[RBW] Re: Cantilever Brake issue on Hillborne
I had a similar issue w/ the Sam Hillborne when I first installed the CR720s. After adjusting the angle of the brake pads, to eliminate toe- in, I haven't noticed any vibrations and have had very minimal break squeal. Seth Ely On Apr 16, 4:03 pm, MikeC wrote: > I have a Sam Hill with Tektro CR720's. They have a brass bushing that > pivots on the canti post. There is a lot of play in the pivot due to > the bushing being larger in diameter and shorter in length than the > post, which means it can wobble back and forth and side ways. It does > not pose a problem when braking at moderate to high speed, but when > slowing to a stop at low speed, like coasting with the brakes on into > the driveway at a few MPH, the fork shutters almost uncontrollably. > This is a 60 cm SH so the cable stops is way above the brakes due to > the long headtube, but the issues is mostly slop in the pivots more so > than the issue that Leonard Zinn referred to due to th ecable stop > being way above the brakes. > > Have any other SH owners run into this problem. I would imagine that > other Rivendell owners would also experience this assuming that the > same canti posts are likely used on all models. Any suggestions on how > to improve the situation, preferrably by reducing play at the pivots. > Otherwise, I really like the CR720 cantis with Kool Stop salmon pads. > > Mike C. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Cantilever Brake issue on Hillborne
I don't notice the issue. Have the same brakes on my Hillborne. 56cm size. Am running the brakes with the springs in the "tightest" position. The top of the three holes. Almost sounds like you have too much braking force to cause the shudder. Have you tried playing around with straddle cable height? Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Apr 16, 6:03�pm, MikeC wrote: > I have a Sam Hill with Tektro CR720's. They have a brass bushing that > pivots on the canti post. There is a lot of play in the pivot due to > the bushing being larger in diameter and shorter in length than the > post, which means it can wobble back and forth and side ways. It does > not pose a problem when braking at moderate to high speed, but when > slowing to a stop at low speed, like coasting with the brakes on into > the driveway at a few MPH, the fork shutters almost uncontrollably. > This is a 60 cm SH so the cable stops is way above the brakes due to > the long headtube, but the issues is mostly slop in the pivots more so > than the issue that Leonard Zinn referred to due to th ecable stop > being way above the brakes. > > Have any other SH owners run into this problem. I would imagine that > other Rivendell owners would also experience this assuming that the > same canti posts are likely used on all models. Any suggestions on how > to improve the situation, preferrably by reducing play at the pivots. > Otherwise, I really like the CR720 cantis with Kool Stop salmon pads. > > Mike C. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Cantilever Brake issue on Hillborne
I have this issue when a pad is toed-out (back touches before front) when I have adjusted the angel to toe in this issue goes away. Hope that helps. On Apr 17, 6:44 am, PATRICK MOORE wrote: > I've had no problems with my Tektros. > > > > On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 5:03 PM, MikeC wrote: > > I have a Sam Hill with Tektro CR720's. They have a brass bushing that > > pivots on the canti post. There is a lot of play in the pivot due to > > the bushing being larger in diameter and shorter in length than the > > post, which means it can wobble back and forth and side ways. It does > > not pose a problem when braking at moderate to high speed, but when > > slowing to a stop at low speed, like coasting with the brakes on into > > the driveway at a few MPH, the fork shutters almost uncontrollably. > > This is a 60 cm SH so the cable stops is way above the brakes due to > > the long headtube, but the issues is mostly slop in the pivots more so > > than the issue that Leonard Zinn referred to due to th ecable stop > > being way above the brakes. > > > Have any other SH owners run into this problem. I would imagine that > > other Rivendell owners would also experience this assuming that the > > same canti posts are likely used on all models. Any suggestions on how > > to improve the situation, preferrably by reducing play at the pivots. > > Otherwise, I really like the CR720 cantis with Kool Stop salmon pads. > > > Mike C. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- > Patrick Moore > Albuquerque, NM > For professional resumes, contact > Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com > (505) 227-0523 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Cantilever Brake issue on Hillborne
