[RE-wrenches] 1000V rated 6AWG wire

[Kirpal Khalsa]

Hello Friends!
I am looking for 1000v rated #6awg wire suitable for running in conduit
from roof top combiner down to the inverterwhat are others using for
this application? Ideally I would love to find some THHN or THWN-2 but with
1000v ratingany suggestions, sources?
Application is from a SolarEdge commercial optimizers based array which
puts out 850VDC
Thank you!
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 1000V rated 6AWG wire

[Matt Partymiller]

The cheapest solution I have been able to find for this over the past 12
months has been PV wire. The other problem you might find is 1000V listed
components to transition from PV wire to other types of wire.

Matt


On Thu, January 28, 2016 7:48 am, Kirpal Khalsa wrote:
> Hello Friends!
> I am looking for 1000v rated #6awg wire suitable for running in conduit
> from roof top combiner down to the inverterwhat are others using for
> this application? Ideally I would love to find some THHN or THWN-2 but
> with 1000v ratingany suggestions, sources?
> Application is from a SolarEdge commercial optimizers based array which
> puts out 850VDC Thank you!
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Matthew Partymiller
Solar Energy Solutions LLC
(877) 312-7456
m...@solar-energy-solutions.com


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers

[Jason Szumlanski]

If you are going to do it, have you considered EPDM washers instead of
plastic? Just a thought... I still wouldn't do it unless expressly endorsed
by the manufacturer and/or engineer, but EPDM seems like a better option
for longevity.

​Jason​



On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Jay  wrote:

> Ok here is the long form.
>
> Customers system is in Mexico, Baja. So I'm not concerned about legal
> issues.
> It is a custom racking design to fit his house.
> Flat concrete roof,low tilt design with extra heavy duty engineering for
> hurricanes. Easy access for future MX of all fasteners
> Owner lives on his own island in the South Pacific.
> This is his 2nd ( more?) house.
>
> He wants this. I've told him all of what you all and have said including
> that there will need to be future mx to check bolt tightness.
>
> I am going to do it for him.
> Thanks for all the advice on where to get look for the parts he's looking
> for.
>
> Jay
>
> Peltz power.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 27, 2016, at 8:56 AM, Kurt Johnsen 
> wrote:
>
> Jay,
>
> There is the consideration of voiding any engineering that is being relied
> on for your protection. If there is a failure telling the judge that you
> followed the homeowners instructions is not going to get you off the hook.
>
> Kurt
> Kurt Johnsen Energy Systems
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 9:43 AM, Peter Giroux 
> wrote:
>
>> Jay
>>
>> Please keep in mind that those plastic / synthetic washers have a
>> high probability of deteriorating over the next several years creating a
>> new set of issues.
>>
>> Peter
>> American Solar
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Conrad Geyser 
>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 27, 2016 9:36 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers
>>
>> Jay,
>>
>> I would suggest that he has a point, that the dissimilar metals do have a
>> reaction.  But that the reaction is self limiting and that stainless
>> fasteners with aluminum are used in marine applications albeit only with
>> anodized aluminum.  Or say fine and invoice accordingly for the plastic
>> washers.
>>
>> Conrad
>> Cotuit Solar
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Conrad Geyser, Principal
>> Cotuit Solar LLC
>> 508-428-8442
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Another engineer, eh?
>>>
>>> I'd say no... Tell him to find another installer. 50 million Elvis fans,
>>> I mean PV installations, can't be wrong.
>>>
>>> Ask him if he brings his own scissors to the hairdresser? That's my
>>> favorite line.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 12:37 AM, Jay  wrote:
>>>
 Hi all

 I've got a client who insists on "plastic " ( synthetic) washers
 between SS washers and the aluminum racking and modules.

 I'm tried every angle to assure him it's not a problem to no effect.

 So anybody have any recommendations about type, material, and where to
 buy?

 Thanks

 Jay
 Peltz power.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] 1000V rated 6AWG wire

[Patrick Shortell]

Hi Kirpal,
Southwire makes 1000v rated USE up to 500MCM.
Might want to oversize your conduit.
Lotsa lube.
Pat

On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 7:48 AM, Kirpal Khalsa  wrote:

> Hello Friends!
> I am looking for 1000v rated #6awg wire suitable for running in conduit
> from roof top combiner down to the inverterwhat are others using for
> this application? Ideally I would love to find some THHN or THWN-2 but with
> 1000v ratingany suggestions, sources?
> Application is from a SolarEdge commercial optimizers based array which
> puts out 850VDC
> Thank you!
>
> ___
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>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
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>


-- 
Patrick A. Shortell
*Licensed Master Electrician*
*Certified Solar Installer*
71 Oregon Street
Long Beach N.Y. 11561
cell: 516-477-0221
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers

[Starlight Solar Power Systems]

Hey Jay,

I’m still trying to picture this and had a thought: If you isolate the module 
from the rack electrically with these washers, and both are grounded, and the 
two grounds are not at the same potential (different length ground runs), you 
may be creating a path for high voltage into the array in event of a near 
lightning strike. 

Also, if the washer is between the two metals, how will you isolate the bolt 
that puts them together from not touching the sides of the holes?  Perhaps you 
need to look into non-conductive fasteners as well.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Jan 27, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Jay  wrote:

Ok here is the long form. 

