[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Ryan Fleming]

Glad to hear it...kind of assumed you did...I'd hate to see  it ripped off. 

On Monday, February 6, 2017 at 10:55:09 AM UTC-6, panog wrote:
>
> @Ryan F.
>
> Yes, fortunate to have a very secure place to keep the bike at work. No 
> bike lock needed. 
>
> On Monday, February 6, 2017 at 11:01:26 AM UTC-5, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>>
>> Wow that is some build ..can't wait to see it. Obviously you have a very 
>> secure place at work to house such a treasure
>>
>> On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 9:03:11 PM UTC-6, panog wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you all for your kind words! Mark sent me a few pics yesterday and 
>>> although I have not seen the bike in person yet, it looks from the pics 
>>> well balanced and every bit how I envisioned it.
>>>
>>> The bike has been in the making for about 18 months now; the first six 
>>> in my mind, trying to justify the "one more bike?" thing and the remaining 
>>> twelve in the making. An untold number of emails with Grant and Mark has 
>>> taken place during the design phase to crystallize the direction the design 
>>> was to follow. Grant, to his credit, often mentioned the similarities with 
>>> the AHH  but to me a Grant custom design, brazed by Nobillette and painted 
>>> by Joe Bell is the "perfect storm" I wanted to get caught in. Mark Abele 
>>> has been and continues to be extremely helpful, instrumental and patient 
>>> with my never ending avalanche of questions working out all the details. 
>>> Dealing with Joe Bell has been exemplary. His attention to detail goes 
>>> beyond paint lines. The fellow simply cares too much for what he does. The 
>>> first time the phone rung at 10:00pm EST I was surprised; the third time I 
>>> had gotten used to it. This journey has been a wonderful experience and was 
>>> as important to me as arriving at the destination.
>>>
>>> Frame stats:
>>> Size 62.8
>>> Seat angle 72, head angle 72
>>> Rake 50mm
>>> HT length 206.1mm
>>> TT eff 61.6cm
>>> TT upslope 2.5 deg
>>> CS length 47cm
>>> BB drop 80mm
>>> 700c, 135mm OLD, clearance for 42mm tires plus fenders
>>>
>>> Paint:
>>> Richard Sachs 2013 Saffron with HOK DP-18 Cinnamon Pearl
>>>
>>> Build:
>>> DA 9-speed bar ends
>>> TA Specialities Carmina 110/74 46/36/26
>>> Phil BB
>>> XT front and rear deraileurs, long cage rear
>>> 11-32 XT 
>>> Origin 8 Classique sport road brake levers
>>> Paul's braze-on Racers
>>> CK headset
>>> Nitto NP stem
>>> Nitto S83 seat post
>>> Brooks B17 select (1st time trying this, if not agreeable then the 
>>> Berthoud Aspin goes back on)
>>> Albastache (1st time on these as well, if not agreeable then back to 
>>> drops)
>>> Schmidt Son28 dyno hub with Edelux II
>>>
>>> I build my own wheels and the set chosen for the bike uses H+Son TB14 
>>> polished 36h rims laced on WI MI5 hub with 14/15/14 ga Sapim Race spokes 
>>> arranged 3x for the rear. Front is also 36h due to the narrower flange 
>>> offset of the Son28. I normally use brass nipples but for this set I went 
>>> with the Sapim orange Polyax to carry over the frame color.
>>>
>>> Tires are the Compass 700cx35, tubed. These are the tires expected to be 
>>> on most of the time with a possible move-up to 38's for dirt trails. The 
>>> bike is set for up to 42's with fenders.
>>>
>>> Fenders will be the VO 50mm Snakeskin. I had to arm wrestle with Grant 
>>> on this; he does not know about the metal fenders yet unless Mark spilled 
>>> the beans so don't tell him!. I'll put these on myself when I get the bike 
>>> because I have the wheels waiting here.
>>>
>>> The bike will start its tenure as my daily commuter (thus the 
>>> Albastache) and then we will go from there.
>>>
>>> Excuse the very long post and thank you again for your kind words.
>>>
>>> Pano
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 6:17:26 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:

 Of all the Riv customs I've ever seen, the one shown on the BLUG today 
 is the one I would be most likely to copy.  

 WANT!

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

>>>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[panog]

@Ryan F.

Yes, fortunate to have a very secure place to keep the bike at work. No 
bike lock needed. 

