Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[René Sterental]

Thank you!

On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 9:43 AM Julian Westerhout 
wrote:

> Rene,
>
> From the tandem list:
>
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>
>
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, Il
>
> On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 11:26:43 AM UTC-5, René wrote:
>
>> Right. The Santana article pointed that out and their argument was that
>> whereas the hard braking risk on a regular bike is for the rider to go over
>> the bars, on a tandem is for the front wheel to slide under if locked,
>> which has catastrophic results.
>>
>> I'm going to look for that tandem group. Do you have an address?
>>
>> René
>>
> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:27 AM Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>>
> Well, for sure you aren't going to lift the back wheel off the ground!
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/23/2017 08:23 AM, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>> > This topic has been raging on the Tandem@hobbes list for the entire
>>> > winter.  It's been physicist vs physicist and I am not about to jump
>>> > into the argument.  A lot depends on the kind of riding you do.  One
>>> > thing I will offer for those new to the tandem world.  Because of the
>>> > added rear weight in a tandem the rear tire has better adherence and
>>> > therefore provides more braking power than the rear brake of a half
>>> bike.
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[Julian Westerhout]

Rene, 

>From the tandem list: 

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--
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Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, Il 

On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 11:26:43 AM UTC-5, René wrote:
>
> Right. The Santana article pointed that out and their argument was that 
> whereas the hard braking risk on a regular bike is for the rider to go over 
> the bars, on a tandem is for the front wheel to slide under if locked, 
> which has catastrophic results. 
>
> I'm going to look for that tandem group. Do you have an address?
>
> René 
>
> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:27 AM Steve Palincsar  > wrote:
>
>> Well, for sure you aren't going to lift the back wheel off the ground!
>>
>>
>> On 04/23/2017 08:23 AM, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>> > This topic has been raging on the Tandem@hobbes list for the entire
>> > winter.  It's been physicist vs physicist and I am not about to jump
>> > into the argument.  A lot depends on the kind of riding you do.  One
>> > thing I will offer for those new to the tandem world.  Because of the
>> > added rear weight in a tandem the rear tire has better adherence and
>> > therefore provides more braking power than the rear brake of a half 
>> bike.
>>
>> --
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[René Sterental]

Right. The Santana article pointed that out and their argument was that
whereas the hard braking risk on a regular bike is for the rider to go over
the bars, on a tandem is for the front wheel to slide under if locked,
which has catastrophic results.

I'm going to look for that tandem group. Do you have an address?

René

On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:27 AM Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> Well, for sure you aren't going to lift the back wheel off the ground!
>
>
> On 04/23/2017 08:23 AM, Michael Hechmer wrote:
> > This topic has been raging on the Tandem@hobbes list for the entire
> > winter.  It's been physicist vs physicist and I am not about to jump
> > into the argument.  A lot depends on the kind of riding you do.  One
> > thing I will offer for those new to the tandem world.  Because of the
> > added rear weight in a tandem the rear tire has better adherence and
> > therefore provides more braking power than the rear brake of a half bike.
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[Steve Palincsar]

Well, for sure you aren't going to lift the back wheel off the ground!


On 04/23/2017 08:23 AM, Michael Hechmer wrote:
This topic has been raging on the Tandem@hobbes list for the entire 
winter.  It's been physicist vs physicist and I am not about to jump 
into the argument.  A lot depends on the kind of riding you do.  One 
thing I will offer for those new to the tandem world.  Because of the 
added rear weight in a tandem the rear tire has better adherence and 
therefore provides more braking power than the rear brake of a half bike.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[Michael Hechmer]

This topic has been raging on the Tandem@hobbes list for the entire winter. 
 It's been physicist vs physicist and I am not about to jump into the 
argument.  A lot depends on the kind of riding you do.  One thing I will 
offer for those new to the tandem world.  Because of the added rear weight 
in a tandem the rear tire has better adherence and therefore provides more 
braking power than the rear brake of a half bike.

