[RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
and of course if you see tube, you rock the bead to pull it back into the tire. The tube really wants to be inside the tire if you give it a chance. New tubes are smaller diameter than the rim - they have to be, because they're going to stretch - when you reinstall a used tube, they're bigger diameter than the rim and tend to pinch for a different reason. On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 5:21:20 PM UTC-6, John Hawrylak wrote: > > Ron Mc stated "I haven't had it happen in 5 years and my tire-mounting > algorithm now includes lowering the tire pressure below 20 psi, until I can > push the bead in and see rim strip. I go all the way around the tire on > both sides and make sure I don't see tube." > > ++1 on this. I do the same after on a ride and a guy got a flat, fixed > and then got 3 more flats. I always thought he pinched the tubes, so doing > what Ron Mc stated works. > > John Hawrylak > Woodstown NJ > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
Ron Mc stated "I haven't had it happen in 5 years and my tire-mounting algorithm now includes lowering the tire pressure below 20 psi, until I can push the bead in and see rim strip. I go all the way around the tire on both sides and make sure I don't see tube." ++1 on this. I do the same after on a ride and a guy got a flat, fixed and then got 3 more flats. I always thought he pinched the tubes, so doing what Ron Mc stated works. John Hawrylak Woodstown NJ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
I caught one of these pinches the last time I changed tires; I THINK I fixed it. I'm 50 miles or so post-change, so cross your fingers rod On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 12:37:59 AM UTC-5, Christopher Murray wrote: > > I've had this happen three separate times on three different bikes (twice > while riding). In each case the tube was pinched under the bead of the > tire, pressure builds , and BLAMM-O!!! It really does sound like a gunshot. > On the bike a slight wobble starts and gets worse very quickly before it > blows. Initial wobble to blowing is a few seconds. > > In my case it was a very sloppy mechanic(me) who was more interested in > riding than taking his time and doing it right. > > Cheers! > Chris > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
Still probably a pinch flat, but yes, the tire in the sun could have increased the pressure to open the pinch wider. With Challenge tires as the bead stretches, I've had a couple happen while rolling as the day warmed up. One day on a greenway, the guy whose house backed up to the path came to the fence and asked if we were shooting guns back there. On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 8:58:47 AM UTC-6, Kyle Brooks wrote: > > I had this happen once. My bike was up on my roof rack on my car and I was > at the local trailhead getting ready to start a ride. It was an explosive > sound -- and yes, it sounded like a shotgun blast. There were a bunch of > other people at the trailhead and everyone jumped and we all were looking > around to see what happened. I got my bike down from the rack and found the > blown-out tire. The tube had a long 4 or 5 inch gash in it.The guys at my > shop suggested it was probably a case where the tube was pinched between > the bead and the rim. Probably up there in the sun, the pressure could have > increased enough to make it blow? > > Crazy stuff! > > I now inflate my tires part-way, then go all around squeezing the tire > from the rim to make sure I don't have it pinched. > > Kyle Brooks > Akron, Ohio > > On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 9:10:24 AM UTC-5, Kevin Lindsey wrote: >> >> So I inflated the 50mm Schwalbe Marathons on my Hunq to 60 psi (rear) and >> 40 psi (front) last night and wheeled it into the kitchen in preparation >> for what would have been my morning commute. About twenty minutes later, >> there was a deafening "bang" from the kitchen; I honestly thought a handgun >> had gone off or something had detonated in the microwave, and my left ear >> was ringing for a half hour afterward. Long story short, the Schwalbe >> inner tube on my rear tire had popped, shredded, and actually blew the tire >> off the rim; anyone who uses Marathons knows how hard it is to get those >> things on the rim in the first place, and it's sobering to think of how >> much energy must have been released to unseat one. Fortunately, aside from >> screwing up my commute and throwing my dogs' digestive systems into >> reverse, however, there was no other apparent damage. >> Anyone know generally what causes a tube to blow up like that? It wasn't >> over-inflated, probably only had fifty or sixty miles on it, was the >> correct size for the tire, and generally should have lasted for several >> hundred miles. My son has had this problem with some Specialized tubes >> recently, but the Schwalbe products are generally of a higher quality, but >> now I'm wondering whether there's a QC issue at the factories in, I assume, >> China. >> Any thoughts would be appreciated. >> Kevin >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
