[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
Don't forget the AHH blue! -Original Message- >From: Jeremy Till > >Have to say, the paint coming out of Riv these days has been great. >The blue Betty, the Black Bombadil (wow!) and now this stunning >specimen. That 60cm Sam looks just right. > >On Jan 6, 3:35 pm, John at Rivendell wrote: >> Here are a few pictures of the green Hillbourne, just posted to the >> site. >> >> http://www.rivbike.com/#product=50-700 >> >> Cheers, >> >> John at Rivendell >> Ulaan Batar Branch Office >> --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
Don't forget the AHH blue! -Original Message- >From: Jeremy Till > >Have to say, the paint coming out of Riv these days has been great. >The blue Betty, the Black Bombadil (wow!) and now this stunning >specimen. That 60cm Sam looks just right. > >On Jan 6, 3:35 pm, John at Rivendell wrote: >> Here are a few pictures of the green Hillbourne, just posted to the >> site. >> >> http://www.rivbike.com/#product=50-700 >> >> Cheers, >> >> John at Rivendell >> Ulaan Batar Branch Office >> --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
On Jan 7, 9:17 am, CycloFiend wrote: > on 1/7/09 8:29 AM, fenderbender at pedal_kr...@yahoo.se wrote: The question for me is whether the new series of bicycles > ride like a Rivendell. (Which, as far as I can tell, they do.) > The 48cm Hillborne I test rode this afternoon rode like a Rivendell should. Stable at low speed and takes you almost no time to get familiar with. The best thing I find most desirable is the almost absence of toe-clip overlap for that small size. There might be some TOC with fenders but I can live with that more than what I experience right now with my Bleriot. The $250 price difference from the Bleriot is reasonable, considering that you get those added braze-ons for racks and fenders and kickstand mounting plate. The use of canti brakes is also a welcome feature, making the M-12 Nitto Front rack perfect for this bike. I don't like green as a color on a bike but I can live with this one on the Hillborne. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
Wow, you're right about the Romulus/Redwood bikes, Bill. Wasn't that long ago at all. DE On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Bill Connell wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Frederick, Steve > wrote: > > > > I think it's a compromise to hit a price point rather than a > philisophical conversion. I think the Yen exchange rate has driven the > price of frames made there so high that Riv is having more frames built here > at the higher end and going to Taiwan for the lower (relatively) end. Fewer > sizes means lower costs and easier inventory control... > > > > Riv. for the masses (again, relatively) can't be bad! > > Agreed, and the way that costs and the value of the dollar are going, > it's probably a matter of survival too. It wasn't that many years ago > that the Romulus was introduced as a *complete* Japanese-made bike for > under $1500 (though they apparently didn't make a big profit there > either). > > I'd understand if the new designs made some people howl that Grant has > walked over to the slippery slope, but i think he's done an admirable > job of making some reasonable design changes to save cost while > keeping the style and (presumably) the ride that make Rivendell > unique. The colors and decal work on both the Betty and Hillbourne are > top-notch, i think they'll do well. > > -- > Bill Connell > St. Paul, MN > > > > -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Frederick, Steve wrote: > > I think it's a compromise to hit a price point rather than a philisophical > conversion. I think the Yen exchange rate has driven the price of frames > made there so high that Riv is having more frames built here at the higher > end and going to Taiwan for the lower (relatively) end. Fewer sizes means > lower costs and easier inventory control... > > Riv. for the masses (again, relatively) can't be bad! Agreed, and the way that costs and the value of the dollar are going, it's probably a matter of survival too. It wasn't that many years ago that the Romulus was introduced as a *complete* Japanese-made bike for under $1500 (though they apparently didn't make a big profit there either). I'd understand if the new designs made some people howl that Grant has walked over to the slippery slope, but i think he's done an admirable job of making some reasonable design changes to save cost while keeping the style and (presumably) the ride that make Rivendell unique. The colors and decal work on both the Betty and Hillbourne are top-notch, i think they'll do well. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
