[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Historically, the only bikes which have/had Rivendell headbadges were the 
custom frames or the "Generation 1" Rivendells (Longlow, Road, AllRounder, 
etc... frames).  With the introduction of the Atlantis, they all had 
model-specific headbadges - e.g. Atlantis, Rambouillet, Romulus, Quickbeam. 

The headbadge for the San Marcos is SOMA-specific, though I think they are 
using different ones for most of their other models - a stylized Rising Sun 
with the SOMA logo below. The one which appears on their site. 

>From the beginning, Grant was pretty clear about his role in its design, 
but also about the fact it was a SOMA Fab project.  The chainstay used to 
state explicity it was a GP design.  

Arguably, better than a headbadge, you could get the larger size and end up 
with the now-wholly-Riv-identifed double top tube - as Soma states:

"The 59 and 63cm have that Rivendell double top tube to restore the 
triangulation lost with the tall top tube."

I hadn't actually seen any commentary on the web, but then again, haven't 
really sought it. 

- Jim / cyclofiend.com

On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 12:17:25 PM UTC-7, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> I’m looking at getting a San Marcos from Rivendell soon. Of course, I 
> would REALLY prefer a Roadeo, if only I could find another $1,300. But I 
> digress.
>
> As a big Rivendell fan, I have to say that the one annoying thing about 
> the San Marcos is the lack of anything (other than the very small print on 
> the chainstay) that mentions that it is a Rivendell. Well, we can’t do 
> anything about the decals (they have clear-coat over them) but what about 
> the headbadge? Couldn’t Riv put a Rivendell headbadge on the San Marcos for 
> those frames purchased from Riv HQ and fully assembled by Rivendell elves 
> with all parts purchased from Rivendell?
>
> Sounds petty, I know. But reading the web, I am not the only one with this 
> petty hang-up. A Rivendell headbadge could be a big incentive for people to 
> buy the San Marcos from Rivendell instead of Amazon (or wherever).
>
> I hear that a blow dryer will soften up the glue and allow the San Marcos 
> headbadge to be easily removed and replaced with a Rivendell one.  J  Of 
> course, I don’t know what the Riv contract with Soma might say about this.
>
> Doug
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Minh]

What's the motiviation in this case?  Is this a case of buying a Camaro but 
wanting a Firebird?  I've seen some people complain that the model specific 
bikes don't have enough Rivendell badging either.  The Roadeo doesn't have 
an RBW badge either!


I think R`BW have been pretty consistent that only the customs get full RBW 
badging.  


On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:17:25 PM UTC-4, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> I’m looking at getting a San Marcos from Rivendell soon. Of course, I 
> would REALLY prefer a Roadeo, if only I could find another $1,300. But I 
> digress.
>
> As a big Rivendell fan, I have to say that the one annoying thing about 
> the San Marcos is the lack of anything (other than the very small print on 
> the chainstay) that mentions that it is a Rivendell. Well, we can’t do 
> anything about the decals (they have clear-coat over them) but what about 
> the headbadge? Couldn’t Riv put a Rivendell headbadge on the San Marcos for 
> those frames purchased from Riv HQ and fully assembled by Rivendell elves 
> with all parts purchased from Rivendell?
>
> Sounds petty, I know. But reading the web, I am not the only one with this 
> petty hang-up. A Rivendell headbadge could be a big incentive for people to 
> buy the San Marcos from Rivendell instead of Amazon (or wherever).
>
> I hear that a blow dryer will soften up the glue and allow the San Marcos 
> headbadge to be easily removed and replaced with a Rivendell one.  J  Of 
> course, I don’t know what the Riv contract with Soma might say about this.
>
> Doug
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Joe Bernard]

The San Marcos SOMA badge is different from other SOMA frames. I think it's 
way cool. 

