Re: [RE-wrenches] solar ramp

[Kent Osterberg]

Paul,

There is discussion of this issue in /Power/ 
. 
//A year or so ago I read an article about this topic and in it the 
conclusion was that the diversity inherent in distributed generation, 
even over a small geographic, averaged out so that the grid was not 
subject to large sudden output changes  from passing clouds.  The timing 
of when clouds shadowed different systems washed out the variation such 
that the grid did not see large sudden power changes. Obviously that 
would be different for a utility scale system where clouds could reduce 
the output of an entire plant in a few short amount of time. The 
article  may have been in /Solar Today/, /Solar Industry/ or /Sun & Wind 
Energy/, unfortunately I can't find it now so maybe it was someplace else.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar, Inc.
www.bluemountainsolar.com

On 3/15/2013 10:27 PM, Paul Israel wrote:
Does anyone know of any specific instances of a "solar ramp" problem 
in California?   In that the curtailment of solar production (clouds) 
has caused a problem on the utility grid?




--
Paul N. Israel, President
Sunlight Solar Energy, Inc.
541/322-1910 Direct
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Re: [RE-wrenches] bad battery = system overvoltage = dead inverter

[Dan Fink]

Morningstar tristar MPPT60
Dan Fink,



On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Jay Peltz  wrote:
> Hi Dan
>
> Can you tell us which CC?
>
> Thx
>
> Jay
>
> Peltz power
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] bad battery = system overvoltage = dead inverter

[Jay Peltz]

Hi Dan

Can you tell us which CC?

Thx

Jay

Peltz power

Sent from my iPhone
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] bad battery = system overvoltage = dead inverter

[Randy Brooks]

Has anyone tried using a battery management system (BMS) like those used on 
electric vehicle battery banks?  Here is an example:
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/products?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=87&category_id=22

Randy Brooks
Brooks Solar, Inc.
Solar Power for People
140 Columbia View
Chelan, WA  98816
509-682-9646
ra...@brookssolar.com
www.BrooksSolar.com

On Mar 15, 2013, at 8:05 PM, Dan Fink  wrote:

> This has been happening all too frequently here. We live in a big area
> of off grid homes, dozens of systems.
> Lost a customers Trace 2624 this morning; One L-16 in older 24v bank
> opened internally. PV array/MPPT control zorched inverter as soon as
> the sun came up. First indication of problems last nite when customer
> hit microwave to warm up dinner and inverter went crazy. This morning
> the bad battery showed 3.2v (yes, I would expect 2 or 4 also) the rest
> the usual 6+v. Turned on PV array, bad battery immediately up to 11v
> (yes, 6v L16).
> 
> Somebody needs to build a "battery condom" with big stacked diodes on
> a big heat sink or some such solution. A voltage brick wall for system
> charging inputs. MPPT PV controllers do NOT protect a inverter from
> input overvoltage if all or part of the battery bank disappears! And
> last year we saw a nice battery box fire and zorched inverters due to
> similar -- dual 48v L16 strings, one cell failed and opened, other
> string dumped everything into the bad one, smoke and flames. Parallel
> fusing would have stopped that..but not stopped the loss of dual
> stacked XW inverters from PV overvoltage.
> 
> Or am I missing something here?
> 
> Dan Fink,
> Executive Director;
> Otherpower
> Buckville Energy Consulting
> Buckville Publications LLC
> NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
> 970.672.4342
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Re: [RE-wrenches] bad battery = system overvoltage = dead inverter

[Ryan]

Chris
Yes some charge controllers regulate pretty slow. So if the battery goes 
away on them they can skyrocket in voltage on there battery side before 
they can catch themselves. This may only be for 2-3 seconds or so but 
that is all it takes to send an inverter up in smoke.


This is also the reason you here people complain of small AGM battery 
banks going over voltage from time to time. These same slower 
controllers will take that same 2-3 seconds to catch themselves if a big 
load is turned off.