Customers system is in Mexico, Baja. So I'm not concerned about legal issues. 
It is a custom racking design to fit his house. 
Flat concrete roof,low tilt design with extra heavy duty engineering for 
hurricanes. Easy access for future MX of all fasteners
Owner lives on his own island in the South Pacific. 
This is his 2nd ( more?) house. 

He wants this. I've told him all of what you all and have said including that 
there will need to be future mx to check bolt tightness. 

I am going to do it for him. 
Thanks for all the advice on where to get look for the parts he's looking for.

Jay

Peltz power. 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers

[Jay]

Hi Jason,

It's part of why I asked because I'm not sure the best material. 
I always thought of Epdm as pretty soft?

If you have a supplier let us know

Jay

> On Jan 28, 2016, at 5:00 AM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> 
> If you are going to do it, have you considered EPDM washers instead of 
> plastic? Just a thought... I still wouldn't do it unless expressly endorsed 
> by the manufacturer and/or engineer, but EPDM seems like a better option for 
> longevity.
> 
> ​Jason​
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Jay  wrote:
>> Ok here is the long form. 
>> 
>> Customers system is in Mexico, Baja. So I'm not concerned about legal 
>> issues. 
>> It is a custom racking design to fit his house. 
>> Flat concrete roof,low tilt design with extra heavy duty engineering for 
>> hurricanes. Easy access for future MX of all fasteners
>> Owner lives on his own island in the South Pacific. 
>> This is his 2nd ( more?) house. 
>> 
>> He wants this. I've told him all of what you all and have said including 
>> that there will need to be future mx to check bolt tightness. 
>> 
>> I am going to do it for him. 
>> Thanks for all the advice on where to get look for the parts he's looking 
>> for.
>> 
>> Jay
>> 
>> Peltz power. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2016, at 8:56 AM, Kurt Johnsen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Jay, 
>>> 
>>> There is the consideration of voiding any engineering that is being relied 
>>> on for your protection. If there is a failure telling the judge that you 
>>> followed the homeowners instructions is not going to get you off the hook. 
>>> 
>>> Kurt
>>> Kurt Johnsen Energy Systems
>>> 
 On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 9:43 AM, Peter Giroux  
 wrote:
 Jay
  
 Please keep in mind that those plastic / synthetic washers have a high 
 probability of deteriorating over the next several years creating a new 
 set of issues.
  
 Peter
 American Solar 
 - Original Message -
 From: Conrad Geyser
 To: RE-wrenches
 Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 9:36 AM
 Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers
 
 Jay,
 
 I would suggest that he has a point, that the dissimilar metals do have a 
 reaction.  But that the reaction is self limiting and that stainless 
 fasteners with aluminum are used in marine applications albeit only with 
 anodized aluminum.  Or say fine and invoice accordingly for the plastic 
 washers.
 
 Conrad
 Cotuit Solar
 
 
 
 
 Conrad Geyser, Principal
 Cotuit Solar LLC
 508-428-8442
 
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> Another engineer, eh?
> 
> I'd say no... Tell him to find another installer. 50 million Elvis fans, 
> I mean PV installations, can't be wrong.
> 
> Ask him if he brings his own scissors to the hairdresser? That's my 
> favorite line.
> 
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 12:37 AM, Jay  wrote:
>> Hi all
>> 
>> I've got a client who insists on "plastic " ( synthetic) washers between 
>> SS washers and the aluminum racking and modules.
>> 
>> I'm tried every angle to assure him it's not a problem to no effect.
>> 
>> So anybody have any recommendations about type, material, and where to 
>> buy?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Jay
>> Peltz power.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers

[Jay]

Hi Larry

I wasn't planning on installing anything between al and al. Just between SS and 
al. So the module will still be bolted directly to the al rack material. I'm 
not too worried about the grounding, and certainly not worried enough to 
install lay in lugs with copper to each module. 

As lones pointed out, there are parts that would insulate the bolt. 
But as the owner hasn't requested that, not going to suggest it!

I sure didn't plan on stirring the pot like this. 
Just really wanted some help on sourcing the washers

Thanks

Jay
Peltz power

> On Jan 28, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hey Jay,
> 
> I’m still trying to picture this and had a thought: If you isolate the module 
> from the rack electrically with these washers, and both are grounded, and the 
> two grounds are not at the same potential (different length ground runs), you 
> may be creating a path for high voltage into the array in event of a near 
> lightning strike. 
> 
> Also, if the washer is between the two metals, how will you isolate the bolt 
> that puts them together from not touching the sides of the holes?  Perhaps 
> you need to look into non-conductive fasteners as well.
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 27, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Jay  wrote:
> 
> Ok here is the long form. 
> 
> Customers system is in Mexico, Baja. So I'm not concerned about legal issues. 
> It is a custom racking design to fit his house. 
> Flat concrete roof,low tilt design with extra heavy duty engineering for 
> hurricanes. Easy access for future MX of all fasteners
> Owner lives on his own island in the South Pacific. 
> This is his 2nd ( more?) house. 
> 
> He wants this. I've told him all of what you all and have said including that 
> there will need to be future mx to check bolt tightness. 
> 
> I am going to do it for him. 
> Thanks for all the advice on where to get look for the parts he's looking for.
> 
> Jay
> 
> Peltz power. 
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers

[Ray Walters]

I would use a SS washer with integrated Neoprene rubber gasket.  We use 
them on roof work, and Unirac uses them under the lag on their roof 
flashings.

