[RDA-L] A few points about the 372, 373 and 374 fields

[Gary L Strawn]

As you all know, current policy (may it soon be abolished!) dictates that we 
modify a geographic name found in an authority 151 field when we can record it 
in the authority 370 field (remove parentheses, add comma, remove term for 
jurisdiction).

This transformation does not apply to subject headings recorded in the 372 or 
374 field, or names recorded in the 373 field: for these, we should use the 
name as found in the authority record.

Mixed media (Art)
Not: Mixed media, Art

Northwestern University (Evanston, Ill.)
Not: Northwestern University, Evanston, Ill.

Given a 1XX field that contains more than just subfield $a, replace the 
subfield codes with a space; but if the subfield code is $v, $x, $y or $z, 
replace with two hyphens (with additional spaces if you want 'em).

Zhongguo ke xue yuan. Changchun ying yong hua xue yan jiu suo
Not: Zhongguo ke xue yuan, Changchun ying yong hua xue yan jiu suo

Karnataka (India). Directorate of Archaeology & Museums
Not: Karnataka India, Directorate of Archaeology & Museums

Historians--Russia (Federation)
Not: Historians. Russia, Federation

United States. Army. Corps of Engineers
Not: United States Army Corps of Engineers

Consultants--Legal status, laws, etc.
Not: Consultants, Legal status, laws, etc.

Legislators--United States
Not: Legislators United States

Saudi Arabia -- Politics and government

Russia (Federation)--History
Not: Russia, Federation--History
Not (for the modern period): Russia--History

Music--Acoustics and physics
Not: Music $a Acoustics and physics

No added punctuation:

Not: University of California, Berkeley.
Not: College teachers; $c Historians

And, as always, we should be using copy-and-paste every time, no matter how 
simple or familiar the heading, and not typing things afresh. These are all 
examples that came across my desk this afternoon:

Motion picture producers and directcors
Motion picures
Assumption College (Makati, Philippine)
Sinhalese litrature
Botanits
Hisotrians
Ixelles, Belguim
Romannia
Theather
Albermarle County, Va.
Cit planners
Mississippi Reserach and Develoment Center [two in one!]
Almagordo, N.M.
Social siences

(And don't even get me started on "Hierarchical" in subfield $i!)

Gary L. Strawn, Authorities Librarian, etc.   Twitter: GaryLStrawn
Northwestern University Library, 1970 Campus Drive, Evanston IL 60208-2300
e-mail: mrsm...@northwestern.edu   voice: 847/491-2788   fax: 847/491-8306
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.   BatchCat version: 2007.25.428

Re: [RDA-L] Streaming & RDA (query from a ludite!!)

[Boehr, Diane (NIH/NLM) [E]]

Anne,

NLM has created a number of streaming video records using RDA.  We are not 
finding that they are any more difficult in RDA than they were in AACR2.  For 
some samples you can search these NLMID numbers in either OCLC or NLM's 
LocatorPlus : 
101604597, 101605272, 101605623.

Diane Boehr
Head of Cataloging
National Library of Medicine
8600 Rockville Pike, MS3823
Bethesda, MD 20894
301-435-7059 (voice)
301-402-1211 (fax)
boe...@mail.nlm.nih.gov

From: Anne Laguna [mailto:anne.lag...@townsville.qld.gov.au]
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 9:23 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: [RDA-L] Streaming & RDA (query from a ludite!!)

Greetings from sunny & warm northern Australia (wallabies in library carpark 
included FOC)

Has anyone tried adding entries for media streamed items to their catalogues 
using RDA?  We are about to add them & I am interested in how simple/not simple 
this may be.

BTW: Any other information on media streaming in the catalogue/library 
situation would be welcome as well .

Cheers
Anne Laguna
Librarian, Resource & Access Management
CityLibraries Townsville
P  07 4773 8509
F  07 4773 8608
E  anne.lag...@townsville.qld.gov.au
W www.townsville.qld.gov.au
Townsville City Council
103-141 Walker Street
PO Box 1268
Townsville QLD 4810
PRIVACY AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE >> The information contained in this email 
is intended for the named recipients only. It may contain privileged and 
confidential information and if you are not the named intended recipient, you 
must not copy, distribute or take any action in reliance on it. If you have 
received this email in error, please notify us immediately by email or the 
telephone number or email listed above.

Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

[Cristan, Ana Lupe]

Hello All,
In July of 2012 PSD issued guidelines described the changes made in Phase 1 and 
provided guidance for NACO handling of NARs that had the 667 added to it.  This 
document is at: http://www.loc.gov/aba/rda/pdf/lcnaf_rdaphase.pdf


See page 4, number 3 that states:

AACR2 authority record with an ampersand in $l will be labeled with a 667 field 
as needing review under RDA (about 13,000 authority records).
What an RDA cataloger should do: If an authority record with an ampersand in $l 
is encountered, create substitute RDA records for each language expression 
represented in $l if they don’t already exist (they often will) and report the 
authority record with the ampersand for deletion. Do not use ‘re-use’ the 
authority record with an ampersand for a single language expression.

