Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
And judging by the colors seen, this must have been Red Green's bike From: Angus angusle...@sbcglobal.net To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, December 25, 2010 6:25:30 AM Subject: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again Ray, That takes the cake! Merry Christmass everyone! Angus On Dec 24, 11:30 pm, Way Rebb grayc...@mac.com wrote: Zip tied duct tape mud flaps half way through their second winter (okay a No Cal winter): http://www.flickr.com/photos/wrebb/5289538488/ A good rugged bike deserves good rugged mud flaps. Of course if this was a custom or a Betty I'd use Monster Tape, but duct tape is plenty good for the Hillborne. :) -Ray -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
Oh my !!! Only in the underground environment.. My Western Electric mentor told me NEVER use zip ties. Pros always sew their cables...(insert smiley face here) So now, I can't help it..I sew pumps to top bars, cable housing to the frame, bags to handlbar or saddle..christmas lights to railings, plants to stakes. D.L. On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:02 PM, George Schick bhim...@gmail.com wrote: I learned quickly when I began working in the telecom industry (over 40 years ago) that BLACK zip-ties are the ONLY ones that will remain largely unaffected by weather and UV radiation. All other colors eventually fade, crack, and break. That's also the reason why the outer sheath on plastic insulated telephone cable is black. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
Not to mention the expert color coordination and camouflage. The tape of invisibility, juxtaposed with the brightest and the most reflective bits. A study in beausage. Melly Kalikimaka all! On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 10:30 PM, Way Rebb grayc...@mac.com wrote: Zip tied duct tape mud flaps half way through their second winter (okay a No Cal winter): http://www.flickr.com/photos/wrebb/5289538488/ A good rugged bike deserves good rugged mud flaps. Of course if this was a custom or a Betty I'd use Monster Tape, but duct tape is plenty good for the Hillborne. :) -Ray -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Bill Gibson Tempe, Arizona, USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
I love it! Sent from my iPad On Dec 24, 2010, at 1:50 AM, rob markwardt robmar...@hotmail.com wrote: I always tell my 7th grade students...focus on yourself, not what others are doing. On Dec 23, 10:34 pm, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 23, 9:15 pm, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: I am with Robert here in his deprecation of zip ties: why use zip ties if you can find something that works and looks better without (third condition) undue (note the qualification) exertion or expense? A pop rivet or simple nut 'n' bolt are often very easy, are certainly sturdier and, IME, look better in most places. My response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8cfeature=related ;) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
Well said Patrick and may I add-every person reading this is a good corporate citizen. Sent from my iPad On Dec 24, 2010, at 12:43 AM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote: Well, once you get your mind right zip ties just might be the preferred solution in many applications. Nuts, screws, and washers are so yesterday. ...as you can see, I'm converted. -JimD On Dec 23, 2010, at 9:15 PM, PATRICK MOORE wrote: I am with Robert here in his deprecation of zip ties: why use zip ties if you can find something that works and looks better without (third condition) undue (note the qualification) exertion or expense? A pop rivet or simple nut 'n' bolt are often very easy, are certainly sturdier and, IME, look better in most places. Beside, any Rivendell is an elitist bike, even a slumming Sam Hill (What? You say that $1250 for f + f + hs is not elitist? Tell that to the next person buying a $500 Trek); and we might as well admit that and dress them up accordingly. OTOH, if someone wants to use zip ties on his $10K Cervelo or $8K Rene Herse or $2500 Sam Hill -- to attach his duct tape mudflap, of course -- why not? It's just weird, not evil, and the world is usually better off for a little harmless weirdness -- lest we all become excessively good little corporate citizens with bland hair and in bland suits. There. I've contributed both to the objection and the defense and now I feel better. On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 5:36 PM, erik jensen bicyclen...@gmail.com wrote: robert, for as long as i've been on this list, any number of folks have felt the need, as you did, to tell us how stupid/silly/hack we are for putting zip-ties on thousand dollar bicycles. and, for as long as i've been on this list, people have been responded to appropriately to insult with defense of the practice. it's not surprising, if a bit boring. erik On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 6:25 PM, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote: Well said. Regardless of one's motivation and intentions, these are pricey bikes to get to the final build-up. Not trying to appear as some elitist, but it is what what is. Grant uses these things because he's experimenting with stuff. I've never received any bike from them built-up with plastic. Geez why does everything have to become some class-warfare thing? It's a comment on workmanship not status. On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:56 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote: Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'. They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems. Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even bailing wire. -JimD On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Beth H wrote: On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote: With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a few basic tools and use the correct fasteners. For a get-you-home or temp repair, OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack. I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider with a job and bicycle prorities, the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of hack. For evidence, I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which showed a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on Beausage (a word I still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence because it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that is well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays. While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties. I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke. Beth -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