I had this happen once. My bike was up on my roof rack on my car and I was at the local trailhead getting ready to start a ride. It was an explosive sound -- and yes, it sounded like a shotgun blast. There were a bunch of other people at the trailhead and everyone jumped and we all were looking around to see what happened. I got my bike down from the rack and found the blown-out tire. The tube had a long 4 or 5 inch gash in it.The guys at my shop suggested it was probably a case where the tube was pinched between the bead and the rim. Probably up there in the sun, the pressure could have increased enough to make it blow? Crazy stuff! I now inflate my tires part-way, then go all around squeezing the tire from the rim to make sure I don't have it pinched. Kyle Brooks Akron, Ohio On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 9:10:24 AM UTC-5, Kevin Lindsey wrote: > > So I inflated the 50mm Schwalbe Marathons on my Hunq to 60 psi (rear) and > 40 psi (front) last night and wheeled it into the kitchen in preparation > for what would have been my morning commute. About twenty minutes later, > there was a deafening "bang" from the kitchen; I honestly thought a handgun > had gone off or something had detonated in the microwave, and my left ear > was ringing for a half hour afterward. Long story short, the Schwalbe > inner tube on my rear tire had popped, shredded, and actually blew the tire > off the rim; anyone who uses Marathons knows how hard it is to get those > things on the rim in the first place, and it's sobering to think of how > much energy must have been released to unseat one. Fortunately, aside from > screwing up my commute and throwing my dogs' digestive systems into > reverse, however, there was no other apparent damage. > Anyone know generally what causes a tube to blow up like that? It wasn't > over-inflated, probably only had fifty or sixty miles on it, was the > correct size for the tire, and generally should have lasted for several > hundred miles. My son has had this problem with some Specialized tubes > recently, but the Schwalbe products are generally of a higher quality, but > now I'm wondering whether there's a QC issue at the factories in, I assume, > China. > Any thoughts would be appreciated. > Kevin > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
for me it was always on Challente open tubulars (maybe a 3 or 4 times total). I haven't had it happen in 5 years and my tire-mounting algorithm now includes lowering the tire pressure below 20 psi, until I can push the bead in and see rim strip. I go all the way around the tire on both sides and make sure I don't see tube. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
I was chatting with a tech in a local bike shop a couple of days ago and asked him whether he'd ever had a tire explode. He said no, but that from time to time one of the bikes on display in his large downtown (Washington D.C.) store will randomly detonate, typically at night when he's alone in the shop. That'd certainly wake him up. Kevin On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 12:37:59 AM UTC-5, Christopher Murray wrote: > > I've had this happen three separate times on three different bikes (twice > while riding). In each case the tube was pinched under the bead of the > tire, pressure builds , and BLAMM-O!!! It really does sound like a gunshot. > On the bike a slight wobble starts and gets worse very quickly before it > blows. Initial wobble to blowing is a few seconds. > > In my case it was a very sloppy mechanic(me) who was more interested in > riding than taking his time and doing it right. > > Cheers! > Chris > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
> > Have to agree with the others - was likely pinched. We had this happen > over and over with my wife's rear wheel when she switched to Little-Big > Bens. That combination of rim and tire made it extremely hard to get the > tire seated properly. In the end, after a lot of other trouble-shooting, > we got a new wheel with a different rim. No problems since. > Nick W. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
Does anyone know the Max Recommended Pressure??? An old F Berto article stated tires are tested to 2xRec'd Preesure to stay seated on a nominal rim. Inflating a 60psig tire in 20°F temperature and then bringing it inside to a 70°F room increases the pressure by 5 to 6 psig. Not likely this was cause. Pinching the tube makes the most snese. John Hawrylak Woodstown NJ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
I've had this happen when my rim tape had been worn down (from wet/water) to expose the sharp edges of the spoke holes inside the rim. On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 6:10:24 AM UTC-8, Kevin Lindsey wrote: > > So I inflated the 50mm Schwalbe Marathons on my Hunq to 60 psi (rear) and > 40 psi (front) last night and wheeled it into the kitchen in preparation > for what would have been my morning commute. About twenty minutes later, > there was a deafening "bang" from the kitchen; I honestly thought a handgun > had gone off or something had detonated in the microwave, and my left ear > was ringing for a half hour afterward. Long story short, the Schwalbe > inner tube on my rear tire had popped, shredded, and actually blew the tire > off the rim; anyone who uses Marathons knows how hard it is to get those > things on the rim in the first place, and it's sobering to think of how > much energy must have been released to unseat one. Fortunately, aside from > screwing up my commute and throwing my dogs' digestive systems into > reverse, however, there was no other apparent damage. > Anyone know generally what causes a tube to blow up like that? It wasn't > over-inflated, probably only had fifty or sixty miles on it, was the > correct size for the tire, and generally should have lasted for several > hundred miles. My son has had this problem with some Specialized tubes > recently, but the Schwalbe products are generally of a higher quality, but > now I'm wondering whether there's a QC issue at the factories in, I assume, > China. > Any thoughts would be appreciated. > Kevin > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