I will delete n 79084797 and create a new NAR for the English expression - with 
the deprecated LCCN in the subfield $z.
ciao tutti
Ana Lupe Cristán
Library of Congress
Policy and Standards Division
101 Independence Ave.
Washington, DC 20540-4305
Tel. +1.202.707.7921
fax +1.202.707.6629
Email: a...@loc.gov
[cid:image003.jpg@01CE5E1C.9AB484A0]

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of John Hostage
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 3:39 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

So, Gary, what is the proper behavior with these records in the authority file?

--
John Hostage
Authorities and Database Integrity Librarian //
Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services //
Langdell Hall 194 //
Cambridge, MA 02138
host...@law.harvard.edu
+(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice)
+(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax)

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Gary L Strawn
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 12:10
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

This very matter has been the subject of more than one e-mail to what I can 
only refer to as "offenders."  In our current wild-West 
everyone-does-what-they-want world I doubt that anything except eternal 
vigilance on all of our parts can prevent this kind of improper behavior from 
adversely affecting our databases.

Gary L. Strawn, Authorities Librarian, etc.   Twitter: GaryLStrawn
Northwestern University Library, 1970 Campus Drive, Evanston IL 60208-2300
e-mail: mrsm...@northwestern.edu   voice: 
847/491-2788   fax: 847/491-8306
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.   BatchCat version: 2007.25.428

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Adger Williams
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 10:56 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

n  79084797.
Haggadah English has a see-reference from Haggadah English & Hebrew.
When this record hit our database, it turned all the entries for Haggadah 
English & Hebrew into entries for Haggadah English.
I then went through and added the extra entry for Haggadah Hebrew.  (hm... that 
may require some more thought)
Does anyone know if this is the way NACO will be handling the RDA insistence on 
only one language in subfield l of title authority records?

--
Adger Williams
Colgate University Library
315-228-7310
awilli...@colgate.edu
<>

Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

[Adam L. Schiff]

Each of these types of authority records for expressions with multiple 
languages needs to result in two or more new authority records, with the 
original record cancelled (it could be put in 040 $z of the new RDA 
records, but Coop Team personnel would have to do that, since we can't add 
040 $z in OCLC).  And as Gary pointed out in a previous message, we still 
don't have a best practice as to what to use for the expression in the 
original language.  LC-PCC policy statements show that LC catalogers will 
not add the original language to the work access point, so that the work 
access point doubles as the access point for the original expression.


Example:

010n  92057471 
100 1_ Amin, Samir. $t Avenir du socialisme. $l English & French

400 1_ Amin, Samir. $t Future of socialism

would result in deleting record n  92057471 and:

010new LCCN $z n  92057471 
100 1_ Amin, Samir. $t Avenir du socialisme. $l English

400 1_ Amin, Samir. $t Future of socialism

and

010new LCCN $z n  92057471 
100 1_ Amin, Samir. $t Avenir du socialisme. $l French

  or
010new LCCN $z n  92057471 
100 1_ Amin, Samir. $t Avenir du socialisme



^^
Adam L. Schiff
Principal Cataloger
University of Washington Libraries
Box 352900
Seattle, WA 98195-2900
(206) 543-8409
(206) 685-8782 fax
asch...@u.washington.edu
http://faculty.washington.edu/~aschiff
~~

On Fri, 31 May 2013, Gary L Strawn wrote:


Since there's no one-for-one correspondence, I think the best thing is just to 
delete 'em. I'd be delighted if they were all deleted in a batch?


Gary L. Strawn, Authorities Librarian, etc.   Twitter: GaryLStrawn
Northwestern University Library, 1970 Campus Drive, Evanston IL 60208-2300
e-mail: mrsm...@northwestern.edu   voice: 847/491-2788   fax: 847/491-8306
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.   BatchCat version: 2007.25.428

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of John Hostage
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 2:39 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

So, Gary, what is the proper behavior with these records in the authority file?

--
John Hostage
Authorities and Database Integrity Librarian //
Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services //
Langdell Hall 194 //
Cambridge, MA 02138
host...@law.harvard.edu
+(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice)
+(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax)

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Gary L Strawn
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 12:10
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

This very matter has been the subject of more than one e-mail to what I can only refer to 
as "offenders."  In our current wild-West everyone-does-what-they-want world I 
doubt that anything except eternal vigilance on all of our parts can prevent this kind of 
improper behavior from adversely affecting our databases.