I find it strange that some SH owners have this issue while others have not had an issue. My pads were installed flush, but they are koolstop MTB pads with the the designed to provide tow-in automatically. I get no squeal just the low-speed shudder. I will look into pad angle. I am using the max straddle cable height allowed by the stock cable that came with the CR720's. I will try increasing the spring tension. But, the root cause, I believe is the considerable slop in the pivots, which is then likely amplified by the long head tube atop which is the cable stop a la Leonard Zinn's explanation. Is there anyway to shim the pivot to reduce the space? -Mike C -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Cantilever Brake issue on Hillborne
Second what he said, and go through the standards: Clean the rims with alchohol, some even sand them lightly. If that does not do it try lightly sanding or filing the pads to clean them as well. Next stop is Pauls or V-Brakes. I went through this with my Cross-check, but the judder was at all speeds, as set of mini-v brakes brought it almost to a omplete stop, but I was so tired of fiddling with it I sold the bike and bought the Rawland with discs. The stud slop is only one weak link in the system, and I believe it helps to magnify every other weak spot in the system. The other possibility is that with the wide profile and High cable they may be too powerful. Sounds hard to swallow, but I can make the fork hop on the rawland with discs. Watch the front wheel closely when you are doing this and see if it is spinning in a stop start kind of a thing or locked up and hopping along like a pogo stick. Rob On Apr 17, 10:22 am, CycloFiend wrote: > on 4/17/10 9:51 AM, MikeC at mecinib...@sbcglobal.net wrote: > > > I find it strange that some SH owners have this issue while others > > have not had an issue. My pads were installed flush, but they are > > koolstop MTB pads with the the designed to provide tow-in > > automatically. I get no squeal just the low-speed shudder. I will > > look into pad angle. > > Pad angle will definitely cause that issue. I've had that happen with and > without accompanying squawking. The Kool Stops also tend to bite a newer rim > a lot better than most pads. New pads + New rims = shudder, IME. > > I've never been able to run the KS pads flush. Always put a touch o' toe-in > on them. > > I'd also just double-check that the housing endcap is not moving in the > hanger, and that there's no gap when the housing runs into the brake lever > itself. > > > I am using the max straddle cable height allowed by the stock cable > > that came with the CR720's. I will try increasing the spring tension. > > Photo anywhere? > > - J > > -- > Jim Edgar > cyclofi...@earthlink.net > > "One Cog - Zero Excuses" L/S T-shirt - Now > availablehttp://www.cyclofiend.com/stuff > > Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com > Current Classics - Cross Bikes > Singlespeed - Working Bikes > > Send In Your Photos! - Here's how:http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Cantilever Brake issue on Hillborne
I have a 56cm SH with 720 Tektros: with the Tektro forkcrown-mounted cable stop, no problems. Switched to a headset-mounted stop (to install Nitto front rack and fenders), squeal (but no shudder), regardless of toe-in settings with stock pads. Switched to VO squeal- free pads, no problems, regardless of toe-in position. I highly recommend the forkcrown-mounted cable hanger, if your setup can accommodate it (if you have a Nitto mini front and a fender that mounts to the rack bolt with an L-bracket, adding the cable hanger doesn't work on my Sam because the Nitto bolt (integral to the rack) is just a bit too short. Without the fender, I could just make it work, but with the fender, no dice). See http://www.flickr.com/photos/25150...@n08/4426738206/ for the cable forkcrown-mounted hanger. Gernot On Apr 18, 12:38 am, rperks wrote: > Second what he said, and go through the standards: Clean the rims with > alchohol, some even sand them lightly. If that does not do it try > lightly sanding or filing the pads to clean them as well. Next stop > is Pauls or V-Brakes. I went through this with my Cross-check, but > the judder was at all speeds, as set of mini-v brakes brought it > almost to a omplete stop, but I was so tired of fiddling with it I > sold the bike and bought the Rawland with discs. The stud slop is > only one weak link in the system, and I believe it helps to magnify > every other weak spot in the system. > > The other possibility is that with the wide profile and High cable > they may be too powerful. Sounds hard to swallow, but I can make the > fork hop on the rawland with discs. Watch the front wheel closely > when you are doing this and see if it is spinning in a stop start kind > of a thing or locked up and hopping along like a pogo stick. > > Rob > > On Apr 17, 10:22 am, CycloFiend wrote: > > > > > > > on 4/17/10 9:51 AM, MikeC at mecinib...