Re: [RBW] Re: Bleriot vs. Quickbeam efficiency
I am thinking of some hetre's to replace my col de la vie's on my Bleriot, so I would be very interested in your further evaluation of the new soma's Jim D Massachusetts --- On Fri, 5/21/10, Tyler wrote: From: Tyler Subject: [RBW] Re: Bleriot vs. Quickbeam efficiency To: "RBW Owners Bunch" Date: Friday, May 21, 2010, 10:44 PM I've known about the Soma New Xpress for awhile but assumed it won't be a good choice for me, especially since it's described as being somewhere between the hetre and the col de la vie in "speed." I stopped by Box Dog Bikes on the way home to pick up a pair of Cypres's. I mounted them and took the bleriot for a spin around the neighborhood. Even on the short ride I noticed a significant difference; much less of that sluggish feeling and almost no hesitation when pedaling out of the saddle. This is promising. I also liked the fact that I can remove and reinstall both wheels without having to deflate the tire. Tomorrow I'll take the bike up some hills to see if that's improved as well. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Bleriot vs. Quickbeam efficiency
on 5/21/10 1:15 PM, Tyler at mock...@gmail.com wrote: > Thanks for the input everyone! > > * I've checked the whole bike for "drag" except the wheel bearings, > I'll give those a look. Small drag differences can be big after a while. Freehub lagging (look for slack n the chain when you coast), wheels not completely seated in the dropouts, binding in the hubs when you clamp the wheels down. And, of course, the classic brake pad rubbing. > * I need to confirm that my body position is the same between bikes. > I tried to set them up as close as I could but it's possible one or > both configurations have drifted from the original setup after dozens > of tweaks over the last year. I particularly need to look at saddle > setback given that the bikes have different seat tube angles. My comparison is between the Quickbeam and the Hilsen, which are probably closer - especially since I tend to run the same tires on each. I definitely notice a difference when I switch between them, but I've usually got the QB in fixed-gear mode, so for me, I think it's more of a difference of fixed versus coastable. However, it took about a year of subtle tweaking to make the setups match. The final step was swapping to a slightly shorter stem on the Hilsen. (And by "match" I really mean reasonably similar - they don't match, the bag/rack arrangements are different, I have different saddles on them, etc.) One thing that I notice is that after I've been riding the QB for a while, switching to a coastable, many-geared bike just beats me up. My legs are sore and I'm more tired. It may be because unlike the Quickbeam, the cadence is not tied to the terrain. The other thing I notice is that the Hilsen feels less efficient for maybe a ride or two, and then it seems normal. By the third ride in a row, I'm riding the bicycle a bit more efficiently - using the gearing differently and feeling more fluid on the bike. You may want to play with riding the Bleriot for a few days straight, and see what you learn. It doesn seem to me that different models have different personalities, and sometimes you have to find the way it likes to be ridden. hope that's of some help, - Jim -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Gallery updates now appear here - http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com "Steel's what you want for a messenger bike. Weight. Big basket up front. Not cardboard with some crazy aramid shit wrapped around it, weighs about as much as a sandwich." -- William Gibson, "Virtual Light" -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bleriot vs. Quickbeam efficiency
I've known about the Soma New Xpress for awhile but assumed it won't be a good choice for me, especially since it's described as being somewhere between the hetre and the col de la vie in "speed." I stopped by Box Dog Bikes on the way home to pick up a pair of Cypres's. I mounted them and took the bleriot for a spin around the neighborhood. Even on the short ride I noticed a significant difference; much less of that sluggish feeling and almost no hesitation when pedaling out of the saddle. This is promising. I also liked the fact that I can remove and reinstall both wheels without having to deflate the tire. Tomorrow I'll take the bike up some hills to see if that's improved as well. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: Bleriot vs. Quickbeam efficiency
On Fri, 2010-05-21 at 20:13 -0400, Frederick, Steve wrote: > Tyler wished: > >If panaracer made 650b x 32 paselas I'd buy a pair in an instant. Maybe > >I just need to take the plunge on a pair of cypres since they're > >probably the closest I'll find to paselas for 650b. > > Don't pull the trigger on those cypres's just yet, Tyler--there is a > 650bX34mm Pasela-based tire coming from Soma very soon...look here for a > preview: > > > http://reneherse.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-650b-tire-from-soma-first.html I'd say it would be pretty easy to decide between them. They're not at all the same sort of tire. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: Bleriot vs. Quickbeam efficiency
Tyler wished: >If panaracer made 650b x 32 paselas I'd buy a pair in an instant. Maybe >I just need to take the plunge on a pair of cypres since they're >probably the closest I'll find to paselas for 650b. Don't pull the trigger on those cypres's just yet, Tyler--there is a 650bX34mm Pasela-based tire coming from Soma very soon...look here for a preview: http://reneherse.blogspot.com/2010/01/new-650b-tire-from-soma-first.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. <>