On Monday, February 6, 2017 at 11:01:26 AM UTC-5, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>
> Wow that is some build ..can't wait to see it. Obviously you have a very 
> secure place at work to house such a treasure
>
> On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 9:03:11 PM UTC-6, panog wrote:
>>
>> Thank you all for your kind words! Mark sent me a few pics yesterday and 
>> although I have not seen the bike in person yet, it looks from the pics 
>> well balanced and every bit how I envisioned it.
>>
>> The bike has been in the making for about 18 months now; the first six in 
>> my mind, trying to justify the "one more bike?" thing and the remaining 
>> twelve in the making. An untold number of emails with Grant and Mark has 
>> taken place during the design phase to crystallize the direction the design 
>> was to follow. Grant, to his credit, often mentioned the similarities with 
>> the AHH  but to me a Grant custom design, brazed by Nobillette and painted 
>> by Joe Bell is the "perfect storm" I wanted to get caught in. Mark Abele 
>> has been and continues to be extremely helpful, instrumental and patient 
>> with my never ending avalanche of questions working out all the details. 
>> Dealing with Joe Bell has been exemplary. His attention to detail goes 
>> beyond paint lines. The fellow simply cares too much for what he does. The 
>> first time the phone rung at 10:00pm EST I was surprised; the third time I 
>> had gotten used to it. This journey has been a wonderful experience and was 
>> as important to me as arriving at the destination.
>>
>> Frame stats:
>> Size 62.8
>> Seat angle 72, head angle 72
>> Rake 50mm
>> HT length 206.1mm
>> TT eff 61.6cm
>> TT upslope 2.5 deg
>> CS length 47cm
>> BB drop 80mm
>> 700c, 135mm OLD, clearance for 42mm tires plus fenders
>>
>> Paint:
>> Richard Sachs 2013 Saffron with HOK DP-18 Cinnamon Pearl
>>
>> Build:
>> DA 9-speed bar ends
>> TA Specialities Carmina 110/74 46/36/26
>> Phil BB
>> XT front and rear deraileurs, long cage rear
>> 11-32 XT 
>> Origin 8 Classique sport road brake levers
>> Paul's braze-on Racers
>> CK headset
>> Nitto NP stem
>> Nitto S83 seat post
>> Brooks B17 select (1st time trying this, if not agreeable then the 
>> Berthoud Aspin goes back on)
>> Albastache (1st time on these as well, if not agreeable then back to 
>> drops)
>> Schmidt Son28 dyno hub with Edelux II
>>
>> I build my own wheels and the set chosen for the bike uses H+Son TB14 
>> polished 36h rims laced on WI MI5 hub with 14/15/14 ga Sapim Race spokes 
>> arranged 3x for the rear. Front is also 36h due to the narrower flange 
>> offset of the Son28. I normally use brass nipples but for this set I went 
>> with the Sapim orange Polyax to carry over the frame color.
>>
>> Tires are the Compass 700cx35, tubed. These are the tires expected to be 
>> on most of the time with a possible move-up to 38's for dirt trails. The 
>> bike is set for up to 42's with fenders.
>>
>> Fenders will be the VO 50mm Snakeskin. I had to arm wrestle with Grant on 
>> this; he does not know about the metal fenders yet unless Mark spilled the 
>> beans so don't tell him!. I'll put these on myself when I get the bike 
>> because I have the wheels waiting here.
>>
>> The bike will start its tenure as my daily commuter (thus the Albastache) 
>> and then we will go from there.
>>
>> Excuse the very long post and thank you again for your kind words.
>>
>> Pano
>>
>>
>> On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 6:17:26 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> Of all the Riv customs I've ever seen, the one shown on the BLUG today 
>>> is the one I would be most likely to copy.  
>>>
>>> WANT!
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Ryan Fleming]

Wow that is some build ..can't wait to see it. Obviously you have a very 
secure place at work to house such a treasure

