Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?

[Mac Lewis]

Here is a paper on AC coupling the magnum.
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/inverter%20pdf%20folder/MagnumACcoupling.pdf

The key is to connect the AC input terminals on the Magnum to the main
panel (or a panel closer to the utility feed) and then feed the utility
interactive inverter to a subpanel that is connected to the AC output
terminals on the Magnum.  Under normal operation, the Magnum passes the
power through and the utility interactive inverter is connected to the
grid.  If the grid goes down, the internal relays isolate the Magnum and
the critical load panel from the grid and the Magnum starts to make a sine
wave that the UI inverter will export power to.

You have to keep the critical load panel amperage below the pass through
rating on the internal relays on the Magnum, and the grid connected
inverter needs to have a lower output than the Magnum (I think by 10%).
 Also, I'm not sure if the diversion controller Magnum has been working on
is out yet or not.

I've never done this, but I am about to.  Any wrenches have experience
doing an AC coupled magnum?


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:37 PM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind <
ke...@whidbeysunwind.com> wrote:

> Ray,
> The battery-based inverter in an AC-coupled system should not be
> grid-interactive. The grid passes through the BB inverter to the
> grid-direct inverter(s). The BB inverter is there to create a stable
> grid-like signal for the grid-direct inverters when the grid is not
> present, and to manage the batteries. Thus, the pass-through AC capability
> of the BB inverters normally (there is a complicated work-around) must be
> able to handle all of the PV AC output, when loads are low.
> You probably are aware, but to make it clear in this thread: the system
> needs to have some method to protect the batteries from overcharging, as a
> result of the grid-direct inverter output when the grid is down and loads
> can't use all the solar energy available. With the Sunny Islands it's done
> by a signal that reduces output from the Sunny Boys without disconnecting
> them. With Outback and others it's done with a installer-designed relay
> that disconnects the grid-direct inverter when the battery voltage gets to
> a set point. We haven't done an AC-coupled system with the Radian, yet.
> Sounds like the remote controlled breaker is Outback's approved and listed
> way to do it. About time.
>
> -Kelly
>
> Kelly Keilwitz, P.E.
> Principal
> Whidbey Sun & Wind
> Renewable Energy Systems
> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
> WA Electrical Administrator
> ke...@whidbeysunwind.com
> PH & FAX: 360.678.7131
>
>
>
> On Jul 30, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Ray Walters  wrote:
>
> The Outback rep got me some good info, and I'm liking the Radian with the
> Remote controlled breaker to control the GT inverter when the grid is out.
>  I've heard of quite a few problems related to the Sunny Island frequency
> controlled system.
> My question is can off grid inverters like the Magnum be AC coupled?  I'm
> trying to get the price down, and still handle the 240 vac input from the
> GT inverter.
> I penciled out the Radian and I was topping $10k before installation.
>   This customer is hoping for a solution under $10k, and closer to $5k if
> possible.  I think an elegant lower cost solution for Grid tie with battery
> back up is in order.  A Radian Lite?
> For backup, it could even be mod sine, as it wouldn't be much worse than
> generator power or the average UPS setup.
>
>
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 7/30/2013 2:59 PM, Ray Walters wrote:
>
> Hi All;
>
> I know AC coupled systems have been covered before, but I have a new
> issue:  positive grounding.  A customer with an existing 8kw Sunpower
> system wants to add backup.   He was put off by the high cost the Sunny
> Island, so I was steering him towards a single Outback VFX coupled to just
> one of his 3 inverters.  The issue is how will the VFX work with positive
> grounded inverters.  I'm assuming that since the two inverters will only be
> connected by AC, that the positive vs negative grounding of their separate
> DC systems will not matter.  Any experience with this particular scenario:
> Sunpower system AC coupled to an Outback?
> Also, would I even need a GVFX, since the inverter would only be used
> during outages  (which might allow a generator to be used later as well)  A
> VFX should still AC couple to the GT inverter during an outage, right?
>
> Thanks as always,
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out partici

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?

[Mac Lewis]

Here is a paper on AC coupling the magnum.
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/inverter%20pdf%20folder/MagnumACcoupling.pdf

The key is to connect the AC input terminals on the Magnum to the main
panel (or a panel closer to the utility feed) and then feed the utility
interactive inverter to a subpanel that is connected to the AC output
terminals on the Magnum.  If the grid goes down, the internal relays
isolate the Magnum and the critical load panel from the grid and the Magnum
starts to make a sine wave.

