Re: [RE-wrenches] Batteryless Backup
Secure Power Supply on the SMA SB-X000-TL-US. We did one recently. Interesting concept. If you have 5000+ watts on a 5000W inverter with a 1500W SPS, you should have a pretty good window each day where a good portion of the 1500W is available. I wouldn't rely on it for more critical loads like refrigeration, but charging computers and portable electronics works great. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:38 PM, All Solar, Inc. allso...@scswifi.netwrote: Wrenches I did a quick search with no luck on, I believe an SMA product that provides minimal backup in a grid outage without batteries. Was I imagining this? I could not find it on their site either. Maybe it was another manufacturer. ? ! Thanks for any input. Jeremy Rodriguez, President All Solar, Inc. 1463 M Penrose Colorado 81240 719-372-3808 office 719-372-3804 fax www.asolarelectric.com Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Subject: Re: Best Ground Racking?
I second the value of the 'lipstick' anti-seize from Locktite. Significantly less mess. Glenn From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:44 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Subject: Re: Best Ground Racking? Anti-Seize compound is readily available in twist-to-advance sticks. We have used it that way for years, and we never bother with toothpicks or brushes and we never get it on our fingers. It's by Loctite, it's called QuickStix and it's called Silver Grade Anti-Seize. Carry one in each tool bag and more on the truck. Allan Sindelar mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder, Positive Energy, Inc. A Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ www.positiveenergysolar.com On 2/6/2014 4:58 PM, Kelly Larson wrote: I use a toothpick and put a tiny bit in the bolt threads. It's a little less messy that way. Blessings, Kelly On Feb 6, 2014, at 1:25 PM, Chris Mason wrote: This is the stuff. Be prepared for it to get everywhere, it's really messy (or maybe I am). http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80078-Anti-Seize-Lubricant-Bottle/dp/B000AAJ TXY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1391721840sr=8-1keywords=permatex+anti-seize+lu bricant http://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80078-Anti-Seize-Lubricant-Bottle/dp/B000AAJT XY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8qid=1391721840sr=8-1keywords=permatex+anti-seize+lub ricant On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 5:21 PM, Chris Mason mailto:cometenergysyst...@gmail.com cometenergysyst...@gmail.com wrote: Probably Permatex. On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Ray Walters mailto:r...@solarray.com r...@solarray.com wrote: We use Anti- Seize Lubricant made by Permalex. I get it at the auto parts store. I have an 8 oz. bottle with built in brush on applicator. Definitely recommended on all SS hardware. I took apart another installer5's rack to add modules, and half the bolts were ruined and had to be replaced. I recommend a torque wrench too, its super easy to over5 tighten the SS hardware. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer tel:303%20505-8760 303 505-8760 On 2/6/2014 11:20 AM, Jason Andrade wrote: there are a lot of stainless bolts, I use pentrox as a anti galling compound, what do other people use? ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/ www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Chris Mason President, Comet Systems Ltd http://www.cometenergysystems.com/ www.cometenergysystems.com Cell: tel:264.235.5670 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts -- Chris Mason President, Comet Systems Ltd http://www.cometenergysystems.com/ www.cometenergysystems.com Cell: 264.235.5670 Skype: netconcepts ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out
Re: [RE-wrenches] Batteryless Backup
Home Power recently (latest issue) did an article that had a write up on this unit - you may want to look there as well for comments and info. -Glenn -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of All Solar, Inc. Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 11:38 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Batteryless Backup Wrenches I did a quick search with no luck on, I believe an SMA product that provides minimal backup in a grid outage without batteries. Was I imagining this? I could not find it on their site either. Maybe it was another manufacturer. ? ! Thanks for any input. Jeremy Rodriguez, President All Solar, Inc. 1463 M Penrose Colorado 81240 719-372-3808 office 719-372-3804 fax www.asolarelectric.com Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] generator stumpage
Magnum has excellent generator support. Wish I could help you with CARB. Please let us all know when/if you find something. Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:15 PM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote: hey wrenches, im working on a design for an offgrid camp and am stumped at my least favorite issue... generators. im running into the CARB (california air quality board) requirements, which have removed all the units i am interested in (like the Onan/Cummings GNAB model) from the market. the camp is super efficient and the RE system will basically be a medium sized (these days) off grid system. desired generator: propane (@ 5000' elevation) low speed (1800 rpm) open frame liquid cooled 12 to 15 kW split phase 120/240 thanks, and does anyone know offhand if the radian or magnum inverters offer generator support these days. todd ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Module fire ratings