Gary L. Strawn, Authorities Librarian, etc.   Twitter: GaryLStrawn
Northwestern University Library, 1970 Campus Drive, Evanston IL 60208-2300
e-mail: mrsm...@northwestern.edu   voice: 
847/491-2788   fax: 847/491-8306
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.   BatchCat version: 2007.25.428

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Adger Williams
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 10:56 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

n  79084797.
Haggadah English has a see-reference from Haggadah English & Hebrew.
When this record hit our database, it turned all the entries for Haggadah English 
& Hebrew into entries for Haggadah English.
I then went through and added the extra entry for Haggadah Hebrew.  (hm... that 
may require some more thought)
Does anyone know if this is the way NACO will be handling the RDA insistence on 
only one language in subfield l of title authority records?

--
Adger Williams
Colgate University Library
315-228-7310
awilli...@colgate.edu

Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

[Gene Fieg]

Delete what? The authority record(s)?

Examples, please


On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Gary L Strawn wrote:

>  Since there's no one-for-one correspondence, I think the best thing is
> just to delete 'em. I'd be delighted if they were all deleted in a batch…*
> ***
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Gary L. Strawn, Authorities Librarian, etc.   Twitter: GaryLStrawn
> 
>
> Northwestern University Library, 1970 Campus Drive, Evanston IL 60208-2300
> 
>
> e-mail: mrsm...@northwestern.edu   voice: 847/491-2788   fax: 847/491-8306
> 
>
> Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.   BatchCat version: 2007.25.428
> 
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
> [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *John Hostage
> *Sent:* Friday, May 31, 2013 2:39 PM
>
> *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
> *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things
> to come?
>
>  ** **
>
> So, Gary, what is the proper behavior with these records in the authority
> file?
>
> ** **
>
> --
>
> John Hostage 
>
> Authorities and Database Integrity Librarian //
>
> Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services //
>
> Langdell Hall 194 //
>
> Cambridge, MA 02138 
>
> host...@law.harvard.edu 
>
> +(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice) 
>
> +(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax)
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
> [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *Gary L Strawn
> *Sent:* Friday, May 31, 2013 12:10
> *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
> *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things
> to come?
>
> ** **
>
> This very matter has been the subject of more than one e-mail to what I
> can only refer to as "offenders."  In our current wild-West
> everyone-does-what-they-want world I doubt that anything except eternal
> vigilance on all of our parts can prevent this kind of improper behavior
> from adversely affecting our databases.
>
> ** **
>
> Gary L. Strawn, Authorities Librarian, etc.   Twitter: GaryLStrawn
> 
>
> Northwestern University Library, 1970 Campus Drive, Evanston IL 60208-2300
> 
>
> e-mail: mrsm...@northwestern.edu   voice: 847/491-2788   fax: 847/491-8306
> 
>
> Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.   BatchCat version: 2007.25.428
> 
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
> [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA ] *On
> Behalf Of *Adger Williams
> *Sent:* Friday, May 31, 2013 10:56 AM
> *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
> *Subject:* [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to
> come?
>
> ** **
>
> n  79084797.
>
> Haggadah English has a see-reference from Haggadah English & Hebrew.
>
> When this record hit our database, it turned all the entries for Haggadah
> English & Hebrew into entries for Haggadah English.
>
> I then went through and added the extra entry for Haggadah Hebrew.  (hm...
> that may require some more thought)
>
> Does anyone know if this is the way NACO will be handling the RDA
> insistence on only one language in subfield l of title authority records?
> 
>
>
> --
> Adger Williams
> Colgate University Library
> 315-228-7310
> awilli...@colgate.edu 
>



-- 
Gene Fieg
Cataloger/Serials Librarian
Claremont School of Theology
gf...@cst.edu

Claremont School of Theology and Claremont Lincoln University do not
represent or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any of the information
or content contained in this forwarded email.  The forwarded email is that
of the original sender and does not represent the views of Claremont School
of Theology or Claremont Lincoln University.  It has been forwarded as a
courtesy for information only.

Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

[Gary L Strawn]

Since there's no one-for-one correspondence, I think the best thing is just to 
delete 'em. I'd be delighted if they were all deleted in a batch…


Gary L. Strawn, Authorities Librarian, etc.   Twitter: GaryLStrawn
Northwestern University Library, 1970 Campus Drive, Evanston IL 60208-2300
e-mail: mrsm...@northwestern.edu   voice: 847/491-2788   fax: 847/491-8306
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.   BatchCat version: 2007.25.428

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of John Hostage
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 2:39 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

So, Gary, what is the proper behavior with these records in the authority file?