You have to keep the critical load panel amperage below the pass through
rating on the internal relays, and the grid connected inverter needs to
have a lower output than the Magnum (I think by 10%).  Also, I'm not sure
if the diversion controller Magnum has been working on is out yet or not.

I've never done this, but I am about to.  Any wrenches have experience
doing an AC coupled magnum?


On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:37 PM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind <
ke...@whidbeysunwind.com> wrote:

> Ray,
> The battery-based inverter in an AC-coupled system should not be
> grid-interactive. The grid passes through the BB inverter to the
> grid-direct inverter(s). The BB inverter is there to create a stable
> grid-like signal for the grid-direct inverters when the grid is not
> present, and to manage the batteries. Thus, the pass-through AC capability
> of the BB inverters normally (there is a complicated work-around) must be
> able to handle all of the PV AC output, when loads are low.
> You probably are aware, but to make it clear in this thread: the system
> needs to have some method to protect the batteries from overcharging, as a
> result of the grid-direct inverter output when the grid is down and loads
> can't use all the solar energy available. With the Sunny Islands it's done
> by a signal that reduces output from the Sunny Boys without disconnecting
> them. With Outback and others it's done with a installer-designed relay
> that disconnects the grid-direct inverter when the battery voltage gets to
> a set point. We haven't done an AC-coupled system with the Radian, yet.
> Sounds like the remote controlled breaker is Outback's approved and listed
> way to do it. About time.
>
> -Kelly
>
> Kelly Keilwitz, P.E.
> Principal
> Whidbey Sun & Wind
> Renewable Energy Systems
> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
> WA Electrical Administrator
> ke...@whidbeysunwind.com
> PH & FAX: 360.678.7131
>
>
>
> On Jul 30, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Ray Walters  wrote:
>
> The Outback rep got me some good info, and I'm liking the Radian with the
> Remote controlled breaker to control the GT inverter when the grid is out.
>  I've heard of quite a few problems related to the Sunny Island frequency
> controlled system.
> My question is can off grid inverters like the Magnum be AC coupled?  I'm
> trying to get the price down, and still handle the 240 vac input from the
> GT inverter.
> I penciled out the Radian and I was topping $10k before installation.
>   This customer is hoping for a solution under $10k, and closer to $5k if
> possible.  I think an elegant lower cost solution for Grid tie with battery
> back up is in order.  A Radian Lite?
> For backup, it could even be mod sine, as it wouldn't be much worse than
> generator power or the average UPS setup.
>
>
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 7/30/2013 2:59 PM, Ray Walters wrote:
>
> Hi All;
>
> I know AC coupled systems have been covered before, but I have a new
> issue:  positive grounding.  A customer with an existing 8kw Sunpower
> system wants to add backup.   He was put off by the high cost the Sunny
> Island, so I was steering him towards a single Outback VFX coupled to just
> one of his 3 inverters.  The issue is how will the VFX work with positive
> grounded inverters.  I'm assuming that since the two inverters will only be
> connected by AC, that the positive vs negative grounding of their separate
> DC systems will not matter.  Any experience with this particular scenario:
> Sunpower system AC coupled to an Outback?
> Also, would I even need a GVFX, since the inverter would only be used
> during outages  (which might allow a generator to be used later as well)  A
> VFX should still AC couple to the GT inverter during an outage, right?
>
> Thanks as always,
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wren

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?

[Ray Walters]

Hi Kelly;

I agree the Radian system is appealing.  Its basically uses a circuit 
breaker that can be controlled like a relay as well, and just 
disconnects the GT inverter.

I'm going to offer a brief table of what I've found for my choices:

Brand
Control Method
Pros
Cons
SMA Sunny Island
Frequency shift to disconnect GT inverter
simplest wiring, Trusted GT industry player
most expensive, Freq shift can cause other problems
Outback Radian
Remote controlled Circuit breaker disconnects GT inverter
	fairly simple wiring,  relay and breaker are combined, better control 
of battery charging

still expensive, not available in smaller than 8 kw model
Magnum
	Diversion load controls for battery regulation  (soon to offer AC load 
control)

lower cost, proven technology, freq shift control offered as fail safe
most complicated wiring,  diversion loads not always reliable or 
available
Modsine Backup system
no AC coupling, just an old fashioned backup system
low cost
	complicated, needs customer interaction, not as efficient, GT PV not 
used, dedicated PV modules only charge backup system

Generator
No AC coupling, generator runs backup loads
lowest cost,  backup power available for as long as outage (no 
batteries)
best for week long outages that only occur every few years
	Not Renewable, fuel storage issues, doesn't switch fast enough to 
maintain computers, etc.