Michael

On Friday, April 21, 2017 at 8:02:18 PM UTC-4, René wrote:
>
> Thanks! Good to know that the MiniMotos work so well.
>
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 2:57 PM 'Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>> I have no experience with the Motolites. I needed a v-brake that would 
>> work with drop bar brake levers. If I didn't have a stoker on the back, I 
>> think I could have stood the Santana on the front wheel; those brakes saved 
>> our lives more than once...
>>
>>
>> On Friday, April 21, 2017 at 2:10:43 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you both for the feedback. 
>>>
>>> Do you think the braking power of the MiniMotos is the same as the 
>>> Motolites? I know the Minis are for canti levers and the Motolites are for 
>>> long pull levers, but I'm talking about pure braking power. Are they the 
>>> same or is the longer Motolites with the longer cable pull more powerful?
>>>
>>> René 
>>>
>> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 10:04 AM 'Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
>> I agree with Ray. I replaced the vintage STI/Erickson Gizmo and XT 
 v-brakes/travel agents on my 20y/o Santana with Gevenalle Audax shifters 
 and Paul MiniMotos. The drum brake was controlled by the captain with a 
 Shimano friction bar end shifter. I have disc brakes on my Fargo, Pugsley, 
 and Powderkeg, and I don't think they stop any better than the MiniMotos. 

 -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[René Sterental]

Thanks! Good to know that the MiniMotos work so well.

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 2:57 PM 'Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I have no experience with the Motolites. I needed a v-brake that would
> work with drop bar brake levers. If I didn't have a stoker on the back, I
> think I could have stood the Santana on the front wheel; those brakes saved
> our lives more than once...
>
>
> On Friday, April 21, 2017 at 2:10:43 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>
>> Thank you both for the feedback.
>>
>> Do you think the braking power of the MiniMotos is the same as the
>> Motolites? I know the Minis are for canti levers and the Motolites are for
>> long pull levers, but I'm talking about pure braking power. Are they the
>> same or is the longer Motolites with the longer cable pull more powerful?
>>
>> René
>>
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 10:04 AM 'Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
> I agree with Ray. I replaced the vintage STI/Erickson Gizmo and XT
>>> v-brakes/travel agents on my 20y/o Santana with Gevenalle Audax shifters
>>> and Paul MiniMotos. The drum brake was controlled by the captain with a
>>> Shimano friction bar end shifter. I have disc brakes on my Fargo, Pugsley,
>>> and Powderkeg, and I don't think they stop any better than the MiniMotos.
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

['Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I have no experience with the Motolites. I needed a v-brake that would work 
with drop bar brake levers. If I didn't have a stoker on the back, I think 
I could have stood the Santana on the front wheel; those brakes saved our 
lives more than once...

On Friday, April 21, 2017 at 2:10:43 PM UTC-5, René wrote:

> Thank you both for the feedback. 
>
> Do you think the braking power of the MiniMotos is the same as the 
> Motolites? I know the Minis are for canti levers and the Motolites are for 
> long pull levers, but I'm talking about pure braking power. Are they the 
> same or is the longer Motolites with the longer cable pull more powerful?
>
> René 
>
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 10:04 AM 'Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>> I agree with Ray. I replaced the vintage STI/Erickson Gizmo and XT 
>> v-brakes/travel agents on my 20y/o Santana with Gevenalle Audax shifters 
>> and Paul MiniMotos. The drum brake was controlled by the captain with a 
>> Shimano friction bar end shifter. I have disc brakes on my Fargo, Pugsley, 
>> and Powderkeg, and I don't think they stop any better than the MiniMotos. 
>>
>> -- 
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>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[René Sterental]

Thank you both for the feedback.

Do you think the braking power of the MiniMotos is the same as the
Motolites? I know the Minis are for canti levers and the Motolites are for
long pull levers, but I'm talking about pure braking power. Are they the
same or is the longer Motolites with the longer cable pull more powerful?

