug 

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 1:27:54 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Ooh, dynamo. I forgot to add that I got that with my wheel set, too! New 
> wheels new lights who dis?!?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 10, 2020, at 10:21 AM, DHans > 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Wow, that is way cool, Eric. German engineering is so good and innovative,
> Doug
>
> On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 1:18:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Norris wrote:
>>
>> One alternative to a standard donohue setup is an external generator. 
>> Velogical, a Germany company, came out a few years ago with a modern 
>> interpretation of the old bottle generators used in years past:
>>
>> http://www.velogical-engineering.com 
>>
>> I’ve been using one for about six months now, and I’m totally sold. I use 
>> mine to power two LED headlights and one LED taillight, and it works 
>> perfectly. Virtually silent, virtually drag-free … and it works with your 
>> current wheels! No need for a new front wheel.
>>
>> Cost is less than a top-quality dyno hub (e.g., Schmidt) but far less 
>> than the total cost of a new wheel (hub + rim + spokes + wheel building). 
>>
>> I watched their YouTube installation video and was able to install mine 
>> in less than an hour. As I noted, no problems whatsoever in six months of 
>> use.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>>
>> On Apr 10, 2020, at 9:57 AM, ted  wrote:
>>
>> I had a similar experience. I was commuting on my simple one with battery 
>> lights and thought that was just fine. I saw a pair of used single speed 
>> wheels with a son hub for sale on the list here and decided to give the 
>> dynamo thing a try. I found I appreciated the set it and forget it nature 
>> of the dynamo system way more than I would ever have guessed. Maybe I'm 
>> just extra lazy but once freed of dealing with batteries I'd not go back. 
>>
>> On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 9:40:18 AM UTC-7, Dorothy C wrote:
>>>
>>> Re: dynamos. I got one on my Cheviot as it was the only 650b wheelset 
>>> Riv had in at the time, and I have found a big benefit for me is that 1. I 
>>> don’t have to remember to turn lights on and off, so they never discharge 
>>> if forgotten and 2. when I go grocery shopping and park the bike I don’t 
>>> have to detach and reattach the lights to prevent theft. 
>>> In fact those were such big plusses, I had the local bike shop rebuild 
>>> my Alex rim on my Appaloosa to have a dynamo too
>>
>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/eb4254af-0665-4a3b-9872-ae55f9ad8307%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Leah Peterson]

Ooh, dynamo. I forgot to add that I got that with my wheel set, too! New wheels 
new lights who dis?!?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 10, 2020, at 10:21 AM, DHans  wrote:
> 
> 
> Wow, that is way cool, Eric. German engineering is so good and innovative,
> Doug
> 
>> On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 1:18:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Norris wrote:
>> One alternative to a standard donohue setup is an external generator. 
>> Velogical, a Germany company, came out a few years ago with a modern 
>> interpretation of the old bottle generators used in years past:
>> 
>> http://www.velogical-engineering.com 
>> 
>> I’ve been using one for about six months now, and I’m totally sold. I use 
>> mine to power two LED headlights and one LED taillight, and it works 
>> perfectly. Virtually silent, virtually drag-free … and it works with your 
>> current wheels! No need for a new front wheel.
>> 
>> Cost is less than a top-quality dyno hub (e.g., Schmidt) but far less than 
>> the total cost of a new wheel (hub + rim + spokes + wheel building). 
>> 
>> I watched their YouTube installation video and was able to install mine in 
>> less than an hour. As I noted, no problems whatsoever in six months of use.
>> 
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>> 
>>> On Apr 10, 2020, at 9:57 AM, ted  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I had a similar experience. I was commuting on my simple one with battery 
>>> lights and thought that was just fine. I saw a pair of used single speed 
>>> wheels with a son hub for sale on the list here and decided to give the 
>>> dynamo thing a try. I found I appreciated the set it and forget it nature 
>>> of the dynamo system way more than I would ever have guessed. Maybe I'm 
>>> just extra lazy but once freed of dealing with batteries I'd not go back. 
>>> 
 On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 9:40:18 AM UTC-7, Dorothy C wrote:
 Re: dynamos. I got one on my Cheviot as it was the only 650b wheelset Riv 
 had in at the time, and I have found a big benefit for me is that 1. I 
 don’t have to remember to turn lights on and off, so they never discharge 
 if forgotten and 2. when I go grocery shopping and park the bike I don’t 
 have to detach and reattach the lights to prevent theft. 
 In fact those were such big plusses, I had the local bike shop rebuild my 
 Alex rim on my Appaloosa to have a dynamo too
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/eb4254af-0665-4a3b-9872-ae55f9ad8307%40googlegroups.com.
>> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[DHans]