...and not in anyone of those situations listed below, will you find a Ty-Wrap used to secure metal to metal. Sent from my iPad On Dec 24, 2010, at 7:28 AM, Angus angusle...@sbcglobal.net wrote: http://www-public.tnb.com/ps/pubint/index.cgi?a=heritage From the Thomas Betts web site: In 1958, Thomas Betts secured a place in engineering history when it developed the Ty-Rap® cable tie to facilitate assembling wire harnesses in airplanes. In the first month, sales were $350. Today, Thomas Betts sells hundreds of millions of dollars of cable ties in 14 colors, 15 designs, 10 materials and multiple lengths. TB cable ties can be found on thousands of products ranging from motorcycles to spacecraft. ...and bicycles! I'm not sure about the specific inventor(s), but the company seems to be doing OK. Thomas and Betts makes Ty-Raps with a metal ratchet (typically plastic)...I had not thought about this before, but there appears to be a hierarchy in the Zip-tie/Ty-Rap market. No more cheap Zip-ties for me! Angus On Dec 23, 2:44 pm, Beth H periwinkle...@yahoo.com wrote: On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote: With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a few basic tools and use the correct fasteners. For a get-you-home or temp repair, OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack. I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider with a job and bicycle prorities, the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of hack. For evidence, I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which showed a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on Beausage (a word I still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence because it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that is well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays. While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties. I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke. Beth -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
The google tells the tale: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_tie Inventor is said to Thomas Betts - seems to be a corporate creation. -Jimd On Dec 23, 2010, at 10:04 PM, grant wrote: I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke. Beth THIS---forget about the pro-Riv context or any associations---THIS quote belongs in a coffee table book. I wish I'd said it, but I'm glad to know the person who did. There's only one complicated word in it (inventor), but it was necessary in this case. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners- bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'. They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems. Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even bailing wire. -JimD On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Beth H wrote: On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote: With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a few basic tools and use the correct fasteners. For a get-you-home or temp repair, OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack. I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider with a job and bicycle prorities, the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of hack. For evidence, I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which showed a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on Beausage (a word I still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence because it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that is well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays. While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties. I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke. Beth -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners- bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:56 -0800, JimD wrote: Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'. They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems. Yes, but the Saluki doesn't present those problems. And yes, in this case zip ties are a hack and all the koolaid in the world isn't going to change that. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 14:59 -0800, Thomas Lynn Skean wrote: And, though I love the look of metal fenders and am soon to try them out, let us not pretend that metal fenders are uniformly better in every way than chromoplastic or even normal plastic fenders. (Chromo)plastic fenders have practical advantages. Metal has practical advantages. Either is both a choice and a compromise. Well, metal fenders look better, work better and weigh less. Plastic fenders are cheaper and easier to remove. Anything else? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
Well said. Regardless of one's motivation and intentions, these are pricey bikes to get to the final build-up. Not trying to appear as some elitist, but it is what what is. Grant uses these things because he's experimenting with stuff. I've never received any bike from them built-up with plastic. Geez why does everything have to become some class-warfare thing? It's a comment on workmanship not status. On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:56 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote: Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'. They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems. Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even bailing wire. -JimD On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Beth H wrote: On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote: With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a few basic tools and use the correct fasteners. For a get-you-home or temp repair, OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack. I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider with a job and bicycle prorities, the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of hack. For evidence, I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which showed a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on Beausage (a word I still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence because it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that is well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays. While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties. I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke. Beth -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