Image result for neoprene washers
https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers

Thanks,

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 1/28/2016 8:25 AM, Jay wrote:

Hi Larry

I wasn't planning on installing anything between al and al. Just 
between SS and al. So the module will still be bolted directly to the 
al rack material. I'm not too worried about the grounding, and 
certainly not worried enough to install lay in lugs with copper to 
each module.


As lones pointed out, there are parts that would insulate the bolt.
But as the owner hasn't requested that, not going to suggest it!

I sure didn't plan on stirring the pot like this.
Just really wanted some help on sourcing the washers

Thanks

Jay
Peltz power

On Jan 28, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems 
mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com>> wrote:



Hey Jay,

I’m still trying to picture this and had a thought: If you isolate 
the module from the rack electrically with these washers, and both 
are grounded, and the two grounds are not at the same potential 
(different length ground runs), you may be creating a path for high 
voltage into the array in event of a near lightning strike.


Also, if the washer is between the two metals, how will you isolate 
the bolt that puts them together from not touching the sides of the 
holes?  Perhaps you need to look into non-conductive fasteners as well.


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Jan 27, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Jay > wrote:


Ok here is the long form.

Customers system is in Mexico, Baja. So I'm not concerned about legal 
issues.

It is a custom racking design to fit his house.
Flat concrete roof,low tilt design with extra heavy duty engineering 
for hurricanes. Easy access for future MX of all fasteners

Owner lives on his own island in the South Pacific.
This is his 2nd ( more?) house.

He wants this. I've told him all of what you all and have said 
including that there will need to be future mx to check bolt tightness.


I am going to do it for him.
Thanks for all the advice on where to get look for the parts he's 
looking for.


Jay

Peltz power.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers

[jay]

My hesitation to that is the compressibility of the neoprene. 

One of the things I like about nylon or similar hard plastics is they don’t 
compress so you do get a ridged structure.  

jay

peltz power
> On Jan 28, 2016, at 10:15 AM, Ray Walters  wrote:
> 
> I would use a SS washer with integrated Neoprene rubber gasket.  We use them 
> on roof work, and Unirac uses them under the lag on their roof flashings. 
> 
> https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> On 1/28/2016 8:25 AM, Jay wrote:
>> Hi Larry
>> 
>> I wasn't planning on installing anything between al and al. Just between SS 
>> and al. So the module will still be bolted directly to the al rack material. 
>> I'm not too worried about the grounding, and certainly not worried enough to 
>> install lay in lugs with copper to each module. 
>> 
>> As lones pointed out, there are parts that would insulate the bolt. 
>> But as the owner hasn't requested that, not going to suggest it!
>> 
>> I sure didn't plan on stirring the pot like this. 
>> Just really wanted some help on sourcing the washers
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Jay
>> Peltz power
>> 
>> On Jan 28, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems < 
>> la...@starlightsolar.com 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hey Jay,
>>> 
>>> I’m still trying to picture this and had a thought: If you isolate the 
>>> module from the rack electrically with these washers, and both are 
>>> grounded, and the two grounds are not at the same potential (different 
>>> length ground runs), you may be creating a path for high voltage into the 
>>> array in event of a near lightning strike. 
>>> 
>>> Also, if the washer is between the two metals, how will you isolate the 
>>> bolt that puts them together from not touching the sides of the holes?  
>>> Perhaps you need to look into non-conductive fasteners as well.
>>> 
>>> Larry Crutcher
>>> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>>> 
>>> 
> 

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[RE-wrenches] Net 30 Terms scam to be aware of...

[Lou Russo]

Wrenches,

Quick heads up...I got a email ,supposedly from Ferris University in
Michigan, wanting to purchase 70 Morningstar charge controllers on net 30
terms. I quick call to the actual procurement officer ended the deal as it
was a hoax. I decided to take it a bit further and ask for references to
setup the net 30 account. They actually did. DUNS number, Local Banker and
supply houses. I didn't take it any further. When speaking to the real
procurement officer he said they have seen this before with office
equipment but recently the operation has moved on to renewable energy
equipment.

It was all pretty obvious what was happening, just thought I would spread
the word.


Aloha,

Lou Russo
l...@spreesolarsystems.com
440 345 6762
Spree Solar Systems LLC
CT-34322
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers

[Ray Walters]

We just had that same concern, but once you torque the connection down 
there was no noticeable movement.  As someone else mentioned the 
plastics can be tough to hold up to UV, temperature, compression, and 
thermal cycling.  Once that hard plastic cracks and falls out, you 
definitely will have a loose connection.


R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 1/28/2016 11:19 AM, jay wrote:

My hesitation to that is the compressibility of the neoprene.

One of the things I like about nylon or similar hard plastics is they 
don’t compress so you do get a ridged structure.


jay

peltz power
On Jan 28, 2016, at 10:15 AM, Ray Walters > wrote:


I would use a SS washer with integrated Neoprene rubber gasket. We 
use them on roof work, and Unirac uses them under the lag on their 
roof flashings.


https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers

Thanks,
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 1/28/2016 8:25 AM, Jay wrote:

Hi Larry

I wasn't planning on installing anything between al and al. Just 
between SS and al. So the module will still be bolted directly to 
the al rack material. I'm not too worried about the grounding, and 
certainly not worried enough to install lay in lugs with copper to 
each module.


As lones pointed out, there are parts that would insulate the bolt.
But as the owner hasn't requested that, not going to suggest it!

