Re: [RBW] Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better?

[Patrick Moore]

About 3:17: clarinet solo: honking a hill in a 70" gear with strong wind at
your back.

The Jerry Garcia of clarinetists.

Over and out.

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 9:09 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Very late to the party as usual, but the band merits its mention.
>
> Bike content: Riv custom road clone built for 1930s-1950s SA hub gears,
> music: one of Tuba Skinny's classics, late version:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I-aWr8uvgw
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 8:05 AM Den John  wrote:
>
>> OK, since we're off topic anyway, which companies/individual
>> framebuilders can be compared with which classic rock bands/musicians?
>> Here's a couple of attempts:
>>
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better?

[Patrick Moore]

Very late to the party as usual, but the band merits its mention.

Bike content: Riv custom road clone built for 1930s-1950s SA hub gears,
music: one of Tuba Skinny's classics, late version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I-aWr8uvgw



On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 8:05 AM Den John  wrote:

> OK, since we're off topic anyway, which companies/individual framebuilders
> can be compared with which classic rock bands/musicians? Here's a couple of
> attempts:
>

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better?

[James Cooper]

I second Philip’s point. I am glad that Russ is putting attention to 
“alternative” forms of cycling. His video on the Sam prompted me to start 
looking for a Riv in the first place. I definitely dont think he is living 
large off of YT.

James

> On Feb 11, 2021, at 9:06 AM, Philip Barrett  wrote:
> 
> Path Less Pedalled is one of the good guys and I think Russ works alone out 
> of his (unheated) garage in Montana which may account for some of the editing 
> trickery? Personally I find it great that there is so much great stuff to 
> watch out there for absolutely no cost, most of these creators are making 
> maybe a few bucks a month doing this. If I don't agree with a channel I just 
> click through.
> 
> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 9:59:14 AM UTC-6 Mark Roland wrote:
> Laing wrote: I get a big kick out of all the people with commentary on a 
> video that they did not watch.
> The PLP post is titled Rivendell vs. Crust. Which is Better?  There are no 
> models in the title, and that is what brings it to the realm of clickbait. 
> The OP also states right up front that the video is less provocative.  
> Generally, Rivendell vs. Crust, some of the qualities that separate them are 
> disc brakes, more conventional chainstay lengths, and yes, low trail. Based 
> on the thrust of the thread starter, I would say perfectly legitimate to 
> comment without bothering to watch the actual video referenced. Obviously a 
> Sam Hillborne does not qualify as low trail. It may be lower trail than bike 
> x, but not low trail. I did find it mildly amusing that he was noting the 
> differences between 42.5 and 45.5 chainstays. He should try a Susie!
> 
> From an aesthetic point of view, I find his videos hard to watch due to the 
> editing/splicing. I wish he would let the camera roll through a bit 
> more--maybe he could have a cheat board of notes if he can't talk 
> extemporaneously. As it is, the video is noticeably spliced after every 
> sentence or two.  Maybe this is normal these days with vlogs, and it's just 
> me being old. Oh well.
> 
> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 8:26:38 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:
> I get a big kick out of all the people with commentary on a video that they 
> did not watch. As Tom pointed out, the Sam Hillborne is the "low trail" bike 
> in this comparison - you need to watch the video to know what is in it. Note 
> that I have one Crust (Scapegoat) and 12 Rivendells.
> 
> One word on guitarists: Hendrix.
> 
> Laing
> 
> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 8:09:04 AM UTC-5 Tom M wrote:
> FWIW, the particular Crust Russ is reviewing isn't low trail — he said it's 
> 76 or 75 mm. I don't have a particular dog in the fight, and I enjoyed the 
> video and don't consider it click-bait. As Russ said, he gets asked this type 
> of question all the time, so why not do a video?
> 
> And re: guitarists—thanks to Philip for the Rory Gallagher link. I'd never 
> heard of him but will now check him out.
> 
> Tom Milani
> Alexandria, VA USA
> 
> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 2:18:44 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
> Which - to be clear - is my response to the premise of the thread which is 
> the premise of the Path Less Pedaled thing. I'm not objecting to the thread 
> being a thread. 
> 
> Joe "let me say this about that" Bernard
> 
> On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 10:02:16 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
> I don't think a Riv vs. anything low trail really counts as a comparison, 
> it's two very different approaches to what is considered the "right" way for 
> a bicycle to handle. But my bias is extreme, I bought a Crust Lightning Bolt 
> (disc) and hoo boy did I learn the expensive way that I do not like low 
> trail. Rivs ride the way I need my bikes to ride. 
> 
> On Tuesday, February 9, 2021 at 8:03:14 PM UTC-8 Ben Miller wrote:
> The "Path Less Pedaled" YouTube channel just released a video with the 
> provocative title "Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better? 
> " 
> 
> The actual video is a lot less provocative. Basically Russ comparing his 
> Hillborne to his Bombora. Still interesting, but maybe less so than it could 
> be? 
> 
> I imagine Crust and Rivendell must get compared to each other a lot. I know 
> that their the only two bike frames I currently own and ride, so I do it more 
> or less constantly. I imagine that this is partly due to Matt & Bene 
> purposefully designing the Romanceur frame with the Rivendell aesthetic in 
> mind. I think Russ sort of touches on that, when comparing the Bombora to the 
> All City and the Hillborne to the Richtey. He seems to be saying, the 
> Ritchey/All City aesthetic lacked something the Riv/Crust bikes had. 
> 
> Anyways, I think of Crust as threadless, disc, and low trail compared to 
> Rivendell with rim brakes, quill stems, and high trail. Like most thing's not 
> hard and fast (see: Canti Lightning Bolt). What's your hot take on the two?
> 
> I think both bike companies are really doing some 

Re: [RBW] Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better?

