Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[René Sterental]

Spring tension? What would that have to do with how well the brakes stop
the bike? Besides, spring tension is the same between the front and rear
brakes.

My plan is this:
- First try lowering the yoke as low as it will go on the Neo-Retros. I can
do it since the Nitto Campee front rack I have doesn't have the strut
connecting it to the fork crown. Note the difference if there is any.
- Swap the Neo-Retros for the other set of Touring brakes, now that I have
the low yoke. Note the difference
- Since I also have a set of MiniMotos I bought to see if they fit on
another bike, I may try them as well, but that would mean a potential
recabling which I'm not sure I want to do. I've also been advised that they
may not fit well with the 50mm fenders, so perhaps I'll just see how they
fit first, before setting them up. It was suggested that if I wanted the
ultimate braking power, I try the Motolites, although they'd require a new
set of V-brake levers, which I'm not so hot on.

Based on all my new learnings, I believe the Touring front and rear will
take care of my "problem".

I'd still want to know why the wide-profile cantilever brakes have
persisted for so long...

René

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:29 PM, Conway Bennett <
captainconwaybenn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'd read the black mountain cycles article on the topic.  Also I believe I
> read on the Paul site that for neo retros 2-3" yoke height is good enough.
> I didn't read thru all the posts but have you adjusted spring tension yet?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/25/2016 04:58 PM, René Sterental wrote:
Spring tension? What would that have to do with how well the brakes 
stop the bike? Besides, spring tension is the same between the front 
and rear brakes.


Well, as a general statement I am not sure, but I do know this one thing 
from personal experience: if you want to really mess up a Paul Racer 
centerpull and make it so it is completely useless as a brake, mess up 
the spring tension.  Last time I had my VO Randonneur in to have the 
brake pads changed, a ham-fisted mechanic decided to play with the 
spring tension and literally made the brake useless as a brake.  It's a 
good thing it's only a couple of miles to the bike shop... and an even 
better thing that the head mechanic had the problem fixed in just a 
minute or two.




My plan is this:
- First try lowering the yoke as low as it will go on the Neo-Retros. 
I can do it since the Nitto Campee front rack I have doesn't have the 
strut connecting it to the fork crown. Note the difference if there is 
any.
- Swap the Neo-Retros for the other set of Touring brakes, now that I 
have the low yoke. Note the difference
- Since I also have a set of MiniMotos I bought to see if they fit on 
another bike, I may try them as well, but that would mean a potential 
recabling which I'm not sure I want to do. I've also been advised that 
they may not fit well with the 50mm fenders, so perhaps I'll just see 
how they fit first, before setting them up. It was suggested that if I 
wanted the ultimate braking power, I try the Motolites, although 
they'd require a new set of V-brake levers, which I'm not so hot on.


Based on all my new learnings, I believe the Touring front and rear 
will take care of my "problem".


I'd still want to know why the wide-profile cantilever brakes have 
persisted for so long...



Here's some of what Paul says about the Neo retro:
/Note: These are very powerful brakes and have a tendency to overpower 
thin tubed frames (in any material). For none-too-stout frames and 
forks we recommend our //Touring Canti 
//. Also, 
the arms stick out a lot! For smaller frames, bikes with bags, and 
people with large feet there can be some interference problems, in 
which case the Touring Canti might be more appropriate./


Clearly they are of the opinion that the Neo retro is the more powerful 
of the two, and honestly after all this time you'd think they'd know 
their own products.






René

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:29 PM, Conway Bennett 
> wrote:


I'd read the black mountain cycles article on the topic.  Also I
believe I read on the Paul site that for neo retros 2-3" yoke
height is good enough.  I didn't read thru all the posts but have
you adjusted spring tension yet?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Ron Mc]

All I can tell you is my Paul touring cantis f/r are the best brakes I've 
ever squeezed.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Justin August]

I think, to be fair, "Shimano levers" was in reference to modern STI brifters. 
Maybe not but I'd assume so given the long history of success of the brake-only 
levers and cantis from Rivendell and others. 

-Justin, Oakland

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Michael Hechmer]

That's right.  I was thinking specifically of the STI levers.  

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 8:26:01 PM UTC-4, Justin August wrote:
>
> I think, to be fair, "Shimano levers" was in reference to modern STI 
> brifters. Maybe not but I'd assume so given the long history of success of 
> the brake-only levers and cantis from Rivendell and others. 
>
> -Justin, Oakland
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Michael Hechmer]

That's right Steve, and looking at your setup, the straddle seems to be 
4-5" up and at about 65-75 degrees.  As the brake arm lifts it moves toward 
90 degrees and should gain power.

BTW, nice looking bike.
Michael

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 6:15:22 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
> On 08/26/2016 06:01 PM, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
>  I suspect that Shimano levers simply pull too much cable to work well 
> with cantis.  I used Ultegra STI levers very successfully with Ultegra 
> brakes, but when I put them on a bike with Shimano cantis, I all but ended 
> up inside the back of a pickup truck.
>
>
> I have Shimano road aero brake levers on my MAP, which has Deore XT high 
> profile cantilevers.  They work just fine.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Steve Palincsar]

What do you do to resolve road brake lever cable pull incompatibilities?


On 08/30/2016 04:04 PM, Daniel Jackson wrote:

Yeah. Clearance is the crux of it all. If you could accommodate 50mm tires with 
fenders under a v brake, many of us who use cantis might be inclined to try out 
some V options.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Jay Lonner]

I would be tempted to try Motolites if I could find long-pull reverse brake 
levers. Paul stopped making them a few years ago, and I don't know of any other 
models out there. I'd love to buy a used pair of the Paul levers if any list 
members have a set for sale. Or maybe someone can point me in the direction of 
other long-pull reverse levers? I don't want to mess around with Travel Agents 
and the like. 

Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Brian Campbell]

Tektro/Cane Creek and Dia Compe make road bar levers for v-brakes. There 
are no brifters that I am aware of but I have used the Dia Compe 287v with 
shimano bar ends for shifting. I don't like things like travel agents etc 
and avoid them.

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 4:05:54 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> What do you do to resolve road brake lever cable pull incompatibilities? 
>
>
> On 08/30/2016 04:04 PM, Daniel Jackson wrote: 
> > Yeah. Clearance is the crux of it all. If you could accommodate 50mm 
> tires with fenders under a v brake, many of us who use cantis might be 
> inclined to try out some V options. 
> > 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Philip Kim]

Paul v brake levers specifically

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilever brake question...

[Philip Kim]

Jay I got v brake light levers pleas email me philipw...@gmail.com as I'm on 
mobile now

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