I'm still pricing out the options, but the SI and Radian seem a bit 
overkill for smaller systems.  Backup inverter power of just a couple 
thousand watts is all that most people need.  The Magnum is appealing,  
but I have quite a bit of experience with load diversion controls from  
wind and Hydro systems, and I really feel that its overly complicated 
for the less than 1% of the time that the grid is out.  Keeping the 
battery from being damaged is what's important, but maintaining full 3 
stage charging for a couple of days a year is not.  The batteries can be 
properly charged once the grid returns.  May be able to use Outback's 
ROCB with the Magnum?  That might get the best of both worlds.
If I was building the entire system to start, I'd just use a single 
Outback GVFX with its own PV array, and add GT inverters and array that 
were independent for the rest of the GT requirements.  This project 
however is retrofitting an existing GT system.
I've done many backup systems in the days before Grid Tie, and they work 
fairly well.  Basically either the modules are not used much of the 
time, or the customer has a few circuits that are on the backup system 
(off grid) all the time.   They operate it just like an off grid system, 
the only difference is that when its time to run a generator, they can 
just switch to the grid.  These are not for your average customer, but 
can work well for someone that likes to save money and tinker.
Another consideration is that if the battery bank is large enough 
relative to the array, over charging becomes less of an issue; 
especially with flooded cells that can stand a bit of over charging 
("equalization") every now and then.   However, I can see that the 
average small sealed battery bank hooked up to several KWs of PV could 
get ruined in a day.
I'll close with a quote from Joe Swartz in his 2012 Solar pro magazine 
article :


"AC coupling is still the Wild West of renewable energy applications"

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 7/30/2013 11:37 PM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind wrote:

Ray,
The battery-based inverter in an AC-coupled system should not be 
grid-interactive. The grid passes through the BB inverter to the 
grid-direct inverter(s). The BB inverter is there to create a stable 
grid-like signal for the grid-direct inverters when the grid is not 
present, and to manage the batteries. Thus, the pass-through AC 
capability of the BB inverters normally (there is a complicated 
work-around) must be able to handle all of the PV AC output, when 
loads are low.
You probably are aware, but to make it clear in this thread: the 
system needs to have some method to protect the batteries from 
overcharging, as a result of the grid-direct inverter output when the 
grid is down and loads can't use all the solar energy available. With 
the Sunny Islands it's done by a signal that reduces output from the 
Sunny Boys without disconnecting them. With Outback and others it's 
done with a installer-designed relay that disconnects the grid-direct 
inverter when the battery voltage gets to a set point. We haven't done 
an AC-coupled system with the Radian, yet. Sounds like the remote 
controlled breaker is Outback's approved and listed way to do it. 
About time.


-Kelly

Kelly Keilwitz, P.E.
Principal
Whidbey Sun & Wind
Renewable Energy Systems
NABCEP PV Installation Professional
WA Electrical Administr

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?

[Ryan]

  
  
Ray
You did not mention the XW, it frequency dithers so it is a pretty
straight forward setup. It also comes in 4, 4.5 and 6KW

Ryan


On 7/31/2013 2:04 PM, Ray Walters
  wrote:


  
  Hi Kelly;

I agree the Radian system is appealing.  Its basically uses a
circuit breaker that can be controlled like a relay as well, and
just disconnects the GT inverter.
I'm going to offer a brief table of what I've found for my
choices:


  