René

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 10:04 AM 'Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I agree with Ray. I replaced the vintage STI/Erickson Gizmo and XT
> v-brakes/travel agents on my 20y/o Santana with Gevenalle Audax shifters
> and Paul MiniMotos. The drum brake was controlled by the captain with a
> Shimano friction bar end shifter. I have disc brakes on my Fargo, Pugsley,
> and Powderkeg, and I don't think they stop any better than the MiniMotos.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[Ray Varella]

Rene,
   I've always used shifter cables in mine. I've never given it a second 
thought but I routinely inspect brake cables, doubly so on my tandem. 

Drag brakes also make excellent perking brakes which makes parking a tandem a 
bit easier. 

Ray

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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[René Sterental]

Great insight! Thank you for sharing it.

One question on the barcon for the drag brake. What kind of cable do you
use? Shifter cable that fits in the barcon but may be too thin, or brake
cable that is thicker and may not fit through the barcon? Or were these
Suntour barcons capable of handling both?

René

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 9:02 PM Ray Varella  wrote:

> I've had a tandem for over 30 years and my drag brake is an Arai drum.
> It has been controlled by a Suntour bar on until recently and it is now
> controlled by a Suntour thumbshifter.
>
> In many years of tandeming, with numerous different stokers, it is my
> humble opinion that it is asking a lot of a stoker to be attentive 100% of
> the time so they can apply the drag/emergency brake.
> For a dedicated tandem team that always rides together and the stoker is
> always attentive, things may be different.
> My personal experience is to communicate bumps and intentions to the
> stoker but to handle all the controls for the sake of safety.
>
> I wonder if a barcon pulls enough cable for a disc?
>
> Ray
> Vallejo CA
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[Ray Varella]

I've had a tandem for over 30 years and my drag brake is an Arai drum. 
It has been controlled by a Suntour bar on until recently and it is now 
controlled by a Suntour thumbshifter. 

In many years of tandeming, with numerous different stokers, it is my humble 
opinion that it is asking a lot of a stoker to be attentive 100% of the time so 
they can apply the drag/emergency brake. 
For a dedicated tandem team that always rides together and the stoker is always 
attentive, things may be different. 
My personal experience is to communicate bumps and intentions to the stoker but 
to handle all the controls for the sake of safety. 

I wonder if a barcon pulls enough cable for a disc?

Ray
Vallejo CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[René Sterental]

Ja ja ja ja!!! Very true.

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 7:03 PM ted  wrote:

> If the stoker thinks it's too fast, better slow down.
> First rule of tandems: the stoker is never wrong.
> Second rule: see first rule.
> Third rule: ibid
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[ted]

If the stoker thinks it's too fast, better slow down.
First rule of tandems: the stoker is never wrong.
Second rule: see first rule. 
Third rule: ibid

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Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[René Sterental]

Oh, I see. I did a search on Suntour Barcon and realized you are
controlling the drag brake with a friction shifter. Ingenious!

I wonder if it makes more sense to have the captain control all the
braking, which means that adjusting the drag brake while already on the
descent means releasing the rear V-brake, or have it as Grant configured
it, where the stoker regulates the drag brake.

Just as long as the stoker doesn't want to just force the captain to just
go slower... :-)

René

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:43 PM, René Sterental  wrote:

> The Hubbuhubbuh comes configured with only a rear disc brake, just like
> Santana recommends. When I spoke with Grant last year, he explained the
> concept of the drag brake, and in their demo tandem, it was the stoker who
> controlled it. I can't remember if the lever was different to be able to
> keep it partially depressed to keep the drag constant, or if the stoker
> needed to keep pressing it to slow the bike. I'll check when I go there,
> but am interested in the reference you make to how Eric controlled it with
> the Suntour barcon.
>
> Eric, can you explain it to me?
>
> Thank you,
>
> René
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:41 PM, René Sterental 
> wrote:
>
>> Bill, good catch on their typo! Ja ja ja ja!!!
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Bill Lindsay 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> That truly is a forward-thinking articleconsidering it was written
>>> in the future!  It was written in November of 2017!  Do they have flying
>>> cars in the future?
>>>
>>> Bill "Marty-McFly" Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 3:42:39 PM UTC-7, René wrote:

 As I'm gearing up to enter the wonderful (hopefully for my wife) world
 of tandem riding, and am getting set to build up my upcoming Hubbuhubbuh
 sometime in the next month after the frame is delivered and in between my
 business trips, I'm starting to do some research to better understand how
 tandems work and behave.