--
John Hostage
Authorities and Database Integrity Librarian //
Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services //
Langdell Hall 194 //
Cambridge, MA 02138
host...@law.harvard.edu
+(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice)
+(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax)

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Gary L Strawn
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 12:10
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

This very matter has been the subject of more than one e-mail to what I can 
only refer to as "offenders."  In our current wild-West 
everyone-does-what-they-want world I doubt that anything except eternal 
vigilance on all of our parts can prevent this kind of improper behavior from 
adversely affecting our databases.

Gary L. Strawn, Authorities Librarian, etc.   Twitter: GaryLStrawn
Northwestern University Library, 1970 Campus Drive, Evanston IL 60208-2300
e-mail: mrsm...@northwestern.edu   voice: 
847/491-2788   fax: 847/491-8306
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.   BatchCat version: 2007.25.428

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Adger Williams
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 10:56 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

n  79084797.
Haggadah English has a see-reference from Haggadah English & Hebrew.
When this record hit our database, it turned all the entries for Haggadah 
English & Hebrew into entries for Haggadah English.
I then went through and added the extra entry for Haggadah Hebrew.  (hm... that 
may require some more thought)
Does anyone know if this is the way NACO will be handling the RDA insistence on 
only one language in subfield l of title authority records?

--
Adger Williams
Colgate University Library
315-228-7310
awilli...@colgate.edu

Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

[John Hostage]

So, Gary, what is the proper behavior with these records in the authority file?

--
John Hostage
Authorities and Database Integrity Librarian //
Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services //
Langdell Hall 194 //
Cambridge, MA 02138
host...@law.harvard.edu
+(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice)
+(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax)

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Gary L Strawn
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 12:10
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

This very matter has been the subject of more than one e-mail to what I can 
only refer to as "offenders."  In our current wild-West 
everyone-does-what-they-want world I doubt that anything except eternal 
vigilance on all of our parts can prevent this kind of improper behavior from 
adversely affecting our databases.

Gary L. Strawn, Authorities Librarian, etc.   Twitter: GaryLStrawn
Northwestern University Library, 1970 Campus Drive, Evanston IL 60208-2300
e-mail: mrsm...@northwestern.edu   voice: 
847/491-2788   fax: 847/491-8306
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.   BatchCat version: 2007.25.428

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Adger Williams
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 10:56 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

n  79084797.
Haggadah English has a see-reference from Haggadah English & Hebrew.
When this record hit our database, it turned all the entries for Haggadah 
English & Hebrew into entries for Haggadah English.
I then went through and added the extra entry for Haggadah Hebrew.  (hm... that 
may require some more thought)
Does anyone know if this is the way NACO will be handling the RDA insistence on 
only one language in subfield l of title authority records?

--
Adger Williams
Colgate University Library
315-228-7310
awilli...@colgate.edu

Re: [RDA-L] Authorized access points for expressions

[Adam Schiff]

Joan is correct that Performed music would be the term added for an expression 
of a score but this is not how the access point for the music from the film 
would be constructed.  It would be the name of the composer followed by the 
name of the musical work.  The music is a separate work from the film.  The 130 
shown below would imply that you had a sound recording of the film – that is, 
all of the sound of the film, not just the music.  For example if I simply 
played the film on my TV and recorded the sound onto a CD – you’d have the 
sound but no images.

The access point for the music from the film would be:

100 1_ $a Steiner, Max, $d 1888-1971. $t Gone with the wind

If you wanted to add to that to indicate you have a sound recording of the 
music you’d get:

100 1_ $a Steiner, Max, $d 1888-1971. $t Gone with the wind. $h Performed music

or, in a bib record:

100 1_ $a Steiner, Max, $d 1888-1971.
240 10 $a Gone with the wind. $h Performed music

--Adam Schiff

Adam Schiff
Principal Cataloger
University of Washington Libraries

From: Joan Wang 
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 9:02 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA 
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Authorized access points for expressions

> 130 0#$aGone with the wind (Motion picture).$hSound recording. 


I think that for this, should use Performed music in $h?  






On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Joan Wang  wrote:

  (Forgot to put subject in the earlier email I sent. Sorry about that)



  Hi, All 

  I hope that somebody would like to help me understand authorized access 
points for expressions.


  We can say that authorized access points for expressions are not separate 
access points. They are actually expression elements such as content type, 
date, and language, added to authorized access points for creators or preferred 
titles for works. So they would be a part of 7xx, 130, 240, 243, 730, or 830 
(?) fields. But they would not appear in 1xx fields. Is that right?   

  I found the following two examples from the website of Library of Congress 
MARC 21 format. 


130
   0#$aGone with the wind (Motion picture).$hSound recording. 
   
700
   1#$aE., Sheila$q(Escovedo),$d1959- $tDawn, the beginning.$hSound 
recording.
   


  Under RDA, subfield h Sound recording would be changed to Spoken word, is 
that right?  