On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 2:29:41 PM UTC-7, Minh wrote:

> What's the motiviation in this case?  Is this a case of buying a Camaro 
> but wanting a Firebird?  I've seen some people complain that the model 
> specific bikes don't have enough Rivendell badging either.  The Roadeo 
> doesn't have an RBW badge either!
>
>
> I think R`BW have been pretty consistent that only the customs get full 
> RBW badging.  
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:17:25 PM UTC-4, Doug Williams wrote:
>>
>> I’m looking at getting a San Marcos from Rivendell soon. Of course, I 
>> would REALLY prefer a Roadeo, if only I could find another $1,300. But I 
>> digress.
>>
>> As a big Rivendell fan, I have to say that the one annoying thing about 
>> the San Marcos is the lack of anything (other than the very small print on 
>> the chainstay) that mentions that it is a Rivendell. Well, we can’t do 
>> anything about the decals (they have clear-coat over them) but what about 
>> the headbadge? Couldn’t Riv put a Rivendell headbadge on the San Marcos for 
>> those frames purchased from Riv HQ and fully assembled by Rivendell elves 
>> with all parts purchased from Rivendell?
>>
>> Sounds petty, I know. But reading the web, I am not the only one with 
>> this petty hang-up. A Rivendell headbadge could be a big incentive for 
>> people to buy the San Marcos from Rivendell instead of Amazon (or wherever).
>>
>> I hear that a blow dryer will soften up the glue and allow the San Marcos 
>> headbadge to be easily removed and replaced with a Rivendell one.  J  Of 
>> course, I don’t know what the Riv contract with Soma might say about this.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

I understand that GP designed the San Marcos for Soma and allowed his 
personal name to be associated with that model for a fee. In simplest 
terms, he was hired as a contractor to provide a design. Usually design 
contracts don't permit the contractor to cash his check, then slap a 
different label on the finished product, and market it under a different 
brand.

On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 2:17:25 PM UTC-5, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> I’m looking at getting a San Marcos from Rivendell soon. Of course, I 
> would REALLY prefer a Roadeo, if only I could find another $1,300. But I 
> digress.
>
> As a big Rivendell fan, I have to say that the one annoying thing about 
> the San Marcos is the lack of anything (other than the very small print on 
> the chainstay) that mentions that it is a Rivendell. Well, we can’t do 
> anything about the decals (they have clear-coat over them) but what about 
> the headbadge? Couldn’t Riv put a Rivendell headbadge on the San Marcos for 
> those frames purchased from Riv HQ and fully assembled by Rivendell elves 
> with all parts purchased from Rivendell?
>
> Sounds petty, I know. But reading the web, I am not the only one with this 
> petty hang-up. A Rivendell headbadge could be a big incentive for people to 
> buy the San Marcos from Rivendell instead of Amazon (or wherever).
>
> I hear that a blow dryer will soften up the glue and allow the San Marcos 
> headbadge to be easily removed and replaced with a Rivendell one.  J  Of 
> course, I don’t know what the Riv contract with Soma might say about this.
>
> Doug
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[jpp]

I feel like they originally mentioned possibly rebadging them AMOS to 
differentiate those that were bought through them.   

On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:17:25 PM UTC-4, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> I’m looking at getting a San Marcos from Rivendell soon. Of course, I 
> would REALLY prefer a Roadeo, if only I could find another $1,300. But I 
> digress.
>
> As a big Rivendell fan, I have to say that the one annoying thing about 
> the San Marcos is the lack of anything (other than the very small print on 
> the chainstay) that mentions that it is a Rivendell. Well, we can’t do 
> anything about the decals (they have clear-coat over them) but what about 
> the headbadge? Couldn’t Riv put a Rivendell headbadge on the San Marcos for 
> those frames purchased from Riv HQ and fully assembled by Rivendell elves 
> with all parts purchased from Rivendell?
>
> Sounds petty, I know. But reading the web, I am not the only one with this 
> petty hang-up. A Rivendell headbadge could be a big incentive for people to 
> buy the San Marcos from Rivendell instead of Amazon (or wherever).
>
> I hear that a blow dryer will soften up the glue and allow the San Marcos 
> headbadge to be easily removed and replaced with a Rivendell one.  J  Of 
> course, I don’t know what the Riv contract with Soma might say about this.
>
> Doug
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Michael]

>
> Just get a Sam. There is only a 325$ difference between them for the 
> frames. If you are gonna get a Riv-build, they are still only about 325 
> different total for the complete bikes. Problem solved. You can get a Riv 
> for the same price basically.
> The Sam has a much prettier curve to the fork, and better paint job too. 
> More eyelets, etc. Definitely worht waiting to save up 325 more bucks.
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Bryan]

I would say just get the bike and put a bunch of miles on it. You'll forget 
all about the headbadge. Besides, I agree that the SOMA headbadge looks 
great. 