Hi David, Can you elaborate on the mounting system(s?) that would minimize fire propagation? TIA, Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 On 06-Feb-14 1:11 PM, David Brearley wrote: William, There are few Class A fire-rated PV modules on the market today: http://www.trinasolar.com/us/product/PDG5.html http://www.silicon-energy.com/products/modules The broader context is that UL is in the process of revising the way that fire ratings are determined for PV systems. To date, modules have received a fire classification. However in the installed environment, fire propagation has more to do with the mounting system than with module construction. Therefore, fire classification tests in the future will be based more on the mounting method. As Bill Brooks explained here on January 8th: UL 1703 has been substantially changed as to how modules are fire rated. Basically, modules will no longer receive a direct fire rating unless they are installed in a fire-rated mounting system. A current module with a Class C or Class A rating will no longer have that rating. The mounting system will carry the fire rating. Modules will have specific “types” based on their construction. This way a rack manufacturer can get a fire rating on modules of a particular module construction type and not have to rerate their rack with every module that has that same construction. All these changes in the UL1703 standard are going to require education so that fire officials and building code enforcement officials understand how to enforce the new building code rules in light of the new version of the UL standard. Arguably, enforcement of fire rating requirements in the I-codes is running ahead of the development of the applicable UL standard. It's safe to say that working groups at SEIA and SolarABCs are very interested in tracking these types of issues. The SolarABCs has had fire classification ratings on its radar for several years now: http://www.solarabcs.org/current-issues/fire_class_rating.html David Brearley Senior Technical Editor,/SolarPro/magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional david.brear...@solarprofessional.com mailto:david.brear...@solarprofessional.com Direct: 541.261.6545 On Feb 6, 2014, at 12:20 PM, re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org wrote: *From:*William Korthof wkort...@gmail.com mailto:wkort...@gmail.com *Subject:**[RE-wrenches] Solar Module fire ratings* *Date:*February 6, 2014 10:56:05 AM CST *To:*re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org *Reply-To:*RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org I've just been informed by a city (our own City in fact) that is asking for minimum Class-B fire-rated solar modules, citing rules newly adopted Jan 1, 2014. The expert behind the counter made reference to IRC section 902.4, which seems to call for solar installations to meet the same fire rating standard as the roofing on which they are installed. It was the end of the day. Most roofing is B or A rating apparently, and my official was adamant that this meant only a B or A rated panel would be allowed. As far as I know, virtually every solar panel I've ever handled going back to the mid 90's was Class C rated. The only Class A I remember (and the only one I noticed from web searching) was the obnoxiously unwieldy glass-on-glass 300-watt series that got absorbed by Schott and probably discontinued many years ago. I have one of those antiques in my shop for fun, and I encountered exactly one installation that used the product (from another installer), and there were issues with the panels within the first 10 years. Is this Class A/B requirement issue true? Did the state fire marshall adopt a policy at the start of this year that basically bans all panels with C rating? Are there any class B or A rated modules on the market? Who's brilliant idea was this? /wk -- William Korthof http://www.sustainsp.com/images/SSP_Logo_RGB_email.jpg 714.875.3576 and 800.524.2970 Sustainable Solutions Partners (also dba: EE Solar) ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3684/7068 - Release Date: 02/06/14 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3697/7071 - Release Date: 02/07/14___ List sponsored
Re: [RE-wrenches] generator stumpage
I just looked at the ONAN RV propane and it states that IT IS carb cert. I will
usually install the Command Mobil units.
On Feb 6, 2014, at 10:15 PM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote:
hey wrenches,
im working on a design for an offgrid camp and am stumped at my least
favorite issue... generators. im running into the CARB (california air
quality board) requirements, which have removed all the units i am interested
in (like the Onan/Cummings GNAB model) from the market.
the camp is super efficient and the RE system will basically be a medium
sized (these days) off grid system.
desired generator:
propane (@ 5000' elevation)
low speed (1800 rpm)
open frame
liquid cooled
12 to 15 kW
split phase 120/240
thanks, and does anyone know offhand if the radian or magnum inverters offer
generator support these days.
todd
Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.
Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.