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 9:03:11 PM UTC-6, panog wrote:
>
> Thank you all for your kind words! Mark sent me a few pics yesterday and 
> although I have not seen the bike in person yet, it looks from the pics 
> well balanced and every bit how I envisioned it.
>
> The bike has been in the making for about 18 months now; the first six in 
> my mind, trying to justify the "one more bike?" thing and the remaining 
> twelve in the making. An untold number of emails with Grant and Mark has 
> taken place during the design phase to crystallize the direction the design 
> was to follow. Grant, to his credit, often mentioned the similarities with 
> the AHH  but to me a Grant custom design, brazed by Nobillette and painted 
> by Joe Bell is the "perfect storm" I wanted to get caught in. Mark Abele 
> has been and continues to be extremely helpful, instrumental and patient 
> with my never ending avalanche of questions working out all the details. 
> Dealing with Joe Bell has been exemplary. His attention to detail goes 
> beyond paint lines. The fellow simply cares too much for what he does. The 
> first time the phone rung at 10:00pm EST I was surprised; the third time I 
> had gotten used to it. This journey has been a wonderful experience and was 
> as important to me as arriving at the destination.
>
> Frame stats:
> Size 62.8
> Seat angle 72, head angle 72
> Rake 50mm
> HT length 206.1mm
> TT eff 61.6cm
> TT upslope 2.5 deg
> CS length 47cm
> BB drop 80mm
> 700c, 135mm OLD, clearance for 42mm tires plus fenders
>
> Paint:
> Richard Sachs 2013 Saffron with HOK DP-18 Cinnamon Pearl
>
> Build:
> DA 9-speed bar ends
> TA Specialities Carmina 110/74 46/36/26
> Phil BB
> XT front and rear deraileurs, long cage rear
> 11-32 XT 
> Origin 8 Classique sport road brake levers
> Paul's braze-on Racers
> CK headset
> Nitto NP stem
> Nitto S83 seat post
> Brooks B17 select (1st time trying this, if not agreeable then the 
> Berthoud Aspin goes back on)
> Albastache (1st time on these as well, if not agreeable then back to drops)
> Schmidt Son28 dyno hub with Edelux II
>
> I build my own wheels and the set chosen for the bike uses H+Son TB14 
> polished 36h rims laced on WI MI5 hub with 14/15/14 ga Sapim Race spokes 
> arranged 3x for the rear. Front is also 36h due to the narrower flange 
> offset of the Son28. I normally use brass nipples but for this set I went 
> with the Sapim orange Polyax to carry over the frame color.
>
> Tires are the Compass 700cx35, tubed. These are the tires expected to be 
> on most of the time with a possible move-up to 38's for dirt trails. The 
> bike is set for up to 42's with fenders.
>
> Fenders will be the VO 50mm Snakeskin. I had to arm wrestle with Grant on 
> this; he does not know about the metal fenders yet unless Mark spilled the 
> beans so don't tell him!. I'll put these on myself when I get the bike 
> because I have the wheels waiting here.
>
> The bike will start its tenure as my daily commuter (thus the Albastache) 
> and then we will go from there.
>
> Excuse the very long post and thank you again for your kind words.
>
> Pano
>
>
> On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 6:17:26 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Of all the Riv customs I've ever seen, the one shown on the BLUG today is 
>> the one I would be most likely to copy.  
>>
>> WANT!
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[panog]

Thanks Patrick. I'll convey the message.

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Re: [RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Patrick Moore]

I generally don't expend a lot of mental sweat on frame color, which is
good since I'm somewhat color blind, but generally I don't care for orange
(sorry Eddy). But I have to say that your wife's choice is pretty darned
nice; it certainly would tempt me away from my current fave of sage green
with cream.

On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 4:49 PM, panog  wrote:

>
>
> The last few days I have received a lot of compliments about the color
> chosen; started with Joe, then Mark and went on and on. I must admit that
> choosing the color proved for me to be the hardest part of putting the bike
> together. I had all the bike features and mechanical bits figured out by
> the time I filled out the RBW order forms. Color was a different story
> though. I knew I wanted an orangish theme; something within the spectrum of
> orange and burnt orange, with a bit of subdued sparkle but not too much.
> Maybe pearl, maybe a small flake metallic. Lighter rather than darker shade
> to better bring the lug details out. Trying to pick from the web published
> paint charts, including the one Joe had on his website, soon proved to be
> inaccurate at best.
>
> Discussing this dilemma with Joe it was mutually decided that the best way
> to deal with this was to have actual samples painted. So I explained to him
> the shade variations I was looking for and off we went with the
> understanding he could adjust the mix as he saw fit.
>
> A week or so later I receive a package from Joe with the four samples
> painted on tube segments. Now another problem surfaces. I like them all!
> Some have more orange, some more brown, one is metallic, two are pearl.
> They all looked very sharp and showed their unique idiosyncrasies whether
> under direct sunlight or not.
>
> I wrestled with it for a few days, still undecided, and then I did what I
> assume most males would do and asked advice from a higher authority. In my
> household, the utmost authority on color selection is my wife; partly due
> to her professional training, partly due to her good taste. She looked at
> the samples for a few minutes and then she picked the one! All of my "what
> ifs" and "what abouts" fell on deaf ears! I waited a few days and then
> challenged her again on her selection, just to make sure! She was adamant
> about it and she knows very very very well how anal I become with my bikes.
> Judging from the responses I receive, it seems she chose right.
>
> Just giving credit where credit is due!
>
> --
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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[panog]

The last few days I have received a lot of compliments about the color 
chosen; started with Joe, then Mark and went on and on. I must admit that 
choosing the color proved for me to be the hardest part of putting the bike 
together. I had all the bike features and mechanical bits figured out by 
the time I filled out the RBW order forms. Color was a different story 
though. I knew I wanted an orangish theme; something within the spectrum of 
orange and burnt orange, with a bit of subdued sparkle but not too much. 
Maybe pearl, maybe a small flake metallic. Lighter rather than darker shade 
to better bring the lug details out. Trying to pick from the web published 
paint charts, including the one Joe had on his website, soon proved to be 
inaccurate at best.