I sure didn't plan on stirring the pot like this.
Just really wanted some help on sourcing the washers

Thanks

Jay
Peltz power

On Jan 28, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems 
 wrote:



Hey Jay,

I’m still trying to picture this and had a thought: If you isolate 
the module from the rack electrically with these washers, and both 
are grounded, and the two grounds are not at the same potential 
(different length ground runs), you may be creating a path for high 
voltage into the array in event of a near lightning strike.


Also, if the washer is between the two metals, how will you isolate 
the bolt that puts them together from not touching the sides of the 
holes?  Perhaps you need to look into non-conductive fasteners as well.


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems








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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers

[Chris Mason]

Our house is on the ocean,  in the Caribbean. If you are using something
like SnapNRack,  where a stainless bolt goes through an aluminium channel
nut, use Permatex or it will seize. Other than that,  I have not seen
racking corrosion in eight years on the roof. Put all the clamps, bolts,
nuts etc, in a bucket and spray it all with Permatex anti seize. It will be
messy but very effective. You'll have fingerprints on the modules but oh,
well.
On Jan 28, 2016 2:16 PM, "Ray Walters"  wrote:

> I would use a SS washer with integrated Neoprene rubber gasket.  We use
> them on roof work, and Unirac uses them under the lag on their roof
> flashings.
> [image: Image result for neoprene washers]
> https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers
>
> Thanks,
>
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760
>
> On 1/28/2016 8:25 AM, Jay wrote:
>
> Hi Larry
>
> I wasn't planning on installing anything between al and al. Just between
> SS and al. So the module will still be bolted directly to the al rack
> material. I'm not too worried about the grounding, and certainly not
> worried enough to install lay in lugs with copper to each module.
>
> As lones pointed out, there are parts that would insulate the bolt.
> But as the owner hasn't requested that, not going to suggest it!
>
> I sure didn't plan on stirring the pot like this.
> Just really wanted some help on sourcing the washers
>
> Thanks
>
> Jay
> Peltz power
>
> On Jan 28, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems <
> la...@starlightsolar.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Jay,
>
> I’m still trying to picture this and had a thought: If you isolate the
> module from the rack electrically with these washers, and both are
> grounded, and the two grounds are not at the same potential (different
> length ground runs), you may be creating a path for high voltage into the
> array in event of a near lightning strike.
>
> Also, if the washer is between the two metals, how will you isolate the
> bolt that puts them together from not touching the sides of the holes?
> Perhaps you need to look into non-conductive fasteners as well.
>
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 27, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Jay  wrote:
>
> Ok here is the long form.
>
> Customers system is in Mexico, Baja. So I'm not concerned about legal
> issues.
> It is a custom racking design to fit his house.
> Flat concrete roof,low tilt design with extra heavy duty engineering for
> hurricanes. Easy access for future MX of all fasteners
> Owner lives on his own island in the South Pacific.
> This is his 2nd ( more?) house.
>
> He wants this. I've told him all of what you all and have said including
> that there will need to be future mx to check bolt tightness.
>
> I am going to do it for him.
> Thanks for all the advice on where to get look for the parts he's looking
> for.
>
> Jay
>
> Peltz power.
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers

[jay]

Yea its tough.  I’m trying to make sure I do it right ( whatever that is at 
this point) and what the customer wants.
I”ll check to see if this meets with his approval.  Might be the way to go. 
Thanks for the update as to it being tight.

I”m guessing here, but I can hear him say “ yes but that rubber will compress 
over time, and then we’ll have the SS washer touching the rail”
vs
what everyone else is saying “ that the plastic will fail and then it’ll be SS 
on AL anyway.  

1 step forward, 3 steps back.

jay


> On Jan 28, 2016, at 11:23 AM, Ray Walters  wrote:
> 
> We just had that same concern, but once you torque the connection down there 
> was no noticeable movement.  As someone else mentioned the plastics can be 
> tough to hold up to UV, temperature, compression, and thermal cycling.  Once 
> that hard plastic cracks and falls out, you definitely will have a loose 
> connection.
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> On 1/28/2016 11:19 AM, jay wrote:
>> My hesitation to that is the compressibility of the neoprene. 
>> 
>> One of the things I like about nylon or similar hard plastics is they don’t 
>> compress so you do get a ridged structure.  
>> 
>> jay
>> 
>> peltz power
>>> On Jan 28, 2016, at 10:15 AM, Ray Walters < 
>>> r...@solarray.com > 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I would use a SS washer with integrated Neoprene rubber gasket.  We use 
>>> them on roof work, and Unirac uses them under the lag on their roof 
>>> flashings. 
>>> 
>>> https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> R.Ray Walters
>>> CTO, Solarray, Inc
>>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
>>> Licensed Master Electrician
>>> Solar Design Engineer
>>> 303 505-8760
>>> On 1/28/2016 8:25 AM, Jay wrote:
 Hi Larry
 
 I wasn't planning on installing anything between al and al. Just between 
 SS and al. So the module will still be bolted directly to the al rack 
 material. I'm not too worried about the grounding, and certainly not 
 worried enough to install lay in lugs with copper to each module. 
 
 As lones pointed out, there are parts that would insulate the bolt. 
 But as the owner hasn't requested that, not going to suggest it!
 