  Thanks for your help in advance. 



  Regards, 

  Joan Wang



  -- 

  Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D. 
  Cataloger -- CMC
  Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office)
  6725 Goshen Road
  Edwardsville, IL 62025
  618.656.3216x409
  618.656.9401Fax



-- 

Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D. 
Cataloger -- CMC
Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office)
6725 Goshen Road
Edwardsville, IL 62025
618.656.3216x409
618.656.9401Fax

Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

[Kevin M Randall]

Jenifer Marquardt wrote:

> The series dilemma for parallel titles has turned into a PCC policy
> discussion.  As it stands and as you are instructed in the series bridge
> training, you have to create TWO series records.  One for each language
> expression.  Even though neither SAR completely describes the work if
> you do that. So, of course, it takes two 830s in the bib.  I think a link
> between the two SARs should be a basic element, but it isn't required.

This is a great illustration of just how inadequate MARC really is for RDA 
data.  What we really want is to relate the analytic to the series 
MANIFESTATION (singular!).  The series statement is the descriptive aspect of 
that relationship.  Ideally, what we would then do is connect the analytic 
description to the series via an identifier for the series manifestation, and 
let the series authorities take care of handling the relationship of the series 
manifestation to its expression (or expressions, plural).  But of course we 
can't do that with MARC data, at least the way we work with it.

Kevin M. Randall
Principal Serials Cataloger
Northwestern University Library
k...@northwestern.edu
(847) 491-2939

Proudly wearing the sensible shoes since 1978!

Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

[Jenifer K Marquardt]

The series dilemma for parallel titles has turned into a PCC policy discussion. 
 As it stands and as you are instructed in the series bridge training, you have 
to create TWO series records.  One for each language expression.  Even though 
neither SAR completely describes the work if you do that. So, of course, it 
takes two 830s in the bib.  I think a link between the two SARs should be a 
basic element, but it isn't required.

Jenifer


Jenifer K. Marquardt
Asst. Head of Cataloging & Authorities Librarian
University of Georgia
Athens, GA 30602-1641


From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] on behalf of Gene Fieg [gf...@cst.edu]
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 12:52 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

Just looked at record:
n  79084797
040  DLC ǂb eng ǂe rda ǂc DLC ǂd OCoLC ǂd OrU ǂd DLC ǂd ICrlF
130 0Haggadah. ǂl English
377  eng
430 0Haggadah. ǂl English & Hebrew ǂw nnaa
4102 Jews. ǂk Liturgy and ritual. ǂt Hagadah. ǂl English & Hebrew ǂw nnaa
430 0New American Haggadah
670  New American Haggadah, 2012.
670  Zion, Mishael. A night to remember, 2007: ǂb t.p. (the Haggadah of 
contemporary voices)

Suggestion: When the work catalogued (670) contains both English and Hebrew, is 
there a way (a new field perhaps, other than a 530) to indicate the Hebrew 
version.
I too dread the idea of physically adding added entries (7XX 02) for these 
types of things.  What happens to a series such as Sources chretiennes, here we 
have the original text and the French translation.  Oh, happy days


On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Adger Williams 
mailto:awilli...@colgate.edu>> wrote:
n  79084797.
Haggadah English has a see-reference from Haggadah English & Hebrew.

When this record hit our database, it turned all the entries for Haggadah 
English & Hebrew into entries for Haggadah English.

I then went through and added the extra entry for Haggadah Hebrew.  (hm... that 
may require some more thought)

Does anyone know if this is the way NACO will be handling the RDA insistence on 
only one language in subfield l of title authority records?

--
Adger Williams
Colgate University Library
315-228-7310
awilli...@colgate.edu



--
Gene Fieg
Cataloger/Serials Librarian
Claremont School of Theology
gf...@cst.edu

Claremont School of Theology and Claremont Lincoln University do not represent 
or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any of the information or content 
contained in this forwarded email.  The forwarded email is that of the original 
sender and does not represent the views of Claremont School of Theology or 
Claremont Lincoln University.  It has been forwarded as a courtesy for 
information only.

Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

[Gene Fieg]

And then we have the following already in the NAF:

010  n  84075772
040  InU ǂb eng ǂc DLC ǂd DLC ǂd UPB ǂd DLC
046  ǂk 1976 ǂl 1977
1000 Origen. ǂt Homilies on Jeremiah. ǂl French & Greek
336  text ǂ2 rdacontent
4000 Origen. ǂt Homélies sur Jérémie
667  THIS 1XX FIELD CANNOT BE USED UNDER RDA UNTIL THIS RECORD HAS BEEN
REVIEWED AND/OR UPDATED
670  His Homélies sur Jérémie, 1976-1977: ǂb t.p. (translation by Pierre
Husson and Pierre Nautin; edition by Pierre Nautin)
70002Origen, ǂd 184 or 185-253 or 254. ǂt Homilies on Jeremiah. ǂl French
ǂs (Husson and Nautin)

Are to assume to that the 700 02 will help here.  According to MARC 21, the
second indicator "2" refers to medical headings.



