Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

2014-02-10 Thread Jason
Field mods aren't exactly production are they
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: John Pittelli jpl...@yahoo.com
Sender: rctankcombat@googlegroups.com
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2014 21:07:49 
To: tank clubrctankcombat@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: rctankcombat@googlegroups.com
Subject: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

Spent a few hours today adding an upgrade to the Abomination.  An observer 
mumbled that it would be outlawed. Oh well, I leave that to our forum to 
decide. Check out the last page of T-79.

On another note, while reading a roster for Operation Hercules , it seems that 
one of the 12 Pz II Ausf J's in the Bethke Co. was field outfitted with the 
75mm short barrel howitzer from the early PzIV's. 
I found this photo of that tank . PzII is on the left  While unfortunately the 
gun is not visible, you can clearly see  the standard 75mm ammo box stowed on 
the right rear fender. 

To the rules committee:

I will be making this variation. Please upgrade the ammo allotment from 30 
rounds to 40 rounds. Thank you in advance for your consideration. Strength 
through a better Abomination. 


Oberst Johann

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Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

2014-02-10 Thread TyngTech
Field mods aren't exactly production are they

Agreed

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Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

2014-02-10 Thread isaac goldman
Furthermore, i suspect adding the 75 l24 would handicap the vehicle in
other ways, such as limited traverse speed on the turret...

And as a side note, the 75 l24 was an infantry support weapon. Its
capabilities against enemy armor are negligible.


On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:08 AM, TyngTech steve...@gmail.com wrote:

 Field mods aren't exactly production are they

 Agreed

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Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

2014-02-10 Thread Derek Engelhaupt
Don't think we want to get into this about the function of a particular gun
- as in whether or not it was used against vehicles or personnel or
bunkers.  If that were the case, my Sturmtiger would be considered arty.
 Even assault guns can be fired as direct fire weapons.  An HE round fired
at a hard target can do damage even if it's only to the crew.  Take out the
crew = worthless tank.

Derek


On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:13 AM, isaac goldman panthergol...@gmail.comwrote:

 Furthermore, i suspect adding the 75 l24 would handicap the vehicle in
 other ways, such as limited traverse speed on the turret...

 And as a side note, the 75 l24 was an infantry support weapon. Its
 capabilities against enemy armor are negligible.


 On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:08 AM, TyngTech steve...@gmail.com wrote:

 Field mods aren't exactly production are they

 Agreed

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Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

2014-02-10 Thread TyngTech
The issue here is not whether a gun is a mortar or not.  The rules do not 
differentiate between gun types.  The issue is whether a field expedient 
applied to one vehicle constitutes a new class of production vehicle.  I 
say it does not.  If you want to open this door, than any tank with a 
logged tied to the front of it by its crew (as extra armor) would bump it 
up to 4 hits.

Steve


On Monday, February 10, 2014 9:13:49 AM UTC-5, True North Armouries wrote:

 Furthermore, i suspect adding the 75 l24 would handicap the vehicle in 
 other ways, such as limited traverse speed on the turret... 

 And as a side note, the 75 l24 was an infantry support weapon. Its 
 capabilities against enemy armor are negligible. 


 On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:08 AM, TyngTech stev...@gmail.com javascript:
  wrote:

 Field mods aren't exactly production are they

 Agreed
  
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Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

2014-02-10 Thread isaac goldman
Indeed... if field expedient modifications count,  it opens the door to a
raft of dubious rules lawyering. Do sandbags or track links welded to the
front hull count too?
On 2014-02-10 11:43 AM, TyngTech steve...@gmail.com wrote:

 The issue here is not whether a gun is a mortar or not.  The rules do not
 differentiate between gun types.  The issue is whether a field expedient
 applied to one vehicle constitutes a new class of production vehicle.  I
 say it does not.  If you want to open this door, than any tank with a
 logged tied to the front of it by its crew (as extra armor) would bump it
 up to 4 hits.

 Steve


 On Monday, February 10, 2014 9:13:49 AM UTC-5, True North Armouries wrote:

 Furthermore, i suspect adding the 75 l24 would handicap the vehicle in
 other ways, such as limited traverse speed on the turret...

 And as a side note, the 75 l24 was an infantry support weapon. Its
 capabilities against enemy armor are negligible.