I agree, Bill--Grant has walked that fine line most skillfully... Steve Bill Connell wrote, in part: I'd understand if the new designs made some people howl that Grant has walked over to the slippery slope, but i think he's done an admirable job of making some reasonable design changes to save cost while keeping the style and (presumably) the ride that make Rivendell unique. The colors and decal work on both the Betty and Hillbourne are top-notch, i think they'll do well. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
I think it's a compromise to hit a price point rather than a philisophical conversion. I think the Yen exchange rate has driven the price of frames made there so high that Riv is having more frames built here at the higher end and going to Taiwan for the lower (relatively) end. Fewer sizes means lower costs and easier inventory control... Riv. for the masses (again, relatively) can't be bad! Steve -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of Will Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:03 AM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint It's interesting that the Sam "frame design is 'expanded,' which is not at all like 'compact.' The top tube slopes up 6 degrees..." This seems to me to be a departure from the usual 2-degree top tube we've seen on most other RBW road models. A change in design philosophy? On Jan 6, 11:56 pm, "Doug Peterson" wrote: > Nice color, attractive without screaming "look at me". Classy. Especially > like the braze on for the shifter cables. > > More photos - rack mount details? Maybe a bike fully racked up? Aw, come > on, it'll only take a few hoursplease? > > dougP > > -Original Message- > From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com > > [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John at Rivendell > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:35 PM > To: RBW Owners Bunch > Subject: [RBW] Hillbourne With Paint > > Here are a few pictures of the green Hillbourne, just posted to the > site. > > http://www.rivbike.com/#product=50-700 > > Cheers, > > John at Rivendell > Ulaan Batar Branch Office --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
Right - AFAIK, JB only paints the customs, and maybe not even all of those. If i had a custom in the works, i'd happily pass the paint on to someone else who doesn't have a multi-month waiting list. Curt Goodrich built himself a paint booth last year and has been spraying some of his own frame builds, at least partly because the JB paint queue was adding so much time to the wait for his frames. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 12:01 PM, RM wrote: > > Almost certainly not painted by Joe Bell--His paint jobs cost about > almost half the price of a Hillborne frame. > > Rob > > > On Jan 7, 2009, at 9:44 AM, fenderbender wrote: > >> >> Oh, well it did accour to me that it might be another sample of >> "grant- >> ified" humour. But as English isn't my native "sprache" it's sometimes >> difficult to trust once intuition. ;) >> Paint quality and choice of colour sure is up compared to previous >> Taiwan made frames. But then I guess it's done in the US by Joe Bell? >> >> On 7 Jan, 18:17, CycloFiend wrote: >>> on 1/7/09 8:29 AM, fenderbender at pedal_kr...@yahoo.se wrote: >>> >>> >>> It is confusing and I probably miss the point. But I'm not sure it's a good to introduce yet another term and at the same time claim to bring cycling back to normal people. I guess it's a bit to do with the fact that expanded as well as compact frame's are design to fit a bigger range of body sizes. But why not just state the actual frame size together with the range of sizes it replace? Seem like Kogswell already use this expanded frame type. But they state the size measured from the center of the BB all the way to the tip of the extended seat tube witch I find better correspond to the old tried and true:http://www.kogswell.com/siteGEOblue.php Never the less it's a lovely allround frame I would sertainly buy one it wasn't so expensive to ship/import. Could get a custome frame built for the same mone here in Europe! >>> >>> I think that GP's use of the word was partially tongue-in-cheek. >>> There are >>> definitely fewer sizes in the newer frames, but I think he was >>> playing on >>> the use of the word "Compact", as initially used by Giant on the >>> OCR and TCR >>> series. >>> >>> At the time, it was unique. But, it was also modeled on the elite >>> racer >>> body position, as even with tall stems, the handlebar height was >>> seriously >>> below the saddle. >>> >>> I think he had to call them something to differentiate them from >>> the more >>> expensive frames. And they certainly aren't "compact" in the >>> original >>> meaning. There are definitely other designs that have used a >>> taller front >>> end. The use of fewer sizes is what is allowing these to come in >>> for a more >>> attractive price. The question for me is whether the new series of >>> bicycles >>> ride like a Rivendell. (Which, as far as I can tell, they do.) >>> >>> And that green is really off the charts gorgeous, too... >>> >>> - Jim >>> >>> -- >>> Jim Edgar >>> cyclofi...