[RE-wrenches] Photosensor for 12VDC System with load controller
I have a customer with a Xantrex C12 charge controller with LVD controlling a 5A load. Their battery and PV are not large enough to run the load 24/7, and they don't need it to run at night. I am thinking about recommending a photocell to disconnect the load at dusk and turn it back on at dawn. They are not interested in upgrading the PV and battery (too costly). Can anyone recommend a photosensor source, and maybe a model number? Other ideas welcomed... Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Photosensor for 12VDC System with load controller
It think the C12 has a built in night light function. Use a knob on the inside to set up. Thank you, Maverick Maverick Brown BSEET, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ® President CEO Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. Office: 512-919-4493 Cell:512-460-9825 Sent from an iPhone. On Jan 31, 2011, at 7:52 AM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.com wrote: I have a customer with a Xantrex C12 charge controller with LVD controlling a 5A load. Their battery and PV are not large enough to run the load 24/7, and they don’t need it to run at night. I am thinking about recommending a photocell to disconnect the load at dusk and turn it back on at dawn. They are not interested in upgrading the PV and battery (too costly). Can anyone recommend a photosensor source, and maybe a model number? Other ideas welcomed… Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Photosensor for 12VDC System with load controller
Thanks, Maverick, but I believe it only does dusk-dawn operation of lighting. I am looking for the opposite. I want dawn to dusk operation of the load, and shut-off at night. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Maverick Brown [Maverick Solar] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:22 AM To: RE-wrenches Cc: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Photosensor for 12VDC System with load controller It think the C12 has a built in night light function. Use a knob on the inside to set up. Thank you, Maverick Maverick Brown BSEET, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ® President CEO Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. Office: 512-919-4493 Cell:512-460-9825 Sent from an iPhone. On Jan 31, 2011, at 7:52 AM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.com wrote: I have a customer with a Xantrex C12 charge controller with LVD controlling a 5A load. Their battery and PV are not large enough to run the load 24/7, and they don’t need it to run at night. I am thinking about recommending a photocell to disconnect the load at dusk and turn it back on at dawn. They are not interested in upgrading the PV and battery (too costly). Can anyone recommend a photosensor source, and maybe a model number? Other ideas welcomed… Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Photosensor for 12VDC System with load controller
Maverick's suggestion would give the opposite action to what the original poster needs. The C12 night light function turns the load on after dark but Jason needs the opposite. The solar array can serve as your photocell, Jason. The PV +/- terminals in the C12 controller have no power on them at nighttime (check me on that with your voltmeter), but they are energized when there is sunshine. A relay coil connected parallel to the the PV +/- terminals on the C12 should fire when the sun is up and that coil would then release at sundown. Use a single pole single throw normally open relay with a DC coil, and connect the positive leg of your DC load across the normally open connection screws. Make sure the relay coil can accept a wide range of DC input, since it may encounter 20 volts across a 36 cell PV module when the sun first comes up. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:52 AM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.comwrote: I have a customer with a Xantrex C12 charge controller with LVD controlling a 5A load. Their battery and PV are not large enough to run the load 24/7, and they don’t need it to run at night. I am thinking about recommending a photocell to disconnect the load at dusk and turn it back on at dawn. They are not interested in upgrading the PV and battery (too costly). Can anyone recommend a photosensor source, and maybe a model number? Other ideas welcomed… Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Photosensor for 12VDC System with load controller
