[RBW] Re: removing broken hex bolt from rack mount

[Collin A]

Jason,

My suggested process might be a bit complicated if you don't already have 
the tooling. I've used a combination of a smaller drill bit and tap to 
thread the inside of the sheared bolt and screw in a long enough threaded 
bolt to lock both ends into the sheared bolt (still following?). I'm 
guessing that is an M4 bolt? If so, you should probably thread a M2 bolt 
through so as not to damage the threads on the eyelet.

Alternatively, throw on some JB weld (or epoxy of some sort) and a nut onto 
the little bit of exposed thread, leave it to set overnight, then try to 
remove it using a standard adjustable wrench. Be careful to not attach the 
JB weld to the frame!

Collin

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[RBW] Re: removing broken hex bolt from rack mount

[M D Smith]

Try and EZ out.  It's a brand of "screw extractor" that comes with a 
reverse drill bit.  There are other brands available, as well.  Check 
Google.  I find that often just using the reverse drill bit is enough to 
get those buggers loose.

Good luck!

Mike in steamy Somerville, Mass

On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 1:31:01 PM UTC-4, jandrews wrote:
>
> Hi
> I have a bolt stuck in the rear lower rack mount on my Protovelo.
> I'm sure some of you have removed one of these successfully.  Any tips? 
>
>
> 
>
> My mini vise grips won't grab on to the protruding nub of aluminum. 
>  Assuming I'll need to drill it out with a certain kind of bit?   I don't 
> currently have a quality drill...but I can probably borrow one.
> Thanks 
> Jason
>

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[RBW] Re: removing broken hex bolt from rack mount

['Tim' via RBW Owners Bunch]

+1 on the EZ out. Best way to do that job. If you don't have one, you need one 
anyway. 

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[RBW] Re: removing broken hex bolt from rack mount

[Bill Lindsay]

It's a kind of delicate job with many opportunities to screw it up.  I 
would seriously consider how important it is for you to fix this issue 
successfully.  If it's not that important that you succeed, then go for 
it.  Worst case, you fail, and you effectively lose that attachment point 
on that frame forever.  If it's pretty important, I'd recommend you find 
somebody who has done this repair before, can put their hands on it, look 
it over, and quote you a price.  It's money and effort well-spent if it's 
important that you succeed.  

If you are determined to try it, here are several thoughts:

1.  The bolt is not aluminum.  It's stainless steel.  If the bolt was 
aluminum it would be a far easier job.  
2.  Did you break the bolt?  If so, describe the situation.  Did it thread 
in easy and smooth, and when it started getting tight, you leaned on it and 
it broke?  Did you install it 5 years ago and then it broke while you were 
riding?  Did somebody else install it five years ago, so you have no idea 
how easily it went in?  Were you forcing it in, because the threads are 
full of paint?  All this contextual information will give you a hint at how 
hard it will be to remove the bolt.  
3.  You will start by dimpling the bolt as close to center as you can.  
Some people use a drift punch to make a dimple.  Some may use a center 
drill.  Building a good support fixture and using a drill press would have 
a much higher chance of success, which is one of the reasons why I'd 
consider paying somebody
4.  The larger the hole you can center drill into the center of the bolt 
shaft, the better, for the most part.  A bigger hole gets you more contact 
area for your easy out.  Sometimes with a big hole you can clear out the 
rest of the material with a tap.  But since you are already borrowing a 
drill, you presumably don't have either an easy out or a tap.  

I'd really strongly recommend at least having a good mechanic look at it. 
If a good mechanic charged you <$50 to do the job, I'd recommend you pay 
him.  Otherwise you might be spending $30 on tools that you may never use 
again.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 10:31:01 AM UTC-7, jandrews wrote:
>
> Hi
> I have a bolt stuck in the rear lower rack mount on my Protovelo.
> I'm sure some of you have removed one of these successfully.  Any tips? 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: removing broken hex bolt from rack mount

[Metin Uz]

I agree with all of what Bill said, and I would like to know the answers to 
his questions.

That being said, this is the easiest broken bolt situation one can have. 
The eyelet is open on both sides, and the broken bolt can be extracted in 
either direction without requiring a reverse-handed drill bit or easy out. 
I would like to see a picture of the other end before offering more 
suggestions.