 I sure didn't plan on stirring the pot like this. 
 Just really wanted some help on sourcing the washers
 
 Thanks
 
 Jay
 Peltz power
 
 On Jan 28, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems 
 mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com>> wrote:
 
> Hey Jay,
> 
> I’m still trying to picture this and had a thought: If you isolate the 
> module from the rack electrically with these washers, and both are 
> grounded, and the two grounds are not at the same potential (different 
> length ground runs), you may be creating a path for high voltage into the 
> array in event of a near lightning strike. 
> 
> Also, if the washer is between the two metals, how will you isolate the 
> bolt that puts them together from not touching the sides of the holes?  
> Perhaps you need to look into non-conductive fasteners as well.
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> 
> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers

[Gordon Woodcock]

t;>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 12:37 AM, Jay  wrote:
> >>>>>> Hi all
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I've got a client who insists on "plastic " ( synthetic) washers
> between SS washers and the aluminum racking and modules.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm tried every angle to assure him it's not a problem to no effect.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So anybody have any recommendations about type, material, and where
> to buy?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jay
> >>>>>> Peltz power.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers

[Allan Sindelar]

  
  
Chris,
As only the threads of all SS bolts need anti-seize, there's a much
neater method. Anti-seize is available in a solid twist-to-extend
tube that is neat and easy to use. One light swipe across the make
threads of each bolt - doesn't take much to prevent galling.
I checked in my toolbag - I'm holding a tube of Loctite Quickstix
Silver Grade Anti-Seize, product #37230. Probably got it through
Fastenal.
Allan


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Allan Sindelar
  al...@sindelarsolar.com
  NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive
  Energy,
  Inc.
505 780-2738 cell


 
  

On 1/28/2016 11:35 AM, Chris Mason
  wrote:


  Our house is on the ocean,  in the Caribbean. If you
are using something like SnapNRack,  where a stainless bolt goes
through an aluminium channel nut, use Permatex or it will seize.
Other than that,  I have not seen racking corrosion in eight
years on the roof. Put all the clamps, bolts, nuts etc, in a
bucket and spray it all with Permatex anti seize. It will be
messy but very effective. You'll have fingerprints on the
modules but oh, well.
  On Jan 28, 2016 2:16 PM, "Ray Walters"

wrote:

   I would use a SS washer
with integrated Neoprene rubber gasket.  We use them on roof
work, and Unirac uses them under the lag on their roof
flashings. 

https://www.copperstate.com/shop/429/neoprene-washers

Thanks,
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 1/28/2016 8:25 AM, Jay wrote:


  Hi Larry
  
  
  I wasn't planning on installing anything between al
and al. Just between SS and al. So the module will still
be bolted directly to the al rack material. I'm not too
worried about the grounding, and certainly not worried
enough to install lay in lugs with copper to each
module. 
  
  
  As lones pointed out, there are parts that would
insulate the bolt. 
  But as the owner hasn't requested that, not going to
suggest it!
  
  
  I sure didn't plan on stirring the pot like this. 
  Just really wanted some help on sourcing the washers
  
  
  Thanks
  
  
  Jay
  Peltz power
  
On Jan 28, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Starlight Solar Power
Systems 

wrote:

  
  
 Hey Jay,
  
  
  I’m still trying to picture this and had a
thought: If you isolate the module from the rack
electrically with these washers, and both are
grounded, and the two grounds are not at the same
potential (different length ground runs), you may be
creating a path for high voltage into the array in
event of a near lightning strike. 
  
  
  Also, if the washer is between the two metals,
how will you isolate the bolt that puts them
together from not touching the sides of the holes? 
Perhaps you need to look into non-conductive
fasteners as well.
  

  

  

  
Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems

  
  

  

  

  



  On Jan 27, 2016, at 6:44 PM, Jay 
wrote:
  
  

  Ok here is the long form. 
  

Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers

[Jason Szumlanski]

You can buy sheets and cut or stamp to size.
http://www.mscdirect.com/industrialtools/epdm-rubber-sheet.html
I'm sure there are pre-cut EPDM washers out there.

EPDM is routinely bonded to washers and screw flanges for fastening
brackets and metal roofing material, so I don't see why it would be too
soft for similar applications where separating metals is the goal.
Obviously you wouldn't want a 1/4" thick piece.



On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Jay  wrote:

> Hi Jason,
>
> It's part of why I asked because I'm not sure the best material.
> I always thought of Epdm as pretty soft?
>
> If you have a supplier let us know
>
> Jay
>
> On Jan 28, 2016, at 5:00 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
> If you are going to do it, have you considered EPDM washers instead of
> plastic? Just a thought... I still wouldn't do it unless expressly endorsed
> by the manufacturer and/or engineer, but EPDM seems like a better option
> for longevity.
>
> ​Jason​
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:44 PM, Jay  wrote:
>
>> Ok here is the long form.
>>
>> Customers system is in Mexico, Baja. So I'm not concerned about legal
>> issues.
>> It is a custom racking design to fit his house.
>> Flat concrete roof,low tilt design with extra heavy duty engineering for
>> hurricanes. Easy access for future MX of all fasteners
>> Owner lives on his own island in the South Pacific.
>> This is his 2nd ( more?) house.
>>
>> He wants this. I've told him all of what you all and have said including
>> that there will need to be future mx to check bolt tightness.
>>
>> I am going to do it for him.
>> Thanks for all the advice on where to get look for the parts he's looking
>> for.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> Peltz power.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 27, 2016, at 8:56 AM, Kurt Johnsen 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Jay,
>>
>> There is the consideration of voiding any engineering that is being
>> relied on for your protection. If there is a failure telling the judge that
>> you followed the homeowners instructions is not going to get you off the
>> hook.
>>
>> Kurt
>> Kurt Johnsen Energy Systems
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 9:43 AM, Peter Giroux 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> Please keep in mind that those plastic / synthetic washers have a
>>> high probability of deteriorating over the next several years creating a
>>> new set of issues.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>> American Solar
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> *From:* Conrad Geyser 
>>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 27, 2016 9:36 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Plastic washers
>>>
>>> Jay,
>>>
>>> I would suggest that he has a point, that the dissimilar metals do have
>>> a reaction.  But that the reaction is self limiting and that stainless
>>> fasteners with aluminum are used in marine applications albeit only with
>>> anodized aluminum.  Or say fine and invoice accordingly for the plastic
>>> washers.
>>>
>>> Conrad
>>> Cotuit Solar
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Conrad Geyser, Principal
>>> Cotuit Solar LLC
>>> 508-428-8442
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:02 AM, Jason Szumlanski <
>>> ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>>>
 Another engineer, eh?

