Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248VFXsystem

[frenergy]

sorry, in my $.02 worth below I forgot to mention, none of my LEDs are on 
dimmers.  Todd, I have never noticed an issue when using the 2 meter and the 
LEDs are on.  I'll have to keep a keener ear next time.

Bill

  - Original Message - 
  From: toddc...@finestplanet.com 
  To: RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 8:10 PM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 
7248VFXsystem


  the only ones i have on a dimmer are in the bathroom and they flicker. being 
we are grid tied (GVFX-3648) and the grid is up, i suspect this is because of a 
bad dimmer/lamp combo.



  anyone find the RFI from led lamps a problem? i have to shut all mine off 
when using the 2 meter ham rig.



  todd









  On Monday, January 6, 2014 7:56pm, "frenergy"  said:



  Another $.02
  I have 2, FX3524's and 35 KWhrs of HUP's behind themjust cleaned and 
torqued the terminals/cables.  I run 6-7 brands, sizes, styles of  LEDS and 
some of them of them flicker while, in my case, the convection oven is running. 
 It quickly pulses (~10-20 times/second) to maintain a temperature.  Fridge is 
DC. The less expensive off-brand LEDs flicker, the big name brands don't.
  Bill



  Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Deka AGMs

[Howie Michaelson]

Kevin,

I would be interested in the "factory testing process and inspection
sheets" as well.

Thanks,
Howie
-- 
Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Catamount Solar, LLC
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar Electric & Hot Water Incentive Partner
http://www.CatamountSolar.com
802-272-0004


On Mon, January 6, 2014 6:17 pm, Kevin Pegg wrote:
> Hi August,
>
> I have many of these batteries in service. They are generally very good
> batteries but they must be charged properly. Which goes for any battery,
> really, but these are not as easily recovered from under-charge. At 12
> years old I would expect they are approaching end of service, so good to
> let the client plan for that.
>
> The most common issue we find is a cell or two that is not taking full
> charge. To remedy that a 2V / 50A charger is connected to that cell to
> bring it up in balance with rest of the bank.
>
> If you want I can email you the factory testing process and inspection
> sheets directly.
>
> Kevin Pegg
> EA Energy Alternatives Ltd.
> 37471 Hwy 16 E
> Telkwa, BC  V0J 2X2
> 250-846-9888
> Http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca 
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of August
> Goers
> Sent: January 6, 2014 1:00 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Deka AGMs
>
>
>
> All Battery Wrenches,
>
>
>
> I’m servicing an existing battery backup system with some big Deka AGM
> battery banks. I believe they are about 12 years old. Does anyone have any
> general comments about Deka batteries? Any suggestions about how I would
> test these would be greatly appreciated. Here’s a link to the product:
>
>
>
> http://www.dekabatteries.com/default.aspx?pageid=366
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
>
>
> August
>
>
>
> Luminalt
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Deka AGMs

[Howie Michaelson]

Kevin,
What 2 volt battery charger do you use for either SLA and/or flooded deep
cycle batteries?  What are the specs on it?  Availability?  We have tried
to source a 2 volt charger in the past and the only ones we found were
cost prohibitive.  Does anyone have any good leads for such an item?

Thanks,
Howie
-- 
Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Catamount Solar, LLC
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar Electric & Hot Water Incentive Partner
http://www.CatamountSolar.com
802-272-0004


On Mon, January 6, 2014 6:17 pm, Kevin Pegg wrote:
> Hi August,
>
> I have many of these batteries in service. They are generally very good
> batteries but they must be charged properly. Which goes for any battery,
> really, but these are not as easily recovered from under-charge. At 12
> years old I would expect they are approaching end of service, so good to
> let the client plan for that.
>
> The most common issue we find is a cell or two that is not taking full
> charge. To remedy that a 2V / 50A charger is connected to that cell to
> bring it up in balance with rest of the bank.
>
> If you want I can email you the factory testing process and inspection
> sheets directly.
>
> Kevin Pegg
> EA Energy Alternatives Ltd.
> 37471 Hwy 16 E
> Telkwa, BC  V0J 2X2
> 250-846-9888
> Http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca 
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of August
> Goers
> Sent: January 6, 2014 1:00 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Deka AGMs
>
>
>
> All Battery Wrenches,
>
>
>
> I’m servicing an existing battery backup system with some big Deka AGM
> battery banks. I believe they are about 12 years old. Does anyone have any
> general comments about Deka batteries? Any suggestions about how I would
> test these would be greatly appreciated. Here’s a link to the product:
>
>
>
> http://www.dekabatteries.com/default.aspx?pageid=366
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
>
>
> August
>
>
>
> Luminalt
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248VFX system

[toddcory]

the only ones i have on a dimmer are in the bathroom and they flicker. being we 
are grid tied (GVFX-3648) and the grid is up, i suspect this is because of a 
bad dimmer/lamp combo.
 
anyone find the RFI from led lamps a problem? i have to shut all mine off when 
using the 2 meter ham rig.
 
todd
 
 
 
 
On Monday, January 6, 2014 7:56pm, "frenergy"  said:



Another $.02

I have 2, FX3524's and 35 KWhrs of  HUP's behind themjust cleaned and 
torqued the terminals/cables.  I  run 6-7 brands, sizes, styles of  LEDS and 
some of them of them  flicker while, in my case, the convection oven is 
running.  It quickly  pulses (~10-20 times/second) to maintain a temperature.  
Fridge is DC.  The less expensive off-brand LEDs flicker, the big name brands 
don't.