--Metin 

On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 1:35:36 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> It's a kind of delicate job with many opportunities to screw it up.  I 
> would seriously consider how important it is for you to fix this issue 
> successfully.  If it's not that important that you succeed, then go for 
> it.  Worst case, you fail, and you effectively lose that attachment point 
> on that frame forever.  If it's pretty important, I'd recommend you find 
> somebody who has done this repair before, can put their hands on it, look 
> it over, and quote you a price.  It's money and effort well-spent if it's 
> important that you succeed.  
>
> If you are determined to try it, here are several thoughts:
>
> 1.  The bolt is not aluminum.  It's stainless steel.  If the bolt was 
> aluminum it would be a far easier job.  
> 2.  Did you break the bolt?  If so, describe the situation.  Did it thread 
> in easy and smooth, and when it started getting tight, you leaned on it and 
> it broke?  Did you install it 5 years ago and then it broke while you were 
> riding?  Did somebody else install it five years ago, so you have no idea 
> how easily it went in?  Were you forcing it in, because the threads are 
> full of paint?  All this contextual information will give you a hint at how 
> hard it will be to remove the bolt.  
> 3.  You will start by dimpling the bolt as close to center as you can.  
> Some people use a drift punch to make a dimple.  Some may use a center 
> drill.  Building a good support fixture and using a drill press would have 
> a much higher chance of success, which is one of the reasons why I'd 
> consider paying somebody
> 4.  The larger the hole you can center drill into the center of the bolt 
> shaft, the better, for the most part.  A bigger hole gets you more contact 
> area for your easy out.  Sometimes with a big hole you can clear out the 
> rest of the material with a tap.  But since you are already borrowing a 
> drill, you presumably don't have either an easy out or a tap.  
>
> I'd really strongly recommend at least having a good mechanic look at it. 
> If a good mechanic charged you <$50 to do the job, I'd recommend you pay 
> him.  Otherwise you might be spending $30 on tools that you may never use 
> again.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 10:31:01 AM UTC-7, jandrews wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>> I have a bolt stuck in the rear lower rack mount on my Protovelo.
>> I'm sure some of you have removed one of these successfully.  Any tips? 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: removing broken hex bolt from rack mount

[ian m]

Use a left hand drill bit to extract. As the bit grabs the metal it spins 
it counter-clockwise. Much safer than EZ outs which I don't trust. I've 
done this with old bolts that break on my 72 Honda motorcycle.

On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 1:31:01 PM UTC-4, jandrews wrote:
>
> Hi
> I have a bolt stuck in the rear lower rack mount on my Protovelo.
> I'm sure some of you have removed one of these successfully.  Any tips? 
>
>
> 
>
> My mini vise grips won't grab on to the protruding nub of aluminum. 
>  Assuming I'll need to drill it out with a certain kind of bit?   I don't 
> currently have a quality drill...but I can probably borrow one.
> Thanks 
> Jason
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: removing broken hex bolt from rack mount

[Jeff Lesperance]

I agree that Bill’s likely got the best advice here, though my default is
to try to cut a slot in it with a dremel or hacksaw if there’s enough bolt
body protruding from the boss - it looks like there is but  the angle of
the photo makes it hard to tell for sure. Once there’s enough of a slot to
get a slotted screwdriver on it, give it a twist. If that doesn’t work, the
dremel or hacksaw will be handy to just cut the boss right off! 😀

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 6:22 PM Metin Uz  wrote:

> I agree with all of what Bill said, and I would like to know the answers
> to his questions.
>
> That being said, this is the easiest broken bolt situation one can have.
> The eyelet is open on both sides, and the broken bolt can be extracted in
> either direction without requiring a reverse-handed drill bit or easy out.
> I would like to see a picture of the other end before offering more
> suggestions.
>
> --Metin
>
>
> On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 1:35:36 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> It's a kind of delicate job with many opportunities to screw it up.  I
>> would seriously consider how important it is for you to fix this issue
>> successfully.  If it's not that important that you succeed, then go for
>> it.  Worst case, you fail, and you effectively lose that attachment point
>> on that frame forever.  If it's pretty important, I'd recommend you find
>> somebody who has done this repair before, can put their hands on it, look
>> it over, and quote you a price.  It's money and effort well-spent if it's
>> important that you succeed.
>>
>> If you are determined to try it, here are several thoughts:
>>
>> 1.  The bolt is not aluminum.  It's stainless steel.  If the bolt was
>> aluminum it would be a far easier job.
>> 2.  Did you break the bolt?  If so, describe the situation.  Did it
>> thread in easy and smooth, and when it started getting tight, you leaned on
>> it and it broke?  Did you install it 5 years ago and then it broke while
>> you were riding?  Did somebody else install it five years ago, so you have
>> no idea how easily it went in?  Were you forcing it in, because the threads
>> are full of paint?  All this contextual information will give you a hint at
>> how hard it will be to remove the bolt.
>> 3.  You will start by dimpling the bolt as close to center as you can.
>> Some people use a drift punch to make a dimple.  Some may use a center
>> drill.  Building a good support fixture and using a drill press would have
>> a much higher chance of success, which is one of the reasons why I'd
>> consider paying somebody
>> 4.  The larger the hole you can center drill into the center of the bolt
>> shaft, the better, for the most part.  A bigger hole gets you more contact
>> area for your easy out.  Sometimes with a big hole you can clear out the
>> rest of the material with a tap.  But since you are already borrowing a
>> drill, you presumably don't have either an easy out or a tap.
>>
>> I'd really strongly recommend at least having a good mechanic look at it.
>> If a good mechanic charged you <$50 to do the job, I'd recommend you pay
>> him.  Otherwise you might be spending $30 on tools that you may never use
>> again.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 10:31:01 AM UTC-7, jandrews wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>> I have a bolt stuck in the rear lower rack mount on my Protovelo.
>>> I'm sure some of you have removed one of these successfully.  Any tips?
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: removing broken hex bolt from rack mount