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[RE-wrenches] conductor properties of PV wire
Are these listed in the 2014 code (diameter, ampacities, etc)? I don't see them in the usual Ch. 9 or 310.15 tables. Am I missing it? Kirk Herander VT Solar, LLC dba Vermont Solar Engineering NABCEPTM Certified Inaugural Certificant NYSERDA-eligible Installer VT RE Incentive Program Partner 802.863.1202 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] DC Fusing/Breakers for Battery Circuits
I look at batteries the same way as modules each string gets it own protection, its good for trouble shootings and for safety. we use the magnum Energy Class T fuse and holder, its cheap and works very well. If you have ever seen a short of a battery bank you would always install fuses right there at the bank and even just one bank Jerry On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.comwrote: Allan's assessment matches my experience. Interesting note: Outback's IBR enclosures include string-level overcurrent protection for added safety according to their data sheet. http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/integrated_battery_rack/spec_sheet.pdf http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/integrated_battery_rack/integrated_battery_rack_installation_manual.pdf Jason Szumlanski On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 6:06 PM, Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com wrote: Dave, I'm not really clear what your question is, but let me take a stab at it anyway. Parallel strings of batteries are routine in PV systems; indeed, far more common than single strings of large cells. Seldom are the individual strings separately fused, and I have never seen it required as a Code issue. The entire battery bank as a single entity is considered a single current source. Overcurrent protection is sized in accordance with the battery cable size - or rather vice versa: the overcurrent protection is sized to the requirements of the inverter(s) and the cables are sized to the overcurrent protection. Having said that, there are at least two cases where it's a good idea to account for it, whether or not addressed in the Code: 1) In smaller systems, such as with two or three strings of common batteries, you will eventually have a cell failure. When that happens, the amps increase on the other remaining strings. So it is good practice to oversize series and parallel interconnects for that eventuality. 2) For similar reasons, in large battery banks we have sometimes added Class T fuses, appropriately sized to the application, to the B+ output of each string before combining them on a bussbar. These fuses serve only as catastrophic protection in case the entire load tries to exceed the ampacity of one set of cells and thus one set of cables. When we have done what I think you have described - two parallel 48V strings of 4 12V batteries each - we combine them with cables, without additional string-level protection. That is in accordance with manufacturers' instructions. Allan *Allan Sindelar* *al...@positiveenergysolar.com* al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder, *Positive Energy, Inc.* A Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 *505 424-1112 505%20424-1112 office 780-2738 cell* *www.positiveenergysolar.com* http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ On 2/6/2014 3:23 PM, Dave Click wrote: All, I think that in the past, list discussions have talked about fusing of parallel battery circuits as a best practice, but it's required per 690.9 right? (text below from 2008 NEC) Also, if someone (don't look at me) really wants to use 2 parallel circuits of 12V batteries, what equipment is recommended to provide overcurrent protection? The installer is using Outback hardware (FW500?) and has two battery circuits combined in the battery enclosure and run to a Big Bus feeding the two 125A dc disconnects for two GVFX3648s. If you've read this far, this area is more your wheelhouse than mine. Thanks in advance! 690.9 Overcurrent Protection (A) Circuits and Equipment. Photovoltaic source circuit, photovoltaic output circuit, inverter output circuit, and storage battery circuit conductors and equipment shall be protected in accordance with the requirements of Article 240. Circuits connected to more than one electrical source shall have overcurrent devices located so as to provide overcurrent protection from all sources. Exception: An overcurrent device shall not be required for circuit conductors sized in accordance with 690.8(B) and located where one of the following apply: (a) There are no external sources such as parallel-connected source circuits, batteries, or backfeed from inverters. (b) The short-circuit currents from all sources do not exceed the ampacity of the conductors. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___
Re: [RE-wrenches] generator stumpage