 I'd say no... Tell him to find another installer. 50 million Elvis
 fans, I mean PV installations, can't be wrong.

 Ask him if he brings his own scissors to the hairdresser? That's my
 favorite line.


 Jason Szumlanski


 On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 12:37 AM, Jay  wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I've got a client who insists on "plastic " ( synthetic) washers
> between SS washers and the aluminum racking and modules.
>
> I'm tried every angle to assure him it's not a problem to no effect.
>
> So anybody have any recommendations about type, material, and where to
> buy?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jay
> Peltz power.
>
>
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>>> --

[RE-wrenches] Battery Box Construction

[Ray Walters]

Hi All;

We're looking to improve our battery box construction, and are 
considering using 1/8" think polypropylene sheeting.  I've used small 
premade boxes before, but this will be for a HUP install, and we would 
want to build the box around the batteries after.  Does anyone have 
experience/ comments on welding plastic?  The alternative would be to 
just seal the seams with acid resistant caulking. (silicone, Geocell, ?)
I've had good luck in the past just using 10 mil plastic sheeting 
stapled up on the inside of a plywood box, but we will be scooting 1000 
lb batteries around on it, so I don't think the sheeting will hold up.


Thanks,

--
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Box Construction

[Dave]

Ray,

As an option for the plywood box with the 10 mil poly lining. You can do two
layers of the poly liner and also protect it with two lengths of 1 x 3 wood
strapping on the floor of the box to support the heavy batteries and protect
the poly liner. I have done this for years with no problems. Cut the 1 x 3's
shorter than the length of your box and sand the wood completely with
special attention to rounding the corners and edges so that the wood is
smooth against the poly. Once you get one battery in place the wood
strapping does not move and you can pretty easily move the other cells into
place.  I sprinkle baking soda on the bottom of the box before installing
the cells. The plywood has held up well for twenty years or more, even with
people who add too much distilled water > and create some electrolyte
overflow upon charging. It gets a little stinky in the box then, but the
double lined poly has never failed me because it is designed right and
installed with care.

Alternatively you can use another material to protect your poly liner such
as the polypropylene sheeting that you are thinking of using to build your
box. Again, cut it smaller than your footprint of the plywood box and round
all of the edges off the sheeting material to protect the liner from being
cut.

Dave

David Palumbo 
Independent Power LLC
462 Solar Way Drive
Hyde Park, VT 05655
802-371-8678 cell
802-888-4917 home




  plywood box with the -Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2016 5:26 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Box Construction

Hi All;

We're looking to improve our battery box construction, and are considering
using 1/8" think polypropylene sheeting.  I've used small premade boxes
before, but this will be for a HUP install, and we would want to build the
box around the batteries after.  Does anyone have experience/ comments on
welding plastic?  The alternative would be to just seal the seams with acid
resistant caulking. (silicone, Geocell, ?) I've had good luck in the past
just using 10 mil plastic sheeting stapled up on the inside of a plywood
box, but we will be scooting 1000 lb batteries around on it, so I don't
think the sheeting will hold up.

Thanks,

--
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Box Construction

[Allan Sindelar]

  
  
Ray,
Just a couple of weeks ago we installed a 24V HUP set in an existing
installation. We had an existing plywood battery box made of Baltic
Birch (the 9-ply 12mm thick plywood typically used for cabinet
drawer carcases) with a liner made of 40(?)-mil pond liner material.
We removed the six cells from the steel case, set the case in place
in the plywood box and lowered the cells into it. However, the box
had a non-removable 5" wide strip across the top rear, and we needed
to slide the entire 1100 pound case back about 8" in order to fit
both steel cases.

Before setting the steel case in the box I sprayed the floor of the
pond liner with a layer of the new spray pulling lube from Klein
Tools, then set the steel case in place and lowered the cells. Using
a Porta-Power and some blocking, we slid the case into place with
little effort. 

You might find that vinyl pond liner works well in a plywood box. We
found it at a Home Depot.
Allan


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Allan Sindelar
  al...@sindelarsolar.com
  NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive
  Energy,
  Inc.
505 780-2738 cell


 
  

On 1/28/2016 3:25 PM, Ray Walters
  wrote:

Hi
  All;
  
  
  We're looking to improve our battery box construction, and are
  considering using 1/8" think polypropylene sheeting.  I've used
  small premade boxes before, but this will be for a HUP install,
  and we would want to build the box around the batteries after. 
  Does anyone have experience/ comments on welding plastic?  The
  alternative would be to just seal the seams with acid resistant
  caulking. (silicone, Geocell, ?)
  