Bryan 

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Doug Williams]

I considered a Sam. I agree that it is much more handsome than the Marcos. 
But it is a little heavier than what I'm looking for. I already have 
(non-Riv) bike that fits the cargo and loaded touring bill. I'm looking for 
something with more zip, but short of a racing bike.

On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 8:25:12 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:

> Just get a Sam. There is only a 325$ difference between them for the 
>> frames. If you are gonna get a Riv-build, they are still only about 325 
>> different total for the complete bikes. Problem solved. You can get a Riv 
>> for the same price basically.
>> The Sam has a much prettier curve to the fork, and better paint job too. 
>> More eyelets, etc. Definitely worht waiting to save up 325 more bucks.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Doug Williams]

I'm sure that is all true, but the Roadeo headbadge clearly says "Rivendell 
Bicycle Works" around the edges. Yes, the big print in the middle only says 
"Roadeo" but Rivendell is clearly on there. Something like that for the San 
Marcos would be nice.
On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 2:29:41 PM UTC-7, Minh wrote:
>
> What's the motiviation in this case?  Is this a case of buying a Camaro 
> but wanting a Firebird?  I've seen some people complain that the model 
> specific bikes don't have enough Rivendell badging either.  The Roadeo 
> doesn't have an RBW badge either!
>
>
> I think R`BW have been pretty consistent that only the customs get full 
> RBW badging.  
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:17:25 PM UTC-4, Doug Williams wrote:
>>
>> I’m looking at getting a San Marcos from Rivendell soon. Of course, I 
>> would REALLY prefer a Roadeo, if only I could find another $1,300. But I 
>> digress.
>>
>> As a big Rivendell fan, I have to say that the one annoying thing about 
>> the San Marcos is the lack of anything (other than the very small print on 
>> the chainstay) that mentions that it is a Rivendell. Well, we can’t do 
>> anything about the decals (they have clear-coat over them) but what about 
>> the headbadge? Couldn’t Riv put a Rivendell headbadge on the San Marcos for 
>> those frames purchased from Riv HQ and fully assembled by Rivendell elves 
>> with all parts purchased from Rivendell?
>>
>> Sounds petty, I know. But reading the web, I am not the only one with 
>> this petty hang-up. A Rivendell headbadge could be a big incentive for 
>> people to buy the San Marcos from Rivendell instead of Amazon (or wherever).
>>
>> I hear that a blow dryer will soften up the glue and allow the San Marcos 
>> headbadge to be easily removed and replaced with a Rivendell one.  J  Of 
>> course, I don’t know what the Riv contract with Soma might say about this.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Tonester]

I feel you on this, I drove a Porsche 914 for years and got a lot of crap 
from the Porsche crowds. (914 was sold everywhere else as a VW).  My '82 
Stumpjumper has a "Designed by Tim Neenon" on the chainstay which I think 
is uber-cool.

That said, with the bike built up those who care about these things would 
know that facts already, and those that don't care - well, don't care. 
 Pearls before swine, I say.

Proud of my Atlantis with the little "by rivendell" decals.

Tony

On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 2:29:41 PM UTC-7, Minh wrote:
>
> What's the motiviation in this case?  Is this a case of buying a Camaro 
> but wanting a Firebird?  I've seen some people complain that the model 
> specific bikes don't have enough Rivendell badging either.  The Roadeo 
> doesn't have an RBW badge either!
>
>
> I think R`BW have been pretty consistent that only the customs get full 
> RBW badging.  
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:17:25 PM UTC-4, Doug Williams wrote:
>>
>> I’m looking at getting a San Marcos from Rivendell soon. Of course, I 
>> would REALLY prefer a Roadeo, if only I could find another $1,300. But I 
>> digress.
>>
>> As a big Rivendell fan, I have to say that the one annoying thing about 
>> the San Marcos is the lack of anything (other than the very small print on 
>> the chainstay) that mentions that it is a Rivendell. Well, we can’t do 
>> anything about the decals (they have clear-coat over them) but what about 
>> the headbadge? Couldn’t Riv put a Rivendell headbadge on the San Marcos for 
>> those frames purchased from Riv HQ and fully assembled by Rivendell elves 
>> with all parts purchased from Rivendell?
>>
>> Sounds petty, I know. But reading the web, I am not the only one with 
>> this petty hang-up. A Rivendell headbadge could be a big incentive for 
>> people to buy the San Marcos from Rivendell instead of Amazon (or wherever).
>>
>> I hear that a blow dryer will soften up the glue and allow the San Marcos 
>> headbadge to be easily removed and replaced with a Rivendell one.  J  Of 
>> course, I don’t know what the Riv contract with Soma might say about this.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[RJM]

