Re: [RE-wrenches] AC De-combiner?

[William Miller]

Al:

If I understand this correctly, you are attempting something that should 
not be done.  Once you combine sources you can not separate them.  How can 
you control the feed so only half goes into each fused switch?  This defies 
physics and is faulty design.  You have to run the feeder required.


William Miller

PS:  You did say all feedback is appreciated

Wm


At 02:27 AM 1/26/2013, you wrote:

Fellow Wrencher's,
I have a project that I will be installing 4 string inverters on a roof 
and combining the output into a 3 phase Load center.   Once in the 
basement I would like to de-combine the output so I can utilize two 
available 100A fused switches that are part of the buildings existing 
service (Siemens Vacu-Break Fusible Units).   I am trying to avoid running 
two sets of conduit & conductors or having to upsize the conductors for # 
of current carrying conductors in a single raceway.  What off the shelf 
products are available for de-combining the AC output I describe? Can 
I use a junction box with polaris lugs?


All feedback is appreciated.

Al Frishman
AeonSolar

(917) 699-6641 - cell
(888) 460-2867
www.aeonsolar.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Husqvarna 5500 and VFX3524 Compatibility

[Ray Walters]

Usually those portable generators have very poor wave forms, with a big 
spike on the leading edge of the sine wave.  Frequency regulation also 
can be all over the place as it gulps gas and sputters on impurities, 
etc.  When they get loaded, you keep the nasty little spike, but then 
the whole wave just squashes down too.  I've seen the peak (which should 
be 169v on a 117 v pure sine)  hitting under 140 v peak.
I usually recommend charging with cheap gennies in the day, and limiting 
other loads.  He definitely can't blame the inverter, as the generator 
power is just passing through a transfer switch straight to the loads 
when its running.  You're right to try backing down the charge rate and 
watch the generator waveform.  If you don't have an oscilloscope, a 
Fluke 87 can capture the peaks in fast capture mode.  Todd is also on to 
something, that generator doesn't have full output at 120 v, so you need 
a transformer to get a balanced full output from it.  Maxing out one 
leg, while the other leg is unloaded will eventually cause uneven wear 
of the generator.


Ray Walters

On 1/27/2013 4:20 PM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote:


just curious... is this a 240 volt genny with only one leg loaded?

todd

On Sunday, January 27, 2013 1:34pm, "Greg Egan" 
 said:


Wrenchers and Wrenchettes,

A customer has a husq. 5500 generator and an Outback inverter.  His 
lights flicker in the house when he's charging.  Recently his 
generator died and he's having it repaired next week.  I think he 
thinks the inverter is causing the problem.  My understanding is that 
some generators have less accurate voltage regulators than others and 
the ones with the cheaper regulators have a hard time regulating when 
connected to a non linear load such as a battery charger.  I don't 
have a way to look at the sine wave but I suspect this is the problem 
here.


The trouble shooting I was planning was to take his (repaired) 
generator and connect it to the inverter and put a 15 amp charging 
load on the genny and turn on some lights.  If they flicker, start 
backing off on the charging amps and see if the flickering goes to 
zero as the charging load on the genset goes to zero.  The logic here 
is that if we take the charging load out of the circuit and the lights 
stop flickering and the genny stops surging, that what we have is an 
AVR that doesn't like the battery charger as a load and is "confused" 
by it.  Would this be correct?


If it is a VR problem I think switching to a Honda EU series inverter 
will solve the problem but customer doesn't want to buy a new genny.  
I read a post in the archives regarding generator compatibility and 
they recommended adding a resistive load when the charger is running. 
I've also heard there was a way of correcting compatibility problems 
with a capacitor.  If this is so, has anyone done it before and if so 
do you know the size and type of cap I'd need and where I would 
connect it in the circuit?


I called Outback Tech support and the person I talked to didn't seem 
to really know what I was talking about.  If I get this resolved I'll 
probably forward the solution to Outback for their FAQ's


Thanks for the assist - I appreciate it!
--

Greg Egan

Remote Power Inc.

ph (907)457-4299
fx (907)457-4290
www.remotepowerinc.com 




Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.