Hi Todd While I can't help on the genny side The radian has always had genny support and the new magnum RE version does as well Jay Peltz Power On Feb 6, 2014, at 8:15 PM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote: hey wrenches, im working on a design for an offgrid camp and am stumped at my least favorite issue... generators. im running into the CARB (california air quality board) requirements, which have removed all the units i am interested in (like the Onan/Cummings GNAB model) from the market. the camp is super efficient and the RE system will basically be a medium sized (these days) off grid system. desired generator: propane (@ 5000' elevation) low speed (1800 rpm) open frame liquid cooled 12 to 15 kW split phase 120/240 thanks, and does anyone know offhand if the radian or magnum inverters offer generator support these days. todd Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Module fire ratings
There are several SolarABCs reports that speak to this. For example: http://bit.ly/1bD8wM7 The complete list of reports is found here: http://www.solarabcs.org/current-issues/fire_class_rating.html David Brearley Senior Technical Editor, SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional david.brear...@solarprofessional.com Direct: 541.261.6545 On Feb 7, 2014, at 8:55 AM, re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org wrote: From: Bill Loesch solar1onl...@charter.net Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Module fire ratings Date: February 7, 2014 8:54:22 AM CST To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Reply-To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Hi David, Can you elaborate on the mounting system(s?) that would minimize fire propagation? TIA, Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] conductor properties of PV wire
Kirk, There is no standard diameter for PV Wire so Chapter 9 table 1 must be used. By the way, Table 1 is the code and the table in Annex C are not officially the code. They are simply informational based on the standard nominal diameters of various conductors. Many conductors have non-standard dimensions, so using Annex C blindly, without checking the diameter, is not a good idea. USE-2 and RHW-2 are good examples in addition to PV Wire where the diameter does not match the Annex C tables. Lastly, the 40% requirement in Table 1 is an absolute maximum allowed. Best practice is to go no more than 75% of the maximum allowable (about 30% fill). This is particularly important for rubberized insulators like RHW and USE since 40% fill can be very difficult to pull through longer runs regardless of how much lube is used. Bill. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kirk Herander Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 8:23 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] conductor properties of PV wire Are these listed in the 2014 code (diameter, ampacities, etc)? I don't see them in the usual Ch. 9 or 310.15 tables. Am I missing it? Kirk Herander VT Solar, LLC dba Vermont Solar Engineering NABCEPTM Certified Inaugural Certificant NYSERDA-eligible Installer VT RE Incentive Program Partner 802.863.1202 --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Module fire ratings
Guess I am missing the thread. Does it even matter anymore what the rating of the modules is anymore? What is now operative is a rating of the combined module/mounting system? Mark On 2/7/2014 9:38 AM, David Brearley wrote: There are several SolarABCs reports that speak to this. For example: http://bit.ly/1bD8wM7 http://www.solarabcs.org/current-issues/docs/UL_Report_Gap_and_Flashing_Exps_3-29-12.pdf The complete list of reports is found here: http://www.solarabcs.org/current-issues/fire_class_rating.html David Brearley Senior Technical Editor,/SolarPro/magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional david.brear...@solarprofessional.com mailto:david.brear...@solarprofessional.com Direct: 541.261.6545 On Feb 7, 2014, at 8:55 AM, re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org wrote: * From:*Bill Loesch solar1onl...@charter.net mailto:solar1onl...@charter.net *Subject:**Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Module fire ratings* *Date:*February 7, 2014 8:54:22 AM CST *To:*RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org *Reply-To:*RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Hi David, Can you elaborate on the mounting system(s?) that would minimize fire propagation? TIA, Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Module fire ratings
So does this help understand why Sunrun bought REC and Snap n Rack? Going forward the only installable equipment will be provided by large groups that can afford to test and rate their own panel with specific racking systems that they also own? Mark On 2/7/2014 9:38 AM, David Brearley wrote: There are several SolarABCs reports that speak to this. For example: http://bit.ly/1bD8wM7 http://www.solarabcs.org/current-issues/docs/UL_Report_Gap_and_Flashing_Exps_3-29-12.pdf The complete list of reports is found here: http://www.solarabcs.org/current-issues/fire_class_rating.html David Brearley Senior Technical Editor,/SolarPro/magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional david.brear...@solarprofessional.com mailto:david.brear...@solarprofessional.com Direct: 541.261.6545 On Feb 7, 2014, at 8:55 AM, re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org wrote: * From:*Bill Loesch solar1onl...@charter.net mailto:solar1onl...@charter.net *Subject:**Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Module fire ratings* *Date:*February 7, 2014 8:54:22 AM CST *To:*RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org *Reply-To:*RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Hi David, Can you elaborate on the mounting system(s?) that would minimize fire propagation? TIA, Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo
I have them on my system at home and on a system at a local community college. I like the data available from the system. My system had shade issues so I like the idea of them with issues suck as mine. I mounted the gateway device in the attic bellow the array instead of outside at the array. I'd use them again. Jesse Dahl RE-Power LLC www.repowermn.com Sent from my iPhone On Feb 6, 2014, at 7:48 PM, Dana Brandt d...@ecotechenergy.com wrote: We haven't used any of these yet but I'm considering it. Anyone have any experience they can share? Thanks, Dana Dana Brandt Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC www.ecotechenergy.com d...@ecotechenergy.com 360.318.7646 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Module fire ratings
Mark, You should know better than anyone else that you can't corner the sun market. If you read the reports you will find that your deepest fears are unfounded. Bill. From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mark Frye Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 10:32 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Module fire ratings So does this help understand why Sunrun bought REC and Snap n Rack? Going forward the only installable equipment will be provided by large groups that can afford to test and rate their own panel with specific racking systems that they also own? Mark On 2/7/2014 9:38 AM, David Brearley wrote: There are several SolarABCs reports that speak to this. For example: http://bit.ly/1bD8wM7 http://www.solarabcs.org/current-issues/docs/UL_Report_Gap_and_Flashing_Exp s_3-29-12.pdf The complete list of reports is found here: http://www.solarabcs.org/current-issues/fire_class_rating.html David Brearley Senior Technical Editor, SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional david.brear...@solarprofessional.com mailto:david.brear...@solarprofessional.com Direct: 541.261.6545 On Feb 7, 2014, at 8:55 AM, re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org wrote: From: Bill Loesch solar1onl...@charter.net mailto:solar1onl...@charter.net Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Module fire ratings Date: February 7, 2014 8:54:22 AM CST To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Reply-To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Hi David, Can you elaborate on the mounting system(s?) that would minimize fire propagation? TIA, Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org http://www.members.re-wrenches.org --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] DC Fusing/Breakers for Battery Circuits
I started using automotive SAE rated resettable circuit breakers like these: http://www.delcity.net/store/Hi!Amp-Surface-Mount-!-%3Cbr%3EManual-Reset-%28Switchable%29/p_193073 I'm only using these on smaller stand alone (non NEC) off grid systems, but they are sealed, and allow protection right at the battery. Price is decent too. If used as supplementary protection, (in addition to a listed DC breaker) the inspector might let you use these, since the batteries aren't usually UL listed either. I've seen folks use Class T fuses right at the battery terminal, which in some ways offers superior protection, but seeing corrosion eating up around the outside of your expensive fuse is concerning. I also agree with Dan on battery box construction, plywood isn't so good, steel corrodes. it seems both battery box construction and OCP at the box for flooded cells is just not really there. Plenty of good choices (Outback, Midnite) for sealed batteries. We really could use a battery that had integrated OCP that was sealed against corrosion. It could just be a class T fuse with an anti -corrosive seal with a holder integrated into the positive terminal. (the things I dream of at night) R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 2/7/2014 10:26 AM, Dan Fink wrote: Does anyone have any elegant solutions to this? It's really time consuming and ugly to run big parallel battery string wires *out* of the battery enclosure to class T fuses, then back into the battery box. It looks very ugly and DIY, and in conduit adds a few hundred to the install cost just for labor. The Class T fuses and blocks themselves are not particularly expensive. I have been recommending parallel fusing on battery banks of 2x8 L16s and over now, after a nearly tragic incident with a bad cell that shorted. The (perfectly legal) wooden battery box made the fire much worse. A pet peeve of mine. Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] DC Fusing/Breakers for Battery Circuits
Does anyone have any elegant solutions to this? It's really time consuming and ugly to run big parallel battery string wires *out* of the battery enclosure to class T fuses, then back into the battery box. It looks very ugly and DIY, and in conduit adds a few hundred to the install cost just for labor. The Class T fuses and blocks themselves are not particularly expensive. I have been recommending parallel fusing on battery banks of 2x8 L16s and over now, after a nearly tragic incident with a bad cell that shorted. The (perfectly legal) wooden battery box made the fire much worse. A pet peeve of mine. Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] (RE-wrenches) Solar Repair Puzzle