@earthlink.net >>> >>> Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com >>> Current Classics - Cross Bikes >>> Singlespeed - Working Bikes >>> Workshops of the iBob's >>> >>> Send In Your Photos! - Here's how:http://www.cyclofiend.com/ >>> guidelines >>> >>> "My nighttime attitude is anyone can run you down and get away >>> with it. >>> That's why I don't even own a bike light or one of those godawful >>> reflective >>> suits. Because if you've put yourself in a position where someone >>> has to >>> see you in order for you to be safe...you've already blown it." >>> -- Neal Stephenson, "Zodiac" >> > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
Almost certainly not painted by Joe Bell--His paint jobs cost about almost half the price of a Hillborne frame. Rob On Jan 7, 2009, at 9:44 AM, fenderbender wrote: > > Oh, well it did accour to me that it might be another sample of > "grant- > ified" humour. But as English isn't my native "sprache" it's sometimes > difficult to trust once intuition. ;) > Paint quality and choice of colour sure is up compared to previous > Taiwan made frames. But then I guess it's done in the US by Joe Bell? > > On 7 Jan, 18:17, CycloFiend wrote: >> on 1/7/09 8:29 AM, fenderbender at pedal_kr...@yahoo.se wrote: >> >> >> >>> It is confusing and I probably miss the point. But I'm not sure >>> it's a >>> good to introduce yet another term and at the same time claim to >>> bring >>> cycling back to normal people. >>> I guess it's a bit to do with the fact that expanded as well as >>> compact frame's are design to fit a bigger range of body sizes. But >>> why not just state the actual frame size together with the range of >>> sizes it replace? >>> Seem like Kogswell already use this expanded frame type. But they >>> state the size measured from the center of the BB all the way to the >>> tip of the extended seat tube witch I find better correspond to the >>> old tried and true:http://www.kogswell.com/siteGEOblue.php >>> Never the less it's a lovely allround frame I would sertainly buy >>> one >>> it wasn't so expensive to ship/import. Could get a custome frame >>> built >>> for the same mone here in Europe! >> >> I think that GP's use of the word was partially tongue-in-cheek. >> There are >> definitely fewer sizes in the newer frames, but I think he was >> playing on >> the use of the word "Compact", as initially used by Giant on the >> OCR and TCR >> series. >> >> At the time, it was unique. But, it was also modeled on the elite >> racer >> body position, as even with tall stems, the handlebar height was >> seriously >> below the saddle. >> >> I think he had to call them something to differentiate them from >> the more >> expensive frames. And they certainly aren't "compact" in the >> original >> meaning. There are definitely other designs that have used a >> taller front >> end. The use of fewer sizes is what is allowing these to come in >> for a more >> attractive price. The question for me is whether the new series of >> bicycles >> ride like a Rivendell. (Which, as far as I can tell, they do.) >> >> And that green is really off the charts gorgeous, too... >> >> - Jim >> >> -- >> Jim Edgar >> cyclofi...@earthlink.net >> >> Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com >> Current Classics - Cross Bikes >> Singlespeed - Working Bikes >> Workshops of the iBob's >> >> Send In Your Photos! - Here's how:http://www.cyclofiend.com/ >> guidelines >> >> "My nighttime attitude is anyone can run you down and get away >> with it. >> That's why I don't even own a bike light or one of those godawful >> reflective >> suits. Because if you've put yourself in a position where someone >> has to >> see you in order for you to be safe...you've already blown it." >> -- Neal Stephenson, "Zodiac" > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