On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:07 AM, Gary L Strawn wrote:

>  Well, what you need to end up with is indeed two 7XX fields for most
> such "&" headings.  (I'm going to set aside the matter of bilingual series
> such as … $t Works. $l English & Latin.)  One of the difficulties one faces
> involves the two languages named in the $l: is one of them the original?
> Reference to the 041 field can be of use; but of course the 041 may be
> missing or incomplete in order records, or may reflect earlier coding
> practices. (Meaning that any fully automated solution to the "&"
> problem—without review—will not produce satisfactory results.  And we
> haven't even raised the issue of "Polyglot" yet!)  For users of my toolkit
> (Voyager only, sorry) the "$l" button offers quite a lot of help with "&"
> headings, though it's still a one-at-a-time operation; but finding and
> adjusting a database worth of "&" headings is a very long slog no matter
> how you do it.  You didn't have any plans for the summer, did you?
>
> ** **
>
> One of the fun (?) things one runs into with "&" headings is pre-RDA
> headings for librettos, which are a whole study unto themselves…
>
> ** **
>
> Gary L. Strawn, Authorities Librarian, etc.   Twitter: GaryLStrawn
> 
>
> Northwestern University Library, 1970 Campus Drive, Evanston IL 60208-2300
> 
>
> e-mail: mrsm...@northwestern.edu   voice: 847/491-2788   fax: 847/491-8306
> 
>
> Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.   BatchCat version: 2007.25.428
> 
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
> [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] *On Behalf Of *Gene Fieg
> *Sent:* Friday, May 31, 2013 11:52 AM
>
> *To:* RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
> *Subject:* Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things
> to come?
>
>  ** **
>
> Just looked at record:
>
> n  79084797
> 040  DLC ǂb eng ǂe rda ǂc DLC ǂd OCoLC ǂd OrU ǂd DLC ǂd ICrlF
> 130 0Haggadah. ǂl English
> 377  eng
> 430 0Haggadah. ǂl English & Hebrew ǂw nnaa
> 4102 Jews. ǂk Liturgy and ritual. ǂt Hagadah. ǂl English & Hebrew ǂw nnaa
> 430 0New American Haggadah
> 670  New American Haggadah, 2012.
> 670  Zion, Mishael. A night to remember, 2007: ǂb t.p. (the Haggadah of
> contemporary voices)
>
>  
>
> Suggestion: When the work catalogued (670) contains both English and
> Hebrew, is there a way (a new field perhaps, other than a 530) to indicate
> the Hebrew version.
>
> I too dread the idea of physically adding added entries (7XX 02) for these
> types of things.  What happens to a series such as Sources chretiennes,
> here we have the original text and the French translation.  Oh, happy
> days
>



-- 
Gene Fieg
Cataloger/Serials Librarian
Claremont School of Theology
gf...@cst.edu

Claremont School of Theology and Claremont Lincoln University do not
represent or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any of the information
or content contained in this forwarded email.  The forwarded email is that
of the original sender and does not represent the views of Claremont School
of Theology or Claremont Lincoln University.  It has been forwarded as a
courtesy for information only.

Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

[Gary L Strawn]

Well, what you need to end up with is indeed two 7XX fields for most such "&" 
headings.  (I'm going to set aside the matter of bilingual series such as … $t 
Works. $l English & Latin.)  One of the difficulties one faces involves the two 
languages named in the $l: is one of them the original? Reference to the 041 
field can be of use; but of course the 041 may be missing or incomplete in 
order records, or may reflect earlier coding practices. (Meaning that any fully 
automated solution to the "&" problem—without review—will not produce 
satisfactory results.  And we haven't even raised the issue of "Polyglot" yet!) 
 For users of my toolkit (Voyager only, sorry) the "$l" button offers quite a 
lot of help with "&" headings, though it's still a one-at-a-time operation; but 
finding and adjusting a database worth of "&" headings is a very long slog no 
matter how you do it.  You didn't have any plans for the summer, did you?