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[RE-wrenches] high insolation value and inverter undersizing

[Marco Mangelsdorf]

I have had a concern for a long time that as PV modules have gone up in
output that there is inevitably going to be more and more clipping taking
place as they’re paired with comparatively lower output inverters.  In
effect, matching, say. a 260-watt module with a micro inverter with a max
output of 225 watts reduces that 260-watt mod to 225 watts.  It’s not a
matter of if clipping will take place, but how much and how much actual
harvestable energy will be lost.

 

Out here in the tropics, even in January with the lower sun angle, we see
irradiance levels well above 1,000 watts/square meter range.  Take a look at
what I copied today from a weather station that we installed at nearby
installation.

 

Given the clipping issue inherent in using undersized inverters, it seems to
me that moving to larger output micros makes a whole lotta sense.  I’ve got
one of the first installs using the Power-One 250-watt and 300-watt micros
and am so far quite impressed.  Why use a 225-watt rated micro with a
225-watt or higher output mod when larger micros are now readily available?

 

What are the views out there regarding this clipping issue?  Is it as
minimal as our Enphase friends suggest in their latest white paper or more
of an issue as I conclude?

 

marco

 

 

Environmentals from Weather Station at a Hilo, Hawaii installation

 

Sunday, January 27th 2013, 12:40:00 pm

https://easyview.auroravision.net/easyview/images/icons/weather/temp-red.png

 

Ambient Temp. 25.30 °C

Cell Temp. 41.70 °C

 

https://easyview.auroravision.net/easyview/images/icons/weather/sun-yellow.p
ng

 

Insolation 127.81 kWh/m²

Irradiance 1,175.00 W/m²

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Husqvarna 5500 and VFX3524 Compatibility

[Dan Fink]

We have run into many problems on very remote sites with various really
nice, small newer inverter/chargers not accepting waveforms from various
newer (inverter-based) generators. For example on one particular system
Honda 1000i works fine, Honda 2000i works fine, Honda 3000i and the charger
says "no." Plug a different Honda 3000i into the the same inverter/charger,
works fine. After sling-loading the Honda there by helicopter. Argh!
Inverter makers have been very helpful but the settings just can't be
tweaked that far, RE Wrenches list gurus have been awesomely helpful, Honda
not so helpful but at least honest.

My service calls by helicopter this year will include an O-scope. I really
want to get to the bottom of the problem. It plagues us. I like Iota
 chargers more and more every summer.

-- 
Dan Fink,
Executive Director;
Otherpower
Buckville Energy Consulting
Buckville Publications LLC
NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
970.672.4342 (voicemail)
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Re: [RE-wrenches] high insolation value and inverter undersizing

[Jesse Dahl]

A while back (3 years)I installed a system (bid spec) for a school that used 
215W RECs and D380s on a dual axis tracker.  With the ability to monitor the 
array, I see constant clipping.  The modules will usually produce 199Ws 
regularly.  A few days ago we had temps of -34F and clear skies.  My array at 
home had one of its best days this winter.  I have Tigos on so I can monitor 
watts, current, temp and voltage. I was seeing anywhere from 215W to 223W from 
my modules between 11:30am and 1pm.  The modules on the tracker were still 
producing 199W.  I didn't get an irradiance reading that day but my Tigos 
showed above IMP readings and way above VMP reading that day.

I've only been doing this for 6 years, so I don't have the experience  that 
some people on this list have, but it seems foolish to me to waste that 
production.  It's kinda site specific, but where I live the cold temps and snow 
reflection seem like something we should be utilizing.  

I'm interested in the thoughts of others.


Jesse

Sent from my iPad!!!

On Jan 27, 2013, at 5:00 PM, "Marco Mangelsdorf"  wrote:

> I have had a concern for a long time that as PV modules have gone up in 
> output that there is inevitably going to be more and more clipping taking 
> place as they’re paired with comparatively lower output inverters.  In 
> effect, matching, say. a 260-watt module with a micro inverter with a max 
> output of 225 watts reduces that 260-watt mod to 225 watts.  It’s not a 
> matter of if clipping will take place, but how much and how much actual 
> harvestable energy will be lost.
>  
> Out here in the tropics, even in January with the lower sun angle, we see 
> irradiance levels well above 1,000 watts/square meter range.  Take a look at 
> what I copied today from a weather station that we installed at nearby 
> installation.
>  
> Given the clipping issue inherent in using undersized inverters, it seems to 
> me that moving to larger output micros makes a whole lotta sense.  I’ve got 
> one of the first installs using the Power-One 250-watt and 300-watt micros 
> and am so far quite impressed.  Why use a 225-watt rated micro with a 
> 225-watt or higher output mod when larger micros are now readily available?
>  
> What are the views out there regarding this clipping issue?  Is it as minimal 
> as our Enphase friends suggest in their latest white paper or more of an 
> issue as I conclude?
>  
> marco
>  
>  
> Environmentals from Weather Station at a Hilo, Hawaii installation
>  
> Sunday, January 27th 2013, 12:40:00 pm
> 
>  
> Ambient Temp. 25.30 °C
> Cell Temp. 41.70 °C
>  
> 
>  
> Insolation 127.81 kWh/m²
> Irradiance 1,175.00 W/m²
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Husqvarna 5500 and VFX3524 Compatibility