Ryan
--
Ryan Stankevitz
Technical Support Manager
MidNite Solar Inc.
r...@midnitesolar.com
360-403-7207 XT 151
Skype ID ryan.midnite

On 3/16/2013 10:28 AM, Chris Mason wrote:
I want to understand the issue if you don't mind. Are you saying that 
an MPPT charge controller has no voltage limits? I would have presumed 
a CC would know that there is no batteries attached.
From your email, you want a device that will measure the CC output 
voltage, and shut it down if it exceeds a limit. For the 48V systems I 
normally install, that would be ...65V?
It would be trivial to setup an Arduino with a voltage input to 
monitor the CC output voltage. The harder part would be to turn off 
the CC when there was excessive voltage. Unless the CC had an Aux 
input, you would need a contact rated for the DC Current. Other than, 
it's very simple to do.



On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Dan Fink > wrote:


This has been happening all too frequently here. We live in a big area
of off grid homes, dozens of systems.
Lost a customers Trace 2624 this morning; One L-16 in older 24v bank
opened internally. PV array/MPPT control zorched inverter as soon as
the sun came up. First indication of problems last nite when customer
hit microwave to warm up dinner and inverter went crazy. This morning
the bad battery showed 3.2v (yes, I would expect 2 or 4 also) the rest
the usual 6+v. Turned on PV array, bad battery immediately up to 11v
(yes, 6v L16).

Somebody needs to build a "battery condom" with big stacked diodes on
a big heat sink or some such solution. A voltage brick wall for system
charging inputs. MPPT PV controllers do NOT protect a inverter from
input overvoltage if all or part of the battery bank disappears! And
last year we saw a nice battery box fire and zorched inverters due to
similar -- dual 48v L16 strings, one cell failed and opened, other
string dumped everything into the bad one, smoke and flames. Parallel
fusing would have stopped that..but not stopped the loss of dual
stacked XW inverters from PV overvoltage.

Or am I missing something here?

Dan Fink,
Executive Director;
Otherpower
Buckville Energy Consulting
Buckville Publications LLC
NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
970.672.4342
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--
Chris Mason
President, Comet Systems Ltd
www.cometenergysystems.com 
Cell: 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts


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Re: [RE-wrenches] bad battery = system overvoltage = dead inverter

[Chris Mason]

I want to understand the issue if you don't mind. Are you saying that an
MPPT charge controller has no voltage limits? I would have presumed a CC
would know that there is no batteries attached.
>From your email, you want a device that will measure the CC output voltage,
and shut it down if it exceeds a limit. For the 48V systems I normally
install, that would be ...65V?
It would be trivial to setup an Arduino with a voltage input to monitor the
CC output voltage. The harder part would be to turn off the CC when there
was excessive voltage. Unless the CC had an Aux input, you would need a
contact rated for the DC Current. Other than, it's very simple to do.


On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 11:05 PM, Dan Fink  wrote:

> This has been happening all too frequently here. We live in a big area
> of off grid homes, dozens of systems.
> Lost a customers Trace 2624 this morning; One L-16 in older 24v bank
> opened internally. PV array/MPPT control zorched inverter as soon as
> the sun came up. First indication of problems last nite when customer
> hit microwave to warm up dinner and inverter went crazy. This morning
> the bad battery showed 3.2v (yes, I would expect 2 or 4 also) the rest
> the usual 6+v. Turned on PV array, bad battery immediately up to 11v
> (yes, 6v L16).
>
> Somebody needs to build a "battery condom" with big stacked diodes on
> a big heat sink or some such solution. A voltage brick wall for system
> charging inputs. MPPT PV controllers do NOT protect a inverter from
> input overvoltage if all or part of the battery bank disappears! And
> last year we saw a nice battery box fire and zorched inverters due to
> similar -- dual 48v L16 strings, one cell failed and opened, other
> string dumped everything into the bad one, smoke and flames. Parallel
> fusing would have stopped that..but not stopped the loss of dual
> stacked XW inverters from PV overvoltage.
>
> Or am I missing something here?
>
> Dan Fink,
> Executive Director;
> Otherpower
> Buckville Energy Consulting
> Buckville Publications LLC
> NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
> 970.672.4342
> ___
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-- 
Chris Mason
President, Comet Systems Ltd
www.cometenergysystems.com
Cell: 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] bad battery = system overvoltage = dead inverter