@sbcglobal.net wrote: > > > > I find it strange that some SH owners have this issue while others > > > have not had an issue. My pads were installed flush, but they are > > > koolstop MTB pads with the the designed to provide tow-in > > > automatically. I get no squeal just the low-speed shudder. I will > > > look into pad angle. > > > Pad angle will definitely cause that issue. I've had that happen with and > > without accompanying squawking. The Kool Stops also tend to bite a newer rim > > a lot better than most pads. New pads + New rims = shudder, IME. > > > I've never been able to run the KS pads flush. Always put a touch o' toe-in > > on them. > > > I'd also just double-check that the housing endcap is not moving in the > > hanger, and that there's no gap when the housing runs into the brake lever > > itself. > > > > I am using the max straddle cable height allowed by the stock cable > > > that came with the CR720's. I will try increasing the spring tension. > > > Photo anywhere? > > > - J > > > -- > > Jim Edgar > > cyclofi...@earthlink.net > > > "One Cog - Zero Excuses" L/S T-shirt - Now > > availablehttp://www.cyclofiend.com/stuff > > > Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com > > Current Classics - Cross Bikes > > Singlespeed - Working Bikes > > > Send In Your Photos! - Here's how:http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Cantilever Brake issue on Hillborne
Follow up - Had my Hillborne out for a ride this morning. Noticed that there is a movement in the fork when braking at slow speeds. Didn't seem to affect handling or anything. More like the brake is grab/release quickly and the bent fork trying to straighten out. Now, I don't consider this to be a bad thing. In fact, probably would not have noticed if this had not come up. Don't plan to change anything because of it. But the original poster is not imagining things. Does seem like the mechanical advantage issue where there is a lot when first applied and then modulation is less. For what it's worth, the bike has a headset hanger and the stock pads were swapped out to Yokozuna models from Rivendell. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Apr 17, 12:38�pm, rperks wrote: > Second what he said, and go through the standards: Clean the rims with > alchohol, some even sand them lightly. �If that does not do it try > lightly sanding or filing the pads to clean them as well. �Next stop > is Pauls or V-Brakes. �I went through this with my Cross-check, but > the judder was at all speeds, as set of mini-v brakes brought it > almost to a omplete stop, but I was so tired of fiddling with it I > sold the bike and bought the Rawland with discs. �The stud slop is > only one weak link in the system, and I believe it helps to magnify > every other weak spot in the system. > > The other possibility is that with the wide profile and High cable > they may be too powerful. �Sounds hard to swallow, but I can make the > fork hop on the rawland with discs. �Watch the front wheel closely > when you are doing this and see if it is spinning in a stop start kind > of a thing or locked up and hopping along like a pogo stick. > > Rob > > On Apr 17, 10:22�am, CycloFiend wrote: > > > > > > > on 4/17/10 9:51 AM, MikeC at mecinib...@sbcglobal.net wrote: > > > > I find it strange that some SH owners have this issue while others > > > have not had an issue. My pads were installed flush, but they are > > > koolstop MTB pads with the the designed to provide tow-in > > > automatically. I get no squeal just the low-speed shudder. �I will > > > look into pad angle. > > > Pad angle will definitely cause that issue. I've had that happen with and > > without accompanying squawking. The Kool Stops also tend to bite a newer rim > > a lot better than most pads. New pads + New rims = shudder, IME. > > > I've never been able to run the KS pads flush. Always put a touch o' toe-in > > on them. > > > I'd also just double-check that the housing endcap is not moving in the > > hanger, and that there's no gap when the housing runs into the brake lever > > itself. > > > > I am using the max straddle cable height allowed by the stock cable > > > that came with the CR720's. I will try increasing the spring tension. > > > Photo anywhere? > > > - J > > > -- > > Jim Edgar > > cyclofi...@earthlink.net > > > "One Cog - Zero Excuses" L/S T-shirt - Now > > availablehttp://www.cyclofiend.com/stuff > > > Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com > > Current Classics - Cross Bikes > > Singlespeed - Working Bikes > > > Send In Your Photos! - Here's how:http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Cantilever Brake issue on Hillborne