[Den John]

OK, since we're off topic anyway, which companies/individual framebuilders 
can be compared with which classic rock bands/musicians? Here's a couple of 
attempts:

Riv> Grateful Dead: fanatically loyal fanbase, plus lots of people who just 
don't get it man.
Surly> Fleetwood Mac. Tend to get dismissed as lightweight pop, but did 
some innovative stuff in their time.
Bruce Gordon> John Lydon. Bit scary, tends to rub people up the wrong way, 
but a major influence.
Crust> David Bowie. Flirting with all kinds of different identities. A bit 
erratic but always good quality. 

Johnny in Belgium

On Thursday, 11 February 2021 at 15:53:40 UTC+1 Eric Daume wrote:

> I’ve had a lot of bikes pass through my garage, but my rSogn is one of the 
> few I regret selling. 
>
> On Thursday, February 11, 2021, Mark Roland  wrote:
>
>> Sorry, cut off the fork legs! Re: current models. I don't think there are 
>> any. Didn't they implode a few years back? (One more non-Riv element to the 
>> Nord--43mm chainstays across all sizes.)
>>
>> [image: IMG_0113.JPG]
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 12:40:18 AM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> I miss the days when Rawland did curved fork legs :(  Such gorgeous 
>>> frames.  I am sure the current models ride nice but just not the same. 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 9:35 PM Mark Roland  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I agree with Mark S. that the title is just silly clickbait and don't 
 have much interest in watching. I'm sure the video itself is more nuanced, 
 but still not that interested. Crust makes some interesting bicycles, and 
 they appeal to all the people who complain that Rivendell won't do disc 
 brakes or low trail--almost a market sitting there waiting to be provided 
 to. 

 I guess there have been some almost blatant attempts at copying, but 
 that is not necessarily a bad thing, especially if it captures enough of 
 the good but maybe at a lower price point. Also, everyone "copies" --Grant 
 did not reinvent the wheel. However, he took designs (and materials) that 
 had fallen from favor and continued developing them. I think his designs 
 of 
 the last five years are his most radical and successful. One way I know 
 they are the most radical is that it's much harder to find a vintage 
 platform to build up a wanna-be Rivendell--there just isn't anything out 
 there that is close. The way I know they are successful is I own three of 
 them. 

 By the way, the Rawland  Nordavinden  mentioned above, other than being 
 steel, is not particularly Rivish. It uses standard size tubing and it has 
 a barely sloped 7/4/7 top tube and a low trail geometry. It is much more 
 in 
 the vein of a Bicycle Quarterly Rando machine. I had the pleasure of being 
 part of the online design crew that helped develop Rawland's previous 
 offering, the rSogn. It too had a lightweight, standard diameter top tube 
 and low trail design. The main differences were all sizes were 650b, more 
 sloped tt, clearance for wider tires, threadless, beefier fork, and 
 cantilever brakes. Here's mine (since sold, replaced by a L'avecaise, also 
 since sold):

 [image: IMG_0127.JPG]

 On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 11:36:38 PM UTC-5 Ben Miller wrote:

> Well, I guess this thread has gone entirely OT.
>
> On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 6:03:33 PM UTC-8 Robert Tilley 
> wrote:
>
>> Richard Thompson is of the best I’ve seen. And a great songwriter. 
>> Right now I’m leaning towards Robert Fripp but it’s hard to argue 
>> against 
>> Thompson. 
>>
>> As far as bikes go, for me old Riv > Crust while Crust > new Riv. I 
>> can’t really get into a lot of the newer frames Riv has put out but I 
>> love 
>> the older models. I’m a Riv retrogrouch I guess.
>>
>> Robert Tilley
>> San Diego, CA
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 10, 2021, at 11:47 AM, Mike Godwin  wrote:
>>
>> Actually its Richard Thompson
>>
>>
>> Mike SLO CA
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 10:17:49 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Totally agree on the Crust / Riv collaboration frame. That would be 
>>> really neat. I love the idea of single-batch collaboration runs like 
>>> this, 
>>> and it would be cool to see more of them.  I tried to publicly connect 
>>> Ocean Air Cycles and Rivendell to spark a MIT run of their Rambler 
>>> frameset 
>>> but it didn't work haha. 
>>>
>>> I imagine that collaborative frame being fairly sporty tubing but 
>>> tons of tire clearance, and pretty long in the TT for upright bars or 
>>> zero-reach drop setups 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, 9 February 2021 at 20:03:14 UTC-8 Ben Miller wrote:
>>>

 I think both bike companies are really doing some amazing and 

[RBW] Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better?

[Ben Miller]

The "Path Less Pedaled" YouTube channel just released a video with the 
provocative title "Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better? 
" 

The actual video is a lot less provocative. Basically Russ comparing his 
Hillborne to his Bombora. Still interesting, but maybe less so than it 
could be? 

I imagine Crust and Rivendell must get compared to each other a lot. I know 
that their the only two bike frames I currently own and ride, so I do it 
more or less constantly. I imagine that this is partly due to Matt & Bene 
purposefully designing the Romanceur frame with the Rivendell aesthetic in 
mind. I think Russ sort of touches on that, when comparing the Bombora to 
the All City and the Hillborne to the Richtey. He seems to be saying, the 
Ritchey/All City aesthetic lacked something the Riv/Crust bikes had. 

Anyways, I think of Crust as threadless, disc, and low trail compared to 
Rivendell with rim brakes, quill stems, and high trail. Like most thing's 
not hard and fast (see: Canti Lightning Bolt). What's your hot take on the 
two?

I think both bike companies are really doing some amazing and important 
stuff for the bike industry. What I think would be really interesting 
collaboration between Grant and Matt. Maybe something along the lines of 
the Soma San Marcos, but both providing inputs. That'd be really cool!

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