[Ryan]

Dan
Not all MPPT controllers do this. We took great pains to stop this in 
the Classic. But even then there could be a wind turbine or something 
hooked direct that could cause this so I could see a possible need for it.


Ryan
--
Ryan Stankevitz
Technical Support Manager
MidNite Solar Inc.
r...@midnitesolar.com
360-403-7207 XT 151
Skype ID ryan.midnite

On 3/15/2013 11:05 PM, Dan Fink wrote:

This has been happening all too frequently here. We live in a big area
of off grid homes, dozens of systems.
Lost a customers Trace 2624 this morning; One L-16 in older 24v bank
opened internally. PV array/MPPT control zorched inverter as soon as
the sun came up. First indication of problems last nite when customer
hit microwave to warm up dinner and inverter went crazy. This morning
the bad battery showed 3.2v (yes, I would expect 2 or 4 also) the rest
the usual 6+v. Turned on PV array, bad battery immediately up to 11v
(yes, 6v L16).

Somebody needs to build a "battery condom" with big stacked diodes on
a big heat sink or some such solution. A voltage brick wall for system
charging inputs. MPPT PV controllers do NOT protect a inverter from
input overvoltage if all or part of the battery bank disappears! And
last year we saw a nice battery box fire and zorched inverters due to
similar -- dual 48v L16 strings, one cell failed and opened, other
string dumped everything into the bad one, smoke and flames. Parallel
fusing would have stopped that..but not stopped the loss of dual
stacked XW inverters from PV overvoltage.

Or am I missing something here?

Dan Fink,
Executive Director;
Otherpower
Buckville Energy Consulting
Buckville Publications LLC
NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
970.672.4342
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Galvanized vs. Aluminum WAS: 14 inch aluminum standoffs?

[Bill Loesch]

Hi Andrew,

Would anodizing the aluminum offer any benefit to you ?

One of the non-traditional solar mount suppliers offered just such a 
galvanized product and even sent out samples of their product. I put my 
sample outside to see what kind of performance it did offer. Probably 
something on the order of a year later, I called to inquire what 
profiles they offered. It was no longer a current product. I interpret 
this as another example of the marketing driven nature of business 
today. You may be aware that the label on Home Despot shelves tracks 
(among other things) how many of _that_ item was sold from that store 
location that month, when the total is zero for three months running the 
item is dropped. It is a profitable way to optimize shelf space, it is 
also one major reason why my _local_ supply house gets my business and 
HD is my supplier of last resort.


Enjoy the weekend,

Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
314 631 1094

On 15-Mar-13 3:52 PM, Solar Energy Solutions wrote:

Dear All,
While not participating much in the dialog  I greatly appreciate your 
time and knowledge on matters of the Sun.
My question is two fold.  Are folks using galvanized or hot dipped 
galvanized in any way, shape or form out there for their mounting 
systems?  I feel like I need to know this as we only use aluminum 
because our climate is so wet.  Yet we are in a situation where using 
galvanized might be the best and only options, although we am not 
seeing anything with galvanized that is readily out there either.
Fold Two:  Does anyone know of a source for 'standoffs' that are 
greater than 7"s but less than say 20"?

Sincerely,
*Andrew Koyaanisqatsi*
President
*Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.*
Since 1987,
Moving Portland and Beyond
to an Environmentally Sustainable Future.
*503-238-4502*
*http://www.solarenergyoregon.com/ *
*"Better one's House too little one day*
*than too big all the Year after."*


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