RE: [RBW] Re: Best sellers-worst sellers
I remember reading in an old Riv Reader that Charlie Cunningham regularly writes backwards to this same purpose. Marc chewing gum and walking at the same time Schwartz From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] on behalf of rob markwardt [robmar...@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 10:14 PM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: Best sellers-worst sellers If you don't keep the brain thinking it starts to not think...I think I heard that somewhere. Keep the synapses snapping by putting on reverse front and rear der. and by switching the brakes from right to left. Great fun until you have to do the U turn as you head up the big hill due to a shifting malfunction. Rob Many U Turns Markwardt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Best sellers-worst sellers
Tennyson was always a couple steps more confusing than shifting. I never felt so screwed with Tennyson though. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/chsraLfg1HgJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Best sellers-worst sellers
I have a really nice older series (m953) XTR low-normal derailleur. At the Twin Cities bike swap last weekend, probably 100 bike geek types fondled it and wrinkled up their noses because it was reverse action. I like low-normal derailleurs, but most bike geek types are too jaded to even consider the concept. As Grant said, many of us are in a bubble. That bubble, for the most part, is invisible in the broader bike business. And, frankly, the broader bike business is invisible to many of us! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/IKyoyOpUiN4J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Best sellers-worst sellers
I have low-normal derailleurs on a couple of my bikes. So much better than high-normal IMHO. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/kq0adT06jRwJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Best sellers-worst sellers
On Fri, 2012-02-17 at 06:32 -0800, newenglandbike wrote: I have low-normal derailleurs on a couple of my bikes. So much better than high-normal IMHO. Fine if: - you have them on all your bikes - you never have to change back If either of those two conditions is false, you are so screwed. Especially so since, as I understand it, they've been discontinued. That means at some point you *will* be forced to change back -- at which point, as I said, you are so screwed. By screwed I mean confusion as to the correct means to upshift or downshift. I've been through all this before, with front derailleurs. I used to use backwards-acting SunTour front derailleurs: SL, CompeV. I changed back almost 20 years ago, and even to this day once or twice a year I go the wrong way and end up shifting to the big ring when I meant to go to the granny. If you try to mix within the fleet, you will suffer constant confusion and will blow shifts by going in the wrong direction all the time. High normal works perfectly well. Any improvement would be trivial at best, in my opinion, and couldn't begin to compensate for the mental confusion these ass-backwards rear derailleurs cause. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Best sellers-worst sellers
Rats! I'm so screwed and I didn't even know it. For both reasons. Here I was in the bliss of ignorance. No longer. 3 reverse action bikes + 3 normal action bikes. Lots of things confuse me (lots and lots). Shifting a rear derailer is not one of them. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/U85pEdcDH98J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Best sellers-worst sellers
I am hoarding the last silver (painted) low normal XT derailers. They are decent looking, work great, and can be had pretty cheap. I think low normal is a great idea. I don't think you necessarily need to have the whole fleet set up the same way, IF you use different shifters with the different derailers. FWIW, my mtn tandem has a high normal derailer, a flat bar, and rapid fire shifters, and it causes no confusion with my low normal, friction-shifted bikes. Gernot Chiang Mai, Thailand On Feb 17, 9:43 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Fri, 2012-02-17 at 06:32 -0800, newenglandbike wrote: I have low-normal derailleurs on a couple of my bikes. So much better than high-normal IMHO. Fine if: - you have them on all your bikes - you never have to change back If either of those two conditions is false, you are so screwed. Especially so since, as I understand it, they've been discontinued. That means at some point you *will* be forced to change back -- at which point, as I said, you are so screwed. By screwed I mean confusion as to the correct means to upshift or downshift. I've been through all this before, with front derailleurs. I used to use backwards-acting SunTour front derailleurs: SL, CompeV. I changed back almost 20 years ago, and even to this day once or twice a year I go the wrong way and end up shifting to the big ring when I meant to go to the granny. If you try to mix within the fleet, you will suffer constant confusion and will blow shifts by going in the wrong direction all the time. High normal works perfectly well. Any improvement would be trivial at best, in my opinion, and couldn't begin to compensate for the mental confusion these ass-backwards rear derailleurs cause. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Best sellers-worst sellers