Excellent idea. Grainger has a SPST Relay in a Box rated for 10-30V AC/DC and 10A. That should work great... Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mick Abraham Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:43 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Photosensor for 12VDC System with load controller Maverick's suggestion would give the opposite action to what the original poster needs. The C12 night light function turns the load on after dark but Jason needs the opposite. The solar array can serve as your photocell, Jason. The PV +/- terminals in the C12 controller have no power on them at nighttime (check me on that with your voltmeter), but they are energized when there is sunshine. A relay coil connected parallel to the the PV +/- terminals on the C12 should fire when the sun is up and that coil would then release at sundown. Use a single pole single throw normally open relay with a DC coil, and connect the positive leg of your DC load across the normally open connection screws. Make sure the relay coil can accept a wide range of DC input, since it may encounter 20 volts across a 36 cell PV module when the sun first comes up. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:52 AM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.com wrote: I have a customer with a Xantrex C12 charge controller with LVD controlling a 5A load. Their battery and PV are not large enough to run the load 24/7, and they don't need it to run at night. I am thinking about recommending a photocell to disconnect the load at dusk and turn it back on at dawn. They are not interested in upgrading the PV and battery (too costly). Can anyone recommend a photosensor source, and maybe a model number? Other ideas welcomed... Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 4, Issue 41
Lars Ortegren Director of Operations California Solar Electric Company 10141 Evening Star Drive, Suite 6 Grass Valley, CA 95945 Phone : (530)274-3671 Fax: (530)274-7518 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 9:48 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 4, Issue 41 Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org You can reach the person managing the list at re-wrenches-ow...@lists.re-wrenches.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest... When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the Subject: line to the original, and please edit out any extraneous lines from the quoted message. Today's Topics: 1. Re: Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods (Keith Cronin) 2. Re: Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods (Keith Cronin) 3. Re: Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods (Joel Davidson) 4. Off grid Trace 2024 off grid w/ Sunny Boynew Installation -- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2011 11:04:29 -0800 (PST) From: Keith Cronin electrich...@yahoo.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods Message-ID: 477749.14898...@web113420.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ray Good points. Clarification: I wasn't suggesting any of us become responsible for every electrical issues on the property, but that we offer a home electrical inspection to point out the deficiencies. The client can decide whether or not to do the work that we've discovered needs upgrading. At the very least, they are informed. In a competitive solar environment, it allows you to be the different integrator- one that is showing the full menu of services and focuses on safety and prudence. Its like when you bring your service van in to the dealership. They do the basic items, then throw it on the computer and tell you, you need X work done. Or as they're doing the visual inspection, they notice X needs to be replaced. We the customer, at that juncture, are informed and can decide whether or not we'd like to proceed. But at least we know and its been brought to our attention. So, yes- if you want to draw a clear line, you can. One proposal for the PV and one for the remediation work. At least they have choices and information that perhaps they weren't aware of before. By taking some digital pics of the overloaded jbox, for example, they now have visual cues as to make decisions about their homes electrical infrastructure. If someone is investing thousands of dollars in a PV system, doing some remedial work seems prudent. Sometimes homeowners haven't had an electrician in their homes for years and aren't even aware they have a hazard lurking in the shadows. You never know, you might or could get a whole house rewire out of the PV job! From: R Ray Walters r...@solarray.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 8:48:06 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods Keith; I try to catch some of those issues on our installs, but the problem is that you then become responsible for every electrical issue on the property. If the wiring that you saw looked that bad, Keith, imagine what might be hidden in the wall? Sometimes its easier to have a nice clear line drawn: we did the solar, everything else is their problem. I definitely start fixing stuff, if I feel its going to spill over and make the solar malfunction. (clean up the load center wiring, service issues, and grounding, knock out that 2nd fridge in the sun) However, rewiring an overloaded 4x4 box is something I recommend not touching, unless you're being hired to rewire the whole place. Just pulling out the wiring for inspection on some old 40's romex, can cause enough insulation to crack and fall away, that when you push it back in you will cause a short. I hate being put in that position. Consider keeping the scope of work just to the load center, and replace breakers with GFCI and AFCI breakers. Then you have substantially improved safety without opening any fresh cans o' worms. (ie overstuffed 4x boxes filled with old wire) R. Walters
Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods
The lawyers should love this creative new installation method! Legacy Solar 864 Clam Falls Trail Frederic, WI 54837 715-653-4295 sol...@legacysolar.com www.legacysolar.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick Soleil Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 9:12 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative,new installation methods Hi wrenches: Have you noticed that roofing companies have recently been trying to sell solar? One company thought of something that I had never considered. Listen to this neat story. I was servicing a job today, where a roofing company recently removed and re-installed a PV array on a 12 degree sloped roof. The funny thing is that the roofer didn't want to penetrate his new roof, so he and the customer decided to leave the panels sitting on the composition roof without any attachments to the structure. They didn't think it was necessary! Shortly afterward, the array slid down the roof, and a MultiContact connector came unplugged. The customer noticed that his system was not operating, and called us to the site. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods
I just got a similar call last Friday, from someone who had bought their “complete offgrid system” from that same “cheapestsolar” outfit Somehow they managed to sell them a 6000 watt panel system for off grid along with enough battery to last them about 3 hours. Along with the 24 225 watt panels, they had also purchased a complete dual Outback VFX 48 volt 6000 watt+ inverter setup. And 400 amp-hours of golf car batteries... It is déjà vu all over again. It has gotten so bad in the past couple of years that we stopped publishing our 800 tech support number. At least when they call us for help with what they bought from a competitor they have to pay for the phone call. From: toddc...@finestplanet.com Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 6:09 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods I had a potential customer call me last week saying he had just bought a bunch of panels and those micro chip things (enphase inverters) so he could get a end of the year tax break. He wanted me to come and install it for him. I told him my work includes a comprehensive energy audit to gather the low hanging fruit first. I also said I do not touch equipment I do not sell or install systems I do not design and that I was sorry but I could not help him. I wished him good luck in getting someone to touch that gear. Too bad the cheapestsolar.com folks don't warn their customers about these kinds of situations. Just like the Carter gold rush days is correct. Todd On Friday, January 28, 2011 2:52pm, Darryl Thayer daryl_so...@yahoo.com said: I installed a system provides by another, it failed, because of defective equipment, I am being sued to replace the defective equipment DT From: boB Gudgel b...@midnitesolar.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 11:25:34 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods On 1/28/2011 8:41 AM, Solar Energy Solutions wrote: Joel, Our company cannot survive without selling an entire system. When we help the unqualified and untrained we legitimize unsubstantiated pv businesses. We get a dozen phone calls a month from folks wanting us to install their systems. It is a rat hole and we have learned that not only are such ventures unprofitable, they are fraught with poor designs and a plethora of other hassles. This whole thing reminds me of the Carter solar Gold Rush where, sure, a bunch of systems were installed, but look at the damage it did to the industry. Respectfully, I just hope that the solar installers' industry doesn't have to start installing roofs, too !! boB Andrew Koyaanisqatsi President Solar Energy Solutions, Inc. Since 1987, Moving Portland and Beyond to an Environmentally Sustainable Future. 503-238-4502 www.solarenergyoregon.com Better one's House too little one day than too big all the Year after. --- On Fri, 1/28/11, Joel Davidson mailto:joel.david...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Joel Davidson mailto:joel.david...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods To: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:06 AM Guys, You're missing a business opportunity. Instead of complaining about roofers' bad work and competition, show the company owners photos of their screw-ups and your quality work. Tell him that he is a risk. Then offer to do their design and electrical installation (let them do the sales, roofing, and grunt work). Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Warren Lauzon To: RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 3:35 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative,new installation methods We have seen a lot of the roofing companies nibbling around the edges of solar installs lately. I have only seen a couple of installs personally, and they were far from what I would call professional or reliable. Not quite as bad as your example, but in one case they had used Romex to run the wiring down to the inverter, and not in conduit. From: Nick Soleil Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 8:11 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative,new installation methods Hi wrenches: Have you noticed that roofing companies have recently been trying to sell solar? One company thought of something that I had never considered. Listen to this neat story. I was