Bill



Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.
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[RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248VFX system

[frenergy]

Another $.02 

I have 2, FX3524's and 35 KWhrs of HUP's behind themjust cleaned 
and torqued the terminals/cables.  I run 6-7 brands, sizes, styles of  LEDS and 
some of them of them flicker while, in my case, the convection oven is running. 
 It quickly pulses (~10-20 times/second) to maintain a temperature.  Fridge is 
DC. The less expensive off-brand LEDs flicker, the big name brands don't.

Bill

- Original Message - 
  From: Jerry Shafer 
  To: RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 6:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248VFX 
system


  I have had this same thing happen with a off grid application using SMA SI's 
it rooted back to programming one inverter was going to sleep and under some 
loads the lights would flicker and they were over the dinning room table and 
suspended from a 16 foot ceiling so it lit up the entire room. I know this has 
a different inverter  system but I would look close at the programming LED's 
use such a low load and the drivers take a second to activate. Did you connect 
a DVOM and watch the volts better yet a scope

  Jerry   




  On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Exeltech  wrote:

There may also be a technical aspect of the dimmer that's adding to the 
flicker, depending on the type of dimmer(s) in use.

Some dimmers use a device called a "silicon-controlled rectifier" .. or 
"SCR".  They allow only half of the sine wave to pass.  Half-wave power wasn't 
very noticeable when used with incandescent lamps due to the continued "glow" 
persistence of the filament.  However, LEDs react [essentially] immediately, 
and the flicker is very apparent.  Final thought .. compressors use the most 
energy during the compression stroke.  Actual current draw varies with each 
stroke of the piston.  Check not only the battery connections, but look to see 
if the loads are on the same circuits as the lamps.  If in fact the inverter AC 
output voltage IS dropping due to DC-side issues .. and the large AC loads 
happen to share the same circuit as the lamps .. this would make any flicker 
that much worse.


Dan




On Mon, 1/6/14, b...@midnitesolar.com  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248 
VFX system

 To: "RE-wrenches" 
 Date: Monday, January 6, 2014, 6:25 PM



Only during Big load surges ?

Could it be current limiting and because LEDs are so fast on and off, you 
notice the drop in momentary voltage ?

Any inverter might do that under the right conditions.

Just a thought.

boB




On 1/6/2014 3:45 PM, Dan Fink wrote:
> I consider LED flicker as very common when a fridge starts up, but NOT 
while it's running. Both dimmed and not dimmed LEDs. I see flicker more often 
on systems with smaller (or aging) battery systems of course. The only 
particular appliance I have found causing constant flicker here and with my 
clients is a particular brand of laser printer. And also a subwoofer on the 
stereo (light show!)a different subwoofer brand solved that problem. Go 
figure, I have no idea why. Most of my inverters are by Magnum. I have not 
found much difference with LED brands or dimmer brands.
> I can see how this could be a problem for your client, Kirpal. None of 
mine seem to mind a startup flicker, but if its constant that's a big problem. 
I wish I had an answer for you, but I hope that providing this information 
helps others. CFLs do not give me the same problem, but of course have their 
own other problems.
>
> Dan Fink,
> Executive Director;
> Otherpower
> Buckville Energy Consulting
> Buckville Publications LLC
> NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
> 970.672.4342
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Jay Peltz  wrote:
>
> Dimmers are super specific to light brand/type.  You'll have to do 
the research
>
> For now swapping to regular switches should work
>
> Jay
>

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248 VFX system

[Jerry Shafer]

I have had this same thing happen with a off grid application using SMA
SI's it rooted back to programming one inverter was going to sleep and
under some loads the lights would flicker and they were over the dinning
room table and suspended from a 16 foot ceiling so it lit up the entire
room. I know this has a different inverter  system but I would look close
at the programming LED's use such a low load and the drivers take a second
to activate. Did you connect a DVOM and watch the volts better yet a scope
Jerry


On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Exeltech  wrote:

> There may also be a technical aspect of the dimmer that's adding to the
> flicker, depending on the type of dimmer(s) in use.
>
> Some dimmers use a device called a "silicon-controlled rectifier" .. or
> "SCR".  They allow only half of the sine wave to pass.  Half-wave power
> wasn't very noticeable when used with incandescent lamps due to the
> continued "glow" persistence of the filament.  However, LEDs react
> [essentially] immediately, and the flicker is very apparent.  Final thought
> .. compressors use the most energy during the compression stroke.  Actual
> current draw varies with each stroke of the piston.  Check not only the
> battery connections, but look to see if the loads are on the same circuits
> as the lamps.  If in fact the inverter AC output voltage IS dropping due to
> DC-side issues .. and the large AC loads happen to share the same circuit
> as the lamps .. this would make any flicker that much worse.
>
>
> Dan
>
>
> 
> On Mon, 1/6/14, b...@midnitesolar.com  wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248
> VFX system
>  To: "RE-wrenches" 
>  Date: Monday, January 6, 2014, 6:25 PM
>
>
> Only during Big load surges ?
>
> Could it be current limiting and because LEDs are so fast on and off, you
> notice the drop in momentary voltage ?
>
> Any inverter might do that under the right conditions.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> boB
>
>
>
>
> On 1/6/2014 3:45 PM, Dan Fink wrote:
> > I consider LED flicker as very common when a fridge starts up, but NOT
> while it's running. Both dimmed and not dimmed LEDs. I see flicker more
> often on systems with smaller (or aging) battery systems of course. The
> only particular appliance I have found causing constant flicker here and
> with my clients is a particular brand of laser printer. And also a
> subwoofer on the stereo (light show!)a different subwoofer brand solved
> that problem. Go figure, I have no idea why. Most of my inverters are by
> Magnum. I have not found much difference with LED brands or dimmer brands.
> > I can see how this could be a problem for your client, Kirpal. None of
> mine seem to mind a startup flicker, but if its constant that's a big
> problem. I wish I had an answer for you, but I hope that providing this
> information helps others. CFLs do not give me the same problem, but of
> course have their own other problems.
> >
> > Dan Fink,
> > Executive Director;
> > Otherpower
> > Buckville Energy Consulting
> > Buckville Publications LLC
> > NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
> > 970.672.4342
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Jay Peltz  wrote:
> >
> > Dimmers are super specific to light brand/type.  You'll have to do
> the research
> >
> > For now swapping to regular switches should work
> >
> > Jay
> >
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248 VFX system

[Exeltech]

There may also be a technical aspect of the dimmer that's adding to the 
flicker, depending on the type of dimmer(s) in use.

Some dimmers use a device called a "silicon-controlled rectifier" .. or "SCR".  
They allow only half of the sine wave to pass.  Half-wave power wasn't very 
noticeable when used with incandescent lamps due to the continued "glow" 
persistence of the filament.  However, LEDs react [essentially] immediately, 
and the flicker is very apparent.  Final thought .. compressors use the most 
energy during the compression stroke.  Actual current draw varies with each 
stroke of the piston.  Check not only the battery connections, but look to see 
if the loads are on the same circuits as the lamps.  If in fact the inverter AC 
output voltage IS dropping due to DC-side issues .. and the large AC loads 
happen to share the same circuit as the lamps .. this would make any flicker 
that much worse.


Dan



On Mon, 1/6/14, b...@midnitesolar.com  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248 VFX 
system
 To: "RE-wrenches" 
 Date: Monday, January 6, 2014, 6:25 PM
 
 
Only during Big load surges ?

Could it be current limiting and because LEDs are so fast on and off, you 
notice the drop in momentary voltage ?

Any inverter might do that under the right conditions.

Just a thought.

boB




On 1/6/2014 3:45 PM, Dan Fink wrote:
> I consider LED flicker as very common when a fridge starts up, but NOT while 
> it's running. Both dimmed and not dimmed LEDs. I see flicker more often on 
> systems with smaller (or aging) battery systems of course. The only 
> particular appliance I have found causing constant flicker here and with my 
> clients is a particular brand of laser printer. And also a subwoofer on the 
> stereo (light show!)a different subwoofer brand solved that problem. Go 
> figure, I have no idea why. Most of my inverters are by Magnum. I have not 
> found much difference with LED brands or dimmer brands.
> I can see how this could be a problem for your client, Kirpal. None of mine 
> seem to mind a startup flicker, but if its constant that's a big problem. I 
> wish I had an answer for you, but I hope that providing this information 
> helps others. CFLs do not give me the same problem, but of course have their 
> own other problems.
>
> Dan Fink,
> Executive Director;
> Otherpower
> Buckville Energy Consulting
> Buckville Publications LLC
> NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
> 970.672.4342
>
>  
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Jay Peltz  wrote:
>
> Dimmers are super specific to light brand/type.  You'll have to do the 
> research
>
> For now swapping to regular switches should work
>
> Jay
>

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248 VFX system

[Kirpal Khalsa]

Thanks folks for the ideas!  So far I have advised a few things.I will
report back any successes..

Here is the advice I have shared.
1. Get some different makes and models of LED light bulbs to try out
2. Get some different dimmer switches to try out
3. Try some lights on non dimmer type switches.
4. Switch the fridge to the other leg of their 120\240 V service.
5. Check battery cables for loose connections.
6. Get a new fridge..(they are hoping to avoid this and it is not the only
load causing the problem)

This is an odd problem.The battery bank and inverter are more than
adequately sized for the loadsThe fridge only draws 7 A when
runningand the problem is not just under start up it is present the
entire time it is running.The same is true for any other motor type
loads that are runningbig or small.long term the fridge is the most
problematic load because of the regular and unpredictable run times
As LED's become more wide spread and available and cheaper I am hoping not
to run into this problem more often.They can be a huge attribute to an
energy efficient off grid home
Thanks for the advice...keep it coming
Thank you!
On Jan 6, 2014 4:33 PM, "Dan Fink"  wrote:

> I think it's for sure how fast LEDs react boB. That's why I don't see it
> with other lighting technologies like CFL etc.
> But I don't understand  a fridge that causes constant flicker when it is
> on. Too bad it's not easy to just try another fridge! Trying another light
> is much easier ;-)
>
> Dan Fink,
> Executive Director;
> Otherpower
> Buckville Energy Consulting
> Buckville Publications LLC
> NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
> 970.672.4342
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 5:25 PM, b...@midnitesolar.com  > wrote:
>
>>
>> Only during Big load surges ?
>>
>> Could it be current limiting and because LEDs are so fast on and off, you
>> notice the drop in momentary voltage ?
>>
>> Any inverter might do that under the right conditions.
>>
>> Just a thought.
>>
>> boB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/6/2014 3:45 PM, Dan Fink wrote:
>>
>> I consider LED flicker as very common when a fridge starts up, but NOT
>> while it's running. Both dimmed and not dimmed LEDs. I see flicker more
>> often on systems with smaller (or aging) battery systems of course. The
>> only particular appliance I have found causing constant flicker here and
>> with my clients is a particular brand of laser printer. And also a
>> subwoofer on the stereo (light show!)a different subwoofer brand solved
>> that problem. Go figure, I have no idea why. Most of my inverters are by
>> Magnum. I have not found much difference with LED brands or dimmer brands.
>> I can see how this could be a problem for your client, Kirpal. None of
>> mine seem to mind a startup flicker, but if its constant that's a big
>> problem. I wish I had an answer for you, but I hope that providing this
>> information helps others. CFLs do not give me the same problem, but of
>> course have their own other problems.
>>
>> Dan Fink,
>> Executive Director;
>> Otherpower
>> Buckville Energy Consulting
>> Buckville Publications LLC
>> NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
>> 970.672.4342
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Jay Peltz  wrote:
>>
>>> Dimmers are super specific to light brand/type.  You'll have to do the
>>> research
>>>
>>> For now swapping to regular switches should work
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>>
>>> >
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248 VFX system

[Dan Fink]

I think it's for sure how fast LEDs react boB. That's why I don't see it
with other lighting technologies like CFL etc.
But I don't understand  a fridge that causes constant flicker when it is
on. Too bad it's not easy to just try another fridge! Trying another light
is much easier ;-)

Dan Fink,
Executive Director;
Otherpower
Buckville Energy Consulting
Buckville Publications LLC
NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
970.672.4342




On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 5:25 PM, b...@midnitesolar.com
wrote:

>
> Only during Big load surges ?
>
> Could it be current limiting and because LEDs are so fast on and off, you
> notice the drop in momentary voltage ?
>
> Any inverter might do that under the right conditions.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> boB
>
>
>
>
>
> On 1/6/2014 3:45 PM, Dan Fink wrote:
>
> I consider LED flicker as very common when a fridge starts up, but NOT
> while it's running. Both dimmed and not dimmed LEDs. I see flicker more
> often on systems with smaller (or aging) battery systems of course. The
> only particular appliance I have found causing constant flicker here and
> with my clients is a particular brand of laser printer. And also a
> subwoofer on the stereo (light show!)a different subwoofer brand solved
> that problem. Go figure, I have no idea why. Most of my inverters are by
> Magnum. I have not found much difference with LED brands or dimmer brands.
> I can see how this could be a problem for your client, Kirpal. None of
> mine seem to mind a startup flicker, but if its constant that's a big
> problem. I wish I had an answer for you, but I hope that providing this
> information helps others. CFLs do not give me the same problem, but of
> course have their own other problems.
>
> Dan Fink,
> Executive Director;
> Otherpower
> Buckville Energy Consulting
> Buckville Publications LLC
> NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
> 970.672.4342
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Jay Peltz  wrote:
>
>> Dimmers are super specific to light brand/type.  You'll have to do the
>> research
>>
>> For now swapping to regular switches should work
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>
>> >
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248 VFX system

[b...@midnitesolar.com]

Only during Big load surges ?

Could it be current limiting and because LEDs are so fast on and off, 
you notice the drop in momentary voltage ?


Any inverter might do that under the right conditions.

Just a thought.

boB




On 1/6/2014 3:45 PM, Dan Fink wrote:
I consider LED flicker as very common when a fridge starts up, but NOT 
while it's running. Both dimmed and not dimmed LEDs. I see flicker 
more often on systems with smaller (or aging) battery systems of 
course. The only particular appliance I have found causing constant 
flicker here and with my clients is a particular brand of laser 
printer. And also a subwoofer on the stereo (light show!)a 
different subwoofer brand solved that problem. Go figure, I have no 
idea why. Most of my inverters are by Magnum. I have not found much 
difference with LED brands or dimmer brands.
I can see how this could be a problem for your client, Kirpal. None of 
mine seem to mind a startup flicker, but if its constant that's a big 
problem. I wish I had an answer for you, but I hope that providing 
this information helps others. CFLs do not give me the same problem, 
but of course have their own other problems.


Dan Fink,
Executive Director;
Otherpower
Buckville Energy Consulting
Buckville Publications LLC
NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
970.672.4342



On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Jay Peltz > wrote:


Dimmers are super specific to light brand/type.  You'll have to do
the research

For now swapping to regular switches should work

Jay


>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248 VFX system

[Dan Fink]

I consider LED flicker as very common when a fridge starts up, but NOT
while it's running. Both dimmed and not dimmed LEDs. I see flicker more
often on systems with smaller (or aging) battery systems of course. The
only particular appliance I have found causing constant flicker here and
with my clients is a particular brand of laser printer. And also a
subwoofer on the stereo (light show!)a different subwoofer brand solved
that problem. Go figure, I have no idea why. Most of my inverters are by
Magnum. I have not found much difference with LED brands or dimmer brands.
I can see how this could be a problem for your client, Kirpal. None of mine
seem to mind a startup flicker, but if its constant that's a big problem. I
wish I had an answer for you, but I hope that providing this information
helps others. CFLs do not give me the same problem, but of course have
their own other problems.