One of the fun (?) things one runs into with "&" headings is pre-RDA headings 
for librettos, which are a whole study unto themselves…

Gary L. Strawn, Authorities Librarian, etc.   Twitter: GaryLStrawn
Northwestern University Library, 1970 Campus Drive, Evanston IL 60208-2300
e-mail: mrsm...@northwestern.edu   voice: 847/491-2788   fax: 847/491-8306
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.   BatchCat version: 2007.25.428

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Gene Fieg
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 11:52 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

Just looked at record:
n  79084797
040  DLC ǂb eng ǂe rda ǂc DLC ǂd OCoLC ǂd OrU ǂd DLC ǂd ICrlF
130 0Haggadah. ǂl English
377  eng
430 0Haggadah. ǂl English & Hebrew ǂw nnaa
4102 Jews. ǂk Liturgy and ritual. ǂt Hagadah. ǂl English & Hebrew ǂw nnaa
430 0New American Haggadah
670  New American Haggadah, 2012.
670  Zion, Mishael. A night to remember, 2007: ǂb t.p. (the Haggadah of 
contemporary voices)

Suggestion: When the work catalogued (670) contains both English and Hebrew, is 
there a way (a new field perhaps, other than a 530) to indicate the Hebrew 
version.
I too dread the idea of physically adding added entries (7XX 02) for these 
types of things.  What happens to a series such as Sources chretiennes, here we 
have the original text and the French translation.  Oh, happy days

Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

[Gene Fieg]

Just looked at record:
n  79084797
040  DLC ǂb eng ǂe rda ǂc DLC ǂd OCoLC ǂd OrU ǂd DLC ǂd ICrlF
130 0Haggadah. ǂl English
377  eng
430 0Haggadah. ǂl English & Hebrew ǂw nnaa
4102 Jews. ǂk Liturgy and ritual. ǂt Hagadah. ǂl English & Hebrew ǂw nnaa
430 0New American Haggadah
670  New American Haggadah, 2012.
670  Zion, Mishael. A night to remember, 2007: ǂb t.p. (the Haggadah of
contemporary voices)

Suggestion: When the work catalogued (670) contains both English and
Hebrew, is there a way (a new field perhaps, other than a 530) to indicate
the Hebrew version.
I too dread the idea of physically adding added entries (7XX 02) for these
types of things.  What happens to a series such as Sources chretiennes,
here we have the original text and the French translation.  Oh, happy
days


On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Adger Williams wrote:

> n  79084797.
> Haggadah English has a see-reference from Haggadah English & Hebrew.
>
> When this record hit our database, it turned all the entries for Haggadah
> English & Hebrew into entries for Haggadah English.
>
> I then went through and added the extra entry for Haggadah Hebrew.  (hm...
> that may require some more thought)
>
> Does anyone know if this is the way NACO will be handling the RDA
> insistence on only one language in subfield l of title authority records?
>
> --
> Adger Williams
> Colgate University Library
> 315-228-7310
> awilli...@colgate.edu
>



-- 
Gene Fieg
Cataloger/Serials Librarian
Claremont School of Theology
gf...@cst.edu

Claremont School of Theology and Claremont Lincoln University do not
represent or endorse the accuracy or reliability of any of the information
or content contained in this forwarded email.  The forwarded email is that
of the original sender and does not represent the views of Claremont School
of Theology or Claremont Lincoln University.  It has been forwarded as a
courtesy for information only.

Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

[Mitchell, Michael]

Next! ;)

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Gary L Strawn
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 11:10 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

This very matter has been the subject of more than one e-mail to what I can 
only refer to as "offenders."  In our current wild-West 
everyone-does-what-they-want world I doubt that anything except eternal 
vigilance on all of our parts can prevent this kind of improper behavior from 
adversely affecting our databases.

Gary L. Strawn, Authorities Librarian, etc.   Twitter: GaryLStrawn
Northwestern University Library, 1970 Campus Drive, Evanston IL 60208-2300
e-mail: mrsm...@northwestern.edu   voice: 847/491-2788   fax: 847/491-8306
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.   BatchCat version: 2007.25.428

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Adger Williams
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 10:56 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

n  79084797.
Haggadah English has a see-reference from Haggadah English & Hebrew.
When this record hit our database, it turned all the entries for Haggadah 
English & Hebrew into entries for Haggadah English.
I then went through and added the extra entry for Haggadah Hebrew.  (hm... that 
may require some more thought)
Does anyone know if this is the way NACO will be handling the RDA insistence on 
only one language in subfield l of title authority records?

--
Adger Williams
Colgate University Library
315-228-7310
awilli...@colgate.edu

Re: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

[Gary L Strawn]

This very matter has been the subject of more than one e-mail to what I can 
only refer to as "offenders."  In our current wild-West 
everyone-does-what-they-want world I doubt that anything except eternal 
vigilance on all of our parts can prevent this kind of improper behavior from 
adversely affecting our databases.