  Brand
  
  Control Method
  
  Pros 
  
  Cons
  


  SMA Sunny Island
  
  Frequency shift to disconnect GT inverter
  
  simplest wiring, Trusted GT industry
player
  
  most expensive, Freq shift can cause
other problems
  


  Outback Radian
  
  Remote controlled Circuit breaker
disconnects GT inverter
  
  fairly simple wiring,  relay and breaker
are combined, better control of battery charging
  
  still expensive, not available in smaller
than 8 kw model
  


  Magnum
  
  Diversion load controls for battery
regulation  (soon to offer AC load control)
  
  lower cost, proven technology, freq shift
control offered as fail safe
  
  most complicated wiring,  diversion loads
not always reliable or available
  


  Modsine Backup system
  
  no AC coupling, just an old fashioned
backup system
  
  low cost
  
  complicated, needs customer interaction,
not as efficient, GT PV not used, dedicated PV modules
only charge backup system
  


  Generator
  
  No AC coupling, generator runs backup
loads
  
  lowest cost,  backup power available for
as long as outage (no batteries)
best for week long outages that only occur every few
years
  
  Not Renewable, fuel storage issues,
doesn't switch fast enough to maintain computers, etc.

  



I'm still pricing out the options, but the SI and Radian seem a
bit overkill for smaller systems.  Backup inverter power of just
a couple thousand watts is all that most people need.  The
Magnum is appealing,  but I have quite a bit of experience with
load diversion controls from  wind and Hydro systems, and I
really feel that its overly complicated for the less than 1% of
the time that the grid is out.  Keeping the battery from being
damaged is what's important, but maintaining full 3 stage
charging for a couple of days a year is not.  The batteries can
be properly charged once the grid returns.  May be able to use
Outback's ROCB with the Magnum?  That might get the best of both
worlds.
If I was building the entire system to start, I'd just use a
single Outback GVFX with its own PV array, and add GT inverters
and array that were independent for the rest of the GT
requirements.  This project however is retrofitting an existing
GT system.  
I've done many backup systems in the days before Grid Tie, and
they work fairly well.  Basically either the modules are not
used much of the time, or the customer has a few circuits that
are on the backup system (off grid) all the time.   They operate
it just like an off grid system, the only difference is that
when its time to run a generator, they can just switch to the
grid.  These are not for your average customer, but can work
well for someone that likes to save money and tinker.
Another consideration is that if the battery bank is large
enough relative to the array, over charging becomes less of an
issue; especially with flooded cells that can stand a bit of
over charging ("equalization") every now and then.   However, I
can see that the average small sealed battery bank hooked up to
several KWs of PV could get ruined in a day.
I'll close with a quote from Joe Swartz in his 2012 Solar pro
magazine article : 

"AC coupling is stil

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?

[Corey Shalanski]

Mac,

We have installed about ten AC coupled Magnum systems over the past year.

Overcharge protection is accomplished by frequency shift, but Magnum
recommends an auxiliary form of battery management. The cheapest way to do
this is to program the relay driver on the Magnum advanced remote control
(ARC) to open/close a solid state relay at specified battery voltage
setpoints - similar to what Kelly mentioned. Unfortunately the "cheapest
way" sometimes comes back to haunt us in the form of unanticipated extra
costs. We had two customer callbacks indicating their inverter had
mysteriously shut down - site visit revealed a fried relay in each case..
so I would recommend at least investing in a good quality relay if you
choose this route.

One other thing we have learned is that not all grid interactive inverters
are compatible with the Magnum inverters. Specifically Power One Aurora
string inverters cannot seem to synchronize in off-grid mode - we have had
to switch out Auroras on two projects because of this. We have had no such
synchronization issues with SMA inverters so far.

--
Corey Shalanski
Joule Energy
New Orleans, LA



On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 Mac Lewis  wrote:
>
>
> Here is a paper on AC coupling the magnum.
>
> http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/inverter%20pdf%20folder/MagnumACcoupling.pdf
>
> The key is to connect the AC input terminals on the Magnum to the main
> panel (or a panel closer to the utility feed) and then feed the utility
> interactive inverter to a subpanel that is connected to the AC output
> terminals on the Magnum.  Under normal operation, the Magnum passes the
> power through and the utility interactive inverter is connected to the
> grid.  If the grid goes down, the internal relays isolate the Magnum and
> the critical load panel from the grid and the Magnum starts to make a sine
> wave that the UI inverter will export power to.
>
> You have to keep the critical load panel amperage below the pass through
> rating on the internal relays on the Magnum, and the grid connected
> inverter needs to have a lower output than the Magnum (I think by 10%).
>  Also, I'm not sure if the diversion controller Magnum has been working on
> is out yet or not.
>
> I've never done this, but I am about to.  Any wrenches have experience
> doing an AC coupled magnum?
>
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?