Dan Fink,
Executive Director;
Otherpower
Buckville Energy Consulting
Buckville Publications LLC
NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
970.672.4342




On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Jay Peltz  wrote:

> Dimmers are super specific to light brand/type.  You'll have to do the
> research
>
> For now swapping to regular switches should work
>
> Jay
>
>
> >
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Re: [RE-wrenches] IBE Battery Flags

[Allan Sindelar]

  
  
William,
  We have used numerous sets of IBEs over the years; I have them in
  my home. Well made.
  
  There's no standard. Every aspect of cabling is up to you. We have
  ordered all flag and one flag/one terminal, and even 4V cases with
  one welded series terminal for each. You have to specify which way
  you want them, as all is custom. All cables is a bit of a hassle,
  as each series connection has to be connected and then insulated
  well.
  
  Drill out the holes to 5/16". 1/4" is too small. 
  
  Allan
  
  






  

  

  
  
  
Allan Sindelar
  al...@positiveenergysolar.com
  NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder, Positive Energy, Inc.
A
Certified B CorporationTM
3209
Richards Lane
  Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell
www.positiveenergysolar.com
 
  

  On 1/6/2014 3:20 PM, William Miller wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
Friends:
 
We
replaced a set of 24 IBE batteries recently.  The original
set had all batteries with captive cables (and one flag)
except one, which had two flags.  This made it easy to
connect the leads from the BOS:  there was a flag on the
positive and negative ends.  
 
The
new set had all batteries with cables.  Is there a standard
for this?
 
Also,
the flags had all 5/16” holes but when we untapped the lugs
on the cables, the holes were ¼”.  We are very used to using
5/16” SS bolts and that is what we had in stock.  I am not
comfortable using ¼” battery bolts.  Is there a standard for
battery bolts?
 
Thanks
in advance.
 
William
 
 
 

17395
Oak Rd. Atascadero, CA 93422
www.millersolar.com
805-438-5600
voice
 
  
  
  
  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] IBE Battery Flags

[Ray Walters]

  
  
Hi William;
  
  I haven't seen any standard really.  I noticed that HUPs switched
  from 5/16" hardware to 1/4".  I'm old school like you, and prefer
  5/16" hardware, however I think if you look at the lbs of
  compression that the 1/4" bolt can provide, it's still a fine
  connection.  The bolt shouldn't be carrying much current; the
  mating surfaces of the lags and flag terminals should.
  In your case, I'd just drill out the holes to 5/16".  I have a
  small receiver mounted vice that works well for those sort of
  "field adjustments". 
  R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
03 505-8760
  On 1/6/2014 3:20 PM, William Miller wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
Friends:
 
We
replaced a set of 24 IBE batteries recently.  The original
set had all batteries with captive cables (and one flag)
except one, which had two flags.  This made it easy to
connect the leads from the BOS:  there was a flag on the
positive and negative ends.  
 
The
new set had all batteries with cables.  Is there a standard
for this?
 
Also,
the flags had all 5/16” holes but when we untapped the lugs
on the cables, the holes were ¼”.  We are very used to using
5/16” SS bolts and that is what we had in stock.  I am not
comfortable using ¼” battery bolts.  Is there a standard for
battery bolts?
 
Thanks
in advance.
 
William
 
 
 

17395
Oak Rd. Atascadero, CA 93422
www.millersolar.com
805-438-5600
voice
 
  
  
  
  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Deka AGMs

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi August, 
 
I have many of these batteries in service. They are generally very good 
batteries but they must be charged properly. Which goes for any battery, 
really, but these are not as easily recovered from under-charge. At 12 years 
old I would expect they are approaching end of service, so good to let the 
client plan for that. 
 
The most common issue we find is a cell or two that is not taking full charge. 
To remedy that a 2V / 50A charger is connected to that cell to bring it up in 
balance with rest of the bank. 
 
If you want I can email you the factory testing process and inspection sheets 
directly. 
 
Kevin Pegg 
EA Energy Alternatives Ltd. 
37471 Hwy 16 E 
Telkwa, BC  V0J 2X2 
250-846-9888 
Http://www.EnergyAlternatives.ca   
 
 

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of August Goers
Sent: January 6, 2014 1:00 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Deka AGMs



All Battery Wrenches,

 

I’m servicing an existing battery backup system with some big Deka AGM battery 
banks. I believe they are about 12 years old. Does anyone have any general 
comments about Deka batteries? Any suggestions about how I would test these 
would be greatly appreciated. Here’s a link to the product:

 

http://www.dekabatteries.com/default.aspx?pageid=366

 

Thanks,

 

 

August

 

Luminalt

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[RE-wrenches] IBE Battery Flags

[William Miller]

Friends:

 

We replaced a set of 24 IBE batteries recently.  The original set had all
batteries with captive cables (and one flag) except one, which had two
flags.  This made it easy to connect the leads from the BOS:  there was a
flag on the positive and negative ends.  