 On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 8:08 AM, TyngTech stev...@gmail.com wrote:

 Field mods aren't exactly production are they

 Agreed

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Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

2014-02-10 Thread Frank Pittelli
Before everyone gets their panties in a twist, there are a couple things 
you should know:


John posted the story and picture as a joke because (a) the list has 
been quiet recently and (b) he was reminding me to post the following:


At the recent Tank Expo held in Annapolis, a Rules Committee was 
convened to discuss a number of proposals, with the following results:


a) Joe Sommer officially proposed Derek's suggestion to grant 40/4 
ratings to all tanks, regardless of model size, gun size or armor 
thickness.  That proposal was an alternative to others made in a lengthy 
discussion on the mailing list back in December. Joe has also made 
similar suggestions over the past couple of years. After a short 
discussion, the Rules Committee voted to PASS the rule change, 
implemented as updates to the Offensive Rating (Rule III.3) and the 
Defensive Rating (Rule III.4) rules.


b) Doug Conn proposed that Armored Cars be granted the same frontal hit 
exemption as tanks to encourage them to be built.  Other members had no 
problem with that change, provided that the speed of Armored Cars was 
restricted.  The Rules Committee voted to PASS the rule change, 
implemented as an update to the Frontal hits definition in the 
Defensive Rating rule (Rule III.3) and the addition of the following rule:


Rule IV.6.e - The maximum speed of an Armored Car may not be
greater than the maximum speed of the fastest tank participating
in the battle.

c) To maintain the balance of the game, the speed limit on Armored Cars 
was also extended to Support Vehicles, resulting in the addition of the 
following rule:


Rule IV.7.k - The maximum speed of a Support Vehicle may not be
greater than the maximum speed of the fastest tank participating
in the battle.

d) The Rules Committee discussed Doug Conn's proposal to limit the rate 
of fire for all markers.  No consensus was reached, other than to 
conduct some battlefield experiments to see how it might work.  To that 
end, the Navarone Gun, and possibly other artillery pieces, will be 
converted on a volunteer basis to electronically restrict their firing 
rate (e.g., 1 second pause after firing each paintball).


On 2/10/2014 12:06 PM, isaac goldman wrote:

Indeed... if field expedient modifications count,  it opens the door to
a raft of dubious rules lawyering. Do sandbags or track links welded to
the front hull count too?


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Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

2014-02-10 Thread isaac goldman
Question ; how will the armoured car speed rule be enforced? If T040 breaks
down in the morning and cant make it to the afternoon battle, do all the
armoured cars have to be handicapped?
On 2014-02-10 2:13 PM, Frank Pittelli frank.pitte...@gmail.com wrote:

 Before everyone gets their panties in a twist, there are a couple things
 you should know:

 John posted the story and picture as a joke because (a) the list has been
 quiet recently and (b) he was reminding me to post the following:

 At the recent Tank Expo held in Annapolis, a Rules Committee was convened
 to discuss a number of proposals, with the following results:

 a) Joe Sommer officially proposed Derek's suggestion to grant 40/4 ratings
 to all tanks, regardless of model size, gun size or armor thickness.  That
 proposal was an alternative to others made in a lengthy discussion on the
 mailing list back in December. Joe has also made similar suggestions over
 the past couple of years. After a short discussion, the Rules Committee
 voted to PASS the rule change, implemented as updates to the Offensive
 Rating (Rule III.3) and the Defensive Rating (Rule III.4) rules.

 b) Doug Conn proposed that Armored Cars be granted the same frontal hit
 exemption as tanks to encourage them to be built.  Other members had no
 problem with that change, provided that the speed of Armored Cars was
 restricted.  The Rules Committee voted to PASS the rule change, implemented
 as an update to the Frontal hits definition in the Defensive Rating rule
 (Rule III.3) and the addition of the following rule:

 Rule IV.6.e - The maximum speed of an Armored Car may not be
 greater than the maximum speed of the fastest tank participating
 in the battle.

 c) To maintain the balance of the game, the speed limit on Armored Cars
 was also extended to Support Vehicles, resulting in the addition of the
 following rule:

 Rule IV.7.k - The maximum speed of a Support Vehicle may not be
 greater than the maximum speed of the fastest tank participating
 in the battle.

 d) The Rules Committee discussed Doug Conn's proposal to limit the rate of
 fire for all markers.  No consensus was reached, other than to conduct some
 battlefield experiments to see how it might work.  To that end, the
 Navarone Gun, and possibly other artillery pieces, will be converted on a
 volunteer basis to electronically restrict their firing rate (e.g., 1
 second pause after firing each paintball).

 On 2/10/2014 12:06 PM, isaac goldman wrote:

 Indeed... if field expedient modifications count,  it opens the door to
 a raft of dubious rules lawyering. Do sandbags or track links welded to
 the front hull count too?


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Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

2014-02-10 Thread Mike Mangus
 I like it.  Well, mayhaps not the all 4/40 thing.  heh.  But the armored car 
change is welcome.
 