I was in the same boat but popped for the Roadeo. I sold a bunch of other 
stuff I had laying around taking up space on ebay and the like so I could 
get the frame. Now I am doing the same thing to get parts to build up the 
Roadeo. I was looking at the San Marcos too and almost decided to buy that, 
it looks like a great frameset and I am sure it would make a very good 
bike.  I had a long internal conversation with myself and decided that the 
Roadeo was the bike I really wanted and in the end I don't think I would be 
totally happy going that route. I have lusted after a roadeo in orange for 
years now and just couldn't convince myself that saving that amount and 
getting something different was going to make me happy.  The end result is 
that I have the frame I really want and less clutter in the house.
 
People who have the San Marcos really seem to like it though. I don't think 
the fact that the bike not saying "rivendell" on it is a problem though. 
Once you are riding it, you aren't looking at the headbadge anyway and the 
ride is going to give you a smile either way.  There are some differences 
between it and the Roadeo though, especially in my size. It was a choice 
between 650b wheels on the SM vs 700 for the Roadeo, top tube sloping 
differences, fork curve/look, contrasting headtube ect. 
 

On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 10:44:32 PM UTC-5, Doug Williams wrote:

> I considered a Sam. I agree that it is much more handsome than the Marcos. 
> But it is a little heavier than what I'm looking for. I already have 
> (non-Riv) bike that fits the cargo and loaded touring bill. I'm looking for 
> something with more zip, but short of a racing bike.
>
> On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 8:25:12 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:
>
>> Just get a Sam. There is only a 325$ difference between them for the 
>>> frames. If you are gonna get a Riv-build, they are still only about 325 
>>> different total for the complete bikes. Problem solved. You can get a Riv 
>>> for the same price basically.
>>> The Sam has a much prettier curve to the fork, and better paint job too. 
>>> More eyelets, etc. Definitely worht waiting to save up 325 more bucks.
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Garth]

Stating the obvious here , it's a Soma Brand frame, not a Rivendell !

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Jeremy Till]

As I understand it, this isn't the first time that GP has designed a bike 
for another maker concurrently with Riv and then marketed them through Riv 
as well, the other most obvious examples being the Herons, dating from 
around the turn of the century.  My wife recently bought one of these 
frames used, and as far as I can tell, it doesn't make any mention of being 
designed by GP anywhere on it.  Furthermore, it has completely different 
lugs and geo (no gentle TT slope, less pronounced headtube extension).  But 
still, sitting next to my Quickbeam, it's pretty easy to see the family 
resemblance!  

The San Marcos even uses some/all of the Riv lugs, doesn't it?

Another thing is, if you get a bike from Riv, you're not just getting the 
frame design, you're getting a bike sized by them and built up using their 
preferred parts, which ends up being pretty distinctive.  To people in the 
know, even if it doesn't say Rivendell anywhere on it, it's pretty easy to 
see where it came from.  Check out the Soma Fab blog and flickr stream, 
you'll see plenty of San Marcos' built up by other shops, and with a lot of 
them it's pretty clear they didn't come from Riv.  Sized much smaller (bars 
well below seat in current roadie fashion), much different component spec 
with brifters, short reach handlebars, etc.  

Plus I really like the existing San Marcos headbadge. Having seen it it 
person, it looks amazing!

On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 12:17:25 PM UTC-7, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> I’m looking at getting a San Marcos from Rivendell soon. Of course, I 
> would REALLY prefer a Roadeo, if only I could find another $1,300. But I 
> digress.
>
> As a big Rivendell fan, I have to say that the one annoying thing about 
> the San Marcos is the lack of anything (other than the very small print on 
> the chainstay) that mentions that it is a Rivendell. Well, we can’t do 
> anything about the decals (they have clear-coat over them) but what about 
> the headbadge? Couldn’t Riv put a Rivendell headbadge on the San Marcos for 
> those frames purchased from Riv HQ and fully assembled by Rivendell elves 
> with all parts purchased from Rivendell?
>
> Sounds petty, I know. But reading the web, I am not the only one with this 
> petty hang-up. A Rivendell headbadge could be a big incentive for people to 
> buy the San Marcos from Rivendell instead of Amazon (or wherever).
>
> I hear that a blow dryer will soften up the glue and allow the San Marcos 
> headbadge to be easily removed and replaced with a Rivendell one.  J  Of 
> course, I don’t know what the Riv contract with Soma might say about this.
>
> Doug
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[EGNolan]