[Carl Hansen]

 Dan,
   You may be do this as well, but I frequently deal with homeowners 
with inexpensive generators, I find that the Outback and Magnum 
inverters are very tolerant but I do generally have to load the 
generator up to where I want it bulk charging the batteries, then adjust 
the generator speed to dial in the freqency to 60Hz using the throttle 
adj.  screw.
   Do you find the Iota chargers can reach bulk charge voltages, or 
even EQ voltages ?


Carl Hansen

On 1/27/2013 5:15 PM, Dan Fink wrote:
We have run into many problems on very remote sites with various 
really nice, small newer inverter/chargers not accepting waveforms 
from various newer (inverter-based) generators. For example on one 
particular system Honda 1000i works fine, Honda 2000i works fine, 
Honda 3000i and the charger says "no." Plug a different Honda 3000i 
into the the same inverter/charger, works fine. After sling-loading 
the Honda there by helicopter. Argh! Inverter makers have been 
very helpful but the settings just can't be tweaked that far, RE 
Wrenches list gurus have been awesomely helpful, Honda not so helpful 
but at least honest.


My service calls by helicopter this year will include an O-scope. I 
really want to get to the bottom of the problem. It plagues us. I like 
Iota  chargers more and more every summer.


--
Dan Fink,
Executive Director;
Otherpower
Buckville Energy Consulting
Buckville Publications LLC
NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
970.672.4342 (voicemail)




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Re: [RE-wrenches] high insolation value and inverter undersizing

[William Miller]

Jesse:

Do you have any way to compare the total harvest for the day for a given 
module in a "clipping" scenario versus an unclipping?  The question I want 
to answer is: Do we improve production enough on the shoulders of the clip 
to justify the loss on the peak?


Thanks,

William Miller


At 06:25 PM 1/27/2013, you wrote:
A while back (3 years)I installed a system (bid spec) for a school that 
used 215W RECs and D380s on a dual axis tracker.  With the ability to 
monitor the array, I see constant clipping.  The modules will usually 
produce 199Ws regularly.  A few days ago we had temps of -34F and clear 
skies.  My array at home had one of its best days this winter.  I have 
Tigos on so I can monitor watts, current, temp and voltage. I was seeing 
anywhere from 215W to 223W from my modules between 11:30am and 1pm.  The 
modules on the tracker were still producing 199W.  I didn't get an 
irradiance reading that day but my Tigos showed above IMP readings and way 
above VMP reading that day.


I've only been doing this for 6 years, so I don't have the 
experience  that some people on this list have, but it seems foolish to me 
to waste that production.  It's kinda site specific, but where I live the 
cold temps and snow reflection seem like something we should be utilizing.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Husqvarna 5500 and VFX3524 Compatibility

[jay peltz]

Many versions of the Iota, Todd before them and now Power Max ( 12v and 24v are 
available, not sure yet on the 48v) are adjustable or can be ordered with an 
adjustment feature which will allow for   higher than normal setpoints.  16v+ 
if you want it

Jay 
peltz power


On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:31 PM, Carl Hansen wrote:

>  Dan,
>You may be do this as well, but I frequently deal with homeowners with 
> inexpensive generators, I find that the Outback and Magnum inverters are very 
> tolerant but I do generally have to load the generator up to where I want it 
> bulk charging the batteries, then adjust the generator speed to dial in the 
> freqency to 60Hz using the throttle adj.  screw.
>Do you find the Iota chargers can reach bulk charge voltages, or even EQ 
> voltages ?
> 
> Carl Hansen
> 
> On 1/27/2013 5:15 PM, Dan Fink wrote:
>> We have run into many problems on very remote sites with various really 
>> nice, small newer inverter/chargers not accepting waveforms from various 
>> newer (inverter-based) generators. For example on one particular system 
>> Honda 1000i works fine, Honda 2000i works fine, Honda 3000i and the charger 
>> says "no." Plug a different Honda 3000i into the the same inverter/charger, 
>> works fine. After sling-loading the Honda there by helicopter. Argh! 
>> Inverter makers have been very helpful but the settings just can't be 
>> tweaked that far, RE Wrenches list gurus have been awesomely helpful, Honda 
>> not so helpful but at least honest.
>> 
>> My service calls by helicopter this year will include an O-scope. I really 
>> want to get to the bottom of the problem. It plagues us. I like Iota  
>> chargers more and more every summer.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Dan Fink,
>> Executive Director;
>> Otherpower
>> Buckville Energy Consulting
>> Buckville Publications LLC
>> NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
>> 970.672.4342 (voicemail)
>> 
> 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] high insolation value and inverter undersizing

[jay peltz]

There are many reasons you might want to limit AC output.  Say 120%buss bar 
rule or some other rebate situation where its sized on AC, not DC size.  So you 
can maximize your daily production without going over the peak AC limit.

Jay

peltz power


On Jan 27, 2013, at 8:05 PM, William Miller wrote:

> Jesse:
> 
> Do you have any way to compare the total harvest for the day for a given 
> module in a "clipping" scenario versus an unclipping?  The question I want to 
> answer is: Do we improve production enough on the shoulders of the clip to 
> justify the loss on the peak?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> William Miller
> 
> 
> At 06:25 PM 1/27/2013, you wrote:
>> A while back (3 years)I installed a system (bid spec) for a school that used 
>> 215W RECs and D380s on a dual axis tracker.  With the ability to monitor the 
>> array, I see constant clipping.  The modules will usually produce 199Ws 
>> regularly.  A few days ago we had temps of -34F and clear skies.  My array 
>> at home had one of its best days this winter.  I have Tigos on so I can 
>> monitor watts, current, temp and voltage. I was seeing anywhere from 215W to 
>> 223W from my modules between 11:30am and 1pm.  The modules on the tracker 
>> were still producing 199W.  I didn't get an irradiance reading that day but 
>> my Tigos showed above IMP readings and way above VMP reading that day.
>> 
>> I've only been doing this for 6 years, so I don't have the experience  that 
>> some people on this list have, but it seems foolish to me to waste that 
>> production.  It's kinda site specific, but where I live the cold temps and 
>> snow reflection seem like something we should be utilizing.
> 
> _
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Re: [RE-wrenches] high insolation value and inverter undersizing

[Jesse Dahl]

I see I forgot to mention that I have 210W modules on my home that were 
producing the 215W to 223W. 

William,

Your question is a good one.   I've wanted to study this, but haven't had a 
chance.  I will look into it. 

Jesse 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 27, 2013, at 10:05 PM, William Miller  wrote:

> Jesse:
> 
> Do you have any way to compare the total harvest for the day for a given 
> module in a "clipping" scenario versus an unclipping?  The question I want to 
> answer is: Do we improve production enough on the shoulders of the clip to 
> justify the loss on the peak?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> William Miller
> 
> 
> At 06:25 PM 1/27/2013, you wrote:
>> A while back (3 years)I installed a system (bid spec) for a school that used 
>> 215W RECs and D380s on a dual axis tracker.  With the ability to monitor the 
>> array, I see constant clipping.  The modules will usually produce 199Ws 
>> regularly.  A few days ago we had temps of -34F and clear skies.  My array 
>> at home had one of its best days this winter.  I have Tigos on so I can 
>> monitor watts, current, temp and voltage. I was seeing anywhere from 215W to 
>> 223W from my modules between 11:30am and 1pm.  The modules on the tracker 
>> were still producing 199W.  I didn't get an irradiance reading that day but 
>> my Tigos showed above IMP readings and way above VMP reading that day.
>> 
>> I've only been doing this for 6 years, so I don't have the experience  that 
>> some people on this list have, but it seems foolish to me to waste that 
>> production.  It's kinda site specific, but where I live the cold temps and 
>> snow reflection seem like something we should be utilizing.
> 
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