 I suspect the speed limits will be by challenge, i.e. someone will mention 
that the armored car (or supply vehicle) looks a little fast.  Someone will 
then drive out the fastest tank and an impromptu drag race will ensue.  :)
 
 The rate of fire thing is nice also.  1 second is still fast enough for most 
folks.   I think there is some electronic timing circuits out there in the 
model warship world that would work perfectly. 
 
Mike
 
PS  I knew John was pulling our leg with that post.
 

From: Frank Pittelli frank.pitte...@gmail.com
To: rctankcombat@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79


Before everyone gets their panties in a twist, there are a couple things 
you should know:

John posted the story and picture as a joke because (a) the list has 
been quiet recently and (b) he was reminding me to post the following:

At the recent Tank Expo held in Annapolis, a Rules Committee was 
convened to discuss a number of proposals, with the following results:

a) Joe Sommer officially proposed Derek's suggestion to grant 40/4 
ratings to all tanks, regardless of model size, gun size or armor 
thickness.  That proposal was an alternative to others made in a lengthy 
discussion on the mailing list back in December. Joe has also made 
similar suggestions over the past couple of years. After a short 
discussion, the Rules Committee voted to PASS the rule change, 
implemented as updates to the Offensive Rating (Rule III.3) and the 
Defensive Rating (Rule III.4) rules.

b) Doug Conn proposed that Armored Cars be granted the same frontal hit 
exemption as tanks to encourage them to be built.  Other members had no 
problem with that change, provided that the speed of Armored Cars was 
restricted.  The Rules Committee voted to PASS the rule change, 
implemented as an update to the Frontal hits definition in the 
Defensive Rating rule (Rule III.3) and the addition of the following rule:

    Rule IV.6.e - The maximum speed of an Armored Car may not be
    greater than the maximum speed of the fastest tank participating
    in the battle.

c) To maintain the balance of the game, the speed limit on Armored Cars 
was also extended to Support Vehicles, resulting in the addition of the 
following rule:

    Rule IV.7.k - The maximum speed of a Support Vehicle may not be
    greater than the maximum speed of the fastest tank participating
    in the battle.

d) The Rules Committee discussed Doug Conn's proposal to limit the rate 
of fire for all markers.  No consensus was reached, other than to 
conduct some battlefield experiments to see how it might work.  To that 
end, the Navarone Gun, and possibly other artillery pieces, will be 
converted on a volunteer basis to electronically restrict their firing 
rate (e.g., 1 second pause after firing each paintball).

On 2/10/2014 12:06 PM, isaac goldman wrote:
 Indeed... if field expedient modifications count,  it opens the door to
 a raft of dubious rules lawyering. Do sandbags or track links welded to
 the front hull count too?

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Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

2014-02-10 Thread TyngTech
At the recent Tank Expo held in Annapolis, a Rules Committee was 
convened to discuss a number of proposals, with the following results:

Don't recall that.  Must of occurred when I was test driving my RC warship.

Joe Sommer officially proposed Derek's suggestion to grant 40/4 
ratings to all tanks, regardless of model size, gun size or armor 
thickness. - Passed

Let the race for the smallest, fastest, tracked vehicle begin!

Question ; how will the armoured car speed rule be enforced? If T040 
breaks down in the morning and cant make it to the afternoon battle

Find another tank.  The T040 will probably NOT be on the battlefield for 
2014.

ST

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Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

2014-02-10 Thread pureteenlard
Armoured car frontal immunity gets a thumbs up from me but as for the rest? 
I shall forebear to comment . . .

On Monday, February 10, 2014 9:51:57 PM UTC, TyngTech wrote:

 At the recent Tank Expo held in Annapolis, a Rules Committee was 
 convened to discuss a number of proposals, with the following results:

 Don't recall that.  Must of occurred when I was test driving my RC warship.

 Joe Sommer officially proposed Derek's suggestion to grant 40/4 
 ratings to all tanks, regardless of model size, gun size or armor 
 thickness. - Passed

 Let the race for the smallest, fastest, tracked vehicle begin!

 Question ; how will the armoured car speed rule be enforced? If T040 
 breaks down in the morning and cant make it to the afternoon battle

 Find another tank.  The T040 will probably NOT be on the battlefield for 
 2014.

 ST


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Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

2014-02-10 Thread Frank Pittelli

Simple: We'll kneecap any AC driver who goes over the speed limit :-)

Seriously, it's been a gentleman's game for over 10 years without any 
serious rule infractions or conflicts.  We trust each participant to 
police themselves.  If the sad day arrives that such trust is not 
sufficient, then I'm sure a simple speed gun/gate can serve as the 
necessary enforcement mechanism.


On 2/10/2014 2:30 PM, isaac goldman wrote:

Question ; how will the armoured car speed rule be enforced? If T040
breaks down in the morning and cant make it to the afternoon battle, do
all the armoured cars have to be handicapped?