 I was debating the merits of having the captain (me) control both front
 and rear V Paul B-brakes and having my stoker control the disc brake, which
 is supposed to be a drag brake (learning what that means), vs. me
 controlling the rear disc brake and the stoker the rear V brake when I
 discovered this excellent article on the Santana website (which is opposed
 to what most people do with tandems). I really enjoyed the explanation, the
 data supporting the claims and the enlightenment it gave me, that I decided
 to share it here for the benefit of other (like me) total newbies to the
 world of tandems.

 It all makes perfect Rivsense.

 *UNDERSTANDING BRAKING*

 Today, all of cycling is infatuated with disc brakes. A common belief
 is that bicycles are finally catching up with the technology of cars and
 motorcycles, where disc brakes proved superior decades earlier. If you
 accept this common premise you might view rim brakes as old-fashioned, or
 destined for the scrap heap. After all, you might be thinking, mountain
 bikes have already switched to discs. Can road bikes be far behind?

 *“Shouldn’t my new tandem come equipped with a shiny pair of disc
 brakes?”*

 Actually, no…

 What’s missing is the simple realization that a bicycle’s rim brakes
 are, in fact, disc brakes. Rim brakes have always been disc brakes. When
 cars and motorcycles were fitted with disc brakes, they caught up to the
 braking efficiency bicyclists had known for a half-century.

 But, you might ask, aren’t motorcycle-style disc brakes more powerful?

 Surprisingly, no. The engineers at Shimano and Avid (companies that
 produce both types) have confirmed Santana’s test results. Even the newest
 and most powerful bicycle disc brakes haven’t yet caught up the power of
 the best V-style (or linear-pull) rim brake.

 The inescapable limitation for the motorcycle-styled brakes is that the
 rotor (or disc) is too small. Anyone who understands bicycle disc brakes
 will agree that with exactly the same hand lever, hand strength and
 caliper, an 8-inch (203mm) disc will stop a bike about twice as effectively
 as a 4-inch disc. This is true because braking power is a function of
 leverage, and is directly proportional to the length of the lever arm
 (which, in the case of all bicycle brakes, is the distance from the axle to
 the braking surface). With a rotor twice as large, the same amount of hand
 power provides doubled braking power, which allows you to stop twice as
 quickly—and in half the distance.

 *More Leverage = Faster Stops*

 A rim brake’s advantage is the diameter of the rim. On a 700c road bike
 the diameter is 622mm. From this we can appreciate that a road bike’s rim
 brake applies power at a 

Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[René Sterental]

The Hubbuhubbuh comes configured with only a rear disc brake, just like
Santana recommends. When I spoke with Grant last year, he explained the
concept of the drag brake, and in their demo tandem, it was the stoker who
controlled it. I can't remember if the lever was different to be able to
keep it partially depressed to keep the drag constant, or if the stoker
needed to keep pressing it to slow the bike. I'll check when I go there,
but am interested in the reference you make to how Eric controlled it with
the Suntour barcon.

Eric, can you explain it to me?

Thank you,

René

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:41 PM, René Sterental  wrote:

> Bill, good catch on their typo! Ja ja ja ja!!!
>
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> That truly is a forward-thinking articleconsidering it was written in
>> the future!  It was written in November of 2017!  Do they have flying cars
>> in the future?
>>
>> Bill "Marty-McFly" Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 3:42:39 PM UTC-7, René wrote:
>>>
>>> As I'm gearing up to enter the wonderful (hopefully for my wife) world
>>> of tandem riding, and am getting set to build up my upcoming Hubbuhubbuh
>>> sometime in the next month after the frame is delivered and in between my
>>> business trips, I'm starting to do some research to better understand how
>>> tandems work and behave.
>>>
>>> I was debating the merits of having the captain (me) control both front
>>> and rear V Paul B-brakes and having my stoker control the disc brake, which
>>> is supposed to be a drag brake (learning what that means), vs. me
>>> controlling the rear disc brake and the stoker the rear V brake when I
>>> discovered this excellent article on the Santana website (which is opposed
>>> to what most people do with tandems). I really enjoyed the explanation, the
>>> data supporting the claims and the enlightenment it gave me, that I decided
>>> to share it here for the benefit of other (like me) total newbies to the
>>> world of tandems.
>>>
>>> It all makes perfect Rivsense.
>>>
>>> *UNDERSTANDING BRAKING*
>>>
>>> Today, all of cycling is infatuated with disc brakes. A common belief is
>>> that bicycles are finally catching up with the technology of cars and
>>> motorcycles, where disc brakes proved superior decades earlier. If you
>>> accept this common premise you might view rim brakes as old-fashioned, or
>>> destined for the scrap heap. After all, you might be thinking, mountain
>>> bikes have already switched to discs. Can road bikes be far behind?
>>>
>>> *“Shouldn’t my new tandem come equipped with a shiny pair of disc
>>> brakes?”*
>>>
>>> Actually, no…
>>>
>>> What’s missing is the simple realization that a bicycle’s rim brakes
>>> are, in fact, disc brakes. Rim brakes have always been disc brakes. When
>>> cars and motorcycles were fitted with disc brakes, they caught up to the
>>> braking efficiency bicyclists had known for a half-century.
>>>
>>> But, you might ask, aren’t motorcycle-style disc brakes more powerful?
>>>
>>> Surprisingly, no. The engineers at Shimano and Avid (companies that
>>> produce both types) have confirmed Santana’s test results. Even the newest
>>> and most powerful bicycle disc brakes haven’t yet caught up the power of
>>> the best V-style (or linear-pull) rim brake.
>>>
>>> The inescapable limitation for the motorcycle-styled brakes is that the
>>> rotor (or disc) is too small. Anyone who understands bicycle disc brakes
>>> will agree that with exactly the same hand lever, hand strength and
>>> caliper, an 8-inch (203mm) disc will stop a bike about twice as effectively
>>> as a 4-inch disc. This is true because braking power is a function of
>>> leverage, and is directly proportional to the length of the lever arm
>>> (which, in the case of all bicycle brakes, is the distance from the axle to
>>> the braking surface). With a rotor twice as large, the same amount of hand
>>> power provides doubled braking power, which allows you to stop twice as
>>> quickly—and in half the distance.
>>>
>>> *More Leverage = Faster Stops*
>>>
>>> A rim brake’s advantage is the diameter of the rim. On a 700c road bike
>>> the diameter is 622mm. From this we can appreciate that a road bike’s rim
>>> brake applies power at a leverage point that’s over three times more
>>> effective than that of an 8-inch disc. While bicycle rim brakes may seem
>>> crude or old fashioned, a 300% difference in leverage (and braking power)
>>> can’t be ignored. Additionally, those who value overall efficiency should
>>> also consider that a rim brake’s “disc” is not only three times larger, the
>>> weight savings of using an aluminum rim as your rotor saves a half-pound
>>> per wheel.
>>>
>>> Single bike riders (along with the engineers at Shimano and Avid) will
>>> reply that disc brakes have more than enough power for single bikes. We
>>> agree. On a single bike, a rear 8-inch disc has enough power to lock the

Re: [RBW] Re: Braking for Tandems - from the Santana website

[René Sterental]

Bill, good catch on their typo! Ja ja ja ja!!!