I am not using a daruma because my plastic Berthoud/SKS fenders have a riveted L-bracket. I don't think the fork crown on the 650B Sams is different. It's just that the Tektro fork crown cable hanger is very thick (it needs to be very stiff). Gernot On Apr 18, 8:44 pm, "carnerda...@bellsouth.net" wrote: > I may have missed this before, but is there a reason you have not tried > the fork crown daruma? > Also, for those who have or are considering 650B Sam Hillbornes, the > fork crown dimensions must be different. I have a Nitto mini rack on my > 52 and the bolt is long enough to fit a spacer on the front and a thick > washer on the back. > > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/carner/4504006453/ > > Cannot be sure since I am using V-brakes, but looks like there would be > room for the fork crown hanger and the L-bracket. > David > > > > > > Earl Grey wrote: > > I have a 56cm SH with 720 Tektros: with the Tektro forkcrown-mounted > > cable stop, no problems. Switched to a headset-mounted stop (to > > install Nitto front rack and fenders), squeal (but no shudder), > > regardless of toe-in settings with stock pads. Switched to VO squeal- > > free pads, no problems, regardless of toe-in position. > > > I highly recommend the forkcrown-mounted cable hanger, if your setup > > can accommodate it (if you have a Nitto mini front and a fender that > > mounts to the rack bolt with an L-bracket, adding the cable hanger > > doesn't work on my Sam because the Nitto bolt (integral to the rack) > > is just a bit too short. Without the fender, I could just make it > > work, but with the fender, no dice). > > Seehttp://www.flickr.com/photos/25150...@n08/4426738206/ > > for the cable forkcrown-mounted hanger. > > > Gernot > > > On Apr 18, 12:38 am, rperks wrote: > > >> Second what he said, and go through the standards: Clean the rims with > >> alchohol, some even sand them lightly. If that does not do it try > >> lightly sanding or filing the pads to clean them as well. Next stop > >> is Pauls or V-Brakes. I went through this with my Cross-check, but > >> the judder was at all speeds, as set of mini-v brakes brought it > >> almost to a omplete stop, but I was so tired of fiddling with it I > >> sold the bike and bought the Rawland with discs. The stud slop is > >> only one weak link in the system, and I believe it helps to magnify > >> every other weak spot in the system. > > >> The other possibility is that with the wide profile and High cable > >> they may be too powerful. Sounds hard to swallow, but I can make the > >> fork hop on the rawland with discs. Watch the front wheel closely > >> when you are doing this and see if it is spinning in a stop start kind > >> of a thing or locked up and hopping along like a pogo stick. > > >> Rob > > >> On Apr 17, 10:22 am, CycloFiend wrote: > > >>> on 4/17/10 9:51 AM, MikeC at mecinib...@sbcglobal.net wrote: > > I find it strange that some SH owners have this issue while others > have not had an issue. My pads were installed flush, but they are > koolstop MTB pads with the the designed to provide tow-in > automatically. I get no squeal just the low-speed shudder. I will > look into pad angle. > > >>> Pad angle will definitely cause that issue. I've had that happen with and > >>> without accompanying squawking. The Kool Stops also tend to bite a newer > >>> rim > >>> a lot better than most pads. New pads + New rims = shudder, IME. > > >>> I've never been able to run the KS pads flush. Always put a touch o' > >>> toe-in > >>> on them. > > >>> I'd also just double-check that the housing endcap is not moving in the > >>> hanger, and that there's no gap when the housing runs into the brake lever > >>> itself. > > I am using the max straddle cable height allowed by the stock cable > that came with the CR720's. I will try increasing the spring tension. > > >>> Photo anywhere? > > >>> - J > > >>> -- > >>> Jim Edgar > >>> cyclofi...@earthlink.net > > >>> "One Cog - Zero Excuses" L/S T-shirt - Now > >>> availablehttp://www.cyclofiend.com/stuff > > >>> Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com > >>> Current Classics - Cross Bikes > >>> Singlespeed - Working Bikes > > >>> Send In Your Photos! - Here's how:http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines > > >>> -- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > >>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >>> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >>> For more options, visit this group > >>> athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@google