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Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

2014-02-10 Thread Frank Pittelli

Actually, we've got a couple fairly easy solutions to choose from.

I've created an R/C switch board that can be used to control an 
electronic trigger. The board can be field upgraded to change the delay 
time after each shot.  The Navarone has been converted to use that board.


Given Doug's programming skills, I have no doubt he can add a similar 
feature to the Bofors controller for experimental purposes.


Mike Lyons has also developed a simple board that can be used between an 
R/C receiver and a servo to enforce the time delay.  That could be 
easily retro-fitted to any servo-actuated trigger (like Marty's Flak88).


On 2/10/2014 3:32 PM, Mike Mangus wrote:

The rate of fire thing is nice also. 1 second is still fast enough for
most folks. I think there is some electronic timing circuits out there
in the model warship world that would work perfectly.


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Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

2014-02-10 Thread jvragu47
Yes Derek, they are very sweet. I'm not sure where they came from, Santa 
Paul gave them to me. Glad to see someone at least looked at the upgrade. 

Seems as though quite a few folks swallowed my misinformation , breach , 
barrel and phony ammo box. LOL.

Stay tuned for further updates. Sorry to see that T-40 will not be at 
battle this year. Especially since you did all of that work Steve . 

Oberst Johann

On Monday, February 10, 2014 1:07:25 AM UTC-5, tan...@gmail.com wrote:

 I used regular roller bearings under the KV-2 turret mounted on small 
 shafts, but I like this implementation better.  Mine works so I probably 
 won't change it though.  I think Surplus Center has these pretty cheap, 
 right?

 Derek


 On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 11:07 PM, John Pittelli jpl...@yahoo.comjavascript:
  wrote:

 Spent a few hours today adding an upgrade to the Abomination.  An 
 observer mumbled that it would be outlawed. Oh well, I leave that to our 
 forum to decide. Check out the last page of T-79.

 On another note, while reading a roster for Operation Hercules , it seems 
 that one of the 12 Pz II Ausf J's in the Bethke Co. was field outfitted 
 with the 75mm short barrel howitzer from the early PzIV's. 
 I found this photo of that tank . PzII is on the left  While 
 unfortunately the gun is not visible, you can clearly see  the standard 
 75mm ammo box stowed on the right rear fender. 
 To the rules committee:
 I will be making this variation. Please upgrade the ammo allotment from 
 30 rounds to 40 rounds. Thank you in advance for your consideration. 
 Strength through a better Abomination. 

 Oberst Johann
  
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Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

2014-02-10 Thread Derek Engelhaupt
I looked them up.  Surplus Center did have one kind, but not the kind I
remember.  For anyone interested they are officially called transfer
rollers as far as I can tell if you are interested in putting this kind of
tech in your tank... :)

Derek


On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 7:23 PM, jvragu47 jpl...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Yes Derek, they are very sweet. I'm not sure where they came from, Santa
 Paul gave them to me. Glad to see someone at least looked at the upgrade.

 Seems as though quite a few folks swallowed my misinformation , breach ,
 barrel and phony ammo box. LOL.

 Stay tuned for further updates. Sorry to see that T-40 will not be at
 battle this year. Especially since you did all of that work Steve .

 Oberst Johann

 On Monday, February 10, 2014 1:07:25 AM UTC-5, tan...@gmail.com wrote:

 I used regular roller bearings under the KV-2 turret mounted on small
 shafts, but I like this implementation better.  Mine works so I probably
 won't change it though.  I think Surplus Center has these pretty cheap,
 right?

 Derek


 On Sun, Feb 9, 2014 at 11:07 PM, John Pittelli jpl...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Spent a few hours today adding an upgrade to the Abomination.  An
 observer mumbled that it would be outlawed. Oh well, I leave that to our
 forum to decide. Check out the last page of T-79.

 On another note, while reading a roster for Operation Hercules , it
 seems that one of the 12 Pz II Ausf J's in the Bethke Co. was field
 outfitted with the 75mm short barrel howitzer from the early PzIV's.
 I found this photo of that tank . PzII is on the left  While
 unfortunately the gun is not visible, you can clearly see  the standard
 75mm ammo box stowed on the right rear fender.
 To the rules committee:
 I will be making this variation. Please upgrade the ammo allotment from
 30 rounds to 40 rounds. Thank you in advance for your consideration.
 Strength through a better Abomination.

 Oberst Johann

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Re: [TANKS] Minor upgrade to T-79

2014-02-10 Thread OdysseySlipways
with the new roller your using do you have any concerns with them  jamming 
due to dirt or crap from game play? can they be taken apart and  cleaned if 
need be? wouldn't something of a hard material like that make a ware  ring 
after a short time of use? 
 
chris

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