Hello Wrenches, Here is a solar repair puzzle. I am debugging a faulty and now partially non-functional grid-tie job in Southern California installed by another (non-cooperative) contractor. One of two inverter's has failed (2 months post warranty) and I am trying to find a solution for the homeowner that doesn't involve a complete system re-install and meter main panel upgrade. Here are the repair issues: #1) ARRAY DESIGN FLAW: There are 2 inverters with single MPPTs that each serve arrays with panels facing in two directions (90 degrees azimuth apart) in the same single source circuit string. Details: 30 KC130GT panels facing East. 18 KC130GT Panels facing South. Each 3000 watt inverter has 1 string of 24 Panels…mixed and matched. (and here's the kicker---10 separate physical sub-arrays…really) (Note: module and array wiring not PV rated) #2) INVERTER FAILURE. One of the two inverters (A piece of crap Xantrex GT3.0 that was field-serviced for the bad capacitor in 2011) is kaput. #3) GROUND FAULTS: Wet weather ground faulting on PV source circuit for failed 3K inverter (fuses blown 3 times.) No significant voltage to ground when dry. Don't yet have a wet wire voltage reading to find fault. #4) CODE VIOLATIONS. A) Meter Main Buss Overload. 100 amp rated panel. 100 amp MCB. 40 amp solar breaker. Even better…a famously flammable Zinsco buss and breakers. 28.4 amps max combined continuous inverter current. (not likely due to the different azimuths of the array, but…you know…way over NEC 690.64.B.2). B) Inadequate GEC…undersized and improperly spliced all over the place. Thus: Is this poor old lady just hosed? Any clever ideas to save her from a massive repair and meter main upgrade? She is looking at 10k+ fix. Second story steep roof… I'm stumped. Best regards, Abe -- J. Abraham Powell President Solforce Systems, Inc. 224-G South Milpas Street Santa Barbara, CA 93103 e-mail: a...@solforce.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] DC Fusing/Breakers for Battery Circuits
Hi All, Correction: Another Wrench member contacted me off-list and noticed that we have a class RK5 in one photo and a T in the other photo. This opens up the question of whether one or both are correct or incorrect. I think both are rated for 20k AIC for DC voltage but I'll have to look through my order records to be certain. The R is slow acting and the T is fast acting. Best, August *From:* August Goers [mailto:aug...@luminalt.com] *Sent:* Friday, February 07, 2014 3:32 PM *To:* 'RE-wrenches' *Subject:* RE: [RE-wrenches] DC Fusing/Breakers for Battery Circuits Hi Dan, I've been wondering the same think. We've been fusing with a class T in the battery box and grounding the negative side of the batteries. See attached pics. Do you feel that the fuses should be outside of the battery box? Best, August Luminalt Energy *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [ mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.orgre-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Dan Fink *Sent:* Friday, February 07, 2014 9:27 AM *To:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] DC Fusing/Breakers for Battery Circuits Does anyone have any elegant solutions to this? It's really time consuming and ugly to run big parallel battery string wires *out* of the battery enclosure to class T fuses, then back into the battery box. It looks very ugly and DIY, and in conduit adds a few hundred to the install cost just for labor. The Class T fuses and blocks themselves are not particularly expensive. I have been recommending parallel fusing on battery banks of 2x8 L16s and over now, after a nearly tragic incident with a bad cell that shorted. The (perfectly legal) wooden battery box made the fire much worse. A pet peeve of mine. Dan Fink, Executive Director; Otherpower Buckville Energy Consulting Buckville Publications LLC NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers 970.672.4342 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Sunny Island Battery Disconnects
Friends: I am reworking an installation with 3 Sunny Island inverters. The battery leads have no disconnecting means or OCP. I have been looking for sensible hardware to provide this and I have found some options. I am interested in any input on these or ideas I have not discovered. 1. SMA BATFUSE. I am having trouble deciding which one is right for a 3 SI install. a. The B.003 appears to have fuse positions for the positive and the negative leads. I am fairly darn certain I don't want fuses in the negative leads of a negative bonded system, and although this is my first SI install, I am pretty sure this is negative bonded. Am I missing something here? b. The B.001 has only positions for two fuses as far as I can see from the manual. c. So it looks like neither will work for me. Does anyone have any experience and/or wisdom here? 2. Midnite Solar E-panels: a. The regular panel has DC and AC components. I want to control the AC elsewhere so I could order three slave units. The Midnite unit mounts right under the inverter but I would prefer to have the OCP closer to the batteries. 3. Outback: a. We could purchase an Outback FX1000 and install three breakers in it. 4. Breaker Size: a. I have started to read the manual but I have yet to find out what size breaker fuse is recommended. Have I just not found it yet? b. Also, I have not found a specification for battery cable size. Am I blind? Thanks in advance. I really appreciate the help I receive here. I try to give as well as receive. William ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island Battery Disconnects