  I've had good luck in the past just using 10 mil plastic sheeting
  stapled up on the inside of a plywood box, but we will be scooting
  1000 lb batteries around on it, so I don't think the sheeting will
  hold up.
  
  
  Thanks,
  
  


  

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Box Construction

[frenergy]

Add to the list...I've had good luck with Grace roofing underlayment: 
tough and to a degree, self-healing, sticks to itself (and anything it 
comes in contact with) very well making seams secure, easy to find at 
building supply store, sticks aggressively to battery box sides without 
mechanical fasteners, experience has shown it resists acid.  As with 
other solutions, something to uniformly distribute the weight and 
irregular bottoms of batteries should be employed.


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
www.frenergy.net



On 1/28/2016 5:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:

Ray,
Just a couple of weeks ago we installed a 24V HUP set in an existing 
installation. We had an existing plywood battery box made of Baltic 
Birch (the 9-ply 12mm thick plywood typically used for cabinet drawer 
carcases) with a liner made of 40(?)-mil pond liner material. We 
removed the six cells from the steel case, set the case in place in 
the plywood box and lowered the cells into it. However, the box had a 
non-removable 5" wide strip across the top rear, and we needed to 
slide the entire 1100 pound case back about 8" in order to fit both 
steel cases.


Before setting the steel case in the box I sprayed the floor of the 
pond liner with a layer of the new spray pulling lube from Klein 
Tools, then set the steel case in place and lowered the cells. Using a 
Porta-Power and some blocking, we slid the case into place with little 
effort.


You might find that vinyl pond liner works well in a plywood box. We 
found it at a Home Depot.

Allan

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

**

On 1/28/2016 3:25 PM, Ray Walters wrote:

Hi All;

We're looking to improve our battery box construction, and are 
considering using 1/8" think polypropylene sheeting.  I've used small 
premade boxes before, but this will be for a HUP install, and we 
would want to build the box around the batteries after. Does anyone 
have experience/ comments on welding plastic?  The alternative would 
be to just seal the seams with acid resistant caulking. (silicone, 
Geocell, ?)
I've had good luck in the past just using 10 mil plastic sheeting 
stapled up on the inside of a plywood box, but we will be scooting 
1000 lb batteries around on it, so I don't think the sheeting will 
hold up.


Thanks,





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Re: [RE-wrenches] fusing requirement for 4 strings run to a Inverter with 2 MPPT's

[don]

While Brian T.  is correct that fusing is not required for string-to-string overcurrent protection with two strings into two channels, there is another reason to require fusing. Transformerless inverters like Fronius Primo have no transformer to provide AC-DC isolation, so a ground fault can allow excessive AC current from AC neutral to enter the DC side and fry inverter components. Transformerless inverters need fuses on both DC 
positive and DC negative legs to protect the inverter in case of ground 
fault. This is why both DC+ and DC- are switched and PV wire is 
required for DC connections-- to protect 
the inverters, not just the PV modules.  This is  also why SMA, for example, no longer has any fuses in their disconnect switches but requires a separate fused DC combiner box with fuses for both positive and negative circuits. I have had inverter damage with another inverter brand that only had fuses for the DC+. They now provide fuses on both legs. Don BarchEnergy Solar
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2016 17:31:22 -0800
From: Brian Teitelbaum 
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] fusing requirement for 4 strings run to a
	Inverter with 2 MPPT's
Message-ID: <7b344022a97655195ced29e564a31...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Al,



As long as you only have a max of two strings going into each of the
separate MPPT channels, no string fusing is needed. So with four strings,
two on each MPPT input channel in the inverter, no string fusing is needed.
This is one of the big advantages to having multiple MPPT channels in GT
inverters.



No need to run separate conduits either. All four PV string circuits can be
run in a single conduit, as long as the conduit is properly sized for wire
fill, of course.





Brian Teitelbaum

AEE Solar





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Allen Frishman
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 27, 2016 6:12 AM
*To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] fusing requirement for 4 strings run to a Inverter
with 2 MPPT's



Wrenchers,

What is the requirement for fusing 2 strings per MPPT? Specifically for
an inverter like the Fronius Primo that has no integrated fuses.If you
run 2 strings to each MPPT do you need to fuse each string?In this case
there is a total of 4 strings which would need to be fused if using a
single mppt.



If the home runs are run in separate conduits from the array to limit the
strings in the conduit to 2 per you still have all 4 strings together in
the inverter.



All thoughts and feedback are appreciated.

*Al Frishman*
AeonSolar

*(917) 699-6641 <%28917%29%20699-6641> - cell*
*(888) 460-2867 <%2%29%20460-2867>*
*www.aeonsolar.com www.aeonsolar.com/>*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Box Construction

[Ray Walters]

Thanks for all the replies so far.  I've tried foundation waterproofing 
membrane for a couple of years, but found it will deteriorate in high 
acid concentrations.  IT gets all gooey and begins to dissolve.  It had 
peel N stick adhesive, and seemed like a good idea, until later.  (it 
was HDPE?)
I've seen construction 10 mil plastic sheeting hold a gal of acid for 
many months, so I know that at least works for acid.


The pond liner looks good as well as Roy's wall plastic, but the 1/8" 
polypropylene would seem to be possibly more durable for about the same 
$$.  Plastic welding looks relatively easy with a heat gun and special 
tip on a soldering iron, too.  I'll report back on what we actually do.