[jandrews]

Thanks for the advice everyone
And Bill, your response is helpful.
However, I don't remember how it happened.  I think I just leaned too much 
into tightening the bolt when installing fenders and the head broke off. 
 It was a couple of years ago.
I'm not sure what my options are for having someone attend to this locally.
I will try the ez-out with the frame as well supported as possible 
Jason



On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 8:21:09 PM UTC-4, Jeff wrote:
>
> I agree that Bill’s likely got the best advice here, though my default is 
> to try to cut a slot in it with a dremel or hacksaw if there’s enough bolt 
> body protruding from the boss - it looks like there is but  the angle of 
> the photo makes it hard to tell for sure. Once there’s enough of a slot to 
> get a slotted screwdriver on it, give it a twist. If that doesn’t work, the 
> dremel or hacksaw will be handy to just cut the boss right off! 😀
>
> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 6:22 PM Metin Uz > 
> wrote:
>
>> I agree with all of what Bill said, and I would like to know the answers 
>> to his questions.
>>
>> That being said, this is the easiest broken bolt situation one can have. 
>> The eyelet is open on both sides, and the broken bolt can be extracted in 
>> either direction without requiring a reverse-handed drill bit or easy out. 
>> I would like to see a picture of the other end before offering more 
>> suggestions.
>>
>> --Metin 
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 1:35:36 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> It's a kind of delicate job with many opportunities to screw it up.  I 
>>> would seriously consider how important it is for you to fix this issue 
>>> successfully.  If it's not that important that you succeed, then go for 
>>> it.  Worst case, you fail, and you effectively lose that attachment point 
>>> on that frame forever.  If it's pretty important, I'd recommend you find 
>>> somebody who has done this repair before, can put their hands on it, look 
>>> it over, and quote you a price.  It's money and effort well-spent if it's 
>>> important that you succeed.  
>>>
>>> If you are determined to try it, here are several thoughts:
>>>
>>> 1.  The bolt is not aluminum.  It's stainless steel.  If the bolt was 
>>> aluminum it would be a far easier job.  
>>> 2.  Did you break the bolt?  If so, describe the situation.  Did it 
>>> thread in easy and smooth, and when it started getting tight, you leaned on 
>>> it and it broke?  Did you install it 5 years ago and then it broke while 
>>> you were riding?  Did somebody else install it five years ago, so you have 
>>> no idea how easily it went in?  Were you forcing it in, because the threads 
>>> are full of paint?  All this contextual information will give you a hint at 
>>> how hard it will be to remove the bolt.  
>>> 3.  You will start by dimpling the bolt as close to center as you can.  
>>> Some people use a drift punch to make a dimple.  Some may use a center 
>>> drill.  Building a good support fixture and using a drill press would have 
>>> a much higher chance of success, which is one of the reasons why I'd 
>>> consider paying somebody
>>> 4.  The larger the hole you can center drill into the center of the bolt 
>>> shaft, the better, for the most part.  A bigger hole gets you more contact 
>>> area for your easy out.  Sometimes with a big hole you can clear out the 
>>> rest of the material with a tap.  But since you are already borrowing a 
>>> drill, you presumably don't have either an easy out or a tap.  
>>>
>>> I'd really strongly recommend at least having a good mechanic look at 
>>> it. If a good mechanic charged you <$50 to do the job, I'd recommend you 
>>> pay him.  Otherwise you might be spending $30 on tools that you may never 
>>> use again.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 10:31:01 AM UTC-7, jandrews wrote:

 Hi
 I have a bolt stuck in the rear lower rack mount on my Protovelo.
 I'm sure some of you have removed one of these successfully.  Any tips? 

 -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>

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Re: [RBW] Re: removing broken hex bolt from rack mount

[Ian A]

Is there room to get purchase with a pair of vise grips? You might be able to 
simply unscrew. I might also try a sharpened punch and attempt to unscrew by 
tapping with the hammer and punch the remaining head of the screw to the left. 

