Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
Well, the 10 speed cassette is only a few mm wider than the 8 speed that Tom uses successfully, so it might work. On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 12:59 PM, Daniel Jackson < daniel.seth.jack...@gmail.com> wrote: > SO how about a 1 x 10 with dynasys rear mech and friction dura ace 9 speed > bar end? > > On Thursday, February 18, 2016 at 10:47:23 AM UTC-5, Tom Harrop wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Just necro'ing this thread (also partly in light of the derailer >> discussion in another thread) to say that I recently switched to a Dyna-sys >> mech on my Bomba MTB as a result of this discussion. I'm shifting an 8sp >> cassette with Silver friction shifters. The specific model I bought is the >> XT RD-M786-GS. >> >> The difference is amazing. It has solved a big issue I was having with >> ghost shifting, which I thought was just a fact of life riding a large (64 >> cm) steel frame offroad because of flex in the BB area. Can't tell you if >> it is the clutch, higher chain tension or lack of pulley float but the >> problem is gone. >> >> Oh, and there's absolutely no problem with lever range (Silver on Paul >> thumbies). >> >> Great tip, thanks! >> >> Tom >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
SO how about a 1 x 10 with dynasys rear mech and friction dura ace 9 speed bar end? On Thursday, February 18, 2016 at 10:47:23 AM UTC-5, Tom Harrop wrote: > > Hi all, > > Just necro'ing this thread (also partly in light of the derailer > discussion in another thread) to say that I recently switched to a Dyna-sys > mech on my Bomba MTB as a result of this discussion. I'm shifting an 8sp > cassette with Silver friction shifters. The specific model I bought is the > XT RD-M786-GS. > > The difference is amazing. It has solved a big issue I was having with > ghost shifting, which I thought was just a fact of life riding a large (64 > cm) steel frame offroad because of flex in the BB area. Can't tell you if > it is the clutch, higher chain tension or lack of pulley float but the > problem is gone. > > Oh, and there's absolutely no problem with lever range (Silver on Paul > thumbies). > > Great tip, thanks! > > Tom > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
Hi all, Just necro'ing this thread (also partly in light of the derailer discussion in another thread) to say that I recently switched to a Dyna-sys mech on my Bomba MTB as a result of this discussion. I'm shifting an 8sp cassette with Silver friction shifters. The specific model I bought is the XT RD-M786-GS. The difference is amazing. It has solved a big issue I was having with ghost shifting, which I thought was just a fact of life riding a large (64 cm) steel frame offroad because of flex in the BB area. Can't tell you if it is the clutch, higher chain tension or lack of pulley float but the problem is gone. Oh, and there's absolutely no problem with lever range (Silver on Paul thumbies). Great tip, thanks! Tom -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
Most sources claim there is not enough cable pull in non-dyna-sys levers to shift across the whole cassette. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
On 07/02/2015 04:50 PM, Clayton.sf wrote: Most sources claim there is not enough cable pull in non-dyna-sys levers to shift across the whole cassette. You obviously are basing that on real-world experience. What are those sources basing the claims on? AFAIK there's nothing unusual or special about the range of an 8 speed bar end shifter. Perhaps those sources never tried? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
On 07/02/2015 05:55 PM, Clayton.sf wrote: To quote sheldon: * Shimano Dyna-Sys 10-speed shifters and derailers use a longer cable pull than other Shimano models, and must be used together. And from Riv: FLASH! SRAM's 9, 10, 11sp mountain, Sram 10 and 11sp road; Shimano mountain 10sp dynasys, Shimano 11sp road (Shimano 10sp Road will sorta work but it's hard to dial in the right gear since the cogs are so close); Campy 10/11sp rear derailers don't seem to work with this shifter. the Riv thing refers to their silver shifter, but they actuall do work as well - at least for me ;-). I think it probably takes exceptional skill to friction shift 10. If you've got it, flaunt it. Next up, 11! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
Most new shimano rear ders are now dynasys. Some of them come with the clutch others don't. You nothing else to use the clutch. It is compatible with a normal cassette. It does increase chain tension. Great for 1x drivtrains but also nice to reduce chains lap in general. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