[RBW] Re: Bleriot vs. Quickbeam efficiency
Thanks for the input everyone! * I've checked the whole bike for "drag" except the wheel bearings, I'll give those a look. * I need to confirm that my body position is the same between bikes. I tried to set them up as close as I could but it's possible one or both configurations have drifted from the original setup after dozens of tweaks over the last year. I particularly need to look at saddle setback given that the bikes have different seat tube angles. * The bleriot probably weighs a few pounds more than the quickbeam, though given my own weight I don't think that would make much of a difference. Even if the weight difference was 5 lbs, that would still only be about a 2% difference in total weight. The efficiency difference between the 2 bikes feels well over 2% to me. * I ride with the hetres as high as 60/65 psi, usually closer to 50/55. Yesterday I dropped them to 45/52 (based on my guesstimate of 15% tire drop from the chart in VBQ) and noticed a pretty substantial difference (mostly improvement). Today I did some hill climbing on the way to work. I found myself exhausted like I was fighting against both the bike and gravity. The tires feel squishy to me when I'm standing which might be why climbing while standing and accelerating from a stop feel "inefficient." Aside from the hill climbing this morning, I've been riding the bleriot in the same gear that I use on the quickbeam for around town riding. The bleriot still feels more difficult in this gear but I need more time in the saddle to really confirm that. * The quickbeam uses 32mm paselas with tourguard which I don't consider to be racing tires, so I don't think it's a completely unfair comparison to the hetres. The paselas feel like the perfect combo of comfort and speed for me, I don't get that squishy feeling when I stand (which I frequently find myself doing on the quickbeam) but the tires are plenty comfortable even for long distance riding. If panaracer made 650b x 32 paselas I'd buy a pair in an instant. Maybe I just need to take the plunge on a pair of cypres since they're probably the closest I'll find to paselas for 650b. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bleriot vs. Quickbeam efficiency
I've experienced the same thing-- though my single speed bike is not a Quickbeam. I have always explained it to myself like this: My one gear is much easier to pedal than many of the gears of the multi-geared. This means that on downhill or flat sections I am not working as hard as I would be on my geared bike and am probably spinning more efficiently (higher cadence). When I get to the hills I have much more energy than I would on the geared bike and am able to go up it much faster-- then it is back to the downhill. and Repeat. It is the speed on the hills that makes the bike feel faster. I find that I am as fast/ feel faster on the single speed up to about 50 miles or so. The geared bike also feels faster on big climbs-- there is a classic 20+ mile climb here that is neither fast nor fun on the single. The numbers on the bikes' computers verify this. As an experiment, try putting the Bleriot in a comparable gear as the single and don't shift. Still notice the difference? Lastly, any chance there is a small engine in the seat tube of the Quickbeam? Might be worth checking. Cheers! cm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bleriot vs. Quickbeam efficiency
On May 20, 6:13 pm, Tyler wrote: > The bleriot feels like it's dragging some extra weight > regardless of the gear that I'm in is it? i wouldn't be surprised if it weighed 3-5 pounds more than the QB. > Sometimes I wonder if the hetres are just "slow" but that seems to go > counter to the ride reports of dozens of people who ride with hetres > and claim they're quite fast. i don't know if i'd call them "quite" fast. they roll nicely - no doubt. and they can't be beat when the pavement ends. but it's still a very fat tire, and even at a relatively higher psi, i find them to be a bit of a drag if i'm trying to ride "fast" on the road, i.e. accelerate/power-up over rollers/etc. the cush works against me - very noticeably - on hard efforts, especially when i stand. this is not at all a knock against that tire - it's not a road racing tire. it's a fantastic all-rounder tire, but it has it's limits. like jeremy, i'm also curious as to what psi your putting your tires. >I thought about swapping to cypres tires . .. especially given that I've read >you won't tell much of a difference > between hetres and cypres on paved roads. I have a different opinion here - the cypres is lighter than the hetre, and at higher pressures, it behaves more like a "fast" road tire than the Hetre in my experience. again, it's more noticeable when the road goes up or when I want to accelerate/push hard. that said - yeah, you might notice much of a difference between the two if you aren't riding somewhat aggressively. > The quickbeam is the first single speed bike that I've owned. Is it > common to find that a single speed bike is noticeably more efficient > for its 1 gear relative to a multi-speed bicycle in a gear of the same > gain ratio ? yes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bleriot vs. Quickbeam efficiency