I agree that it is highly unlikely pressure had anything to do with it. Rat Trap Max pressure is 55psi, and that is almost a 60mm tire. And most tires are built to withstand twice the pressure listed on the sidewalls. I have to pump the RTP to at least 60 just to get the bead to pop into place. (In fact if you had only pumped it to 30 or 40psi, it might not have blown off the rim---until you were out riding it.) Though, yes, I would never ride it with that much air. Lots of good advice above on how to seat a tire. A final check that the bead line is even all the way around at about half pressure is a good failsafe before topping off. On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 3:53:12 PM UTC-5, Garth wrote: > > > As for too much pressure ...personal opinions and experiences aside, by > Schwalbe's own standards he is in acceptable range. The tire still should > not blow off the rim unless not seated correctly even @ 60 psi. > https://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/inflation_pressure > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
Before I even install the tire I inflate the tube just enough to give it some shape. The install the tire, leaving half open. Then slide the tube in place, then close the tire, use some lever if necessary but often they are not, just depends on the tire. Then I start to fill the tire, but just enough to fill it out, just listen and you'll know when it is, there won't be anymore sounds coming from the tire. Then I deflate it just a bit, and using both hands pinch the tire and give it a little side flex to see inside between the rim and tire bead to make sure there is no tube showing. And make sure the valve stem is straight, then install the nut and tighten when inflated if necessary. Despite never finding any tube overlap to correct I've done this since the 80's anyways all the time. I have only had one tube explode and it did so where the valve stem it attached to the tube. The cause ? Since it only happened once and the tube is not recounting the event for me, I just call it one of those things, laugh and smile :) Otherwise I have never had a tube explode in the tire, despite like many of us using tubes of all various sorts. Even sticking to a brand name doesn't mean anything, since they could and do change anything about how it's made at any time . I suspect in Kevin's case it may have been from a seating issue and not the tubes, but I am just guessing like everyone else here. As for too much pressure ...personal opinions and experiences aside, by Schwalbe's own standards he is in acceptable range. The tire still should not blow off the rim unless not seated correctly even @ 60 psi. https://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/inflation_pressure -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
On 01/13/2017 02:38 PM, Ian A wrote: I've had the same symptoms from catching the tube between the bead and rim and it's not always been an immediate reaction. Sometimes a few hours have passed. I'm a little gun-shy around newly changed tires now. I always slightly inflate the tube and often used a narrower tube than recommended to mitigate the risk of pinching. Ear defenders are useful at the tire changing station.After inflation, my habit is to mostly deflate the tire, then work the bead around both sides checking visually that the tube is clear of the bead. A bright rim tape that contrasts with black helps that. It's not 100% foolproof, but it's useful to incorporate into your tire changing routine a step to stop inflating at around 30 psi, remove the pump, and holding the wheel in your hand, give it a spin. Watch a fixed point at the rim/tire interface and look for unevenness (i.e., hops or dips) as the tire goes around. A flap of tube pinched under the bead will usually show itself as a hop. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
I've had the same symptoms from catching the tube between the bead and rim and it's not always been an immediate reaction. Sometimes a few hours have passed. I'm a little gun-shy around newly changed tires now. I always slightly inflate the tube and often used a narrower tube than recommended to mitigate the risk of pinching. Ear defenders are useful at the tire changing station.After inflation, my habit is to mostly deflate the tire, then work the bead around both sides checking visually that the tube is clear of the bead. A bright rim tape that contrasts with black helps that. I've also popped tubes inside the tire by over-inflating which has unseated the tire, when trying to stretch a close-fitting and stubborn tire, but the pressure needs to be super excessive. A loose rim/tire combo could certainly pop off with relatively modest over-inflation. IanA/Canada On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 7:10:24 AM UTC-7, Kevin Lindsey wrote: > > So I inflated the 50mm Schwalbe Marathons on my Hunq to 60 psi (rear) and > 40 psi (front) last night and wheeled it into the kitchen in preparation > for what would have been my morning commute. About twenty minutes later, > there was a deafening "bang" from the kitchen; I honestly thought