[b...@midnitesolar.com]

Right, Corey.

All critical loads and their wiring aside, the GT only inverter cannot 
put out more

current than the pass through relay in the BB inverter is rated for.
For example, you would not want to use a 100 kW PV-GT only inverter
on the AC output of a 4 kW BB inverter.

When grid is up, the GT only inverter is in parallel with the grid just like
it would be if it were not going through the pass through relay except that
the relay in the BB inverter AC current and voltage ratings must be payed
attention to.

boB


On 7/31/2013 11:24 AM, Corey Shalanski wrote:

Mac,

We have installed about ten AC coupled Magnum systems over the past year.

Overcharge protection is accomplished by frequency shift, but Magnum 
recommends an auxiliary form of battery management. The cheapest way 
to do this is to program the relay driver on the Magnum advanced 
remote control (ARC) to open/close a solid state relay at specified 
battery voltage setpoints - similar to what Kelly mentioned. 
Unfortunately the "cheapest way" sometimes comes back to haunt us in 
the form of unanticipated extra costs. We had two customer callbacks 
indicating their inverter had mysteriously shut down - site visit 
revealed a fried relay in each case.. so I would recommend at least 
investing in a good quality relay if you choose this route.


One other thing we have learned is that not all grid interactive 
inverters are compatible with the Magnum inverters. Specifically Power 
One Aurora string inverters cannot seem to synchronize in off-grid 
mode - we have had to switch out Auroras on two projects because of 
this. We have had no such synchronization issues with SMA inverters so 
far.


--
Corey Shalanski
Joule Energy
New Orleans, LA



On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 Mac Lewis > wrote:



Here is a paper on AC coupling the magnum.

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/inverter%20pdf%20folder/MagnumACcoupling.pdf

The key is to connect the AC input terminals on the Magnum to the main
panel (or a panel closer to the utility feed) and then feed the
utility
interactive inverter to a subpanel that is connected to the AC output
terminals on the Magnum.  Under normal operation, the Magnum
passes the
power through and the utility interactive inverter is connected to the
grid.  If the grid goes down, the internal relays isolate the
Magnum and
the critical load panel from the grid and the Magnum starts to
make a sine
wave that the UI inverter will export power to.

You have to keep the critical load panel amperage below the pass
through
rating on the internal relays on the Magnum, and the grid connected
inverter needs to have a lower output than the Magnum (I think by
10%).
 Also, I'm not sure if the diversion controller Magnum has been
working on
is out yet or not.

I've never done this, but I am about to.  Any wrenches have experience
doing an AC coupled magnum?




___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?

[Ray Walters]

Corey;

Would you mind sharing what relay didn't work, and which ones did, along 
with inverter output current?  Since the relays will be running for 
hours at inverter rated output,  my thinking would be to oversize the 
relay by at least a factor of three.  I might try Outback's relay/ 
breaker ( ROCB) if possible.


Thanks again for sharing,

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 7/31/2013 12:24 PM, Corey Shalanski wrote:

Mac,

We have installed about ten AC coupled Magnum systems over the past year.

Overcharge protection is accomplished by frequency shift, but Magnum 
recommends an auxiliary form of battery management. The cheapest way 
to do this is to program the relay driver on the Magnum advanced 
remote control (ARC) to open/close a solid state relay at specified 
battery voltage setpoints - similar to what Kelly mentioned. 
Unfortunately the "cheapest way" sometimes comes back to haunt us in 
the form of unanticipated extra costs. We had two customer callbacks 
indicating their inverter had mysteriously shut down - site visit 
revealed a fried relay in each case.. so I would recommend at least 
investing in a good quality relay if you choose this route.


One other thing we have learned is that not all grid interactive 
inverters are compatible with the Magnum inverters. Specifically Power 
One Aurora string inverters cannot seem to synchronize in off-grid 
mode - we have had to switch out Auroras on two projects because of 
this. We have had no such synchronization issues with SMA inverters so 
far.


--
Corey Shalanski
Joule Energy
New Orleans, LA



On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 Mac Lewis > wrote:



Here is a paper on AC coupling the magnum.