Something that I don't think has been mentioned is liability. If Rivendell 
isn't sourcing these, isn't making much money per unit and a lot of these 
are being sold ( I assume more are sold than a normal Riv because of the 
widespread reach of Merry Sales compared to Riv) then it makes more sense 
for Rivendell to allow Soma to be on the downtube and take ownership of all 
liability. When you put your name on something, you accept liability should 
something happen, it doesn't always make sense to do that.  Zoom in on the 
photo here, this years ago: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rivendell-Reader-Issue-Number-10-/170949581543?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cd639ae7
 
Best,
Eric
Indpls

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Brewster Fong]

On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 2:41:04 PM UTC-7, Tonester wrote: 
>
> I feel you on this, I drove a Porsche 914 for years and got a lot of crap 
> from the Porsche crowds. (914 was sold everywhere else as a VW).  

 
Haha, now if you had a 914-6, you could have avoided alot of grief :)  
Btw, a buddy had a 914 2.0 and it was a hoot to drive. Despite being 
underpowered, it handled really well and could keep up with most cars of 
its time. 
 

> My '82 Stumpjumper has a "Designed by Tim Neenon" on the chainstay which I 
> think is uber-cool.

 
Agree, I recently picked up a 90s litespeed classic for cheap - $425 
including serotta ti headsup adapter!  What's great is that all the decals 
have been removed saved a small one on the left/non-drive chainstay which 
is the signature of W. David Lynskey! The signature just makes the bike 
look cool!  It also doesn't hurt that the frame has the "classic european 
geometry" so the bike handles really well! Good Luck!

>
> That said, with the bike built up those who care about these things would 
> know that facts already, and those that don't care - well, don't care. 
>  Pearls before swine, I say.
>
 

>
> Proud of my Atlantis with the little "by rivendell" decals.
>
> Tony
>
> On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 2:29:41 PM UTC-7, Minh wrote: 
>>
>> What's the motiviation in this case?  Is this a case of buying a Camaro 
>> but wanting a Firebird?  I've seen some people complain that the model 
>> specific bikes don't have enough Rivendell badging either.  The Roadeo 
>> doesn't have an RBW badge either!
>>
>>
>> I think R`BW have been pretty consistent that only the customs get full 
>> RBW badging.  
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:17:25 PM UTC-4, Doug Williams wrote: 
>>>
>>> I’m looking at getting a San Marcos from Rivendell soon. Of course, I 
>>> would REALLY prefer a Roadeo, if only I could find another $1,300. But I 
>>> digress.
>>>
>>> As a big Rivendell fan, I have to say that the one annoying thing about 
>>> the San Marcos is the lack of anything (other than the very small print on 
>>> the chainstay) that mentions that it is a Rivendell. Well, we can’t do 
>>> anything about the decals (they have clear-coat over them) but what about 
>>> the headbadge? Couldn’t Riv put a Rivendell headbadge on the San Marcos for 
>>> those frames purchased from Riv HQ and fully assembled by Rivendell elves 
>>> with all parts purchased from Rivendell?
>>>
>>> Sounds petty, I know. But reading the web, I am not the only one with 
>>> this petty hang-up. A Rivendell headbadge could be a big incentive for 
>>> people to buy the San Marcos from Rivendell instead of Amazon (or wherever).
>>>
>>> I hear that a blow dryer will soften up the glue and allow the San 
>>> Marcos headbadge to be easily removed and replaced with a Rivendell one. 
>>>  J  Of course, I don’t know what the Riv contract with Soma might say 
>>> about this.
>>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Joe Bernard]

This thread is making me want Mark's BOM *really bad*. It duplicates my 
Bleriot almost down to the color, and I don't have the money! Grrr...