I have had low and high normal RDs on several bikes at the same time and lived to tell the tale! I'd use some more low-norm but I seem to have inadvertently acquired quite a stash of XT high-norm. On 2/17/12, Earl Grey earlg...@gmail.com wrote: I am hoarding the last silver (painted) low normal XT derailers. They are decent looking, work great, and can be had pretty cheap. I think low normal is a great idea. I don't think you necessarily need to have the whole fleet set up the same way, IF you use different shifters with the different derailers. FWIW, my mtn tandem has a high normal derailer, a flat bar, and rapid fire shifters, and it causes no confusion with my low normal, friction-shifted bikes. Gernot Chiang Mai, Thailand On Feb 17, 9:43 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Fri, 2012-02-17 at 06:32 -0800, newenglandbike wrote: I have low-normal derailleurs on a couple of my bikes. So much better than high-normal IMHO. Fine if: - you have them on all your bikes - you never have to change back If either of those two conditions is false, you are so screwed. Especially so since, as I understand it, they've been discontinued. That means at some point you *will* be forced to change back -- at which point, as I said, you are so screwed. By screwed I mean confusion as to the correct means to upshift or downshift. I've been through all this before, with front derailleurs. I used to use backwards-acting SunTour front derailleurs: SL, CompeV. I changed back almost 20 years ago, and even to this day once or twice a year I go the wrong way and end up shifting to the big ring when I meant to go to the granny. If you try to mix within the fleet, you will suffer constant confusion and will blow shifts by going in the wrong direction all the time. High normal works perfectly well. Any improvement would be trivial at best, in my opinion, and couldn't begin to compensate for the mental confusion these ass-backwards rear derailleurs cause. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA ** “I believe in an America where millions of Americans believe in an America that’s the America millions of Americans believe in. That’s the America I love.” -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Best sellers-worst sellers
I always got confused with my low normal, tho' it shifted beautifully (even if, often, in the wrong direction). I suppose I would eventually have gotten used to it except that the other derailleurs I had were high normal and this fact screwed up the learning curve. A matter of taste and personal mental capacity, I suppose. On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:56 AM, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.comwrote: I have had low and high normal RDs on several bikes at the same time and lived to tell the tale! I'd use some more low-norm but I seem to have inadvertently acquired quite a stash of XT high-norm. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Best sellers-worst sellers
On Fri, 2012-02-17 at 07:29 -0800, Earl Grey wrote: I am hoarding the last silver (painted) low normal XT derailers. They are decent looking, work great, and can be had pretty cheap. I think low normal is a great idea. I don't think you necessarily need to have the whole fleet set up the same way, IF you use different shifters with the different derailers. FWIW, my mtn tandem has a high normal derailer, a flat bar, and rapid fire shifters, and it causes no confusion with my low normal, friction-shifted bikes. Yes, I should have noted that. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Best sellers-worst sellers
On Fri, 2012-02-17 at 07:23 -0800, William wrote: Rats! I'm so screwed and I didn't even know it. For both reasons. Here I was in the bliss of ignorance. No longer. She left the web, she left the loom; She made three paces thro' the room, She saw the water-lily bloom, She saw the helmet and the plume, She look'd down to Camelot. Out flew the web and floated wide; The mirror crack'd from side to side; The curse is come upon me, cried The Lady of Shalott. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Best sellers-worst sellers
If you don't keep the brain thinking it starts to not think...I think I heard that somewhere. Keep the synapses snapping by putting on reverse front and rear der. and by switching the brakes from right to left. Great fun until you have to do the U turn as you head up the big hill due to a shifting malfunction. Rob Many U Turns Markwardt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Best sellers-worst sellers
Yes, A Silver group sounds great. I was in a LBS today and they had a NOS XTR reverse action rear derailer. I have a friend with a reverse action (is the appropriate term low normal?) derailer and it instantly makes sense when I ride his bike. I would have bought the XTR today but it was overwhelmingly tough-guy ugly. As I'm standing there looking at the derailer... I thought to myself I wish somebody would make these that looked reasonably normal. I remember Grant writing something recently that he asked Micro Shift to make a reverse action rear but no dice. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ueljVZEHBU8J. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Best sellers-worst sellers