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/inverter%20pdf%20folder/MagnumACcoupling.pdf

The key is to connect the AC input terminals on the Magnum to the main
panel (or a panel closer to the utility feed) and then feed the
utility
interactive inverter to a subpanel that is connected to the AC output
terminals on the Magnum.  Under normal operation, the Magnum
passes the
power through and the utility interactive inverter is connected to the
grid.  If the grid goes down, the internal relays isolate the
Magnum and
the critical load panel from the grid and the Magnum starts to
make a sine
wave that the UI inverter will export power to.

You have to keep the critical load panel amperage below the pass
through
rating on the internal relays on the Magnum, and the grid connected
inverter needs to have a lower output than the Magnum (I think by
10%).
 Also, I'm not sure if the diversion controller Magnum has been
working on
is out yet or not.

I've never done this, but I am about to.  Any wrenches have experience
doing an AC coupled magnum?



___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org



___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Unknown rail.

[Kirpal Khalsa]

snapnrack

Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Renewable Energy Systems
www.oregonsolarworks.com
541-218-0201 m
541-592-3958 o


On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 1:21 PM, All Solar  wrote:

> Can anyone please identify the rail on the photo?
>
> Regards
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> AllSolar
>
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Unknown rail.

[Ray Walters]

Looks like SnapNRack.  Get some new bolt and clamp sets before you start 
loosening anything.  The SS bolts can spall, and the last one we worked 
on, we had to replace 1/3 of the hardware.  We used anti-seize thread 
lubricant and a torque wrench on reinstallation.  SnapN Rack seems 
pretty decent overall, just hard to remove if over torqued.


R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 7/31/2013 2:21 PM, All Solar wrote:

Can anyone please identify the rail on the photo?

Regards
Jeremy Rodriguez
AllSolar



Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!


___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org



___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Unknown rail.

[Nick Soleil]

Hi Jeremie,

That looks like SnapNRack.


On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 1:21 PM, All Solar  wrote:

> Can anyone please identify the rail on the photo?
>
> Regards
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> AllSolar
>
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>


-- 

Cordially,

*Nick Soleil*

*Field Applications Engineer
*

*Enphase Energy*

Mobile: (707) 321-2937


**

*Enphase Commercial Solar.*
*Limitless.*

*
*

1420 North McDowell

Petaluma, CA 94954

www.enphase.com 

P: (707) 763-4784 x7267

F: (707) 763-0784

E: nsol...@enphaseenergy.com

[image: nabcep logo] Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300

“Don’t get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It’s just that I prefer fusion
to fission. And it just so happens that there’s an enormous fusion reactor
safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could
ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it’s wireless! .”

- William McDonough



This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may 
contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended 
recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. 
If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email 
and destroy all copies of the original message. 

<>___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?

[Steve Higgins]

The deltrol model 375s work well. Send me a request offline and I can send you 
a spec sheet.


Steve Higgins
Technical Services Manager
M: +1.206.790.5840
F: +1.902.597.8447
Surrette Battery Company
Exclusive manufacturer of
[cid:rolls3c17ab]

From: Ray Walters
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 12:55 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Reply To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?


Corey;

Would you mind sharing what relay didn't work, and which ones did, along with 
inverter output current?  Since the relays will be running for hours at 
inverter rated output,  my thinking would be to oversize the relay by at least 
a factor of three.  I might try Outback's relay/ breaker ( ROCB) if possible.

Thanks again for sharing,

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 7/31/2013 12:24 PM, Corey Shalanski wrote:
Mac,

We have installed about ten AC coupled Magnum systems over the past year.

Overcharge protection is accomplished by frequency shift, but Magnum recommends 
an auxiliary form of battery management. The cheapest way to do this is to 
program the relay driver on the Magnum advanced remote control (ARC) to 
open/close a solid state relay at specified battery voltage setpoints - similar 
to what Kelly mentioned. Unfortunately the "cheapest way" sometimes comes back 
to haunt us in the form of unanticipated extra costs. We had two customer 
callbacks indicating their inverter had mysteriously shut down - site visit 
revealed a fried relay in each case.. so I would recommend at least investing 
in a good quality relay if you choose this route.

One other thing we have learned is that not all grid interactive inverters are 
compatible with the Magnum inverters. Specifically Power One Aurora string 
inverters cannot seem to synchronize in off-grid mode - we have had to switch 
out Auroras on two projects because of this. We have had no such 
synchronization issues with SMA inverters so far.