That was my feeling as well. However, I did test ride the Atlantis and found that it did not seem as "lively" as the Saluki and Bleriot. So, maybe if your riding of the Bleriot tends less towards the heavy touring, off road riding, and more towards the light touring fast-ish road riding, the Bleriot might be a better choice. That is what I tell myself anyway. Jim D. Massacjusetts --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Chris wrote: From: Chris Subject: [RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint To: "RBW Owners Bunch" Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 10:33 AM The color and frame look great! I'll have to say I was a little envious of all the braze-ons compared to my Bleriot, almost wish I'd waited longer to get the Sam... Oh well! :) On Jan 7, 6:51 am, Rick wrote: > In addition to any structural issues, that 6 degree slope makes it > possible to fit a lot of different folks with just the four sizes. At > least that's what I took away from the description of the 56 set up to > accomodate someone who could ride a 63 AHH. > > But what I like about Sam is all the well-thought out braze-ons that > make it such a mutable and adaptable creature for differing > applications: touring, off-road, or just the wee rack up front. And > the green. The green looks fantastic. > > On Jan 7, 8:02 am, Will wrote: > > > > > It's interesting that the Sam "frame design is 'expanded,' which is > > not at all like 'compact.' The top tube slopes up 6 degrees..." This > > seems to me to be a departure from the usual 2-degree top tube we've > > seen on most other RBW road models. A change in design philosophy? > > > On Jan 6, 11:56 pm, "Doug Peterson" wrote: > > > > Nice color, attractive without screaming "look at me". Classy. Especially > > > like the braze on for the shifter cables. > > > > More photos - rack mount details? Maybe a bike fully racked up? Aw, come > > > on, it'll only take a few hoursplease? > > > > dougP > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com > > > > [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John at Rivendell > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:35 PM > > > To: RBW Owners Bunch > > > Subject: [RBW] Hillbourne With Paint > > > > Here are a few pictures of the green Hillbourne, just posted to the > > > site. > > > >http://www.rivbike.com/#product=50-700 > > > > Cheers, > > > > John at Rivendell > > > Ulaan Batar Branch Office- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
Oh, well it did accour to me that it might be another sample of "grant- ified" humour. But as English isn't my native "sprache" it's sometimes difficult to trust once intuition. ;) Paint quality and choice of colour sure is up compared to previous Taiwan made frames. But then I guess it's done in the US by Joe Bell? On 7 Jan, 18:17, CycloFiend wrote: > on 1/7/09 8:29 AM, fenderbender at pedal_kr...@yahoo.se wrote: > > > > > It is confusing and I probably miss the point. But I'm not sure it's a > > good to introduce yet another term and at the same time claim to bring > > cycling back to normal people. > > I guess it's a bit to do with the fact that expanded as well as > > compact frame's are design to fit a bigger range of body sizes. But > > why not just state the actual frame size together with the range of > > sizes it replace? > > Seem like Kogswell already use this expanded frame type. But they > > state the size measured from the center of the BB all the way to the > > tip of the extended seat tube witch I find better correspond to the > > old tried and true:http://www.kogswell.com/siteGEOblue.php > > Never the less it's a lovely allround frame I would sertainly buy one > > it wasn't so expensive to ship/import. Could get a custome frame built > > for the same mone here in Europe! > > I think that GP's use of the word was partially tongue-in-cheek. There are > definitely fewer sizes in the newer frames, but I think he was playing on > the use of the word "Compact", as initially used by Giant on the OCR and TCR > series. > > At the time, it was unique. But, it was also modeled on the elite racer > body position, as even with tall stems, the handlebar height was seriously > below the saddle. > > I think he had to call them something to differentiate them from the more > expensive frames. And they certainly aren't "compact" in the original > meaning. There are definitely other designs that have used a taller front > end. The use of fewer sizes is what is allowing these to come in for a more > attractive price. The question for me is whether the new series of bicycles > ride like a Rivendell. (Which, as far as I can tell, they do.) > > And that green is really off the charts gorgeous, too... > > - Jim > > -- > Jim Edgar > cyclofi...@earthlink.net > > Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com > Current Classics - Cross Bikes > Singlespeed - Working Bikes > Workshops of the iBob's > > Send In Your Photos! - Here's how:http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines > > "My nighttime attitude is anyone can run you down and get away with it. > That's why I don't even own a bike light or one of those godawful reflective > suits. Because if you've put yourself in a position where someone has to > see you in order for you to be safe...you've already blown it." > -- Neal Stephenson, "Zodiac" --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