Zip ties have a place and many viable uses. A hack in one place, a good fastener in another. Wouldn't using zips on the mud flap give more clearance for tires? I know those lock nuts are limiting on my ahh. Could be zips are even practical ... At times. H Kelly Sent from my iPhone On Dec 23, 2010, at 6:25 PM, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote: Well said. Regardless of one's motivation and intentions, these are pricey bikes to get to the final build-up. Not trying to appear as some elitist, but it is what what is. Grant uses these things because he's experimenting with stuff. I've never received any bike from them built-up with plastic. Geez why does everything have to become some class-warfare thing? It's a comment on workmanship not status. On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:56 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote: Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'. They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems. Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even bailing wire. -JimD On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Beth H wrote: On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote: With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a few basic tools and use the correct fasteners. For a get-you-home or temp repair, OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack. I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider with a job and bicycle prorities, the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of hack. For evidence, I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which showed a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on Beausage (a word I still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence because it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that is well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays. While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties. I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke. Beth -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
Metal fenders front anyway are longer and will protect that light mounted in a mini rack. Kelly Sent from my iPhone On Dec 23, 2010, at 6:31 PM, Erik C erikdcarl...@gmail.com wrote: Well, metal fenders look better, work better and weigh less. Plastic fenders are cheaper and easier to remove. Anything else? I'd add durability to the chromoplastic side. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
robert, for as long as i've been on this list, any number of folks have felt the need, as you did, to tell us how stupid/silly/hack we are for putting zip-ties on thousand dollar bicycles. and, for as long as i've been on this list, people have been responded to appropriately to insult with defense of the practice. it's not surprising, if a bit boring. erik On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 6:25 PM, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.comwrote: Well said. Regardless of one's motivation and intentions, these are pricey bikes to get to the final build-up. Not trying to appear as some elitist, but it is what what is. Grant uses these things because he's experimenting with stuff. I've never received any bike from them built-up with plastic. Geez why does everything have to become some class-warfare thing? It's a comment on workmanship not status. On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:56 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote: Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'. They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems. Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even bailing wire. -JimD On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Beth H wrote: On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote: With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a few basic tools and use the correct fasteners. For a get-you-home or temp repair, OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack. I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider with a job and bicycle prorities, the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of hack. For evidence, I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which showed a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on Beausage (a word I still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence because it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that is well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays. While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties. I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke. Beth -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- oakland, ca bikenoir.blogspot.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 16:31 -0800, Erik C wrote: Well, metal fenders look better, work better and weigh less. Plastic fenders are cheaper and easier to remove. Anything else? I'd add durability to the chromoplastic side. That appears to be a function of how well the metal fenders are mounted. Plastic fenders eventually will crack. Some well-mounted metal fenders have lasted half a century; other, poorly mounted ones have failed quickly. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:13 -0800, rperks wrote: I have been looking at all the pictures of the Saluki frames I could find, and nowhere did I see the fittings for the mud flap. Mud flaps are mounted by bolting them to the bottom edge of the fender. http://www.freewebs.com/palincss/angle_sideview_bag_street.jpg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
