Re: [RBW] Re: My Cantis cant get no respect.

[Jon BALER]

Velo orange pass hunter fork is described by VO as a "French-style bend"

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Cantis cant get no respect.

[Patrick Moore]

My Matthews has a "French curved" disc fork, ie tight low bend, and a lot
of it. Seems to work fine. I don't know if the curve helps smooth the ride,
but overall the bike is noticeably more smooth over small high frequency
bumps than was the Fargo. Of course, light road tubing throughout compared
to the massive stoutness of the Fargo.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Evan Baird  wrote:

> So now that the church has cannonized disc brakes the question becomes how
> many people are actually riding curvy disc forks? It seemed like Elephant
> had it in the bag, but now they're redesigned their forks so I have to
> assume there were issues. Soma is doing the Champs with disc brakes, but I
> haven't had an opportunity to try the protoype so I can't say exactly how
> much flex it's going to have. The Rawlands were redesigned with straight
> blades when the decision was made to switch to disc brakes, but it seems to
> me that curvy blades on a plus tire would be pretty much pointless.
>
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[RBW] Re: My Cantis cant get no respect.

[Evan Baird]

So now that the church has cannonized disc brakes the question becomes how 
many people are actually riding curvy disc forks? It seemed like Elephant 
had it in the bag, but now they're redesigned their forks so I have to 
assume there were issues. Soma is doing the Champs with disc brakes, but I 
haven't had an opportunity to try the protoype so I can't say exactly how 
much flex it's going to have. The Rawlands were redesigned with straight 
blades when the decision was made to switch to disc brakes, but it seems to 
me that curvy blades on a plus tire would be pretty much pointless.

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[RBW] Re: My Cantis cant get no respect.

[Michael Hechmer]

Yes, I did.
OP

On Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 1:58:40 PM UTC-5, Roy Drinkwater wrote:
>
> Not really pertinent to the question, but did anyone read the title with a 
> Rodney Dangerfield accent?  Just asking... 
>
> Roy H. Drinkwater 
> Lititz, PA 
>

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[RBW] Re: My Cantis cant get no respect.

[Ron Mc]

I ride a lot of greenways and make short panic stops probably weekly 
(always anticipating them).  My brakes on 3 bikes are late Campy Chorus, my 
dialed-in Weinmann CP with Dura-II cartridges, and Paul Touring Cantis.  
All 3 will lock up.  The cantis are on the biggest tires, Barlows, but the 
bike will stop in half the distance of the other two.  Surprisingly, I've 
never had a shudder problem on this bike and it's 62 cm with a Paul Monkey 
brake stop at the bottom of the stem, so a long exposed cable.  All 3 bikes 
have great brakes, but the Paul cantis are so far ahead that you really 
register the feel of their great modulation.  

On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 4:06:25 PM UTC-6, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Probably like a lot of us, I got an email announcing a Jan Hein blog 
> comparing rim & disk brakes.  Now, I have almost no experience with disk 
> brakes but much of what I read makes me think they could be a good choice 
> for some bikes.  I found myself saying, not my experience,  when he 
> compared posted CP and canti brakes. Jan has a phenomenal amount of 
> experience that's hard to challenge, but  My experience of modulation 
> with good, and I emphasize good, cantis has not been any less than with 
> good CP brakes.  The issue of shutter, which he raises with cantis, because 
> they mount lower on the fork than CP brakes, seems, to me, to be related to 
> the skill of the bike builder.
>
> Here's my experience with Cantis vs CP brakes.  My early Saluki, with 
> Paul's cantis offers excellent stopping power and modulation that is just 
> as good as the Pauls's CP brakes on my Rambouilet.  I originally had Pauls 
> posted CP on my tandem with 38 mm tires and converted the frame to cantis 
> in order to go to 45mm and switched to Paul's neo-retros.  There is no 
> difference in modulation, the cantis might offer a minute amount of extra 
> braking (when set up properly).  However a tandem might not be an exact 
> comparison to braking on a single.  The extra mass is huge, but the extra 
> weight in the rear (no offense honey) helps to keep the rear wheel planted 
> and adds to rear braking power.
>
> Michael
>

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[RBW] Re: My Cantis cant get no respect.

[ted]

Michael,

My experience is similar to yours.
I've no experience with disc brakes.
It took me a while to figure out how to set up the canti brakes on my 
Bombadil, but since I did they have been fine. I was one who voted for the 
SImpleOnes to get side/center/dual pivot brakes but I have no complaints 
with the canti arrangement they ended up with. The canti brakes on our 
tandem have served fine. I've read from time to time that folks think RBW 
bikes are overbuilt. Perhaps that's part of the reason why I haven't 
experienced problems with anti brakes on them.
I have used a yoke mounted Raid on my AHH, and I had a fork with posts made 
which I've also used. I don't notice much difference in baking performance 
between those arrangements.
One semi-theoretical advantage of CP brakes I do believe in though, the 
distance from the pivot to the brake pad seems longer on side/center pulls 
so the vertical movement and change in angle as the pad wears should be 
less than with canti's.

On a tangent to all this, I noticed the other day that you can select 4 
different flavors (neglecting the "rinko" version) of Compass CP brakes 
now. With normal or rack mounting bolts, and with or without 'yoke'. Does 
that mean Jan is now selling mounting yokes so those without brazed on 
posts can use his brakes without scrounging up old Mafac Raid yokes?