--
Corey Shalanski
Joule Energy
New Orleans, LA



On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 Mac Lewis 
mailto:maclew...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Here is a paper on AC coupling the magnum.
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/inverter%20pdf%20folder/MagnumACcoupling.pdf

The key is to connect the AC input terminals on the Magnum to the main
panel (or a panel closer to the utility feed) and then feed the utility
interactive inverter to a subpanel that is connected to the AC output
terminals on the Magnum.  Under normal operation, the Magnum passes the
power through and the utility interactive inverter is connected to the
grid.  If the grid goes down, the internal relays isolate the Magnum and
the critical load panel from the grid and the Magnum starts to make a sine
wave that the UI inverter will export power to.

You have to keep the critical load panel amperage below the pass through
rating on the internal relays on the Magnum, and the grid connected
inverter needs to have a lower output than the Magnum (I think by 10%).
 Also, I'm not sure if the diversion controller Magnum has been working on
is out yet or not.

I've never done this, but I am about to.  Any wrenches have experience
doing an AC coupled magnum?



___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: 
RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org






This email and its attachments have been scanned by iConnection E-Mail Firewall 
for viruses, spam, and malicious content.
The information transmitted in this email is intended only for the entity or 
person to which it is addressed and may contain confidential/privileged 
material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete 
the material from any computer. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, or 
other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended 
recipient is strictly prohibited. %^^%
<>___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] Source for Filon

[All Solar, Inc.]

Anyone know of a source for Filon, our supplier is out of business.  Trying to 
re-glaze a panel.


All Solar, Inc.
Jeremy and Amy Rodriguez
1463 M St
Penrose, CO 81240
www.asolarelectric.com
Phone 719-372-3808
Fax 719-372-3804
Email allso...@scswifi.net
Email allso...@live.com___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?

[jay peltz]

Hi Corey,

Did you mount the SS relays to a good heat sink with heat compound?
They are quite sensitive to heat damage and also like a lot things 
optimistically rated.
I use a 2X oversize ratio for SS relays if they are used very much at all or 
for longer periods of time.

And I think  you are correct to install a back up to the frequency shift that 
may or may not work.


jay

peltz power


On Jul 31, 2013, at 11:24 AM, Corey Shalanski wrote:

> Mac,
> 
> We have installed about ten AC coupled Magnum systems over the past year.
> 
> Overcharge protection is accomplished by frequency shift, but Magnum 
> recommends an auxiliary form of battery management. The cheapest way to do 
> this is to program the relay driver on the Magnum advanced remote control 
> (ARC) to open/close a solid state relay at specified battery voltage 
> setpoints - similar to what Kelly mentioned. Unfortunately the "cheapest way" 
> sometimes comes back to haunt us in the form of unanticipated extra costs. We 
> had two customer callbacks indicating their inverter had mysteriously shut 
> down - site visit revealed a fried relay in each case.. so I would recommend 
> at least investing in a good quality relay if you choose this route.
> 
> One other thing we have learned is that not all grid interactive inverters 
> are compatible with the Magnum inverters. Specifically Power One Aurora 
> string inverters cannot seem to synchronize in off-grid mode - we have had to 
> switch out Auroras on two projects because of this. We have had no such 
> synchronization issues with SMA inverters so far.
> 
> --
> Corey Shalanski
> Joule Energy
> New Orleans, LA
> 
> 

___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Unknown rail.

[Chris Mason]

SnapNRack

Chris Mason
Comet Systems
Anguilla (264) 235-5670
St. Kitts  (869) 662-5670
skype netconcepts

NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
Renewable Energy Systems professional
Generac Generators Factory technician
On Jul 31, 2013 4:21 PM, "All Solar"  wrote:

> Can anyone please identify the rail on the photo?
>
> Regards
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> AllSolar
>
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Unknown rail.

[Benn At DayStarSolar]

I'm not debating that it is snapnrack, but it does look very similar to 
Kinetic, which we are using a lot of these days. 

benn
Sent from a 'smart' phone, with touch screen keys. Please excuse shortcuts and 
typos. 

On 2013-07-31, at 2:21 PM, All Solar  wrote:

> Can anyone please identify the rail on the photo?
> 
> Regards
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> AllSolar
> 
> 
> 
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
> 
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> 
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> 
> List-Archive: 
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> 
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> 
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
> 
___
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org