Your body position is the same on both bikes? Sometimes even a small fore/aft saddle adjustment will make a big difference in pedaling power. On May 20, 5:13 pm, Tyler wrote: > I've had my bleriot for 2 years and my quickbeam for 1 year. I bought > the quickbeam to essentially be a simpler, single-speed version of my > bleriot. Since then the quickbeam has become my preferred bike. I > find that I'm (empirically) more efficient on my quickbeam and don't > tire as easily. After a 50 mile ride on the bleriot I feel tired; > after the same ride on the quickbeam I feel fine. I don't ride with a > computer on either of my bikes, the only constant being my cycling > partner. I find when I'm on my bleriot that I'm regularly slower than > her but when I'm on my quickbeam I'm regularly faster. I'm at the > point where I only ride the bleriot if there are going to be hills > that I can't tackle on my quickbeam. > > "Being slow" doesn't bother me as much as the perceived difference in > efficiency. The bleriot feels like it's dragging some extra weight > regardless of the gear that I'm in while the quickbeam feels like it > wants to keep rolling. If the bleriot felt similarly effortless I > wouldn't be bothered if it was actually slower than the quickbeam. I > wish that I had a way to definitively gauge this "dragging" feeling. > > The bikes are setup very similarly: > > Quickbeam: 60cm frame, 700 x 32 paselas, 32h stock wheels, sugino > crank with 40/32 x 16/19 gearing, noodle bars, brooks saddle, MKS > touring pedals without clips/straps > > Bleriot: 61cm frame, 650b x 42 grand bois hetres, 36h lesnik-built > wheels, sugino crank with 48/38/26 x 11-30 gearing, noodle bars, > brooks saddle, MKS grip king pedals > > Sometimes I wonder if the hetres are just "slow" but that seems to go > counter to the ride reports of dozens of people who ride with hetres > and claim they're quite fast. I thought about swapping to cypres > tires (650b x 31) but that's a $120 investment I'm not ready to drop.. > especially given that I've read you won't tell much of a difference > between hetres and cypres on paved roads. > > The quickbeam is the first single speed bike that I've owned. Is it > common to find that a single speed bike is noticeably more efficient > for its 1 gear relative to a multi-speed bicycle in a gear of the same > gain ratio ? Can any other quickbeam owners tell me about the > perceived efficiency difference between their quickbeam and their > geared road bike(s)? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Bleriot vs. Quickbeam efficiency
It is true that even in an equivalent gear that a derailleur system has more drag than a single gear setup because of imperfect chainline and the drag of the derailleur pulleys, but I sincerely doubt that just this drag is significant enough to manifest itself as fatigue over a 50 mile ride that otherwise wouldn't happen. Have you given the bleriot a thorough check to make sure that nothing's dragging on the wheels, and that the wheel and bottom bracket bearings are spinning smoothly? Also, what pressure are you running the Paselas and Hetres at? On May 20, 3:13 pm, Tyler wrote: > I've had my bleriot for 2 years and my quickbeam for 1 year. I bought > the quickbeam to essentially be a simpler, single-speed version of my > bleriot. Since then the quickbeam has become my preferred bike. I > find that I'm (empirically) more efficient on my quickbeam and don't > tire as easily. After a 50 mile ride on the bleriot I feel tired; > after the same ride on the quickbeam I feel fine. I don't ride with a > computer on either of my bikes, the only constant being my cycling > partner. I find when I'm on my bleriot that I'm regularly slower than > her but when I'm on my quickbeam I'm regularly faster. I'm at the > point where I only ride the bleriot if there are going to be hills > that I can't tackle on my quickbeam. > > "Being slow" doesn't bother me as much as the perceived difference in > efficiency. The bleriot feels like it's dragging some extra weight > regardless of the gear that I'm in while the quickbeam feels like it > wants to keep rolling. If the bleriot felt similarly effortless I > wouldn't be bothered if it was actually slower than the quickbeam. I > wish that I had a way to definitively gauge this "dragging" feeling. > > The bikes are setup very similarly: > > Quickbeam: 60cm frame, 700 x 32 paselas, 32h stock wheels, sugino > crank with 40/32 x 16/19 gearing, noodle bars, brooks saddle, MKS > touring pedals without clips/straps > > Bleriot: 61cm frame, 650b x 42 grand bois hetres, 36h lesnik-built > wheels, sugino crank with 48/38/26 x 11-30 gearing, noodle bars, > brooks saddle, MKS grip king pedals > > Sometimes I wonder if the hetres are just "slow" but that seems to go > counter to the ride reports of dozens of people who ride with hetres > and claim they're quite fast. I thought about swapping to cypres > tires (650b x 31) but that's a $120 investment I'm not ready to drop.. > especially given that I've read you won't tell much of a difference > between hetres and cypres on paved roads. > > The quickbeam is the first single speed bike that I've owned. Is it > common to find that a single speed bike is noticeably more efficient > for its 1 gear relative to a multi-speed bicycle in a gear of the same > gain ratio ? Can any other quickbeam owners tell me about the > perceived efficiency difference between their quickbeam and their > geared road bike(s)? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