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> That truly is a forward-thinking articleconsidering it was written in
> the future!  It was written in November of 2017!  Do they have flying cars
> in the future?
>
> Bill "Marty-McFly" Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
> On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 3:42:39 PM UTC-7, René wrote:
>>
>> As I'm gearing up to enter the wonderful (hopefully for my wife) world of
>> tandem riding, and am getting set to build up my upcoming Hubbuhubbuh
>> sometime in the next month after the frame is delivered and in between my
>> business trips, I'm starting to do some research to better understand how
>> tandems work and behave.
>>
>> I was debating the merits of having the captain (me) control both front
>> and rear V Paul B-brakes and having my stoker control the disc brake, which
>> is supposed to be a drag brake (learning what that means), vs. me
>> controlling the rear disc brake and the stoker the rear V brake when I
>> discovered this excellent article on the Santana website (which is opposed
>> to what most people do with tandems). I really enjoyed the explanation, the
>> data supporting the claims and the enlightenment it gave me, that I decided
>> to share it here for the benefit of other (like me) total newbies to the
>> world of tandems.
>>
>> It all makes perfect Rivsense.
>>
>> *UNDERSTANDING BRAKING*
>>
>> Today, all of cycling is infatuated with disc brakes. A common belief is
>> that bicycles are finally catching up with the technology of cars and
>> motorcycles, where disc brakes proved superior decades earlier. If you
>> accept this common premise you might view rim brakes as old-fashioned, or
>> destined for the scrap heap. After all, you might be thinking, mountain
>> bikes have already switched to discs. Can road bikes be far behind?
>>
>> *“Shouldn’t my new tandem come equipped with a shiny pair of disc
>> brakes?”*
>>
>> Actually, no…
>>
>> What’s missing is the simple realization that a bicycle’s rim brakes are,
>> in fact, disc brakes. Rim brakes have always been disc brakes. When cars
>> and motorcycles were fitted with disc brakes, they caught up to the braking
>> efficiency bicyclists had known for a half-century.
>>
>> But, you might ask, aren’t motorcycle-style disc brakes more powerful?
>>
>> Surprisingly, no. The engineers at Shimano and Avid (companies that
>> produce both types) have confirmed Santana’s test results. Even the newest
>> and most powerful bicycle disc brakes haven’t yet caught up the power of
>> the best V-style (or linear-pull) rim brake.
>>
>> The inescapable limitation for the motorcycle-styled brakes is that the
>> rotor (or disc) is too small. Anyone who understands bicycle disc brakes
>> will agree that with exactly the same hand lever, hand strength and
>> caliper, an 8-inch (203mm) disc will stop a bike about twice as effectively
>> as a 4-inch disc. This is true because braking power is a function of
>> leverage, and is directly proportional to the length of the lever arm
>> (which, in the case of all bicycle brakes, is the distance from the axle to
>> the braking surface). With a rotor twice as large, the same amount of hand
>> power provides doubled braking power, which allows you to stop twice as
>> quickly—and in half the distance.
>>
>> *More Leverage = Faster Stops*
>>
>> A rim brake’s advantage is the diameter of the rim. On a 700c road bike
>> the diameter is 622mm. From this we can appreciate that a road bike’s rim
>> brake applies power at a leverage point that’s over three times more
>> effective than that of an 8-inch disc. While bicycle rim brakes may seem
>> crude or old fashioned, a 300% difference in leverage (and braking power)
>> can’t be ignored. Additionally, those who value overall efficiency should
>> also consider that a rim brake’s “disc” is not only three times larger, the
>> weight savings of using an aluminum rim as your rotor saves a half-pound
>> per wheel.
>>
>> Single bike riders (along with the engineers at Shimano and Avid) will
>> reply that disc brakes have more than enough power for single bikes. We
>> agree. On a single bike, a rear 8-inch disc has enough power to lock the
>> rear wheel. On a tandem, however, an 8-inch disc isn’t powerful enough to
>> skid the rear tire. Think we’re wrong? Take any road tandem with a rear
>> disc and (with a stoker aboard) attempt a rear wheel skid on smooth, dry,
>> level pavement (without applying the front brake at the same time). People
>> who try this test are invariably disappointed when they fail to skid the
>> tire. Next, perform the same test on any tandem with a rear V-brake to
>> prove to yourself that rim brakes are considerably more powerful, and will
>> easily skid a tandem’s rear tire.
>>
>> Look at is this way: If a 6-inch rear disc is barely powerful enough for
>> a single, a twice-as-heavy tandem will need a 12-inch disc to obtain the
>> same degree of