Well, I thought we were talking about getting into bed with roofers. If we are talking about DIYers, here is my two cents worth.
Just so boB and Warren dont appear to be a couple of voices in the wild(erness). I personally do not know of a single PV integrator who would work with a DIYer. The reasons for walking away from this kind of business are so numerous, I will list only the first fourteen: (1) A DIYer looking for some help in installing a PV system, might be looking to avoid pulling a permit, or (2) Expects to pull a permit as an owner-builder, or (3) Wants you to pull the permit (4) Doesnt think we need to perform a site survey, because he got on the roof a couple of weeks ago and everything will fit and there was no shading. (5) Wants you to fill out the rebate paperwork (and not pay for the effort) (6) Doesnt want to pay for engineering either (what do you mean we cant use the 500 ft of #14 THHN wire I bought?) (7) Or for that matter permit documentation (you want $250 to draw up a permit package! Thats outrageous!) (8) Wants the installer to carry the warranty for the stuff his brother bought on the internet from PVPartsForSale (9) Isnt 100% sure exactly what came in the kit (10) Wants the installer to bid on the project based on a PowerPoint layout he did for the modules (What do you mean I have to know the rafter spacing and orientation? I assumed you would cut those "black plastic pipes" vents flush with the roof. Dont worry Ill move the satellite dish!) (11) Wants to do a little of the work himself on the weekends (Like running some conduit through the attic). (12) Wants the installer to vouch for the fact that the PV modules were purchased new even though there is a fine layer of dirt everywhere on the panels even in the rain channels, and some of the panels have wire clips installed on the backside. (13) Doesnt know anything about his service panel, or whether or not he had a code compliant grounding system, and is not sure what kind of roof he has (I think its tile) or what condition its in (14) And he has done a little unpermitted electrical work in the past, but that shouldnt be a problem should it? - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ________________________________________ From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Warren Lauzon Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:19 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative,new installation methods I just got a similar call last Friday, from someone who had bought their complete offgrid system from that same cheapestsolar outfit Somehow they managed to sell them a 6000 watt panel system for off grid along with enough battery to last them about 3 hours. Along with the 24 225 watt panels, they had also purchased a complete dual Outback VFX 48 volt 6000 watt+ inverter setup. And 400 amp-hours of golf car batteries... It is déjà vu all over again. It has gotten so bad in the past couple of years that we stopped publishing our 800 tech support number. At least when they call us for help with what they bought from a competitor they have to pay for the phone call. From: toddc...@finestplanet.com Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 6:09 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods I had a potential customer call me last week saying he had just bought a "bunch of panels and those micro chip things (enphase inverters) so he could get a end of the year tax break". He wanted me to come and install it for him. I told him my work includes a comprehensive energy audit to gather the low hanging fruit first. I also said I do not touch equipment I do not sell or install systems I do not design and that I was sorry but I could not help him. I wished him good luck in getting someone to touch that gear. Too bad the cheapestsolar.com folks don't warn their customers about these kinds of situations. Just like the Carter gold rush days is correct. Todd On Friday, January 28, 2011 2:52pm, "Darryl Thayer" <daryl_so...@yahoo.com> said: I installed a system provides by another, it failed, because of defective equipment, I am being sued to replace the defective equipment DT ________________________________________ From: boB Gudgel <b...@midnitesolar.com> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 11:25:34 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods On 1/28/2011 8:41 AM, Solar Energy Solutions wrote: Joel, Our company cannot survive without selling an entire system. When we help the unqualified and untrained we legitimize unsubstantiated pv businesses. We get a dozen phone calls a month from folks wanting us to install their systems. It is a rat hole and we have learned that not only are such ventures unprofitable, they are fraught with poor designs and a plethora of other hassles. This whole thing reminds me of the Carter solar Gold Rush where, sure, a bunch of systems were installed, but look at the damage it did to the industry. Respectfully, I just hope that the solar installers' industry doesn't have to start installing roofs, too !! boB Andrew Koyaanisqatsi President Solar Energy Solutions, Inc. Since 1987, Moving Portland and Beyond to an Environmentally Sustainable Future. 503-238-4502 www.solarenergyoregon.com "Better one's House too little one day than too big all the Year after." --- On Fri, 1/28/11, Joel Davidson mailto:joel.david...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Joel Davidson mailto:joel.david...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods To: "RE-wrenches" mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:06 AM Guys, You're missing a business opportunity. Instead of complaining about roofers' bad work and competition, show the company owners photos of their screw-ups and your quality work. Tell him that he is a risk. Then offer to do their design and electrical installation (let them do the sales, roofing, and grunt work). Joel Davidson ----- Original Message ----- From: Warren Lauzon To: RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 3:35 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative,new installation methods We have seen a lot of the roofing companies nibbling around the edges of solar installs lately. I have only seen a couple of installs personally, and they were far from what I would call professional or reliable. Not quite as bad as your example, but in one case they had used Romex to run the wiring down to the inverter, and not in conduit. From: Nick Soleil Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 8:11 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative,new installation methods Hi wrenches: Have you noticed that roofing companies have recently been trying to sell solar? One company thought of something that I had never considered. Listen to this neat story. I was servicing a job today, where a roofing company recently removed and re-installed a PV array on a 12 degree sloped roof. The funny thing is that the roofer didn't want to penetrate his new roof, so he and the customer decided to leave the panels sitting on the composition roof without any attachments to the structure. They didn't think it was necessary! Shortly afterward, the array slid down the roof, and a MultiContact connector came unplugged. The customer noticed that his system was not operating, and called us to the site. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. ________________________________________ _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity from the sun since 1979 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Online Solar Store Free Solar Discussion Forum -------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org