Hummm, nice, but how would one mount up DT shifters? I've become a fan of friction DT shifters. RS --- On Wed, 1/7/09, CycloFiend wrote: From: CycloFiend Subject: [RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 9:17 AM on 1/7/09 8:29 AM, fenderbender at pedal_kr...@yahoo.se wrote: > > It is confusing and I probably miss the point. But I'm not sure it's a > good to introduce yet another term and at the same time claim to bring > cycling back to normal people. > I guess it's a bit to do with the fact that expanded as well as > compact frame's are design to fit a bigger range of body sizes. But > why not just state the actual frame size together with the range of > sizes it replace? > Seem like Kogswell already use this expanded frame type. But they > state the size measured from the center of the BB all the way to the > tip of the extended seat tube witch I find better correspond to the > old tried and true: http://www.kogswell.com/siteGEOblue.php > Never the less it's a lovely allround frame I would sertainly buy one > it wasn't so expensive to ship/import. Could get a custome frame built > for the same mone here in Europe! I think that GP's use of the word was partially tongue-in-cheek. There are definitely fewer sizes in the newer frames, but I think he was playing on the use of the word "Compact", as initially used by Giant on the OCR and TCR series. At the time, it was unique. But, it was also modeled on the elite racer body position, as even with tall stems, the handlebar height was seriously below the saddle. I think he had to call them something to differentiate them from the more expensive frames. And they certainly aren't "compact" in the original meaning. There are definitely other designs that have used a taller front end. The use of fewer sizes is what is allowing these to come in for a more attractive price. The question for me is whether the new series of bicycles ride like a Rivendell. (Which, as far as I can tell, they do.) And that green is really off the charts gorgeous, too... - Jim -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Workshops of the iBob's Send In Your Photos! - Here's how: http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines "My nighttime attitude is anyone can run you down and get away with it. That's why I don't even own a bike light or one of those godawful reflective suits. Because if you've put yourself in a position where someone has to see you in order for you to be safe...you've already blown it." -- Neal Stephenson, "Zodiac" --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
on 1/7/09 8:29 AM, fenderbender at pedal_kr...@yahoo.se wrote: > > It is confusing and I probably miss the point. But I'm not sure it's a > good to introduce yet another term and at the same time claim to bring > cycling back to normal people. > I guess it's a bit to do with the fact that expanded as well as > compact frame's are design to fit a bigger range of body sizes. But > why not just state the actual frame size together with the range of > sizes it replace? > Seem like Kogswell already use this expanded frame type. But they > state the size measured from the center of the BB all the way to the > tip of the extended seat tube witch I find better correspond to the > old tried and true: http://www.kogswell.com/siteGEOblue.php > Never the less it's a lovely allround frame I would sertainly buy one > it wasn't so expensive to ship/import. Could get a custome frame built > for the same mone here in Europe! I think that GP's use of the word was partially tongue-in-cheek. There are definitely fewer sizes in the newer frames, but I think he was playing on the use of the word "Compact", as initially used by Giant on the OCR and TCR series. At the time, it was unique. But, it was also modeled on the elite racer body position, as even with tall stems, the handlebar height was seriously below the saddle. I think he had to call them something to differentiate them from the more expensive frames. And they certainly aren't "compact" in the original meaning. There are definitely other designs that have used a taller front end. The use of fewer sizes is what is allowing these to come in for a more attractive price. The question for me is whether the new series of bicycles ride like a Rivendell. (Which, as far as I can tell, they do.) And that green is really off the charts gorgeous, too... - Jim -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Workshops of the iBob's Send In Your Photos! - Here's how: http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines "My nighttime attitude is anyone can run you down and get away with it. That's why I don't even own a bike light or one of those godawful reflective suits. Because if you've put yourself in a position where someone has to see you in order for you to be safe...you've already blown it." -- Neal Stephenson, "Zodiac" --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