Well, Dia-Compe is openly selling the silver shifters to other vendors, so it's not like VO, Ben's or anyone are stealing them. I don't see them claiming to have designed or commissioned them, either, so I don't know what the problem is. If Riv didn't have an exclusive deal, or it expired, than that was part of the bargain they struck. Tektro doesn't sell 556 brakes as the brake Rivendell asked us to make. I think VO recently asked Dia-Compe to re-make one of their grand comp centerpull brakes, and D-C agreed. When that brake shows up elsewhere, I wouldn't expect it to be called the VO brake or the D- C brake commissioned by VO or any other such thing. I personally have never actually bought anything made by Rivendell - my Sam, Sackville, Mark's rack and MUSA stuff was all made by other companies, to Riv's spec. (Seems that a substantial part of the bike industry works this way, and everyone seems OK with it.) Some stuff is branded Rivendell or a Riv house brand, but the rack, for instance, is branded Nitto and is available from many other vendors. Maybe custom bikes are actually made there? I honestly don't know - never been to Riv HQ and I'm not in the market for a custom. I think it's great that more companies like Riv - VO, Soma, Herse, etc are getting great bike parts made (or re-made). The more the merrier, I say. -Pete On Feb 24, 3:11 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: I've bought two of the five best sellers and none of the five worst sellers. The thing I found interesting was the Silver Shifter story, and that Riv shelled out the $9k for tooling. Other retailers sell the Silver shifters, and all of them call them Dia-Compe Silver shifters with no mention of Rivendell. Ben's Cycle sells them, doesn't mention Rivendell, and copies verbatim Velo-Orange's description of them. I wonder if Riv gets a royalty when VO or Ben's sells a set of shifters, or if the $9k just gave them temporary exclusivity with Dia Compe which has since expired. I have one set of Silvers, and a stockpile of the original Suntours. It's a great shifter design, and despite what Chris at VO says, I'd run suntours or silvers over the Simplex/Mavic ones any day. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Best sellers-worst sellers
Pete Who said there was a problem? I just wondered what Riv got for their $9k investment. Idle curiosity, and zero conspiracy suspicions here. I worked long enough in the bicycle retail business to be curious about the business side of these things. Did Riv just shell out 9- grand as charity to the cycling community? Did they pay the $9k out of the goodness of their hearts for the privilege of buying shifters at wholesale, a privilege that every other retailer now gets for free? Maybe. Or maybe they get a slightly better price, or maybe they got a window of exclusivity. VO doesn't make anything either, but they talk to manufacturers and get them to make stuff, investing substantial funds, and getting exclusivity on the supply channel. There is no way to buy a VO- branded product (none of which are made by VO) without it going through VO's hands. If VO had to pay DiaCompe thousands of dollars to get them to make that gorgeous centerpull brake, then I'd imagine that Chris negotiated a way to get paid back on the success of the product. If Chris paid a ton of money to get that brake re-made, then as a consumer I'd be more apt to buy that product from Chris than from a retailer who didn't invest in the existence of that product. That's just me. I've exchanged a few emails with VO about various topics like this. The impression I get is that each of these manufacturers is a little different. Some will eat the tooling for free if you can convince them that the volumes are there. Some will absorb the tooling if you financially commit to volume. Others will make you eat the tooling and provide cliffed pricing to get it back with volume. SOMA works a little differently than Riv or VO. Everything branded SOMA gets distributed through Merry Sales. I don't know the details of that business relationship either. I buy Soma products through Riv, and through my LBS, but have never bought directly from SOMAs webstore. I don't know if buying a Soma product at my LBS gives any money at all to Soma, but again, I'm curious about these things. On Feb 24, 2:08 pm, Peter Pesce petepe...@gmail.com wrote: Well, Dia-Compe is openly selling the silver shifters to other vendors, so it's not like VO, Ben's or anyone are stealing them. I don't see them claiming to have designed or commissioned them, either, so I don't know what the problem is. If Riv didn't have an exclusive deal, or it expired, than that was part of the bargain they struck. Tektro doesn't sell 556 brakes as the brake Rivendell asked us to make. I think VO recently asked Dia-Compe to re-make one of their grand comp centerpull brakes, and D-C agreed. When that brake shows up elsewhere, I wouldn't expect it to be called the VO brake or the D- C brake commissioned by VO or any other such thing. I personally have never actually bought anything made by Rivendell - my Sam, Sackville, Mark's rack and MUSA stuff was all made by other companies, to Riv's spec. (Seems that a substantial part of the bike industry works this way, and everyone seems OK with it.) Some stuff is branded Rivendell or a Riv house brand, but the rack, for instance, is branded Nitto and is available from many other vendors. Maybe custom bikes are actually made there? I honestly don't know - never been to Riv HQ and I'm not in the market for a custom. I think it's great that more companies like Riv - VO, Soma, Herse, etc are getting great bike parts made (or re-made). The more the merrier, I say. -Pete On Feb 24, 3:11 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: I've bought two of the five best sellers and none of the five worst sellers. The thing I found interesting was the Silver Shifter story, and that Riv shelled out the $9k for tooling. Other retailers sell the Silver shifters, and all of them call them Dia-Compe Silver shifters with no mention of Rivendell. Ben's Cycle sells them, doesn't mention Rivendell, and copies verbatim Velo-Orange's description of them. I wonder if Riv gets a royalty when VO or Ben's sells a set of shifters, or if the $9k just gave them temporary exclusivity with Dia Compe which has since expired. I have one set of Silvers, and a stockpile of the original Suntours. It's a great shifter design, and despite what Chris at VO says, I'd run suntours or silvers over the Simplex/Mavic ones any day. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