[RBW] Re: Cantilever Brake issue on Hillborne
When I got my Sam, I tried to install the Shimano BR550 cantis from my Indy Fab, and I almost couldn't get them on because the bushings were too tight. I then put on the Tektro 720s, and they were loose. So perhaps try a different set of cantis to see if you can get a tighter fit. But the Tektros do work fine for me (see earlier post). Cheers, Gernot On Apr 17, 6:03 am, MikeC wrote: > I have a Sam Hill with Tektro CR720's. They have a brass bushing that > pivots on the canti post. There is a lot of play in the pivot due to > the bushing being larger in diameter and shorter in length than the > post, which means it can wobble back and forth and side ways. It does > not pose a problem when braking at moderate to high speed, but when > slowing to a stop at low speed, like coasting with the brakes on into > the driveway at a few MPH, the fork shutters almost uncontrollably. > This is a 60 cm SH so the cable stops is way above the brakes due to > the long headtube, but the issues is mostly slop in the pivots more so > than the issue that Leonard Zinn referred to due to th ecable stop > being way above the brakes. > > Have any other SH owners run into this problem. I would imagine that > other Rivendell owners would also experience this assuming that the > same canti posts are likely used on all models. Any suggestions on how > to improve the situation, preferrably by reducing play at the pivots. > Otherwise, I really like the CR720 cantis with Kool Stop salmon pads. > > Mike C. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Cantilever Brake issue on Hillborne
I went with the Paul Touring canti's on my Hillborne. They've worked superbly since day one, no squeal or shudder. I would highly recommend them. I also use a headset hanger with the Soma ( Tektro) levers. ~Mike~ On Apr 19, 8:20 am, Bill Connell wrote: > On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 6:03 PM, MikeC wrote: > > I have a Sam Hill with Tektro CR720's. They have a brass bushing that > > pivots on the canti post. There is a lot of play in the pivot due to > > the bushing being larger in diameter and shorter in length than the > > post, which means it can wobble back and forth and side ways. It does > > not pose a problem when braking at moderate to high speed, but when > > slowing to a stop at low speed, like coasting with the brakes on into > > the driveway at a few MPH, the fork shutters almost uncontrollably. > > This is a 60 cm SH so the cable stops is way above the brakes due to > > the long headtube, but the issues is mostly slop in the pivots more so > > than the issue that Leonard Zinn referred to due to th ecable stop > > being way above the brakes. > > > Have any other SH owners run into this problem. I would imagine that > > other Rivendell owners would also experience this assuming that the > > same canti posts are likely used on all models. Any suggestions on how > > to improve the situation, preferrably by reducing play at the pivots. > > Otherwise, I really like the CR720 cantis with Kool Stop salmon pads. > > I don't have a SH, but i've had some of the same sort of shudder on my > Crosscheck with the same 720 cantis installed. It's been a while since > i installed them, i can't remember if they're a loose fit on those > canti studs. It seems to happen more in the wet for me, and it seems > like it might be worse when i have my Shimano generator-hubbed wheel > installed, but that could be my imagination. Overall it hasn't > bothered me enough to change things, but i don't think i have much > toe-in on the front, and a bit more would likely fix it. > > -- > Bill Connell > St. Paul, MN > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Cantilever Brake issue on Hillborne
I wanted to follow-up and thank all for the discussion and suggestions. It turns out that although the pads were adjusted with slight tow-in becuase of the large amount of play at the pivots when the brakes were applied they were rotated toward the rim, which resulted in the pads actually becoming "heel-in". I adjusted the pads with a 2 mm spacer to get more exagerated toe-in, and it cured the shudder. This proves to me that while a long fork tube/head tube may contribute to the canti shudder, it requires other issues to initiate it. Obviously, closer tolerances between canti pivot and post would help, such as on brakes that come with a sleeve on which the cantis pivot, a la Paul's. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever Brake issue on Hillborne