Have to say, the paint coming out of Riv these days has been great. The blue Betty, the Black Bombadil (wow!) and now this stunning specimen. That 60cm Sam looks just right. On Jan 6, 3:35 pm, John at Rivendell wrote: > Here are a few pictures of the green Hillbourne, just posted to the > site. > > http://www.rivbike.com/#product=50-700 > > Cheers, > > John at Rivendell > Ulaan Batar Branch Office --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
It is confusing and I probably miss the point. But I'm not sure it's a good to introduce yet another term and at the same time claim to bring cycling back to normal people. I guess it's a bit to do with the fact that expanded as well as compact frame's are design to fit a bigger range of body sizes. But why not just state the actual frame size together with the range of sizes it replace? Seem like Kogswell already use this expanded frame type. But they state the size measured from the center of the BB all the way to the tip of the extended seat tube witch I find better correspond to the old tried and true: http://www.kogswell.com/siteGEOblue.php Never the less it's a lovely allround frame I would sertainly buy one it wasn't so expensive to ship/import. Could get a custome frame built for the same mone here in Europe! On 7 Jan, 16:39, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: > From what I can tell, "expanded" differs from "compact" only in terms > of how we measure the frame size - in other words, it's a matter of > measurement convention rather than a practical difference. Compact > frames are often measured along the seat tube based on where the top- > tube would be if it was horizontal. Therefore, a 56 cm compact frame > may have an actual seat tube that is only 52 cm c-c. If we use the > same sizing scheme to measure the new Hillborne, a 56 cm is actually a > 62 cm, or thereabouts. Suddenly tall people ride a 56 Rivendell, but a > 63 cm Trek/Specialized/Cannondale/Etc. To long-time Rivendell fans, > this new world order is going to take some mental adjustment... Of > course, the bars can probably be raised higher on the 56 Riv than on > most 63 cm bikes. > > Another brand we sell formerly used a "virtual seat tube" measurement > for frame size, but switched to actual seat tube measurement a year > ago. Thus, a 2007 frame designated as a 58 cm compact was in 2008 > designated a 54 cm expanded. They don't use the terms "expanded" and > "compact", just the numbers. Nothing changed but the measurement > technique. Confusing, what? > > Jim > > On Jan 7, 7:02 am, Will wrote: > > > > > It's interesting that the Sam "frame design is 'expanded,' which is > > not at all like 'compact.' The top tube slopes up 6 degrees..." This > > seems to me to be a departure from the usual 2-degree top tube we've > > seen on most other RBW road models. A change in design philosophy? > > > On Jan 6, 11:56 pm, "Doug Peterson" wrote: > > > > Nice color, attractive without screaming "look at me". Classy. > > > Especially > > > like the braze on for the shifter cables. > > > > More photos - rack mount details? Maybe a bike fully racked up? Aw, come > > > on, it'll only take a few hoursplease? > > > > dougP > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com > > > > [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John at Rivendell > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:35 PM > > > To: RBW Owners Bunch > > > Subject: [RBW] Hillbourne With Paint > > > > Here are a few pictures of the green Hillbourne, just posted to the > > > site. > > > >http://www.rivbike.com/#product=50-700 > > > > Cheers, > > > > John at Rivendell > > > Ulaan Batar Branch Office- Dölj citerad text - > > - Visa citerad text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