On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 2:06:25 PM UTC-8, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Probably like a lot of us, I got an email announcing a Jan Hein blog 
> comparing rim & disk brakes.  Now, I have almost no experience with disk 
> brakes but much of what I read makes me think they could be a good choice 
> for some bikes.  I found myself saying, not my experience,  when he 
> compared posted CP and canti brakes. Jan has a phenomenal amount of 
> experience that's hard to challenge, but  My experience of modulation 
> with good, and I emphasize good, cantis has not been any less than with 
> good CP brakes.  The issue of shutter, which he raises with cantis, because 
> they mount lower on the fork than CP brakes, seems, to me, to be related to 
> the skill of the bike builder.
>
> Here's my experience with Cantis vs CP brakes.  My early Saluki, with 
> Paul's cantis offers excellent stopping power and modulation that is just 
> as good as the Pauls's CP brakes on my Rambouilet.  I originally had Pauls 
> posted CP on my tandem with 38 mm tires and converted the frame to cantis 
> in order to go to 45mm and switched to Paul's neo-retros.  There is no 
> difference in modulation, the cantis might offer a minute amount of extra 
> braking (when set up properly).  However a tandem might not be an exact 
> comparison to braking on a single.  The extra mass is huge, but the extra 
> weight in the rear (no offense honey) helps to keep the rear wheel planted 
> and adds to rear braking power.
>
> Michael
>

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[RBW] Re: My Cantis cant get no respect.

[Matt B.]

Here here!  Got cantilevers on all my bikes and definitely don't feel like 
I'm missing anything brakes-wise.  I couldn't imagine needing more stopping 
power or convenience of set-up and maintenance.  Not saying brazed 
centerpulls, hydraulic discs, or whatnot shouldn't be the bees knees for 
someone else ;)

On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 at 5:06:25 PM UTC-5, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Probably like a lot of us, I got an email announcing a Jan Hein blog 
> comparing rim & disk brakes.  Now, I have almost no experience with disk 
> brakes but much of what I read makes me think they could be a good choice 
> for some bikes.  I found myself saying, not my experience,  when he 
> compared posted CP and canti brakes. Jan has a phenomenal amount of 
> experience that's hard to challenge, but  My experience of modulation 
> with good, and I emphasize good, cantis has not been any less than with 
> good CP brakes.  The issue of shutter, which he raises with cantis, because 
> they mount lower on the fork than CP brakes, seems, to me, to be related to 
> the skill of the bike builder.
>
> Here's my experience with Cantis vs CP brakes.  My early Saluki, with 
> Paul's cantis offers excellent stopping power and modulation that is just 
> as good as the Pauls's CP brakes on my Rambouilet.  I originally had Pauls 
> posted CP on my tandem with 38 mm tires and converted the frame to cantis 
> in order to go to 45mm and switched to Paul's neo-retros.  There is no 
> difference in modulation, the cantis might offer a minute amount of extra 
> braking (when set up properly).  However a tandem might not be an exact 
> comparison to braking on a single.  The extra mass is huge, but the extra 
> weight in the rear (no offense honey) helps to keep the rear wheel planted 
> and adds to rear braking power.
>
> Michael
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Cantis cant get no respect.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 01/10/2017 05:36 PM, Garth wrote:


Yes, canti brakes are just fine with me too. I can see why some may 
have a difficult time setting them up, since they are so adjustable.  
This adjustability to some is a curse, to others wonderful .  It's 
like a lump of clay to one is a mess while to another a masterpiece. 
The web is a such a funny place with all these "reviews", not unlike a 
"customer service" help line, which often turn into a place to vent 
dissatisfaction/disappointment, while those satisfied are so perfectly 
satisfied they give it no thought.So I am quite sure there are 
many more satisfied canti brake users than appears in print.


Depends entirely on whether you have a skilled mechanic available who 
knows how to set cantilevers up.  I've seen innumerable postings on the 
forums, mostly from cyclocross people, to the effect that it is 
impossible to correctly set up a cantilever brake so that it does not 
squeal and it does not shudder.


Mine are among the challenging ones (smooth-post Shimano Deore XTs, 
where when you loosen the mounting bolt the pad has as many degrees of 
freedom as a fried chicken wing when you twist the "wing" part free from 
the "leg" part and nothing's holding it but the skin) and yet, although 
I have had my share of grossly incompetent mechanics work on them and 
either grossly misadjust them or give up in despair, I've also had them 
adjusted by Cycles Ed from Ashland VA. (If you've attended the Peanut 
Tour or Bike Virginia you probably know Cycles Ed.)


Ed has worked on those brakes when I had them on my Saluki, and he's 
worked on those brakes when I moved them over to the MAP.  And Ed has 
been able to adjust them so they don't squeal or misbehave in any way.  
As I tell those people, if Ed can do it and they cannot, the difference 
is in their skill or lack of it, not in the brakes.


However, both those bikes are steel, with steel forks and steel steerers 
-- not cyclocross bikes with carbon forks.   I'm willing to concede, it 
may be that 'cross bikes with carbon forks can't be fixed so that they 
don't shudder.



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[RBW] Re: My Cantis cant get no respect.

[Garth]

Yes, canti brakes are just fine with me too. I can see why some may have a 
difficult time setting them up, since they are so adjustable.  This 
adjustability to some is a curse, to others wonderful .  It's like a lump 
of clay to one is a mess while to another a masterpiece. The web is a such 
a funny place with all these "reviews", not unlike a "customer service" 
help line, which often turn into a place to vent 
dissatisfaction/disappointment, while those satisfied are so perfectly 
satisfied they give it no thought.So I am quite sure there are many 
more satisfied canti brake users than appears in print.   

  

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