On Tuesday, April 30, 2013 12:17:25 PM UTC-7, Doug Williams wrote:

> I’m looking at getting a San Marcos from Rivendell soon. Of course, I 
> would REALLY prefer a Roadeo, if only I could find another $1,300. But I 
> digress.
>
> As a big Rivendell fan, I have to say that the one annoying thing about 
> the San Marcos is the lack of anything (other than the very small print on 
> the chainstay) that mentions that it is a Rivendell. Well, we can’t do 
> anything about the decals (they have clear-coat over them) but what about 
> the headbadge? Couldn’t Riv put a Rivendell headbadge on the San Marcos for 
> those frames purchased from Riv HQ and fully assembled by Rivendell elves 
> with all parts purchased from Rivendell?
>
> Sounds petty, I know. But reading the web, I am not the only one with this 
> petty hang-up. A Rivendell headbadge could be a big incentive for people to 
> buy the San Marcos from Rivendell instead of Amazon (or wherever).
>
> I hear that a blow dryer will soften up the glue and allow the San Marcos 
> headbadge to be easily removed and replaced with a Rivendell one.  J  Of 
> course, I don’t know what the Riv contract with Soma might say about this.
>
> Doug
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Doug Williams]

 

Well, to close out this topic, I should say that Grant wrote me a kind 
email saying that the contract with Soma doesn’t allow Riv to mess with the 
San Marcos. That’s what I expected, really. The best advice from this list 
was to “Just Ride” the San Marcos and my feelings about the lack of 
“Rivendellness” of the bike would melt away with the miles. I think that is 
what I will do.

Looking logically at the difference between the San Marcos and the Roadeo, 
it is hard to justify paying $1,300 more for the Roadeo just because it is 
a better looking bike and a “true Rivendell”. Also, I tell myself that I 
won’t put a rack on the bike…but then I just might. A rack would allow me 
to ride the San Marcos instead of my pig Novara Safari for weekend trip. I 
could always remove the rack before my next “fast” ride.

Still…which headbadge do you prefer? The headbadge with the beautiful 
winding open road trailing into the sunset or the headbadge with the Sutro 
Tower television and radio transmission antennae? Not a tough call for me. 
For me at least, the Roadeo is the more beautiful bike and the San Marcos 
is the more practical bike.

I guess I’ll keep a magnifying glass to read the fine print on the 
chainstay and a laminated copy of my invoice in my saddlebag so I can prove 
that my San Marcos is a “True Rivendell”.  J
But then I think I need to test ride the Roadeo and the AHH before I place 
my order just to make sure.
Doug

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Fai Mao]

I am fighting the concept of a rack on my San Marcos as well. Mine is built 
up like such a hot-rod exercise bike with the Vento Reaction Wheels and 10 
speed Campy Flatbar stuff that Feel a rack just make it like everything 
else I ride. And then I want to stop at the store on the way back home buy 
a box of something.



On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 5:17:25 AM UTC+10, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> I’m looking at getting a San Marcos from Rivendell soon. Of course, I 
> would REALLY prefer a Roadeo, if only I could find another $1,300. But I 
> digress.
>
> As a big Rivendell fan, I have to say that the one annoying thing about 
> the San Marcos is the lack of anything (other than the very small print on 
> the chainstay) that mentions that it is a Rivendell. Well, we can’t do 
> anything about the decals (they have clear-coat over them) but what about 
> the headbadge? Couldn’t Riv put a Rivendell headbadge on the San Marcos for 
> those frames purchased from Riv HQ and fully assembled by Rivendell elves 
> with all parts purchased from Rivendell?
>
> Sounds petty, I know. But reading the web, I am not the only one with this 
> petty hang-up. A Rivendell headbadge could be a big incentive for people to 
> buy the San Marcos from Rivendell instead of Amazon (or wherever).
>
> I hear that a blow dryer will soften up the glue and allow the San Marcos 
> headbadge to be easily removed and replaced with a Rivendell one.  J  Of 
> course, I don’t know what the Riv contract with Soma might say about this.
>
> Doug
>

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Garth]

It's amazing to me how a "label", influences how I feel about a given 
product.  I personally prefer no labels on a bicycle if given a choice. 
When I had my Bombadil repainted, I had it done without labels.  I know the 
origin of the frame, the frame knows the origin of the frame, and Rivendell 
knows the origin of the frame. 

 I remember being enamored with stickers as a child. Getting some STP 
stickers from the Service Station (back when gas stations were owned and 
run by the same one or two people and actually offered "real car service") 
was a grand thing !  Getting the "big brand" named stickers and products 
was THE thing, to be associated them.  It's all psychological of course, 
and it's alright. I call it today "permission slips"  anything that 
allows you to feel better about yourself within the realms of your belief 
system, is a permission slip. 