 

The new set had all batteries with cables.  Is there a standard for this?

 

Also, the flags had all 5/16” holes but when we untapped the lugs on the
cables, the holes were ¼”.  We are very used to using 5/16” SS bolts and
that is what we had in stock.  I am not comfortable using ¼” battery bolts.
Is there a standard for battery bolts?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

William

 

 

 

cid:679355323@23072013-1054

17395 Oak Rd. Atascadero, CA 93422

  www.millersolar.com

805-438-5600 voice

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248 VFX system

[Jay Peltz]

Dimmers are super specific to light brand/type.  You'll have to do the research 

For now swapping to regular switches should work

Jay


> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248 VFX system

[Kirpal Khalsa]

Thank you DanI will have customer check that!  Good idea.That is
always a good idea!!

Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Renewable Energy Systems
www.oregonsolarworks.com
541-218-0201 m
541-592-3958 o


On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 1:38 PM,  wrote:

> Might be worth checking battery connections..
>
>
> Dan Brown
> Foxfire Energy Corp.
> Renewable Energy Systems
> (802)-483-2564
> www.Foxfire-Energy.com
> NABCEP #092907-44
>
>
>   Original Message 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual
> 7248 VFX system
> From: Jay Peltz 
> Date: Mon, January 06, 2014 4:28 pm
> To: RE-wrenches 
>
> Hi Kirpal
>
> Are the lights on dimmers?
>
> Jay
> Peltz power
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 6, 2014, at 1:09 PM, Kirpal Khalsa  wrote:
>
> Hi All.have a puzzling problemcustomer has a fully LED lit house.
>   All LED lights are flickering when the fridge compressor, tile saw,
> grinder, washing machine etc come onThe inverters are about 6 years old
> Dual Outback VFX7248 power system with rolls surrrette batteries.they
> are building the house and most motors when they are running, including the
> fridge seem to cause the LED lights to flicker continuously while the
> motors are running, the fridge seems to be the worst culprit and just so
> happens to be the most regular and often runner (fridge is a Amana Model #
> ARB2257CC rated at 7.7 AmpsFridge is on a GFI outlet...The LED bulbs
> are Eco Smart made by Cree.Model 499 485 and they are all dimmable
> lights and they are on Lutron CL dimmer switches which are supposed to be
> compatible with LED bulbs.)
> Looking for any advice or others experience to try to solve this annoying
> problem.Anyone else have this problem with these particular bulbs or
> similar experiences with these or other LED bulbs
> I am having the customer try some other makes and brands of bulbs.
>
> Sunny Regards,
> Kirpal Khalsa
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> Renewable Energy Systems
> www.oregonsolarworks.com
> 541-218-0201 m
> 541-592-3958 o
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248 VFX system

[dan]

Might be worth checking battery connections.. Dan BrownFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.comNABCEP #092907-44


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual
7248 VFX system
From: Jay Peltz 
Date: Mon, January 06, 2014 4:28 pm
To: RE-wrenches 

Hi KirpalAre the lights on dimmers?JayPeltz powerSent from my iPhoneOn Jan 6, 2014, at 1:09 PM, Kirpal Khalsa  wrote:Hi All.have a puzzling problemcustomer has a fully LED lit house.   All LED lights are flickering when the fridge compressor, tile saw, grinder, washing machine etc come onThe inverters are about 6 years old Dual Outback VFX7248 power system with rolls surrrette batteries.they are building the house and most motors when they are running, including the fridge seem to cause the LED lights to flicker continuously while the motors are running, the fridge seems to be the worst culprit and just so happens to be the most regular and often runner (fridge is a Amana Model # ARB2257CC rated at 7.7 AmpsFridge is on a GFI outlet...The LED bulbs are Eco Smart made by Cree.Model 499 485 and they are all dimmable lights and they are on Lutron CL dimmer switches which are supposed to be compatible with LED bulbs.) Looking for any advice or others experience to try to solve this annoying problem.Anyone else have this problem with these particular bulbs or similar experiences with these or other LED bulbsI am having the customer try some other makes and brands of bulbs. Sunny Regards,Kirpal KhalsaNABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalRenewable Energy Systemswww.oregonsolarworks.com 541-218-0201 m541-592-3958 o  ___List sponsored by Home Power .org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248 VFX system

[Kirpal Khalsa]

Jay...yes the lights are on Lutron dimmer switches which are made
specifically for CFL and LED lights.it doesn't seem to make a
difference if they lights are on full tilt or dimmed downthe flickering
is there at any power level
Thanks!!

Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Renewable Energy Systems
www.oregonsolarworks.com
541-218-0201 m
541-592-3958 o


On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Jay Peltz  wrote:

> Hi Kirpal
>
> Are the lights on dimmers?
>
> Jay
> Peltz power
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 6, 2014, at 1:09 PM, Kirpal Khalsa  wrote:
>
> Hi All.have a puzzling problemcustomer has a fully LED lit house.
>   All LED lights are flickering when the fridge compressor, tile saw,
> grinder, washing machine etc come onThe inverters are about 6 years old
> Dual Outback VFX7248 power system with rolls surrrette batteries.they
> are building the house and most motors when they are running, including the
> fridge seem to cause the LED lights to flicker continuously while the
> motors are running, the fridge seems to be the worst culprit and just so
> happens to be the most regular and often runner (fridge is a Amana Model #
> ARB2257CC rated at 7.7 AmpsFridge is on a GFI outlet...The LED bulbs
> are Eco Smart made by Cree.Model 499 485 and they are all dimmable
> lights and they are on Lutron CL dimmer switches which are supposed to be
> compatible with LED bulbs.)
> Looking for any advice or others experience to try to solve this annoying
> problem.Anyone else have this problem with these particular bulbs or
> similar experiences with these or other LED bulbs
> I am having the customer try some other makes and brands of bulbs.
>
> Sunny Regards,
> Kirpal Khalsa
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> Renewable Energy Systems
> www.oregonsolarworks.com
> 541-218-0201 m
> 541-592-3958 o
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248 VFX system

[Jay Peltz]

Hi Kirpal

Are the lights on dimmers?

Jay
Peltz power

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 6, 2014, at 1:09 PM, Kirpal Khalsa  wrote:
> 
> Hi All.have a puzzling problemcustomer has a fully LED lit house.   
> All LED lights are flickering when the fridge compressor, tile saw, grinder, 
> washing machine etc come onThe inverters are about 6 years old Dual 
> Outback VFX7248 power system with rolls surrrette batteries.they are 
> building the house and most motors when they are running, including the 
> fridge seem to cause the LED lights to flicker continuously while the motors 
> are running, the fridge seems to be the worst culprit and just so happens to 
> be the most regular and often runner (fridge is a Amana Model # ARB2257CC 
> rated at 7.7 AmpsFridge is on a GFI outlet...The LED bulbs are Eco Smart 
> made by Cree.Model 499 485 and they are all dimmable lights and they are 
> on Lutron CL dimmer switches which are supposed to be compatible with LED 
> bulbs.)
> Looking for any advice or others experience to try to solve this annoying 
> problem.Anyone else have this problem with these particular bulbs or 
> similar experiences with these or other LED bulbs
> I am having the customer try some other makes and brands of bulbs.
> 
> Sunny Regards,
> Kirpal Khalsa
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> Renewable Energy Systems
> www.oregonsolarworks.com
> 541-218-0201 m
> 541-592-3958 o
> ___
> List sponsored by Home Power .org
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Deka AGMs

[Ray Walters]

I finally found a cycle life chart on these: they're rated at 1200 
cycles to 80% DOD, and about 2000 cycles @40% DOD.
In an "average" off grid system at 12 years old, I'd say they're near 
the end of their life.  In a back up setup, who knows.
I've tested systems like this before, I basically turn on some heavy 
constant resistance loads (like all the lights, plus a heater or 2) and 
measure the volt drop over time.  You've got to hit it with discharge 
rate of at least C10, otherwise you'll be there all night.  I also check 
separate cell voltages to see if any are weak.
You'll know within a couple of hours whether there is anything left to 
them or not.  I set the test up, watch it for 30 minutes, go get lunch, 
and see what's happening when I get back.  I'm actually less concerned 
with whether the bank meets its original specs, and more interested in 
whether it will still provide the backup service the customer is expecting.


R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 1/6/2014 1:59 PM, August Goers wrote:


All Battery Wrenches,

I'm servicing an existing battery backup system with some big Deka AGM 
battery banks. I believe they are about 12 years old. Does anyone have 
any general comments about Deka batteries? Any suggestions about how I 
would test these would be greatly appreciated. Here's a link to the 
product:


http://www.dekabatteries.com/default.aspx?pageid=366

Thanks,

August

Luminalt



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[RE-wrenches] Flickering LED lights on and Outback Dual 7248 VFX system

[Kirpal Khalsa]

Hi All.have a puzzling problemcustomer has a fully LED lit house.
All LED lights are flickering when the fridge compressor, tile saw,
grinder, washing machine etc come onThe inverters are about 6 years old
Dual Outback VFX7248 power system with rolls surrrette batteries.they
are building the house and most motors when they are running, including the
fridge seem to cause the LED lights to flicker continuously while the
motors are running, the fridge seems to be the worst culprit and just so
happens to be the most regular and often runner (fridge is a Amana Model #
ARB2257CC rated at 7.7 AmpsFridge is on a GFI outlet...The LED bulbs
are Eco Smart made by Cree.Model 499 485 and they are all dimmable
lights and they are on Lutron CL dimmer switches which are supposed to be
compatible with LED bulbs.)
Looking for any advice or others experience to try to solve this annoying
problem.Anyone else have this problem with these particular bulbs or
similar experiences with these or other LED bulbs
I am having the customer try some other makes and brands of bulbs.

Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Renewable Energy Systems
www.oregonsolarworks.com
541-218-0201 m
541-592-3958 o
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[RE-wrenches] Deka AGMs

[August Goers]

All Battery Wrenches,



I’m servicing an existing battery backup system with some big Deka AGM
battery banks. I believe they are about 12 years old. Does anyone have any
general comments about Deka batteries? Any suggestions about how I would
test these would be greatly appreciated. Here’s a link to the product:



http://www.dekabatteries.com/default.aspx?pageid=366



Thanks,





August



Luminalt
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Re: [RE-wrenches] CA Fire code

[David Brearley]

With regards to the second part of your question, Trina has a glass-on-glass PV 
module:

http://www.trinasolar.com/us/product/PDG5.html

I suspect that the glass-on-glass module from SolarWorld is Class A fire rated 
as well.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] CA Fire code

[David Brearley]

Lars,

Back in October, UL was in the process of finalizing a new fire test method for 
for roof-mounted PV systems. This new test method will bridge the gap between 
the fire tests for roofing coverings (UL 790) and those found in UL 1703, the 
standard for flat-plate PV modules. Long story short, Class C PV modules 
installed over a Class A roofing system will result in a Class A fire-rated 
roof-mounted PV system.

At least that's how I understood the presentation delivered by Christopher 
Flueckinger from UL during the "Fire Safety" session at SPI in Chicago. I'm 
sure Bill Brooks will chime in shortly and provide more clarity.

Best regards,

David Brearley
Senior Technical Editor, SolarPro magazine
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
david.brear...@solarprofessional.com
Direct: 541.261.6545






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Re: [RE-wrenches] CA Fire code

[Dan Fink]

Wow Lars.
setbacks and signage are ICC 2012, and auto rooftop discos NEC2014, where
did this Class A bus you got thrown under come from? It's not ICC or NEC
from what I can read.
Is there an SEIA person on this list?
Pretty much every install I do here in Colorado is wildland/urban
interface. We dont do many roof mounts as rural folks generally have lots
of land for a ground mount, but wow. As a firefighter, who also makes a
living teaching solar power firefighter safety classes, requiring class A
doesn't make sense and provides no safety benefits to firefighters or
homeowners. Analyzing incident reports and going on service jobs, I see the
combination of physical movement of conductors against rough services (heat
expansion and contraction, wind etc) and debris buildup (pine needles,
leaves) under rooftop PV mounts as the big issue, with animal damage coming
in 2nd.
Most homes burn down 0.5-3 days AFTER the flame front has moved through,
thanks to windblown firebrands (embers) lodged in wooden nooks and crannys
of the home. A plain plywood exterior wall can  withstand a 100 foot high
flame front 100 feet away without igniting. This is all proven, tested and
videotaped. If the roof starts to burn from a firebrand..the fire
rating of the PV modules themselves is meaningless.

Agh. I'm thankful for this list, please keep it in the loop here or
email me personally. I am making major changes to my firefighter safety /
outreach class this spring and need all the info I can get.

I hope BIll Brooks saw your posting and responds.

Dan Fink,
Executive Director;
Otherpower
Buckville Energy Consulting
Buckville Publications LLC
NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
970.672.4342




On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Lars Ortegren  wrote:

> Wrenches,
> If you are in a wild land fire zone in CA, it looks like we are all in for
> a rude awakening. Our local AHJ is requiring not only set backs for
> ventilation of roofs, but also THAT ALL PANELS ON THE ROOF CARY A CLASS A
> FIRE RATING! It doesn't take allot of research to realize that this pretty
> much eliminates roof-top solar as an option, as if you can eve find a class
> A panel, they are cost prohibitive. I'm wondering a couple things. One, has
> anyone had luck using the local political process to postpone the
> enforcement of the class A requirement? and two, has anyone found readily
> available Class A modules?
>   This issue seems to have caught the industry with it's pants down, as
> industry lobby doesn't even seem to be aware that the the local AHJ's would
> have this interpretation. Is this the end of roof top solar in 60% of
> California? What are y'all doing to deal with this issue?
>
> --
>
> *Lars Ortegren*
>
> *President*
>
> California Solar Electric Company 
>
> .PO Box 480
>
> 149 E.Main St
>
> Grass Valley, CA 95945
>
> Phone : (530)274-3671 Fax: (530)274-7518
>
>  *California C-10 Electical Contractor #779624*
>
> *Certified NABCEP Continuing Education Provider*
>
> *Certified NAPCEP Technical Sales and Installation Profesional *
>
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[RE-wrenches] CA Fire code

[Lars Ortegren]

Wrenches,
If you are in a wild land fire zone in CA, it looks like we are all in for
a rude awakening. Our local AHJ is requiring not only set backs for
ventilation of roofs, but also THAT ALL PANELS ON THE ROOF CARY A CLASS A
FIRE RATING! It doesn't take allot of research to realize that this pretty
much eliminates roof-top solar as an option, as if you can eve find a class
A panel, they are cost prohibitive. I'm wondering a couple things. One, has
anyone had luck using the local political process to postpone the
enforcement of the class A requirement? and two, has anyone found readily
available Class A modules?
  This issue seems to have caught the industry with it's pants down, as
industry lobby doesn't even seem to be aware that the the local AHJ's would
have this interpretation. Is this the end of roof top solar in 60% of
California? What are y'all doing to deal with this issue?

-- 

*Lars Ortegren*

*President*

California Solar Electric Company 

.PO Box 480

149 E.Main St

Grass Valley, CA 95945

Phone : (530)274-3671 Fax: (530)274-7518

 *California C-10 Electical Contractor #779624*

*Certified NABCEP Continuing Education Provider*

*Certified NAPCEP Technical Sales and Installation Profesional *
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