[RE-wrenches] Off grid Trace 4024 off grid w/ Sunny Boy
Hi Wrenches: A few years ago our company set up an A/C coupled micro grid using a quad stack of Outback 3648, with 2 SB6000 inverters tied to the output side of the Outbacks. It worked marvelously, using the grid tied inverters to push the current through the output terminals until the bulk battery voltage is reached, then they are disconnected with relays to prevent overcharging. Both this system and the design I'm working n are supplying power to commercial woodshops that require generators, therefore taking care of the absorb and float stages. My question is, has anyone out there done this type of system with a Trace(or Xantrex, Schnieder)4024? The design I'm working on now has a 1500' conduit run(yikes) and already needs A/C to be run. My plan is to have a SB4000 inverter, wired to a high efficiency 5k 240/480 transformer on the array side, and another 5k 480/120 transformer on the Trace side. I know the design would work with an Outback, but I haven't tried it with a Trace to know. Any experience out there? Lars Ortegren NABCEP Certified Solar Installer Director of Operations California Solar Electric Company 10141 Evening Star Drive, Suite 6 Grass Valley, CA 95945 Phone : (530)274-3671 Fax: (530)274-7518 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods
Well, I thought we were talking about getting into bed with roofers. If we are talking about DIYers, here is my two cents worth. Just so boB and Warren dont appear to be a couple of voices in the wild(erness). I personally do not know of a single PV integrator who would work with a DIYer. The reasons for walking away from this kind of business are so numerous, I will list only the first fourteen: (1) A DIYer looking for some help in installing a PV system, might be looking to avoid pulling a permit, or (2) Expects to pull a permit as an owner-builder, or (3) Wants you to pull the permit (4) Doesnt think we need to perform a site survey, because he got on the roof a couple of weeks ago and everything will fit and there was no shading. (5) Wants you to fill out the rebate paperwork (and not pay for the effort) (6) Doesnt want to pay for engineering either (what do you mean we cant use the 500 ft of #14 THHN wire I bought?) (7) Or for that matter permit documentation (you want $250 to draw up a permit package! Thats outrageous!) (8) Wants the installer to carry the warranty for the stuff his brother bought on the internet from PVPartsForSale (9) Isnt 100% sure exactly what came in the kit (10) Wants the installer to bid on the project based on a PowerPoint layout he did for the modules (What do you mean I have to know the rafter spacing and orientation? I assumed you would cut those black plastic pipes vents flush with the roof. Dont worry Ill move the satellite dish!) (11) Wants to do a little of the work himself on the weekends (Like running some conduit through the attic). (12) Wants the installer to vouch for the fact that the PV modules were purchased new even though there is a fine layer of dirt everywhere on the panels even in the rain channels, and some of the panels have wire clips installed on the backside. (13) Doesnt know anything about his service panel, or whether or not he had a code compliant grounding system, and is not sure what kind of roof he has (I think its tile) or what condition its in (14) And he has done a little unpermitted electrical work in the past, but that shouldnt be a problem should it? - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Warren Lauzon Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:19 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative,new installation methods I just got a similar call last Friday, from someone who had bought their complete offgrid system from that same cheapestsolar outfit Somehow they managed to sell them a 6000 watt panel system for off grid along with enough battery to last them about 3 hours. Along with the 24 225 watt panels, they had also purchased a complete dual Outback VFX 48 volt 6000 watt+ inverter setup. And 400 amp-hours of golf car batteries... It is déjà vu all over again. It has gotten so bad in the past couple of years that we stopped publishing our 800 tech support number. At least when they call us for help with what they bought from a competitor they have to pay for the phone call. From: toddc...@finestplanet.com Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 6:09 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods I had a potential customer call me last week saying he had just bought a bunch of panels and those micro chip things (enphase inverters) so he could get a end of the year tax break. He wanted me to come and install it for him. I told him my work includes a comprehensive energy audit to gather the low hanging fruit first. I also said I do not touch equipment I do not sell or install systems I do not design and that I was sorry but I could not help him. I wished him good luck in getting someone to touch that gear. Too bad the cheapestsolar.com folks don't warn their customers about these kinds of situations. Just like the Carter gold rush days is correct. Todd On Friday, January 28, 2011 2:52pm, Darryl Thayer daryl_so...