Discussing this dilemma with Joe it was mutually decided that the best way 
to deal with this was to have actual samples painted. So I explained to him 
the shade variations I was looking for and off we went with the 
understanding he could adjust the mix as he saw fit. 

A week or so later I receive a package from Joe with the four samples 
painted on tube segments. Now another problem surfaces. I like them all! 
Some have more orange, some more brown, one is metallic, two are pearl. 
They all looked very sharp and showed their unique idiosyncrasies whether 
under direct sunlight or not. 

I wrestled with it for a few days, still undecided, and then I did what I 
assume most males would do and asked advice from a higher authority. In my 
household, the utmost authority on color selection is my wife; partly due 
to her professional training, partly due to her good taste. She looked at 
the samples for a few minutes and then she picked the one! All of my "what 
ifs" and "what abouts" fell on deaf ears! I waited a few days and then 
challenged her again on her selection, just to make sure! She was adamant 
about it and she knows very very very well how anal I become with my bikes. 
Judging from the responses I receive, it seems she chose right.

Just giving credit where credit is due!  

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[panog]

George,

As Keith mentioned, SH is the Saddle Height measured from the center of the 
bottom bracket to the top of the saddle. The standover height measured from the 
floor to the top of the top tube at around the middle of its span is 89.05cm 
with 42mm tires. My PBH of 91.5cm + shoes (2 cm) equates to an adjusted PBH of 
93.5 and a clearance of 4 cm.

Take care of that cold!

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Re: [RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Patrick Moore]

My '99 Joe and '3 Curt both have the same 44.5 cm stays. That length
certainly doesn't slow handling! (The bike is a very weirdly perfect
combination of quick turn-in and stable straight line movement.)

On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 12:41 AM,  wrote:

> My custom Riv from 1999 – JB paint in dark metallic cinnamon still better
> looking – has 44,5 cm chainstays. At that time Grant complained that he
> couldn´t get his hands on longer ones so his thought were probably already
> in that direction.
>
> Rides very, very nice though, also with the „short“ stays.
>
>
>
> Olof Stroh
>
> Uppsala Sweden
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[George Schick]

Ahh, thanks.  I feel better now.  We have so many acronyms and 
abbreviations in this industry/blog that it's sometimes easy to get them 
confused.  Maybe I'll sleep better tonight...then again, maybe not since 
I'm fighting a case of this flu that's been going around.

On Sunday, February 5, 2017 at 11:32:00 AM UTC-6, Keith Muller wrote:
>
> George,
>
> By SH he means Saddle Height relative to the BB.
>
> Keith
>
>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Keith Muller]

George,

By SH he means Saddle Height relative to the BB.

Keith

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[George Schick]

I frequently have difficult sleeping all night; I wake up and then all 
kinds of issues and problems of the day/week/era begin racing through my 
mind and some of them bother me to the point where I can't get back to 
sleep.  Last night was no exception after having read through the threads 
on this post yesterday.  So I got up to re-read this blog post.

Here's the bothersome issue:  You say that the frame is a 62.8 measured at 
the middle of the top tube, since it has a 2.5° upslope.  Then you go on to 
mention in the response below that your "SH" (I assume you mean stand over 
height) is 80.5cm.  Grant, in his Blug post says the frame has the 
"functionality" of a Homer [Hilsen].  If I look at a Hilsen geometry chart 
I see an approximate SOH of 83cm for the smallest Hilsen frame made (a 
57cm) and that's with 700x35mm tires.  I myself have a SOH between 79-80cm 
and I'm riding a 54cm Rambouillet w/ 32mm tires.  At best, I might be able 
to climb aboard a 55cm with a serious insult to the tenders every time I 
come to a stop.  Again, according to the Hilsen geo's someone riding a 61cm 
frame would have an average SOH of about 87cm.  AND you plan to use 42mm 
tires, which is going to jack the frame up even higher.

I must be missing something somewhere in the translation here...