Not sure where the insult part comes in, I'm certainly not intentionally insulting anyone, it's a free country. Let me explain further. I've been reading this list forever also. People buy these bikes ($3K for a custom), hang the finest components they can afford on them, and obsessively discuss the most minute details. These are not Box-store specials (Yugo's), they are a higher quality, hand-made object that will give hours/days/weeks, etc of use/pleasure...whatever. Let's liken them a nicer auto (you pick). Would you put, say, some garbage wheel cover on your better auto, the same as you would on your Yugo? Probably not. It's not a status thing, for the f-ing 5,000th time. It's a quality of workmanship thing. Wire-tie the cables for your bike computer? Absolutely. Wire-tie a rack, or other bolt-able, screw-able components as a permanent set-up because of some aversion to drills or hand-tools, or work. I'm just not seeing it. Not a big thing. Every mistake one can make wrenching a bicycle (or motorcycle for that matter)-I've made 'em. Can't say as I liked doing that. That's all bro. On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 7:36 PM, erik jensen bicyclen...@gmail.com wrote: robert, for as long as i've been on this list, any number of folks have felt the need, as you did, to tell us how stupid/silly/hack we are for putting zip-ties on thousand dollar bicycles. and, for as long as i've been on this list, people have been responded to appropriately to insult with defense of the practice. it's not surprising, if a bit boring. erik On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 6:25 PM, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.comwrote: Well said. Regardless of one's motivation and intentions, these are pricey bikes to get to the final build-up. Not trying to appear as some elitist, but it is what what is. Grant uses these things because he's experimenting with stuff. I've never received any bike from them built-up with plastic. Geez why does everything have to become some class-warfare thing? It's a comment on workmanship not status. On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:56 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote: Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'. They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems. Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even bailing wire. -JimD On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Beth H wrote: On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote: With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a few basic tools and use the correct fasteners. For a get-you-home or temp repair, OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack. I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider with a job and bicycle prorities, the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of hack. For evidence, I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which showed a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on Beausage (a word I still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence because it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that is well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays. While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties. I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke. Beth -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
The ones with zip-ties through the bosses. (Just kidding!) On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 7:46 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 16:31 -0800, Erik C wrote: Well, metal fenders look better, work better and weigh less. Plastic fenders are cheaper and easier to remove. Anything else? I'd add durability to the chromoplastic side. That appears to be a function of how well the metal fenders are mounted. Plastic fenders eventually will crack. Some well-mounted metal fenders have lasted half a century; other, poorly mounted ones have failed quickly. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
...and on that note, Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night! On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 23, 4:18 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote: These bikes may get ridden more (doubtful), but they most certainly will be repaired more. I'm thinking mostly of Grant's zip-tie-ing mud-flaps and fenders. It's hack work. I don't see how a zip tied fender flap will lead to a bike getting repaired more. The only Rivendell I had that broke (and was subsequently repaired) had plastic fenders with appropriately attached VO leather mud flaps. Perhaps it was the plastic fenders that caused the frame to break? All kidding aside, I know some people are fine with hack fixes and others just want to do things right. I've used metal fenders, correctly installed, with zip tied flaps and plastic fenders with bolted on leather mud flaps and both seem to do a good job of keeping crud off my feet and the frame. The only fender malfunction I had was on a 300k brevet when a bracket on my fender came loose. This issue has since been reolved by usign some Loctite. When I first got a Wald basket for my Nitto mini front rack on my QB I wasn't really that enthusiastic about attaching the basket with zip- ties but it works fine. I'm a randonneur and always have a few zip ties with me on brevets. Grant once made a comment about his bikes being like him, slightly disheveled. I like that. I'm certainly disheveled. My QB is definitely disheveled. Right now the Homer is looking good but that'll change... --mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comrbw-owners-bunch%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
Well the 'correct' use of zip ties involves purposeful, even tasteful, selection of color. Otherwise, you are correct sir, it's just another hack. -JimD On Dec 23, 2010, at 2:59 PM, Thomas Lynn Skean wrote: But to me they really do look a lot better. Black zip-ties are such a hack. :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