Wow, that is way cool, Eric. German engineering is so good and innovative,
Doug

On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 1:18:44 PM UTC-4, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> One alternative to a standard donohue setup is an external generator. 
> Velogical, a Germany company, came out a few years ago with a modern 
> interpretation of the old bottle generators used in years past:
>
> http://www.velogical-engineering.com 
>
> I’ve been using one for about six months now, and I’m totally sold. I use 
> mine to power two LED headlights and one LED taillight, and it works 
> perfectly. Virtually silent, virtually drag-free … and it works with your 
> current wheels! No need for a new front wheel.
>
> Cost is less than a top-quality dyno hub (e.g., Schmidt) but far less than 
> the total cost of a new wheel (hub + rim + spokes + wheel building). 
>
> I watched their YouTube installation video and was able to install mine in 
> less than an hour. As I noted, no problems whatsoever in six months of use.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com 
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On Apr 10, 2020, at 9:57 AM, ted > 
> wrote:
>
> I had a similar experience. I was commuting on my simple one with battery 
> lights and thought that was just fine. I saw a pair of used single speed 
> wheels with a son hub for sale on the list here and decided to give the 
> dynamo thing a try. I found I appreciated the set it and forget it nature 
> of the dynamo system way more than I would ever have guessed. Maybe I'm 
> just extra lazy but once freed of dealing with batteries I'd not go back. 
>
> On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 9:40:18 AM UTC-7, Dorothy C wrote:
>>
>> Re: dynamos. I got one on my Cheviot as it was the only 650b wheelset Riv 
>> had in at the time, and I have found a big benefit for me is that 1. I 
>> don’t have to remember to turn lights on and off, so they never discharge 
>> if forgotten and 2. when I go grocery shopping and park the bike I don’t 
>> have to detach and reattach the lights to prevent theft. 
>> In fact those were such big plusses, I had the local bike shop rebuild my 
>> Alex rim on my Appaloosa to have a dynamo too
>
>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

One alternative to a standard donohue setup is an external generator. 
Velogical, a Germany company, came out a few years ago with a modern 
interpretation of the old bottle generators used in years past:

http://www.velogical-engineering.com 

I’ve been using one for about six months now, and I’m totally sold. I use mine 
to power two LED headlights and one LED taillight, and it works perfectly. 
Virtually silent, virtually drag-free … and it works with your current wheels! 
No need for a new front wheel.

Cost is less than a top-quality dyno hub (e.g., Schmidt) but far less than the 
total cost of a new wheel (hub + rim + spokes + wheel building). 

I watched their YouTube installation video and was able to install mine in less 
than an hour. As I noted, no problems whatsoever in six months of use.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On Apr 10, 2020, at 9:57 AM, ted  wrote:
> 
> I had a similar experience. I was commuting on my simple one with battery 
> lights and thought that was just fine. I saw a pair of used single speed 
> wheels with a son hub for sale on the list here and decided to give the 
> dynamo thing a try. I found I appreciated the set it and forget it nature of 
> the dynamo system way more than I would ever have guessed. Maybe I'm just 
> extra lazy but once freed of dealing with batteries I'd not go back. 
> 
> On Friday, April 10, 2020 at 9:40:18 AM UTC-7, Dorothy C wrote:
> Re: dynamos. I got one on my Cheviot as it was the only 650b wheelset Riv had 
> in at the time, and I have found a big benefit for me is that 1. I don’t have 
> to remember to turn lights on and off, so they never discharge if forgotten 
> and 2. when I go grocery shopping and park the bike I don’t have to detach 
> and reattach the lights to prevent theft. 
> In fact those were such big plusses, I had the local bike shop rebuild my 
> Alex rim on my Appaloosa to have a dynamo too
> 
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>  
> .

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Joe Bernard]

I'm pro Cheviot. Great name, great sheep. I liked Saluki, too. 

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Re: [RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Leah Peterson]

When I took my bikes in for service at REI the mechanics would always ask, 
“Well, why is this one a Clem Smith Jr and this one a Clementine? What’s the 
difference?” Oh, the naming thing was just so hard.

I was never fond of “Betty Foy”, either. But I loved the color scheme. I think 
they did a good job with Cheviot. Cheviot is great.

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 8, 2020, at 1:52 PM, in Dallas nick  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Way to go Leah!
> 
> A friend and I can't stop laughing at your remarks
> 
> 
> We are both big Riv fans as well but that is a strange name in my view.
> 
> Put in the situation of reporting it stolen might cause the policeman to want 
> to do a breathalyzer test on the one reporting.
> 
> Laughter is good medicine,
> Paul in Dallas 
> 
> 
> 
> "Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
> Well, whatever you think of the gendered bike names, I feel really sorry for 
> the person who has to report their bike missing/stolen one day and tell the 
> police it’s a Wolbis Slugstone."
> 
> 
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[RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[in Dallas nick]

Way to go Leah!
A friend and I can't stop laughing at your remarks

We are both big Riv fans as well but that is a strange name in my view.
Put in the situation of reporting it stolen might cause the policeman to want 
to do a breathalyzer test on the one reporting.
Laughter is good medicine,Paul in Dallas 


"Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!Well, whatever you think of the gendered bike names, I 
feel really sorry for the person who has to report their bike missing/stolen 
one day and tell the police it’s a Wolbis Slugstone."

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[RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[J Imler]

I decided to use the lightest rear rack (aluminum old school Trek USA) in my 
rack collection during my quarantine Clem build. The build began as a Boeshield 
frame spray so I really got a feel for the weight of the frame. Mines a 59, so 
large. I’m sticking to only one rack, no fenders. Utility trail bike is what 
I’m going for.

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[RBW] Lighten Up: Clem Edition

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble because we 
talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each other’s ideas 
and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire.

So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with light 
parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile, Roberta is 
giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots of new parts and 
she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and I’m like that little 
sister who wants what her sister has, I want to explore what it would take to 
lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike at present, and which is quite 
heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If 
my Clem could lose a little weight it would be the most perfect bike anyone 
could dream up. A Susie version of Clems would be just so ideal - someone 
should tell Riv.

Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what kind, 
how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably lighter? I don’t 
think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it for Killer Hill. And 
what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would that negate my weight 
savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part with those. Maybe I’m not the 
best candidate for this...

Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big difference? 
As in, is it worth the money? 

Thanks!
Leah

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