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[hsmitham]

Doug,

My Brother purchased a SOMA San Marcos off the web for $775.00 and built it 
up with 11 speed Campy Athena, and Velo-Orange wheels. He did have to 
purchase the the Tektro 559's for increased reach. He has mounted racks, 
and trunk bags and has since mounted Longboard fenders. He loves the bike 
and loves the way it handles. When he spoke to Riv they explained to him 
that the San Marcos is the closest frame set they sell that emulates the 
ride quality of the Roadeo.





Incidentally, he just recently purchased a Surly pacer and built it up with 
10 speed Campy! He apparently loves Campy :-) So his rational was he wanted 
a bike unloaded. I on the other hand purchased a A.A.H. built up by Riv 
with their mix of parts. My second bike will be a Trek 660 built with Campy 
10 speed ( It runs in the family) meant to ride with a minimal load and on 
the road and light dirt roads. 

I think the most important criteria is what are you comfortable spending 
and what will give you long term happiness? My Hilsen has small lettering 
on the seat tube with "Rivendell"  the down tube in large letters has "A. 
Homer. Hilsen" though it doesn't scream "Rivendell" I love it. If it looks 
like a Riv, rides like a Riv then it's a Riv. Lastly, I was riding up a 
road on my way back home in my neighborhood and a fellow yells "hey is that 
a Rivendell?" I turned back with a smile and confirmed his suspicion.

Like Jim Thill I like the Soma San Marcos headbadge it's awesome, and I 
also dig the Riv custom headbadge both hansome.

Good luck on your decision either frame set will bring you a lot of 
enjoyment.

Hugh
Sunland, CA

On Monday, May 6, 2013 12:48:18 PM UTC-7, Doug Williams wrote:
>
> Well, to close out this topic, I should say that Grant wrote me a kind 
> email saying that the contract with Soma doesn’t allow Riv to mess with the 
> San Marcos. That’s what I expected, really. The best advice from this list 
> was to “Just Ride” the San Marcos and my feelings about the lack of 
> “Rivendellness” of the bike would melt away with the miles. I think that is 
> what I will do.
>
> Looking logically at the difference between the San Marcos and the Roadeo, 
> it is hard to justify paying $1,300 more for the Roadeo just because it is 
> a better looking bike and a “true Rivendell”. Also, I tell myself that I 
> won’t put a rack on the bike…but then I just might. A rack would allow me 
> to ride the San Marcos instead of my pig Novara Safari for weekend trip. I 
> could always remove the rack before my next “fast” ride.
>
> Still…which headbadge do you prefer? The headbadge with the beautiful 
> winding open road trailing into the sunset or the headbadge with the Sutro 
> Tower television and radio transmission antennae? Not a tough call for me. 
> For me at least, the Roadeo is the more beautiful bike and the San Marcos 
> is the more practical bike.
>
> I guess I’ll keep a magnifying glass to read the fine print on the 
> chainstay and a laminated copy of my invoice in my saddlebag so I can prove 
> that my San Marcos is a “True Rivendell”.  J
> But then I think I need to test ride the Roadeo and the AHH before I place 
> my order just to make sure.
> Doug
>  

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[RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[LBleriot]

On Thursday, May 9, 2013 2:50:51 AM UTC-4, hsmitham wrote: 
>
>  When he spoke to Riv they explained to him that the San Marcos is the 
> closest frame set they sell that emulates the ride quality of the Roadeo.
>  
>
This is an interesting quote.  I own a Roadeo and owned a Ram.  I think 
that the San Marcos rides very similarly to the Ram.  Comfy and sure footed 
like the Ram, but not a "spry" as the Roadeo.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[qwerty]

On 5/2/13, EGNolan  wrote:
> Something that I don't think has been mentioned is liability. If Rivendell
> isn't sourcing these, isn't making much money per unit and a lot of these
> are being sold ( I assume more are sold than a normal Riv because of the
> widespread reach of Merry Sales compared to Riv) then it makes more sense
> for Rivendell to allow Soma to be on the downtube and take ownership of all
>
> liability. When you put your name on something, you accept liability should
>
> something happen, it doesn't always make sense to do that.  Zoom in on the
> photo here, this years ago:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rivendell-Reader-Issue-Number-10-/170949581543?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cd639ae7
>
> Best,
> Eric
> Indpls
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Bruce Herbitter]

I hear ya.  Since no bike frames are actually fabricated at Walnut Creek,
you could think of your bike as a Panasonic, or a Toyo, or a Waterford, or
a Maxway, or a Curt, or a Joe or a Mark, etc. They all share a designer and
basic principles though, the same ones shared by the San Marcos. So "label"
it in your mind as you like, but enjoy the ride regardless.