Sorry - that's I too have read that it would not be POSSIBLE. On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 8:28:55 PM UTC-6, iamkeith wrote: Darn it. I wish you'd posted this about a week ago. I just purchased some components for a Dynashift setup on my new mountain bike. As you mention, the clutch derailleur was the main thing I wanted to gain, but the 40 tooth rear cog is pretty appealing, too. Mostly though, I'm just sort of getting tired of putting so much effort into sourcing discontinued parts, mixing and matching brands and series, and otherwise generally hacking the system. This will be the first time in as long as long as I can remember that I went all-modern. (Though I guess 10 speed is no longer state-of-the-art, with the advent of 11 speed.). For mid to mid-high level components, like XT, its also starting to seem like its cheaper to just get whatever is current. Just out of principal though, I did spring for some dynasys-specific Microshift thumbies with a friction mode, and a Whipperman chain with a real master-link. Regarding internet rumors and mechanics' claims about the feasibility of what you achieved, Clayton: I too have read many times that it would not be impossible, but the main reason was the notion that the tension on the derailleur is so much higher that it would overpower the older shifter. Interesting that this isn't an issue. Also interesting that the 8 speed chain fits ok within the narrower 10 speed pulley cage! Thanks for posting this! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
Darn it. I wish you'd posted this about a week ago. I just purchased some components for a Dynashift setup on my new mountain bike. As you mention, the clutch derailleur was the main thing I wanted to gain, but the 40 tooth rear cog is pretty appealing, too. Mostly though, I'm just sort of getting tired of putting so much effort into sourcing discontinued parts, mixing and matching brands and series, and otherwise generally hacking the system. This will be the first time in as long as long as I can remember that I went all-modern. (Though I guess 10 speed is no longer state-of-the-art, with the advent of 11 speed.). For mid to mid-high level components, like XT, its also starting to seem like its cheaper to just get whatever is current. Just out of principal though, I did spring for some dynasys-specific Microshift thumbies with a friction mode, and a Whipperman chain with a real master-link. Regarding internet rumors and mechanics' claims about the feasibility of what you achieved, Clayton: I too have read many times that it would not be impossible, but the main reason was the notion that the tension on the derailleur is so much higher that it would overpower the older shifter. Interesting that this isn't an issue. Also interesting that the 8 speed chain fits ok within the narrower 10 speed pulley cage! Thanks for posting this! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
So, ah, what's the benefit of a dyna-sys RD for a mountain bike? I'm not being sarcastic, I googled it but couldn't really understand through all the marketing... Does dyna-sys equal clutch derailer? Is the idea to get better chain tension on bumpy bits? Could you just put a clutch derailer on a friction-shifted 8sp cassette or do you need other special bits? Thanks Tom -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
Dynasys is only for mtb. Just to clarify. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
On 07/02/2015 12:58 PM, Clayton.sf wrote: Thought some of you would be interested that despite the fact that internet says you can’t mix shimano Dyna-sys rear derailers with anything but Dyna-sys shifters I am successfully running them with shimano ultegra 8 speed bar ends in friction mode Actually, the internet says you can't /index shift/ Dyna-sys rear mechs with anything but Dyna-sys shifters, because the Dyna-sys rear mech's cable pull requirement is different from the road derailleurs, and the indexed bar end shifters and road STI brifters pull matches road and non-Dyna-sys rear derailleurs. When you're friction shifting, it isn't the placement of detents that determines when you've shifted enough, it's operator wetware that does the job. So as long as the friction shifter pulls enough cable to get the rear derailleur to travel through its full range and as long as operator wetware is sufficiently sensitive to detect when you've moved the rear mech enough to accurately complete the shift, you're good to go. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
Here a source: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/friction-shifting-a-dynasys-rear-mech Just search and you will find more -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
I read all the replies there . and it's based only on mathematical theory , no one actually testes it real world with any friction shifters. While I myself find shifting perfect on standard derailers with it's 2:1 cable ratio , the friction shifters I use, Sun Tour thumbies , have very a generous range . As with all things derailers and shifters . . . . there's spec, which is limited to the paper it is written on , and there's the real world application of it to which limits can and do vary . Sometimes night and day differences ! On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 5:23:09 PM UTC-4, Clayton.sf wrote: Here a source: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/friction-shifting-a-dynasys-rear-mech Just search and you will find more -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
I was really surprised myself which is why I am posting it here. Have had several mechanics tell me it won't work too. On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 2:34:46 PM UTC-7, Garth wrote: I read all the replies there . and it's based only on mathematical theory , no one actually tested it real world with any friction shifters. While I myself find shifting perfect on standard derailers with it's 2:1 cable ratio , the friction shifters I use, Sun Tour thumbies , have very a generous range . As with all things derailers and shifters . . . . there's spec, which is limited to the paper it is written on , and there's the real world application of it to which limits can and do vary . Sometimes night and day differences ! And results will vary from bike to bike . On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 5:23:09 PM UTC-4, Clayton.sf wrote: Here a source: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/friction-shifting-a-dynasys-rear-mech Just search and you will find more -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