I'm working on something similar. I think the Flex 1000 is the only reasonable choice that can handle more than 2 of the large format DC breakers. Midnite has the more expensive MNBCB -1000 Battery Combiner box, but there just isn't enough documentation to figure out what it can and can't do. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 2/7/2014 6:29 PM, will...@millersolar.com wrote: Friends: I am reworking an installation with 3 Sunny Island inverters. The battery leads have no disconnecting means or OCP. I have been looking for sensible hardware to provide this and I have found some options. I am interested in any input on these or ideas I have not discovered. 1.SMA BATFUSE. I am having trouble deciding which one is right for a 3 SI install. a.The B.003 appears to have fuse positions for the positive and the negative leads. I am fairly darn certain I don't want fuses in the negative leads of a negative bonded system, and although this is my first SI install, I am pretty sure this is negative bonded. Am I missing something here? b.The B.001 has only positions for two fuses as far as I can see from the manual. c.So it looks like neither will work for me. Does anyone have any experience and/or wisdom here? 2.Midnite Solar E-panels: a.The regular panel has DC and AC components. I want to control the AC elsewhere so I could order three slave units. The Midnite unit mounts right under the inverter but I would prefer to have the OCP closer to the batteries. 3.Outback: a.We could purchase an Outback FX1000 and install three breakers in it. 4.Breaker Size: a.I have started to read the manual but I have yet to find out what size breaker fuse is recommended. Have I just not found it yet? b.Also, I have not found a specification for battery cable size. Am I blind? Thanks in advance. I really appreciate the help I receive here. I try to give as well as receive. William ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island Battery Disconnects
Hi William, You might try reaching out to Roy Dyngen of SMA - he is a good contact for these types of general questions. Email me off list if you would like his contact info. Is the SMA BATFUSE available in the US? Anyway, SMA has always recommended connecting the negative of the batteries to ground when I called their tech support line. As always, you would not fuse a grounded conductor so the negatives wouldn't be fused. We've been using fuse blocks and fuses to fuse our DC lines per one of my recent posts. It is certainly not the cleanest way to provide over current protection but gets the job done and I think is perfectly adequate. I typically fuse each string of batteries with a 175 A fuse and use 2/0 wire. I think 3/0 is the largest that the terminal blocks in the Sunny Island can handle -buried in the manual section 6.2.2 you'll find that. A 175 A fuse allows for 6720 Watts of power (175 A x 48 v / 1.25) on the DC side or 8400 Watts before the fuse will blow and it protects the 2/0. You will want to fuse each string of batteries before combining them and running to the Sunny Islands. I'll check out the products you've listed below and consider using them for our next project as well. Best, August *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of * will...@millersolar.com *Sent:* Friday, February 07, 2014 5:29 PM *To:* 'RE-wrenches' *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island Battery Disconnects Friends: I am reworking an installation with 3 Sunny Island inverters. The battery leads have no disconnecting means or OCP. I have been looking for sensible hardware to provide this and I have found some options. I am interested in any input on these or ideas I have not discovered. 1. SMA BATFUSE. I am having trouble deciding which one is right for a 3 SI install. a. The B.003 appears to have fuse positions for the positive and the negative leads. I am fairly darn certain I don't want fuses in the negative leads of a negative bonded system, and although this is my first SI install, I am pretty sure this is negative bonded. Am I missing something here? b. The B.001 has only positions for two fuses as far as I can see from the manual. c. So it looks like neither will work for me. Does anyone have any experience and/or wisdom here? 2. Midnite Solar E-panels: a. The regular panel has DC and AC components. I want to control the AC elsewhere so I could order three slave units. The Midnite unit mounts right under the inverter but I would prefer to have the OCP closer to the batteries. 3. Outback: a. We could purchase an Outback FX1000 and install three breakers in it. 4. Breaker Size: a. I have started to read the manual but I have yet to find out what size breaker fuse is recommended. Have I just not found it yet? b. Also, I have not found a specification for battery cable size. Am I blind? Thanks in advance. I really appreciate the help I receive here. I try to give as well as receive. William ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island Battery Disconnects