>From what I can tell, "expanded" differs from "compact" only in terms of how we measure the frame size - in other words, it's a matter of measurement convention rather than a practical difference. Compact frames are often measured along the seat tube based on where the top- tube would be if it was horizontal. Therefore, a 56 cm compact frame may have an actual seat tube that is only 52 cm c-c. If we use the same sizing scheme to measure the new Hillborne, a 56 cm is actually a 62 cm, or thereabouts. Suddenly tall people ride a 56 Rivendell, but a 63 cm Trek/Specialized/Cannondale/Etc. To long-time Rivendell fans, this new world order is going to take some mental adjustment... Of course, the bars can probably be raised higher on the 56 Riv than on most 63 cm bikes. Another brand we sell formerly used a "virtual seat tube" measurement for frame size, but switched to actual seat tube measurement a year ago. Thus, a 2007 frame designated as a 58 cm compact was in 2008 designated a 54 cm expanded. They don't use the terms "expanded" and "compact", just the numbers. Nothing changed but the measurement technique. Confusing, what? Jim On Jan 7, 7:02 am, Will wrote: > It's interesting that the Sam "frame design is 'expanded,' which is > not at all like 'compact.' The top tube slopes up 6 degrees..." This > seems to me to be a departure from the usual 2-degree top tube we've > seen on most other RBW road models. A change in design philosophy? > > On Jan 6, 11:56 pm, "Doug Peterson" wrote: > > > Nice color, attractive without screaming "look at me". Classy. Especially > > like the braze on for the shifter cables. > > > More photos - rack mount details? Maybe a bike fully racked up? Aw, come > > on, it'll only take a few hoursplease? > > > dougP > > > -Original Message- > > From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com > > > [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John at Rivendell > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:35 PM > > To: RBW Owners Bunch > > Subject: [RBW] Hillbourne With Paint > > > Here are a few pictures of the green Hillbourne, just posted to the > > site. > > >http://www.rivbike.com/#product=50-700 > > > Cheers, > > > John at Rivendell > > Ulaan Batar Branch Office --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
The color and frame look great! I'll have to say I was a little envious of all the braze-ons compared to my Bleriot, almost wish I'd waited longer to get the Sam... Oh well! :) On Jan 7, 6:51 am, Rick wrote: > In addition to any structural issues, that 6 degree slope makes it > possible to fit a lot of different folks with just the four sizes. At > least that's what I took away from the description of the 56 set up to > accomodate someone who could ride a 63 AHH. > > But what I like about Sam is all the well-thought out braze-ons that > make it such a mutable and adaptable creature for differing > applications: touring, off-road, or just the wee rack up front. And > the green. The green looks fantastic. > > On Jan 7, 8:02 am, Will wrote: > > > > > It's interesting that the Sam "frame design is 'expanded,' which is > > not at all like 'compact.' The top tube slopes up 6 degrees..." This > > seems to me to be a departure from the usual 2-degree top tube we've > > seen on most other RBW road models. A change in design philosophy? > > > On Jan 6, 11:56 pm, "Doug Peterson" wrote: > > > > Nice color, attractive without screaming "look at me". Classy. > > > Especially > > > like the braze on for the shifter cables. > > > > More photos - rack mount details? Maybe a bike fully racked up? Aw, come > > > on, it'll only take a few hoursplease? > > > > dougP > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com > > > > [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John at Rivendell > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:35 PM > > > To: RBW Owners Bunch > > > Subject: [RBW] Hillbourne With Paint > > > > Here are a few pictures of the green Hillbourne, just posted to the > > > site. > > > >http://www.rivbike.com/#product=50-700 > > > > Cheers, > > > > John at Rivendell > > > Ulaan Batar Branch Office- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
In addition to any structural issues, that 6 degree slope makes it possible to fit a lot of different folks with just the four sizes. At least that's what I took away from the description of the 56 set up to accomodate someone who could ride a 63 AHH. But what I like about Sam is all the well-thought out braze-ons that make it such a mutable and adaptable creature for differing applications: touring, off-road, or just the wee rack up front. And the green. The green looks fantastic. On Jan 7, 8:02 am, Will wrote: > It's interesting that the Sam "frame design is 'expanded,' which is > not at all like 'compact.' The top tube slopes up 6 degrees..." This > seems to me to be a departure from the usual 2-degree top tube we've > seen on most other RBW road models. A change in design philosophy? > > On Jan 6, 11:56 pm, "Doug Peterson" wrote: > > > > > Nice color, attractive without screaming "look at me". Classy. Especially > > like the braze on for the shifter cables. > > > More photos - rack mount details? Maybe a bike fully racked up? Aw, come > > on, it'll only take a few hoursplease? > > > dougP > > > -Original Message- > > From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com > > > [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John at Rivendell > > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:35 PM > > To: RBW Owners Bunch > > Subject: [RBW] Hillbourne With Paint > > > Here are a few pictures of the green Hillbourne, just posted to the > > site. > > >http://www.rivbike.com/#product=50-700 > > > Cheers, > > > John at Rivendell > > Ulaan Batar Branch Office- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