on 4/17/10 9:51 AM, MikeC at mecinib...@sbcglobal.net wrote: > I find it strange that some SH owners have this issue while others > have not had an issue. My pads were installed flush, but they are > koolstop MTB pads with the the designed to provide tow-in > automatically. I get no squeal just the low-speed shudder. I will > look into pad angle. Pad angle will definitely cause that issue. I've had that happen with and without accompanying squawking. The Kool Stops also tend to bite a newer rim a lot better than most pads. New pads + New rims = shudder, IME. I've never been able to run the KS pads flush. Always put a touch o' toe-in on them. I'd also just double-check that the housing endcap is not moving in the hanger, and that there's no gap when the housing runs into the brake lever itself. > I am using the max straddle cable height allowed by the stock cable > that came with the CR720's. I will try increasing the spring tension. Photo anywhere? - J -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net "One Cog - Zero Excuses" L/S T-shirt - Now available http://www.cyclofiend.com/stuff Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Send In Your Photos! - Here's how: http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever Brake issue on Hillborne
I may have missed this before, but is there a reason you have not tried the fork crown daruma? Also, for those who have or are considering 650B Sam Hillbornes, the fork crown dimensions must be different. I have a Nitto mini rack on my 52 and the bolt is long enough to fit a spacer on the front and a thick washer on the back. http://www.flickr.com/photos/carner/4504006453/ Cannot be sure since I am using V-brakes, but looks like there would be room for the fork crown hanger and the L-bracket. David Earl Grey wrote: I have a 56cm SH with 720 Tektros: with the Tektro forkcrown-mounted cable stop, no problems. Switched to a headset-mounted stop (to install Nitto front rack and fenders), squeal (but no shudder), regardless of toe-in settings with stock pads. Switched to VO squeal- free pads, no problems, regardless of toe-in position. I highly recommend the forkcrown-mounted cable hanger, if your setup can accommodate it (if you have a Nitto mini front and a fender that mounts to the rack bolt with an L-bracket, adding the cable hanger doesn't work on my Sam because the Nitto bolt (integral to the rack) is just a bit too short. Without the fender, I could just make it work, but with the fender, no dice). See http://www.flickr.com/photos/25150...@n08/4426738206/ for the cable forkcrown-mounted hanger. Gernot On Apr 18, 12:38 am, rperks wrote: Second what he said, and go through the standards: Clean the rims with alchohol, some even sand them lightly. If that does not do it try lightly sanding or filing the pads to clean them as well. Next stop is Pauls or V-Brakes. I went through this with my Cross-check, but the judder was at all speeds, as set of mini-v brakes brought it almost to a omplete stop, but I was so tired of fiddling with it I sold the bike and bought the Rawland with discs. The stud slop is only one weak link in the system, and I believe it helps to magnify every other weak spot in the system. The other possibility is that with the wide profile and High cable they may be too powerful. Sounds hard to swallow, but I can make the fork hop on the rawland with discs. Watch the front wheel closely when you are doing this and see if it is spinning in a stop start kind of a thing or locked up and hopping along like a pogo stick. Rob On Apr 17, 10:22 am, CycloFiend wrote: on 4/17/10 9:51 AM, MikeC at mecinib...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I find it strange that some SH owners have this issue while others have not had an issue. My pads were installed flush, but they are koolstop MTB pads with the the designed to provide tow-in automatically. I get no squeal just the low-speed shudder. I will look into pad angle. Pad angle will definitely cause that issue. I've had that happen with and without accompanying squawking. The Kool Stops also tend to bite a newer rim a lot better than most pads. New pads + New rims = shudder, IME. I've never been able to run the KS pads flush. Always put a touch o' toe-in on them. I'd also just double-check that the housing endcap is not moving in the hanger, and that there's no gap when the housing runs into the brake lever itself. I am using the max straddle cable height allowed by the stock cable that came with the CR720's. I will try increasing the spring tension. Photo anywhere? - J -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net "One Cog - Zero Excuses" L/S T-shirt - Now availablehttp://www.cyclofiend.com/stuff Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Send In Your Photos! - Here's how:http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever Brake issue on Hillborne