Some WD40 or equivalent applied to the screw before starting would be good. 
Tape the frame in the area in case of a slip.

IanA

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Re: [RBW] Re: removing broken hex bolt from rack mount

[Howard Ramsay]

Jason, here is a tip I learned working on similar screws over the last 50 
years. Tape off the surrounding painted area. Apply a couple of drops of 
penetrating lubricant to both sides of the damaged screw. Using a ⅛" drill 
bit Carefully start a hole in the CENTER of the damaged screw. Slowly drill 
into the damaged screw head approx. ¼ inch.  Now Reverse the drill 
direction to remove the bit. (As you do so the screw may self extract.) 
Carefully repeat using the next size bit. Should you find you need to use a 
Screw Extractor may I recommend Alden Grabit, available at Lowe's, Home 
Depot, and Amazon. Remove the card on the inside of the case and Look 
carefully at the pictures Twice before using the extractor. Note which end 
of the tool is used first. The tool is only operated in the Reverse 
direction.  With a hole predrilled into the center of the damaged screw, it 
should come out quite easily without damage to your paint. Here is a link: 
https://www.lowes.com/pd/GRABIT-2-Pc-Kit/3030140 Hope this helps.
  [image: GRABIT 2 Pc. Kit] 


On Friday, July 6, 2018 at 6:05:17 AM UTC-5, jandrews wrote:
>
> Thanks for the advice everyone
> And Bill, your response is helpful.
> However, I don't remember how it happened.  I think I just leaned too much 
> into tightening the bolt when installing fenders and the head broke off. 
>  It was a couple of years ago.
> I'm not sure what my options are for having someone attend to this locally.
> I will try the ez-out with the frame as well supported as possible 
> Jason
>
>
>
> On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 8:21:09 PM UTC-4, Jeff wrote:
>>
>> I agree that Bill’s likely got the best advice here, though my default is 
>> to try to cut a slot in it with a dremel or hacksaw if there’s enough bolt 
>> body protruding from the boss - it looks like there is but  the angle of 
>> the photo makes it hard to tell for sure. Once there’s enough of a slot to 
>> get a slotted screwdriver on it, give it a twist. If that doesn’t work, the 
>> dremel or hacksaw will be handy to just cut the boss right off! 😀
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 6:22 PM Metin Uz  wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with all of what Bill said, and I would like to know the answers 
>>> to his questions.
>>>
>>> That being said, this is the easiest broken bolt situation one can have. 
>>> The eyelet is open on both sides, and the broken bolt can be extracted in 
>>> either direction without requiring a reverse-handed drill bit or easy out. 
>>> I would like to see a picture of the other end before offering more 
>>> suggestions.
>>>
>>> --Metin 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 1:35:36 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:

 It's a kind of delicate job with many opportunities to screw it up.  I 
 would seriously consider how important it is for you to fix this issue 
 successfully.  If it's not that important that you succeed, then go for 
 it.  Worst case, you fail, and you effectively lose that attachment point 
 on that frame forever.  If it's pretty important, I'd recommend you find 
 somebody who has done this repair before, can put their hands on it, look 
 it over, and quote you a price.  It's money and effort well-spent if it's 
 important that you succeed.  

 If you are determined to try it, here are several thoughts:

 1.  The bolt is not aluminum.  It's stainless steel.  If the bolt was 
 aluminum it would be a far easier job.  
 2.  Did you break the bolt?  If so, describe the situation.  Did it 
 thread in easy and smooth, and when it started getting tight, you leaned 
 on 
 it and it broke?  Did you install it 5 years ago and then it broke while 
 you were riding?  Did somebody else install it five years ago, so you have 
 no idea how easily it went in?  Were you forcing it in, because the 
 threads 
 are full of paint?  All this contextual information will give you a hint 
 at 
 how hard it will be to remove the bolt.  
 3.  You will start by dimpling the bolt as close to center as you can.  
 Some people use a drift punch to make a dimple.  Some may use a center 
 drill.  Building a good support fixture and using a drill press would have 
 a much higher chance of success, which is one of the reasons why I'd 
 consider paying somebody
 4.  The larger the hole you can center drill into the center of the 
 bolt shaft, the better, for the most part.  A bigger hole gets you more 
 contact area for your easy out.  Sometimes with a big hole you can clear 
 out the rest of the material with a tap.  But since you are already 
 borrowing a drill, you presumably don't have either an easy out or a tap.  

 I'd really strongly recommend at least having a good mechanic look at 
 it. If a good mechanic charged you <$50 to do the job, I'd recommend you 
 pay him.  Otherwise you might be spending $30 on tools that you may nev