On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 9:27:05 PM UTC-6, panog wrote:
>
> @John H.
>
> The 47cm chainstays were Grant's decision and seemingly one of the twists 
> he did on my Hilsen-like custom. The thinking is that there is no reason 
> for shorter than 47 considering also that my SH is at 80.5cm. The notion 
> here is being positioned less on top of the rear wheel which would affect 
> comfort. Grant also mentioned that the longer stays would not affect the 
> ability to adjust the line the bike takes around a turn. 
> The 47-49cm stays are more evident at the Riv touring style bikes ( ie 
> Atlantis and Hunq) vs. the more roadish style Roadeo. Even longer stays in 
> excess of 50cm appear to be the direction RBW is now taking with the newer 
> Appas, Rosco, etc 
> My experience with these is very superficial and limited to a couple of 
> hours on an Appaloosa. Until now the longest stays I had on any of my other 
> bikes were 43.5cm on my light touring and 41.5cm on my racing-like. I could 
> do a wheelie at will with either; particularly easy on a steep up-slope.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 6:58:56 PM UTC-5, John Hawrylak wrote:
>>
>> Pano
>>
>> The 47cm CS seem 2 to 3cm longer than normal.Were longer CS 
>> a conscience decision
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
>> On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 10:03:11 PM UTC-5, panog wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> CS length 47cm
>>>
>>  
>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[John Hawrylak]

Pano

I used this equation2xCSLength + (F+R)/4  + 1,  F & R are the large 
ring/cog, 46 & 32 in your case.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ  

On Sunday, February 5, 2017 at 8:59:47 AM UTC-5, panog wrote:

> @John H.
>
> Great! Not having to mend a chain would be convenient, John. It computes 
> to 116 links for up to a 34t cog. Never actually sized a chain with the 
> "equation method" before. It would be interesting to see how it compares to 
> the other methods. 
>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[panog]

@John H.

Great! Not having to mend a chain would be convenient, John. It computes to 116 
links for up to a 34t cog. Never actually sized a chain with the "equation 
method" before. It would be interesting to see how it compares to the other 
methods. 

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[John Hawrylak]

Pano

The 47cm CS and your gearing (46-32) computes to a CHAIN length of 57.5", 
or rounding up to 58".  This  allows for the normal 116 link chain. 

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ.

On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 10:27:05 PM UTC-5, panog wrote:

> @John H.
>
> The 47cm chainstays were Grant's decision and seemingly one of the twists 
> he did on my Hilsen-like custom. The thinking is that there is no reason 
> for shorter than 47 considering also that my SH is at 80.5cm. The notion 
> here is being positioned less on top of the rear wheel which would affect 
> comfort. Grant also mentioned that the longer stays would not affect the 
> ability to adjust the line the bike takes around a turn. 
> The 47-49cm stays are more evident at the Riv touring style bikes ( ie 
> Atlantis and Hunq) vs. the more roadish style Roadeo. Even longer stays in 
> excess of 50cm appear to be the direction RBW is now taking with the newer 
> Appas, Rosco, etc 
> My experience with these is very superficial and limited to a couple of 
> hours on an Appaloosa. Until now the longest stays I had on any of my other 
> bikes were 43.5cm on my light touring and 41.5cm on my racing-like. I could 
> do a wheelie at will with either; particularly easy on a steep up-slope.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 6:58:56 PM UTC-5, John Hawrylak wrote:
>>
>> Pano
>>
>> The 47cm CS seem 2 to 3cm longer than normal.Were longer CS 
>> a conscience decision
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
>> On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 10:03:11 PM UTC-5, panog wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> CS length 47cm
>>>
>>  
>>
>>>
>>>

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RE: [RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[olofstroh]

My custom Riv from 1999 – JB paint in dark metallic cinnamon still better 
looking – has 44,5 cm chainstays. At that time Grant complained that he 
couldn´t get his hands on longer ones so his thought were probably already in 
that direction.

Rides very, very nice though, also with the „short“ stays.

 

Olof Stroh

Uppsala Sweden

 

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of panog
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 4:54 AM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

 

@Don C.

 

I think the longer stays (47cm) are there to predominantly compliment the 
intended performance of the bike and not just for tire (up to 42mm) clearance. 
Looking at the RBW geo charts, the 63 AHH has 45cm CS and fits up to 43mm tires 
while the 62 Hillborne CS is at 45.5cm and fits up to 45mm tires. 



On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 9:56:14 PM UTC-5, Don Compton wrote:

Would his bike need the extra space for the larger tires and fenders? Just a 
thought.

On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 3:58:56 PM UTC-8, John Hawrylak wrote:

Pano

 

The 47cm CS seem 2 to 3cm longer than normal.Were longer CS a conscience 
decision

 

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 10:03:11 PM UTC-5, panog wrote:

 

CS length 47cm

 

 

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[panog]

@Don C.