Thanks. Good to know that. I do not particularly like the feel of the V-brakes with the travel agents, but they work well with no adjustment issues. Every time I get close to ordering a set of cantilevers one of these threads comes up and I back off. I have no experience with cantis and do not have any lying around in spare parts, so I will have to order before giving them a try. David Earl Grey wrote: I am not using a daruma because my plastic Berthoud/SKS fenders have a riveted L-bracket. I don't think the fork crown on the 650B Sams is different. It's just that the Tektro fork crown cable hanger is very thick (it needs to be very stiff). Gernot On Apr 18, 8:44 pm, "carnerda...@bellsouth.net" wrote: I may have missed this before, but is there a reason you have not tried the fork crown daruma? Also, for those who have or are considering 650B Sam Hillbornes, the fork crown dimensions must be different. I have a Nitto mini rack on my 52 and the bolt is long enough to fit a spacer on the front and a thick washer on the back. http://www.flickr.com/photos/carner/4504006453/ Cannot be sure since I am using V-brakes, but looks like there would be room for the fork crown hanger and the L-bracket. David Earl Grey wrote: I have a 56cm SH with 720 Tektros: with the Tektro forkcrown-mounted cable stop, no problems. Switched to a headset-mounted stop (to install Nitto front rack and fenders), squeal (but no shudder), regardless of toe-in settings with stock pads. Switched to VO squeal- free pads, no problems, regardless of toe-in position. I highly recommend the forkcrown-mounted cable hanger, if your setup can accommodate it (if you have a Nitto mini front and a fender that mounts to the rack bolt with an L-bracket, adding the cable hanger doesn't work on my Sam because the Nitto bolt (integral to the rack) is just a bit too short. Without the fender, I could just make it work, but with the fender, no dice). Seehttp://www.flickr.com/photos/25150...@n08/4426738206/ for the cable forkcrown-mounted hanger. Gernot On Apr 18, 12:38 am, rperks wrote: Second what he said, and go through the standards: Clean the rims with alchohol, some even sand them lightly. If that does not do it try lightly sanding or filing the pads to clean them as well. Next stop is Pauls or V-Brakes. I went through this with my Cross-check, but the judder was at all speeds, as set of mini-v brakes brought it almost to a omplete stop, but I was so tired of fiddling with it I sold the bike and bought the Rawland with discs. The stud slop is only one weak link in the system, and I believe it helps to magnify every other weak spot in the system. The other possibility is that with the wide profile and High cable they may be too powerful. Sounds hard to swallow, but I can make the fork hop on the rawland with discs. Watch the front wheel closely when you are doing this and see if it is spinning in a stop start kind of a thing or locked up and hopping along like a pogo stick. Rob On Apr 17, 10:22 am, CycloFiend wrote: on 4/17/10 9:51 AM, MikeC at mecinib...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I find it strange that some SH owners have this issue while others have not had an issue. My pads were installed flush, but they are koolstop MTB pads with the the designed to provide tow-in automatically. I get no squeal just the low-speed shudder. I will look into pad angle. Pad angle will definitely cause that issue. I've had that happen with and without accompanying squawking. The Kool Stops also tend to bite a newer rim a lot better than most pads. New pads + New rims = shudder, IME. I've never been able to run the KS pads flush. Always put a touch o' toe-in on them. I'd also just double-check that the housing endcap is not moving in the hanger, and that there's no gap when the housing runs into the brake lever itself. I am using the max straddle cable height allowed by the stock cable that came with the CR720's. I will try increasing the spring tension. Photo anywhere? - J -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net "One Cog - Zero Excuses" L/S T-shirt - Now availablehttp://www.cyclofiend.com/stuff Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Send In Your Photos! - Here's how:http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Goo