Gary L. Strawn, Authorities Librarian, etc.   Twitter: GaryLStrawn
Northwestern University Library, 1970 Campus Drive, Evanston IL 60208-2300
e-mail: mrsm...@northwestern.edu   voice: 847/491-2788   fax: 847/491-8306
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.   BatchCat version: 2007.25.428

From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access 
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Adger Williams
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 10:56 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: [RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

n  79084797.
Haggadah English has a see-reference from Haggadah English & Hebrew.
When this record hit our database, it turned all the entries for Haggadah 
English & Hebrew into entries for Haggadah English.
I then went through and added the extra entry for Haggadah Hebrew.  (hm... that 
may require some more thought)
Does anyone know if this is the way NACO will be handling the RDA insistence on 
only one language in subfield l of title authority records?

--
Adger Williams
Colgate University Library
315-228-7310
awilli...@colgate.edu

Re: [RDA-L] Authorized access points for expressions

[Joan Wang]

> 130 0#$aGone with the wind (Motion picture).$hSound recording.

I think that for this, should use Performed music in $h?



On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 9:50 AM, Joan Wang wrote:

> (Forgot to put subject in the earlier email I sent. Sorry about that)
>
> Hi, All
>
> I hope that somebody would like to help me understand authorized access
> points for expressions.
>
> We can say that authorized access points for expressions are not separate
> access points. They are actually expression elements such as content type,
> date, and language, added to authorized access points for creators or
> preferred titles for works. So they would be a part of 7xx, 130, 240, 243,
> 730, or 830 (?) fields. But they would not appear in 1xx fields. Is that
> right?
>
> I found the following two examples from the website of Library of Congress
> MARC 21 format.
>
>   130
>
> 0#$aGone with the wind (Motion picture).$hSound recording.
>
> 700
>
> 1#$aE., Sheila$q(Escovedo),$d1959- $tDawn, the beginning.$hSound recording.
>
> Under RDA, subfield h Sound recording would be changed to Spoken word, is
> that right?
>
>
>  Thanks for your help in advance.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Joan Wang
>
>
> --
> Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D.
> Cataloger -- CMC
> Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office)
> 6725 Goshen Road
> Edwardsville, IL 62025
> 618.656.3216x409
> 618.656.9401Fax
>



-- 
Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D.
Cataloger -- CMC
Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office)
6725 Goshen Road
Edwardsville, IL 62025
618.656.3216x409
618.656.9401Fax

[RDA-L] English & Hebrew --> English.. a taste of things to come?

[Adger Williams]

n  79084797.
Haggadah English has a see-reference from Haggadah English & Hebrew.

When this record hit our database, it turned all the entries for Haggadah
English & Hebrew into entries for Haggadah English.

I then went through and added the extra entry for Haggadah Hebrew.  (hm...
that may require some more thought)

Does anyone know if this is the way NACO will be handling the RDA
insistence on only one language in subfield l of title authority records?

-- 
Adger Williams
Colgate University Library
315-228-7310
awilli...@colgate.edu

[RDA-L] Authorized access points for expressions

[Joan Wang]

(Forgot to put subject in the earlier email I sent. Sorry about that)

Hi, All

I hope that somebody would like to help me understand authorized access
points for expressions.

We can say that authorized access points for expressions are not separate
access points. They are actually expression elements such as content type,
date, and language, added to authorized access points for creators or
preferred titles for works. So they would be a part of 7xx, 130, 240, 243,
730, or 830 (?) fields. But they would not appear in 1xx fields. Is that
right?

I found the following two examples from the website of Library of Congress
MARC 21 format.

  130

0#$aGone with the wind (Motion picture).$hSound recording.

700

1#$aE., Sheila$q(Escovedo),$d1959- $tDawn, the beginning.$hSound recording.

Under RDA, subfield h Sound recording would be changed to Spoken word, is
that right?


Thanks for your help in advance.



Regards,

Joan Wang


-- 
Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D.
Cataloger -- CMC
Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office)
6725 Goshen Road
Edwardsville, IL 62025
618.656.3216x409
618.656.9401Fax

[RDA-L]

[Joan Wang]

Hi, All

I hope that somebody would like to help me understand authorized access
points for expressions.

We can say that authorized access points for expressions are not separate
access points. They are actually expression elements such as content type,
date, and language, added to authorized access points for creators or
preferred titles for works. So they would be a part of 7xx, 130, 240, 243,
730, or 830 (?) fields. But they would not appear in 1xx fields. Is that
right?

I found the following two examples from the website of Library of Congress
MARC 21 format.

  130

0#$aGone with the wind (Motion picture).$hSound recording.

700

1#$aE., Sheila$q(Escovedo),$d1959- $tDawn, the beginning.$hSound recording.

Under RDA, subfield h Sound recording would be changed to Spoken word, is
that right?


Thanks for your help in advance.



Regards,

Joan Wang

-- 
Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D.
Cataloger -- CMC
Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office)
6725 Goshen Road
Edwardsville, IL 62025
618.656.3216x409
618.656.9401Fax