I think the longer stays (47cm) are there to predominantly compliment the 
intended performance of the bike and not just for tire (up to 42mm) 
clearance. Looking at the RBW geo charts, the 63 AHH has 45cm CS and fits 
up to 43mm tires while the 62 Hillborne CS is at 45.5cm and fits up to 45mm 
tires. 


On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 9:56:14 PM UTC-5, Don Compton wrote:
>
> Would his bike need the extra space for the larger tires and fenders? Just 
> a thought.
>
> On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 3:58:56 PM UTC-8, John Hawrylak wrote:
>>
>> Pano
>>
>> The 47cm CS seem 2 to 3cm longer than normal.Were longer CS 
>> a conscience decision
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
>> On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 10:03:11 PM UTC-5, panog wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> CS length 47cm
>>>
>>  
>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[panog]

@John H.

The 47cm chainstays were Grant's decision and seemingly one of the twists 
he did on my Hilsen-like custom. The thinking is that there is no reason 
for shorter than 47 considering also that my SH is at 80.5cm. The notion 
here is being positioned less on top of the rear wheel which would affect 
comfort. Grant also mentioned that the longer stays would not affect the 
ability to adjust the line the bike takes around a turn. 
The 47-49cm stays are more evident at the Riv touring style bikes ( ie 
Atlantis and Hunq) vs. the more roadish style Roadeo. Even longer stays in 
excess of 50cm appear to be the direction RBW is now taking with the newer 
Appas, Rosco, etc 
My experience with these is very superficial and limited to a couple of 
hours on an Appaloosa. Until now the longest stays I had on any of my other 
bikes were 43.5cm on my light touring and 41.5cm on my racing-like. I could 
do a wheelie at will with either; particularly easy on a steep up-slope.



On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 6:58:56 PM UTC-5, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> Pano
>
> The 47cm CS seem 2 to 3cm longer than normal.Were longer CS 
> a conscience decision
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 10:03:11 PM UTC-5, panog wrote:
>
>>
>> CS length 47cm
>>
>  
>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Don Compton]

Would his bike need the extra space for the larger tires and fenders? Just 
a thought.

On Saturday, February 4, 2017 at 3:58:56 PM UTC-8, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> Pano
>
> The 47cm CS seem 2 to 3cm longer than normal.Were longer CS 
> a conscience decision
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 10:03:11 PM UTC-5, panog wrote:
>
>>
>> CS length 47cm
>>
>  
>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Steve Palincsar]

/Where black is the color, where n plus one is the number//
//And I’ll tell it and think it and speak it and breathe it//
//And reflect it from the mountain so all souls can see it/


On 02/04/2017 06:54 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

HA! "Or not" is the problem, Steve. I have a tendency to buy new bikes, then 
"forget" to sell the old ones ;-)



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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[John Hawrylak]

Pano

The 47cm CS seem 2 to 3cm longer than normal.Were longer CS 
a conscience decision

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 10:03:11 PM UTC-5, panog wrote:

>
> CS length 47cm
>
 

>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Dave]

Stopped by to pick up an order today and got a glimpse in person. Wow! Gorgeous 
color, unbelievable lug work, and incredible attention to detail. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Joe Bernard]

HA! "Or not" is the problem, Steve. I have a tendency to buy new bikes, then 
"forget" to sell the old ones ;-)

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Re: [RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Steve Palincsar]

You have the sequence of events reversed.  First you order the new one; 
when it comes, you sell the old one.  Or not.



On 02/04/2017 06:14 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

I really need to stop staring at your frame before I sell my Appaloosa and order a 
custom. "Make it just like Pano's, but Candy Apple Red." 



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Re: [RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Joe Bernard]

I really need to stop staring at your frame before I sell my Appaloosa and 
order a custom. "Make it just like Pano's, but Candy Apple Red." 

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Wayne Naha]

So beautiful!  I can't wait to see it built up.

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 6:17:26 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Of all the Riv customs I've ever seen, the one shown on the BLUG today is 
> the one I would be most likely to copy.  
>
> WANT!
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

['Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Jiminy Christmas! What a beautiful bike. I too was surprised about some of 
those features. I got the internal routing, seat stay pump peg and chain slap 
guard on my custom MAP and really like all those features. I thought I was done 
adding bikes for at least a couple of years but now I'm not so sure. I've 
always wanted a custom Riv...Enjoy Pano!

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Re: [RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[panog]

Absolutely! Looking forward to it!