One man's koolaid is another man's pinot noir. -JimD On Dec 23, 2010, at 2:18 PM, Steve Palincsar wrote: On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:56 -0800, JimD wrote: Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'. They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems. Yes, but the Saluki doesn't present those problems. And yes, in this case zip ties are a hack and all the koolaid in the world isn't going to change that. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners- bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 18:03 -0800, JimD wrote: One man's koolaid is another man's pinot noir. Bottoms up! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
Wow! I've always used zipties for fendres and baskets. I'm curious how one efficiently mounts a basket to a front rack with anything other than zip ties? Pix to back it up? From: Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Thu, December 23, 2010 5:26:24 PM Subject: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again On Dec 23, 2:18 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:56 -0800, JimD wrote: Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'. They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems. Yes, but the Saluki doesn't present those problems. And yes, in this case zip ties are a hack and all the koolaid in the world isn't going to change that. I'm pretty sure we're talking about mudflaps, not fenders. Nuts and bolts for mudflaps are more of a hack than zipties. The couture solution would be to have two brass snaps on the trailing edge of every Honjo fender, and 'artisan' mudflaps that matched... Philip -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
I am with Robert here in his deprecation of zip ties: why use zip ties if you can find something that works and looks better without (third condition) undue (note the qualification) exertion or expense? A pop rivet or simple nut 'n' bolt are often very easy, are certainly sturdier and, IME, look better in most places. Beside, any Rivendell is an elitist bike, even a slumming Sam Hill (What? You say that $1250 for f + f + hs is not elitist? Tell that to the next person buying a $500 Trek); and we might as well admit that and dress them up accordingly. OTOH, if someone wants to use zip ties on his $10K Cervelo or $8K Rene Herse or $2500 Sam Hill -- to attach his duct tape mudflap, of course -- why not? It's just weird, not evil, and the world is usually better off for a little harmless weirdness -- lest we all become excessively good little corporate citizens with bland hair and in bland suits. There. I've contributed both to the objection and the defense and now I feel better. On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 5:36 PM, erik jensen bicyclen...@gmail.com wrote: robert, for as long as i've been on this list, any number of folks have felt the need, as you did, to tell us how stupid/silly/hack we are for putting zip-ties on thousand dollar bicycles. and, for as long as i've been on this list, people have been responded to appropriately to insult with defense of the practice. it's not surprising, if a bit boring. erik On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 6:25 PM, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote: Well said. Regardless of one's motivation and intentions, these are pricey bikes to get to the final build-up. Not trying to appear as some elitist, but it is what what is. Grant uses these things because he's experimenting with stuff. I've never received any bike from them built-up with plastic. Geez why does everything have to become some class-warfare thing? It's a comment on workmanship not status. On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:56 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote: Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'. They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems. Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even bailing wire. -JimD On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Beth H wrote: On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote: With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a few basic tools and use the correct fasteners. For a get-you-home or temp repair, OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack. I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider with a job and bicycle prorities, the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of hack. For evidence, I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which showed a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on Beausage (a word I still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence because it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that is well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays. While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties. I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke. Beth -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- oakland, ca bikenoir.blogspot.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
Toe straps, of course. What else? -- So much more elegant. (Sorry, no pix -- my last basket went out the door some five years ago; but trust me ...) On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Wow! I've always used zipties for fendres and baskets. I'm curious how one efficiently mounts a basket to a front rack with anything other than zip ties? Pix to back it up? From: Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Thu, December 23, 2010 5:26:24 PM Subject: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again On Dec 23, 2:18 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:56 -0800, JimD wrote: Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'. They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems. Yes, but the Saluki doesn't present those problems. And yes, in this case zip ties are a hack and all the koolaid in the world isn't going to change that. I'm pretty sure we're talking about mudflaps, not fenders. Nuts and bolts for mudflaps are more of a hack than zipties. The couture solution would be to have two brass snaps on the trailing edge of every Honjo fender, and 'artisan' mudflaps that matched... Philip -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at resumespecialt...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