It's interesting that the Sam "frame design is 'expanded,' which is not at all like 'compact.' The top tube slopes up 6 degrees..." This seems to me to be a departure from the usual 2-degree top tube we've seen on most other RBW road models. A change in design philosophy? On Jan 6, 11:56 pm, "Doug Peterson" wrote: > Nice color, attractive without screaming "look at me". Classy. Especially > like the braze on for the shifter cables. > > More photos - rack mount details? Maybe a bike fully racked up? Aw, come > on, it'll only take a few hoursplease? > > dougP > > -Original Message- > From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com > > [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John at Rivendell > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:35 PM > To: RBW Owners Bunch > Subject: [RBW] Hillbourne With Paint > > Here are a few pictures of the green Hillbourne, just posted to the > site. > > http://www.rivbike.com/#product=50-700 > > Cheers, > > John at Rivendell > Ulaan Batar Branch Office --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
Nice color, attractive without screaming "look at me". Classy. Especially like the braze on for the shifter cables. More photos - rack mount details? Maybe a bike fully racked up? Aw, come on, it'll only take a few hoursplease? dougP -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John at Rivendell Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:35 PM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Hillbourne With Paint Here are a few pictures of the green Hillbourne, just posted to the site. http://www.rivbike.com/#product=50-700 Cheers, John at Rivendell Ulaan Batar Branch Office --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 5:35 PM, John at Rivendell wrote: > > Here are a few pictures of the green Hillbourne, just posted to the > site. > > http://www.rivbike.com/#product=50-700 That's a really great green. And i say that as a Redwood owner who really likes that green too. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
CREME fork crown details! I have no vote, but I'm saying that. On Jan 6, 4:53 pm, Mike wrote: > Wow, that looks great. That is one classy looking bike. I like that it > includes mounts for a mini rack. Right now I'm waiting for my > Rambouillet to be repaired and repainted and yet I can't help but want > to reserve one of these. I have pretty much all the parts for it > except wheels just laying around in my basement. > > --mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
Wow, that looks great. That is one classy looking bike. I like that it includes mounts for a mini rack. Right now I'm waiting for my Rambouillet to be repaired and repainted and yet I can't help but want to reserve one of these. I have pretty much all the parts for it except wheels just laying around in my basement. --mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
Very classy look From: John at Rivendell To: RBW Owners Bunch Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2009 5:35:28 PM Subject: [RBW] Hillbourne With Paint Here are a few pictures of the green Hillbourne, just posted to the site. http://www.rivbike.com/#product=50-700 Cheers, John at Rivendell Ulaan Batar Branch Office --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
That's one of the nicest bikes I've ever seen. -Original Message- >From: Esteban >Sent: Jan 6, 2009 3:44 PM >To: RBW Owners Bunch >Subject: [RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint > > >Thanks, John. I love it. Beautiful green. I'm interested to hear >what folks think (especially the folks at RBW, since its their >decision!). > >On Jan 6, 3:35 pm, John at Rivendell wrote: >> Here are a few pictures of the green Hillbourne, just posted to the >> site. >> >> http://www.rivbike.com/#product=50-700 >> >> Cheers, >> >> John at Rivendell >> Ulaan Batar Branch Office >> --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Hillbourne With Paint
Thanks, John. I love it. Beautiful green. I'm interested to hear what folks think (especially the folks at RBW, since its their decision!). On Jan 6, 3:35 pm, John at Rivendell wrote: > Here are a few pictures of the green Hillbourne, just posted to the > site. > > http://www.rivbike.com/#product=50-700 > > Cheers, > > John at Rivendell > Ulaan Batar Branch Office --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