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[ascpgh]

Makes me want to recondition my Orange Rambouillet, erasing sixteen years 
of beausage and adding a couple of braze-ons. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 6:17:26 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Of all the Riv customs I've ever seen, the one shown on the BLUG today is 
> the one I would be most likely to copy.  
>
> WANT!
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Jeremy Till]

Wow, that geometry sounds perfect (and would fit me great).  Please do post 
pictures when you get it built up!

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 7:03:11 PM UTC-8, panog wrote:
>
> Thank you all for your kind words! Mark sent me a few pics yesterday and 
> although I have not seen the bike in person yet, it looks from the pics 
> well balanced and every bit how I envisioned it.
>
> The bike has been in the making for about 18 months now; the first six in 
> my mind, trying to justify the "one more bike?" thing and the remaining 
> twelve in the making. An untold number of emails with Grant and Mark has 
> taken place during the design phase to crystallize the direction the design 
> was to follow. Grant, to his credit, often mentioned the similarities with 
> the AHH  but to me a Grant custom design, brazed by Nobillette and painted 
> by Joe Bell is the "perfect storm" I wanted to get caught in. Mark Abele 
> has been and continues to be extremely helpful, instrumental and patient 
> with my never ending avalanche of questions working out all the details. 
> Dealing with Joe Bell has been exemplary. His attention to detail goes 
> beyond paint lines. The fellow simply cares too much for what he does. The 
> first time the phone rung at 10:00pm EST I was surprised; the third time I 
> had gotten used to it. This journey has been a wonderful experience and was 
> as important to me as arriving at the destination.
>
> Frame stats:
> Size 62.8
> Seat angle 72, head angle 72
> Rake 50mm
> HT length 206.1mm
> TT eff 61.6cm
> TT upslope 2.5 deg
> CS length 47cm
> BB drop 80mm
> 700c, 135mm OLD, clearance for 42mm tires plus fenders
>
> Paint:
> Richard Sachs 2013 Saffron with HOK DP-18 Cinnamon Pearl
>
> Build:
> DA 9-speed bar ends
> TA Specialities Carmina 110/74 46/36/26
> Phil BB
> XT front and rear deraileurs, long cage rear
> 11-32 XT 
> Origin 8 Classique sport road brake levers
> Paul's braze-on Racers
> CK headset
> Nitto NP stem
> Nitto S83 seat post
> Brooks B17 select (1st time trying this, if not agreeable then the 
> Berthoud Aspin goes back on)
> Albastache (1st time on these as well, if not agreeable then back to drops)
> Schmidt Son28 dyno hub with Edelux II
>
> I build my own wheels and the set chosen for the bike uses H+Son TB14 
> polished 36h rims laced on WI MI5 hub with 14/15/14 ga Sapim Race spokes 
> arranged 3x for the rear. Front is also 36h due to the narrower flange 
> offset of the Son28. I normally use brass nipples but for this set I went 
> with the Sapim orange Polyax to carry over the frame color.
>
> Tires are the Compass 700cx35, tubed. These are the tires expected to be 
> on most of the time with a possible move-up to 38's for dirt trails. The 
> bike is set for up to 42's with fenders.
>
> Fenders will be the VO 50mm Snakeskin. I had to arm wrestle with Grant on 
> this; he does not know about the metal fenders yet unless Mark spilled the 
> beans so don't tell him!. I'll put these on myself when I get the bike 
> because I have the wheels waiting here.
>
> The bike will start its tenure as my daily commuter (thus the Albastache) 
> and then we will go from there.
>
> Excuse the very long post and thank you again for your kind words.
>
> Pano
>
>
> On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 6:17:26 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Of all the Riv customs I've ever seen, the one shown on the BLUG today is 
>> the one I would be most likely to copy.  
>>
>> WANT!
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[panog]

Reply to the question about the tubing used:

Discussed with Grant what the intended purpose of the bike is and trusted 
him to do his thing. He did use what he called the Riv standard; 28.6 for 
the TT and ST, 31.8 for the DT. 

Frame geo stats on a prior post.

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 7:40:37 PM UTC-5, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> Very beautiful.  Is there any info about the tubing specs and the frame 
> geometry?  
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
>
>>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[panog]

Thank you all for your kind words! Mark sent me a few pics yesterday and 
although I have not seen the bike in person yet, it looks from the pics 
well balanced and every bit how I envisioned it.