a handgun > had gone off or something had detonated in the microwave, and my left ear > was ringing for a half hour afterward. Long story short, the Schwalbe > inner tube on my rear tire had popped, shredded, and actually blew the tire > off the rim; anyone who uses Marathons knows how hard it is to get those > things on the rim in the first place, and it's sobering to think of how > much energy must have been released to unseat one. Fortunately, aside from > screwing up my commute and throwing my dogs' digestive systems into > reverse, however, there was no other apparent damage. > Anyone know generally what causes a tube to blow up like that? It wasn't > over-inflated, probably only had fifty or sixty miles on it, was the > correct size for the tire, and generally should have lasted for several > hundred miles. My son has had this problem with some Specialized tubes > recently, but the Schwalbe products are generally of a higher quality, but > now I'm wondering whether there's a QC issue at the factories in, I assume, > China. > Any thoughts would be appreciated. > Kevin > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
my first reaction was two things: 1.) i agree with bill and peter that 60psi is high. i usually go no higher than 40 on compass rat traps (measure 50mm), and they need a bit more pressure because the sidewalls are supple 2.) for stiffer / tires with wirebead, i go lower pressure. i blew off the tube and sidewall of some 650bx42 pasela wirebeads, with 40psi front (generally what I inflate Hetres to). i'm a 155lb rider 3.) could also be changing pressure from changing temperature On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 9:10:24 AM UTC-5, Kevin Lindsey wrote: > > So I inflated the 50mm Schwalbe Marathons on my Hunq to 60 psi (rear) and > 40 psi (front) last night and wheeled it into the kitchen in preparation > for what would have been my morning commute. About twenty minutes later, > there was a deafening "bang" from the kitchen; I honestly thought a handgun > had gone off or something had detonated in the microwave, and my left ear > was ringing for a half hour afterward. Long story short, the Schwalbe > inner tube on my rear tire had popped, shredded, and actually blew the tire > off the rim; anyone who uses Marathons knows how hard it is to get those > things on the rim in the first place, and it's sobering to think of how > much energy must have been released to unseat one. Fortunately, aside from > screwing up my commute and throwing my dogs' digestive systems into > reverse, however, there was no other apparent damage. > Anyone know generally what causes a tube to blow up like that? It wasn't > over-inflated, probably only had fifty or sixty miles on it, was the > correct size for the tire, and generally should have lasted for several > hundred miles. My son has had this problem with some Specialized tubes > recently, but the Schwalbe products are generally of a higher quality, but > now I'm wondering whether there's a QC issue at the factories in, I assume, > China. > Any thoughts would be appreciated. > Kevin > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
while the possibility exists that there was a QC problem with the tube, more likely it was a QC problem with the installer like others mentioned overinflation, pinched the tube, not seating the tire onto the rim. minh--who has been guilty of poor QC with tire installation in the past resulting in a similiar blow-out (while riding the bike!), incidentally also with a schwalbe tire. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Exploding Tires
When installing the tube, do you slightly inflate the tube, which makes tucking it between tire and rim without getting pinched much easier? If so, and you know you check it before calling it done, then follow Conway's advice. If not, try it with future installs, and see if that fixes the issue. "...throwing my dogs' digestive systems into reverse..." -- brilliant line! With abandon, Patrick On Friday, January 13, 2017 at 7:10:24 AM UTC-7, Kevin Lindsey wrote: > > So I inflated the 50mm Schwalbe Marathons on my Hunq to 60 psi (rear) and > 40 psi (front) last night and wheeled it into the kitchen in preparation > for what would have been my morning commute. About twenty minutes later, > there was a deafening "bang" from the kitchen; I honestly thought a handgun > had gone off or something had detonated in the microwave, and my left ear > was ringing for a half hour afterward. Long story short, the Schwalbe > inner tube on my rear tire had popped, shredded, and actually blew the tire > off the rim; anyone who uses Marathons knows how hard it is to get those > things on the rim in the first place, and it's sobering to think of how > much energy must have been released to unseat one. Fortunately, aside from > screwing up my commute and throwing my dogs' digestive systems into > reverse, however, there was no other apparent damage. > Anyone know generally what causes a tube to blow up like that? It wasn't > over-inflated, probably only had fifty or sixty miles on it, was the > correct size for the tire, and generally should have lasted for several > hundred miles. My son has had this problem with some Specialized tubes > recently, but the Schwalbe products are generally of a higher quality, but > now I'm wondering whether there's a QC issue at the factories in, I assume, > China. > Any thoughts would be appreciated. > Kevin > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