William, Are those the older Sunny Island 4.2 or 5kW units, or the newer 4.5 or 6kW units? Is this single-phase or three phase? The SMA BATFUSE would work, but it is not available in the US. It's not Code compliant nor UL Listed. You could use the OutBack FW1000-DC, but you are going to have a little fun doing the DC cabling and conduit. The older Islands had dual 1/0 battery terminals. The newer ones have a single 3/0 terminal. Unfortunately, those sizes are hard to find in proper flexible battery/inverter cable, mostly because it doesn't sell in enough volume for distributors to carry. It also doesn't properly match available DC breaker sizes, like 4/0 and 2/0 cable does. SMA worked directly with MidNite Solar to develop the MidNite E-Panel system for the Sunny Islands. It's what I would recommend using. For one thing, they have dealt with the DC cable and fusing size issues (and, no, you are not blind). You can run 2/0 (4.2 or 4.5kW units), or 4/0 (5 and 6kW units) to the E-Panels However, I don't know offhand if they work with the older Islands. If you are dealing with the older units, you should contact them to confirm that they will fit. If it's three-phase at 208 VAC, I also recommend that you use one of the MidNite three-phase Master units (MNE250SMA-3PH-Master) and two slaves. It has a three-phase bypass switch and color-coded bus bars for a full three-phase system. There isn't a whole lot in there that you won't likely use. The AC output on the bypass will just act as an AC main breaker. You can then run that to an external load center. Now, the distance from the battery bank issue is new. These systems have been installed for a couple of decades now with up to 12 feet between the battery and the first disconnect, breaker, or fuse. Of course, that doesn't make it right, or compliant with the 2014 Code. The industry really needs to come up with a good solution here. The Wrenches thread over the last few days about placing fuses on or near batteries shows that an easy solution is not available (or not known), at least not for flooded batteries. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of will...@millersolar.com Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 5:29 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island Battery Disconnects Friends: I am reworking an installation with 3 Sunny Island inverters. The battery leads have no disconnecting means or OCP. I have been looking for sensible hardware to provide this and I have found some options. I am interested in any input on these or ideas I have not discovered. 1. SMA BATFUSE. I am having trouble deciding which one is right for a 3 SI install. a. The B.003 appears to have fuse positions for the positive and the negative leads. I am fairly darn certain I don't want fuses in the negative leads of a negative bonded system, and although this is my first SI install, I am pretty sure this is negative bonded. Am I missing something here? b. The B.001 has only positions for two fuses as far as I can see from the manual. c. So it looks like neither will work for me. Does anyone have any experience and/or wisdom here? 2. Midnite Solar E-panels: a. The regular panel has DC and AC components. I want to control the AC elsewhere so I could order three slave units. The Midnite unit mounts right under the inverter but I would prefer to have the OCP closer to the batteries. 3. Outback: a. We could purchase an Outback FX1000 and install three breakers in it. 4. Breaker Size: a. I have started to read the manual but I have yet to find out what size breaker fuse is recommended. Have I just not found it yet? b. Also, I have not found a specification for battery cable size. Am I blind? Thanks in advance. I really appreciate the help I receive here. I try to give as well as receive. William ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP
Hi All,3 VFX 36482 FM 806.5 kw solar12 kw generatorPSX 240 on generator output and VFX stackingMate 3HUP 1690 ahSystem design considering 45 amp charge current from each VFX totaling 135 amps. (135 x ~55v = 7.42kw) Potential charge current from 2 arrays and FM 80's, 90 - 100 amps. On a good day, reasonable to expect 200+ amps?Have not been able to exceed 90 amps for more than 30 minutes, with the generator putting out about 9 kw before it's 70 amp 2pole breaker trips. L1 42 amps, L2 37 amps. 5 amps neutral. Load banked to 12.3 kw (51 amps @ 240v) resistive without breaker trip.I have had to dial back the maximum charge current in the Mate 3 to 12 amps each on two of the inverters (L1 and L2) and 8 on inverter 3 to keep the generator from tripping out when customer turns on the microwave or coffee pot. In effect, 42 amps charge @ 240 v = 7.6 kw. At the battery, I'm only seeing 80 amps of charge current. Running loads are typically less than 1 kw but there has been a of construction going on with chop saws and compressors creating annoying spikes that are easily handled by the inverters when the generator is off.I don't want to kill this new battery by not feeding it properly! I would have put in a larger generator, but the owner bought the 12 kw before deciding on the new battery. I thought the 12 would be merely adequate, but not soAny suggestions?Thanks!Bruce Fiero-RMI"I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." T. Edison, 1931___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