@yahoo.com said: I installed a system provides by another, it failed, because of defective equipment, I am being sued to replace the defective equipment DT From: boB Gudgel b...@midnitesolar.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 11:25:34 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods On 1/28/2011 8:41 AM, Solar Energy Solutions wrote: Joel, Our company cannot survive without selling an entire system. When we help the unqualified and untrained we legitimize unsubstantiated pv businesses. We get a dozen phone
Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods
I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head there with that list - been there, done that - especially #9. Every time I get one of those calls I have to have them read off the entire list. 90% of the time I see weird things, and know immediately they did not buy it from us. So then my next question to them is did you buy this from us - followed by a long moment of silence before they admit that the company they bought it from is clueless. I think one of the best calls I got recently was someone wondering if the wires getting hot was a problem. I am retiring this year, been in this almost 30 years now, and seeing the same thing come around yet again is getting old. -Original Message- From: Peter Parrish Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:33 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative,new installation methods Well, I thought we were talking about getting into bed with roofers. If we are talking about DIYers, here is my two cents worth. Just so boB and Warren don’t appear to be a couple of voices in the wild(erness). I personally do not know of a single PV integrator who would work with a DIYer. The reasons for walking away from this kind of business are so numerous, I will list only the first fourteen: (1) A DIYer looking for some help in installing a PV system, might be looking to avoid pulling a permit, or (2) Expects to pull a permit as an owner-builder, or (3) Wants you to pull the permit (4) Doesn’t think we need to perform a site survey, because he got on the roof a couple of weeks ago and everything will fit and there was no shading. (5) Wants you to fill out the rebate paperwork (and not pay for the effort) (6) Doesn’t want to pay for engineering either (what do you mean we can’t use the 500 ft of #14 THHN wire I bought?) (7) Or for that matter permit documentation (you want $250 to draw up a permit package! That’s outrageous!) (8) Wants the installer to carry the warranty for the stuff his brother bought on the internet from PVPartsForSale (9) Isn’t 100% sure exactly what came in the “kit” (10) Wants the installer to bid on the project based on a PowerPoint layout he did for the modules (What do you mean I have to know the rafter spacing and orientation? I assumed you would cut those black plastic pipes vents flush with the roof. Don’t worry I’ll move the satellite dish!) (11) Wants to do “a little of the work himself on the weekends” (Like running some conduit through the attic). (12) Wants the installer to vouch for the fact that the PV modules were purchased “new” even though there is a fine layer of dirt everywhere on the panels even in the rain channels, and some of the panels have wire clips installed on the backside. (13) Doesn’t know anything about his service panel, or whether or not he had a code compliant grounding system, and is not sure what kind of roof he has (I think it’s “tile”) or what condition it’s in (14) And he has done a little unpermitted electrical work in the past, but that shouldn’t be a problem should it? - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Warren Lauzon Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:19 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative,new installation methods I just got a similar call last Friday, from someone who had bought their “complete offgrid system” from that same “cheapestsolar” outfit Somehow they managed to sell them a 6000 watt panel system for off grid along with enough battery to last them about 3 hours. Along with the 24 225 watt panels, they had also purchased a complete dual Outback VFX 48 volt 6000 watt+ inverter setup. And 400 amp-hours of golf car batteries... It is déjà vu all over again. It has gotten so bad in the past couple of years that we stopped publishing our 800 tech support number. At least when they call us for help with what they bought from a competitor they have to pay for the phone call. From: toddc...@finestplanet.com Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 6:09 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods I had a potential customer call me last week saying he had just bought a bunch of panels and those micro chip things (enphase inverters) so he could get a end of the year tax break. He wanted me to come and install it for him. I told him my work includes a comprehensive energy audit to gather the low hanging fruit first. I also said I do not touch equipment I do not sell or install systems I do not design and that I was sorry but I could not help him. I wished him good luck in getting someone to touch that
Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge
I was looking at the public systems on the Solar Edge site, but did not know which system was yours, Pekka. However, I noticed that the system labelled AEE-Solar seemed to have an issue. The production data for each day shows a huge drop in power during the middle of the day, which comes back up later in the afternoon. That is not the kind of production that I would be looking for. Can anyone explain what is happening to there? Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Pekka Laine pe...@photonsolarpower.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 11:32:42 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Hello everyone, I have installed four SolarEdge systems so far and am happy share my experiences My first installation is available for public monitoring via monitoring.solaredge.com. It consists of 26 Aleo s_1.8 225W modules, 26 PowerBoxes installed on Unirac solarmount rail and SolarEdge 5000US inverter. It was commissioned on June 6,2010 and has produced 6.3 MWh of total energy. Pros: Module level monitoring Centralized inverter Safety voltage for servicing the system Free internet monitoring iPhone application Cons: Additional wire management and zip-tieing to the racking system Homerun is DC so it needs to be inside conduit (vs. Enphase) Tip: Remember to write down your serial numbers for PowerBoxes before installing the modules. I am happy to answer any other questions as well. Best regards, Pekka Laine President Photon Solar Power Inc. www.PhotonSolarPower.com Cell. 760-556-8170 Toll Free 888-SUN-ACDC Lic. #933648 Hello, Can anyone speak to real-life pros and/or cons of Solaredge module MPPT products and performance? Thanks. Kirk Herander Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 NABCEP(tm) Certified Solar Installer NYSERDA-eligible Installer VT Solar Incentive Program Partner ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge
Hi Nick, I'm in that building. The system uses Sharp 185W (72-cell) modules, mounted on the roof. Even though it's a three-story building, it's not tall enough to catch any sun in mid-day because of three tall redwood trees in front of the building. The shading is not a problem for most of the year, but it sure is in January. We don't want to cut the treesthis is Redway CA, after all, so the Reds have their way. The SolarEdge equipment was just installed about a month or so ago, so we don't have year-round data yet. The PV array was previously connected to a variety of inverters, including an OutBack PS1, and even an old Beacon M5. I'm sure that the SolarEdge stuff will provide more output...when we actually get the sun on the array. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick Soleil Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 4:29 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge I was looking at the public systems on the Solar Edge site, but did not know which system was yours, Pekka. However, I noticed that the system labelled AEE-Solar seemed to have an issue. The production data for each day shows a huge drop in power during the middle of the day, which comes back up later in the afternoon. That is not the kind of production that I would be looking for. Can anyone explain what is happening to there? Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 From: Pekka Laine pe...@photonsolarpower.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 11:32:42 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Hello everyone, I have installed four SolarEdge systems so far and am happy share my experiences My first installation is available for public monitoring via monitoring.solaredge.comhttp://monitoring.solaredge.com. It consists of 26 Aleo s_1.8 225W modules, 26 PowerBoxes installed on Unirac solarmount rail and SolarEdge 5000US inverter. It was commissioned on June 6,2010 and has produced 6.3 MWh of total energy. Pros: Module level monitoring Centralized inverter Safety voltage for servicing the system Free internet monitoring iPhone application Cons: Additional wire management and zip-tieing to the racking system Homerun is DC so it needs to be inside conduit (vs. Enphase) Tip: Remember to write down your serial numbers for PowerBoxes before installing the modules. I am happy to answer any other questions as well. Best regards, Pekka Laine President Photon Solar Power Inc. www.PhotonSolarPower.comhttp://www.PhotonSolarPower.com Cell. 760-556-8170 Toll Free 888-SUN-ACDC Lic. #933648 Hello, Can anyone speak to real-life pros and/or cons of Solaredge module MPPT products and performance? Thanks. Kirk Herander Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 NABCEP(tm) Certified Solar Installer NYSERDA-eligible Installer VT Solar Incentive Program Partner ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgmailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmhttp://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.orghttp://www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