The bike has been in the making for about 18 months now; the first six in 
my mind, trying to justify the "one more bike?" thing and the remaining 
twelve in the making. An untold number of emails with Grant and Mark has 
taken place during the design phase to crystallize the direction the design 
was to follow. Grant, to his credit, often mentioned the similarities with 
the AHH  but to me a Grant custom design, brazed by Nobillette and painted 
by Joe Bell is the "perfect storm" I wanted to get caught in. Mark Abele 
has been and continues to be extremely helpful, instrumental and patient 
with my never ending avalanche of questions working out all the details. 
Dealing with Joe Bell has been exemplary. His attention to detail goes 
beyond paint lines. The fellow simply cares too much for what he does. The 
first time the phone rung at 10:00pm EST I was surprised; the third time I 
had gotten used to it. This journey has been a wonderful experience and was 
as important to me as arriving at the destination.

Frame stats:
Size 62.8
Seat angle 72, head angle 72
Rake 50mm
HT length 206.1mm
TT eff 61.6cm
TT upslope 2.5 deg
CS length 47cm
BB drop 80mm
700c, 135mm OLD, clearance for 42mm tires plus fenders

Paint:
Richard Sachs 2013 Saffron with HOK DP-18 Cinnamon Pearl

Build:
DA 9-speed bar ends
TA Specialities Carmina 110/74 46/36/26
Phil BB
XT front and rear deraileurs, long cage rear
11-32 XT 
Origin 8 Classique sport road brake levers
Paul's braze-on Racers
CK headset
Nitto NP stem
Nitto S83 seat post
Brooks B17 select (1st time trying this, if not agreeable then the Berthoud 
Aspin goes back on)
Albastache (1st time on these as well, if not agreeable then back to drops)
Schmidt Son28 dyno hub with Edelux II

I build my own wheels and the set chosen for the bike uses H+Son TB14 
polished 36h rims laced on WI MI5 hub with 14/15/14 ga Sapim Race spokes 
arranged 3x for the rear. Front is also 36h due to the narrower flange 
offset of the Son28. I normally use brass nipples but for this set I went 
with the Sapim orange Polyax to carry over the frame color.

Tires are the Compass 700cx35, tubed. These are the tires expected to be on 
most of the time with a possible move-up to 38's for dirt trails. The bike 
is set for up to 42's with fenders.

Fenders will be the VO 50mm Snakeskin. I had to arm wrestle with Grant on 
this; he does not know about the metal fenders yet unless Mark spilled the 
beans so don't tell him!. I'll put these on myself when I get the bike 
because I have the wheels waiting here.

The bike will start its tenure as my daily commuter (thus the Albastache) 
and then we will go from there.

Excuse the very long post and thank you again for your kind words.

Pano


On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 6:17:26 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Of all the Riv customs I've ever seen, the one shown on the BLUG today is 
> the one I would be most likely to copy.  
>
> WANT!
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Keith Muller]

I am personal friends with Pano, and I will say he is a man of details.  This 
frame is beautiful.  He has some beautiful bikes in his collection, but his 
seams eager to get his new bike.  After seeing the photo set of this frame, I 
now know why!  I am jealous of his new pony!

Keith

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Ryan Fleming]

when I bought my first 2 rivs , they sent you a diagram with frame angles 
and tube specs... I think  they may have been  scans of Grant's design 
 drawings with shorthand for the tubing. I didn't get something like that 
this time. I thought the info was kind of neat and interesting and I don't 
know when or why they stopped doing that

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 6:40:37 PM UTC-6, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
> Very beautiful.  Is there any info about the tubing specs and the frame 
> geometry?  
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
>
>>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[George Schick]

Groan.  Every time something like this comes along it's in a frame size 
about twice too big for me.  It's a beauty all right - kinda reminds me of 
some of those frames Waterford makes.  Wait! OTOH, maybe it's a good thing 
that it's too big or else I'd be trying to add yet another bike to my 
collection (spousal approval = negative).

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 5:17:26 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Of all the Riv customs I've ever seen, the one shown on the BLUG today is 
> the one I would be most likely to copy.  
>
> WANT!
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[John Hawrylak]

Very beautiful.  Is there any info about the tubing specs and the frame 
geometry?  

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ


>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Fred Craven]

Wait, WHAT? internal brake cable routing?

She is a beauty.

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[sameness]

Is pretty much perfect, all the way down to the color.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Ryan Fleming]

on the other hand I am very happy with how my mixte turned out and looking 
forward to riding it in the spring. 

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 5:22:47 PM UTC-6, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>
> it's a beauty, eh?
>
> On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 5:17:26 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Of all the Riv customs I've ever seen, the one shown on the BLUG today is 
>> the one I would be most likely to copy.  
>>
>> WANT!
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: BLUG reveal of an incredible custom

[Ryan Fleming]

it's a beauty, eh?

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 5:17:26 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Of all the Riv customs I've ever seen, the one shown on the BLUG today is 
> the one I would be most likely to copy.  
>
> WANT!
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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