Speaking of actual labels, when I repainted a Road two years ago, it was
important to me to find the correct decal set. Just because I really liked
how they looked on the bike's down tube . I also got with Reynolds for new
tubing decals. They did not have the same ones originally used (French) but
they sent me scans of every old decal they still had available and I found
something suitable. They were nice people to deal with btw.


On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 6:17 AM, Garth  wrote:

> It's amazing to me how a "label", influences how I feel about a given
> product.  I personally prefer no labels on a bicycle if given a choice.
> When I had my Bombadil repainted, I had it done without labels.  I know the
> origin of the frame, the frame knows the origin of the frame, and Rivendell
> knows the origin of the frame.
>
>  I remember being enamored with stickers as a child. Getting some STP
> stickers from the Service Station (back when gas stations were owned and
> run by the same one or two people and actually offered "real car service")
> was a grand thing !  Getting the "big brand" named stickers and products
> was THE thing, to be associated them.  It's all psychological of course,
> and it's alright. I call it today "permission slips"  anything that
> allows you to feel better about yourself within the realms of your belief
> system, is a permission slip.
>
> --
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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Steve Palincsar]

On Tue, 2013-05-07 at 06:49 -0500, Bruce Herbitter wrote:
> 
> Speaking of actual labels, when I repainted a Road two years ago, it
> was important to me to find the correct decal set. Just because I
> really liked how they looked on the bike's down tube . I also got with
> Reynolds for new tubing decals. They did not have the same ones
> originally used (French) but they sent me scans of every old decal
> they still had available and I found something suitable. They were
> nice people to deal with btw.  

A Rivendell Road was built with French diameter tubing?  I didn't think
Waterford was using French diameter 531 at that time.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[Bruce Herbitter]

The labels were written in French. I don't know what tubing specs were
used.  753 frame and stays and 531 fork blades.


On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 7:11 AM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> On Tue, 2013-05-07 at 06:49 -0500, Bruce Herbitter wrote:
> >
> > Speaking of actual labels, when I repainted a Road two years ago, it
> > was important to me to find the correct decal set. Just because I
> > really liked how they looked on the bike's down tube . I also got with
> > Reynolds for new tubing decals. They did not have the same ones
> > originally used (French) but they sent me scans of every old decal
> > they still had available and I found something suitable. They were
> > nice people to deal with btw.
>
> A Rivendell Road was built with French diameter tubing?  I didn't think
> Waterford was using French diameter 531 at that time.
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[PATRICK MOORE]

When you say "spry", do you mean acceleration or turning? curious because
my new-to-me Ram feels outstanding in handling but somewhat sluggish
compared to my customs, even the 559X1.35 Kojak-shod one I rode today. Not
that, in this instance, it's a matter for anguish, since the Ram fills a
wonderful niche for me (fun sport tourer that handles heavy grocery loads),
but I'm curious.

Did your (well, those your rode) Ram and Rod have the same tires?

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 2:00 PM, LBleriot  wrote:

>
>
> This is an interesting quote.  I own a Roadeo and owned a Ram.  I think
> that the San Marcos rides very similarly to the Ram.  Comfy and sure footed
> like the Ram, but not a "spry" as the Roadeo.
>
>

-- 

http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com

Albuquerque, NM

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv Suggestion Box: San Marcos

[LBleriot]

It could very well be the tires/wheels that influenced my comparison of the SM 
to the the Ram.  My Roadeo runs on Gran Bois 30 mm.  My Ram sported 
Parigi-Roubaix 27mm (really 29mm) and my SM has Paselas.  All of the wheels are 
traditional box rims laced to Campy hubs.  Neither the Ram nor the SM "planes" 
the way the Roadeo does for me, especially when climbing.  All are still loads 
of fun.  I think he SM is true value for a Riv designed bike.

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