Patrick, Thank you for the below argument!! Im quoting you to my wife as an excuse to purchase the Poncho and Rain Hat on Riv which she thinks is weird.. and I just quoted it to her verbally as I stated I needed it for my mental well being.. saftey and individualism. Owe ya a beer next one of these days. Kelly PATRICK MOORE wrote: -- why not? It's just weird, not evil, and the world is usually better off for a little harmless weirdness -- lest we all become excessively good little corporate citizens with bland hair and in bland suits. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
^^^!Velcro!^^^ Michael DiBenedetto www.lifeforcemassage.com 3190 Old Tunnel Rd. Suite C Lafayette, CA. 94549 925-899-2785 On Dec 23, 2010, at 6:56 PM, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Wow! I've always used zipties for fendres and baskets. I'm curious how one efficiently mounts a basket to a front rack with anything other than zip ties? Pix to back it up? From: Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Thu, December 23, 2010 5:26:24 PM Subject: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again On Dec 23, 2:18 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 13:56 -0800, JimD wrote: Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'. They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems. Yes, but the Saluki doesn't present those problems. And yes, in this case zip ties are a hack and all the koolaid in the world isn't going to change that. I'm pretty sure we're talking about mudflaps, not fenders. Nuts and bolts for mudflaps are more of a hack than zipties. The couture solution would be to have two brass snaps on the trailing edge of every Honjo fender, and 'artisan' mudflaps that matched... Philip -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Vindicated Once Again
Well, once you get your mind right zip ties just might be the preferred solution in many applications. Nuts, screws, and washers are so yesterday. ...as you can see, I'm converted. -JimD On Dec 23, 2010, at 9:15 PM, PATRICK MOORE wrote: I am with Robert here in his deprecation of zip ties: why use zip ties if you can find something that works and looks better without (third condition) undue (note the qualification) exertion or expense? A pop rivet or simple nut 'n' bolt are often very easy, are certainly sturdier and, IME, look better in most places. Beside, any Rivendell is an elitist bike, even a slumming Sam Hill (What? You say that $1250 for f + f + hs is not elitist? Tell that to the next person buying a $500 Trek); and we might as well admit that and dress them up accordingly. OTOH, if someone wants to use zip ties on his $10K Cervelo or $8K Rene Herse or $2500 Sam Hill -- to attach his duct tape mudflap, of course -- why not? It's just weird, not evil, and the world is usually better off for a little harmless weirdness -- lest we all become excessively good little corporate citizens with bland hair and in bland suits. There. I've contributed both to the objection and the defense and now I feel better. On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 5:36 PM, erik jensen bicyclen...@gmail.com wrote: robert, for as long as i've been on this list, any number of folks have felt the need, as you did, to tell us how stupid/silly/hack we are for putting zip-ties on thousand dollar bicycles. and, for as long as i've been on this list, people have been responded to appropriately to insult with defense of the practice. it's not surprising, if a bit boring. erik On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 6:25 PM, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote: Well said. Regardless of one's motivation and intentions, these are pricey bikes to get to the final build-up. Not trying to appear as some elitist, but it is what what is. Grant uses these things because he's experimenting with stuff. I've never received any bike from them built-up with plastic. Geez why does everything have to become some class- warfare thing? It's a comment on workmanship not status. On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 4:56 PM, JimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote: Seriously, if you get your mind right (and it took some time for me to do so), zip ties aren't a 'hack'. They're an ingenious solution to many faster/fastening problems. Of course some have made the same claims for duct tape and even bailing wire. -JimD On Dec 23, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Beth H wrote: On Dec 23, 2:16 pm, robert zeidler zeidler.rob...@gmail.com wrote: With no disrespect to anyone, especially during this joyous time, plastic ties on a +/- $4000.00 bike is just atrocious. Learn the use of a few basic tools and use the correct fasteners. For a get-you-home or temp repair, OK, but in the words of my first shop-teacher, it's hack. I suggest that while Rivendell definitely markets to the rider with a job and bicycle prorities, the underlying aesthetic of Rivendell bikes is absolutely a loving and benign sense of hack. For evidence, I submit the old tan Atlantis flyer of several years ago, which showed a number of Atlantii (??) in various types of build-up, with all manner of baskets, zip-ties and other funkinesses on them. I'd also look up Grant's multiple articles/photo essays on Beausage (a word I still stumble over when I actually try to use it in a sentence because it feels made-up), all of which practically glorify the bike that is well-ridden, a bit dirty, maybe even a little dented and has paint worn off the edges of the fork crown and all the stays. While some folks may ride a $4,000.00 bike because it's spendy or fancy, some folks may choose to ride a $4,000.00 Rivendell simply because it's well-made, and durable enough to see them out. And for those of us who fall into that category, there are lovely zip-ties. I hope the inventor of the zip-tie didn't die broke. Beth -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com . To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com . To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com . To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