On 07/02/2015 05:34 PM, Garth wrote: I read all the replies there . and it's based only on mathematical theory , no one actually tested it real world with any friction shifters. Except Clayton! And for him, it works. I do seem to remember reading that someone proved mathematically that a bumblebee could not fly... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
To quote sheldon: - Shimano Dyna-Sys 10-speed shifters and derailers use a longer cable pull than other Shimano models, and must be used together. And from Riv: FLASH! SRAM's 9, 10, 11sp mountain, Sram 10 and 11sp road; Shimano mountain 10sp dynasys, Shimano 11sp road (Shimano 10sp Road will sorta work but it's hard to dial in the right gear since the cogs are so close); Campy 10/11sp rear derailers don't seem to work with this shifter. the Riv thing refers to their silver shifter, but they actuall do work as well - at least for me ;-). On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 2:46:26 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 07/02/2015 05:38 PM, Clayton.sf wrote: I was really surprised myself which is why I am posting it here. Have had several mechanics tell me it won't work too. And there were a bunch of mechanics who said it was impossible to use one of those 11-36 cassettes on a road bike, too. And it was, right up until surprise, it wasn't. I have a bunch of friends who have them. (Of course, you do have to use the right rear derailleur, but it works just fine.) Actually, some years ago now, I had a shop owner tell me it would be professionally irresponsible for a bike shop to consider installing a wide range MTB cassette (back then, I think 12-32 or possibly 11-34) on a road bike, that it would be the equivalent of malpractice, and that he would fire any employee of his who even entertained the notion. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
Another nice thing is that it opens up clutch detailer to friction shifting. Very nice for trail riding -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
This is an interesting discovery. I agree that clutch derailers are nice to reduce chain slap. I'll have to give it a try next time I pick up a 10s Shimano MTB RD. My attempt will be friction shifting 9 speeds with a 9 speed bar-end. Tim On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 4:24 PM, Clayton.sf clayton...@gmail.com wrote: Another nice thing is that it opens up clutch detailer to friction shifting. Very nice for trail riding -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
I read all the replies there . and it's based only on mathematical theory , no one actually testes it real world with any friction shifters. While I myself find shifting perfect on standard derailers with it's 2:1 cable ratio , the friction shifters I use, Sun Tour thumbies , have very a generous range . As with all things derailers and shifters . . . . there's spec, which is limited to the paper it is written on , and there's the real world application of it to which limits can and do vary . Sometimes night and day differences ! On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 5:23:09 PM UTC-4, Clayton.sf wrote: Here a source: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/friction-shifting-a-dynasys-rear-mech Just search and you will find more -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
I read all the replies there . and it's based only on mathematical theory , no one actually tested it real world with any friction shifters. While I myself find shifting perfect on standard derailers with it's 2:1 cable ratio , the friction shifters I use, Sun Tour thumbies , have very a generous range . As with all things derailers and shifters . . . . there's spec, which is limited to the paper it is written on , and there's the real world application of it to which limits can and do vary . Sometimes night and day differences ! And results will vary from bike to bike . On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 5:23:09 PM UTC-4, Clayton.sf wrote: Here a source: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/friction-shifting-a-dynasys-rear-mech Just search and you will find more -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Friction Shifting Dyna-sys
On 07/02/2015 05:38 PM, Clayton.sf wrote: I was really surprised myself which is why I am posting it here. Have had several mechanics tell me it won't work too. And there were a bunch of mechanics who said it was impossible to use one of those 11-36 cassettes on a road bike, too. And it was, right up until surprise, it wasn't. I have a bunch of friends who have them. (Of course, you do have to use the right rear derailleur, but it works just fine.) Actually, some years ago now, I had a shop owner tell me it would be professionally irresponsible for a bike shop to consider installing a wide range MTB cassette (back then, I think 12-32 or possibly 11-34) on a road bike, that it would be the equivalent of malpractice, and that he would fire any employee of his who even entertained the notion. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