As always thanks for the input, and I welcome all further comments. I 
feel battery enclosures are a somewhat neglected part of off grid design.


R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 1/28/2016 7:06 PM, frenergy wrote:
Add to the list...I've had good luck with Grace roofing underlayment: 
tough and to a degree, self-healing, sticks to itself (and anything it 
comes in contact with) very well making seams secure, easy to find at 
building supply store, sticks aggressively to battery box sides 
without mechanical fasteners, experience has shown it resists acid.  
As with other solutions, something to uniformly distribute the weight 
and irregular bottoms of batteries should be employed.


Bill
Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
www.frenergy.net


On 1/28/2016 5:35 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:

Ray,
Just a couple of weeks ago we installed a 24V HUP set in an existing 
installation. We had an existing plywood battery box made of Baltic 
Birch (the 9-ply 12mm thick plywood typically used for cabinet drawer 
carcases) with a liner made of 40(?)-mil pond liner material. We 
removed the six cells from the steel case, set the case in place in 
the plywood box and lowered the cells into it. However, the box had a 
non-removable 5" wide strip across the top rear, and we needed to 
slide the entire 1100 pound case back about 8" in order to fit both 
steel cases.


Before setting the steel case in the box I sprayed the floor of the 
pond liner with a layer of the new spray pulling lube from Klein 
Tools, then set the steel case in place and lowered the cells. Using 
a Porta-Power and some blocking, we slid the case into place with 
little effort.


You might find that vinyl pond liner works well in a plywood box. We 
found it at a Home Depot.

Allan

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

**

On 1/28/2016 3:25 PM, Ray Walters wrote:

Hi All;

We're looking to improve our battery box construction, and are 
considering using 1/8" think polypropylene sheeting.  I've used 
small premade boxes before, but this will be for a HUP install, and 
we would want to build the box around the batteries after.  Does 
anyone have experience/ comments on welding plastic?  The 
alternative would be to just seal the seams with acid resistant 
caulking. (silicone, Geocell, ?)
I've had good luck in the past just using 10 mil plastic sheeting 
stapled up on the inside of a plywood box, but we will be scooting 
1000 lb batteries around on it, so I don't think the sheeting will 
hold up.


Thanks,





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Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePO4; WAS Availability of Powerwall Batteries

[don]

Thanks for sharing your experience with these batteries, Dan.I have similar SOC issues with an off-grid customer who has the Aquion Hybrid Ion batteries.It has difficulty reaching full charge from solar, requiring the genny to kick on each morning even in the summer.This is even worse in cold winter weather.Your explanation of the change in Peukert's exponent above 80% SOC with NiFe batteries sounds like what is happening here as well. Do you have any experience with Aquion batteries that you can share?ThanksDon Barch Energy Solar d...@energysolarnow.com
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2016 15:51:26 -0700
From: Dan Fink 
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] LiFePO4; WAS Availability of Powerwall
	Batteries
Message-ID:
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hello Mark;
My NiFes went in last March, I'm almost at a year living with them off the
grid.
To avoid writing a novel here I'll group my comments into Oddities,
Advantages and Disadvantages.

Advantages:
~ at least 25 year lifespan
~ 10 year warranty
~ Can add more parallel strings at any time/age, just drain and replace
electrolyte of old batteries
~ 80% depth of discharge no problem, so can size smaller amp-hour capacity

Oddities:
~ alkaline electrolyte, neutralize spills and clean tops with white vinegar
~ Specific gravity of electrolyte does not change with state of charge so a
hydrometer is useless
~ Charge / discharge efficiency changes greatly with state of charge.
Sometimes my Magnum ME-BMK amp hour meter matches the Midnite Whizbang Jr
exactly, sometimes they are way off from each other. For ground truth, the
state of charge vs. voltage curve from the battery manufacturer seems right
on, not counting false readings when the batteries are not at rest for a
couple hours.
~ Fooling PV MPPT charge controllers into dealing with NiFes involves
setting a very long and high Absorb voltage
~ Charge efficiency is great up to 80% state of charge, but after that
drops way off. Above 80% SOC these batteries want to see 1.65v per cell to
really fill up. No problem for modern MPPT PV controllers, but-
~ Some inverter / chargers (Magnum here) freak out and shut down at 1.6v
per cell, so the solution from the battery manufacturer is-
~ Run fewer cells during times of year when charging is frequent from the
generator, put the extra cells back in the string during times of year when
the charging is mostly PV. Sitting uncharged does not damage these "extra"
cells.
~ So I am running a 10.8v battery bank right now, will bring it back to 12v
this spring. No big deal, but does affect inverter surge capacity. Would
not be as much of a problem at 24v or 48v.
~

Disadvantages:
~ The high Absorb voltage to get that last 20% SOC efficiently bubbles
through a lot of distilled water. My schedule is 1-2 gallons every 40 days,
and the company sends a reminder email at that interval.
~ The bubbling gets the tops dirty fast. A cleaning every 40 days is about
right.
~ High cost
~ Twiddling with string voltages semi-annually. This would not be an issue
if most charging is from PV.

My thoughts:
My overall impression of being married to NiFes way off the grid has so far
been favorable.In a grid standby situation, I think string voltage
twiddling would be a non-issue, who cares about the last 20% of SOC charge
efficiency in that situation? Off the grid with daily cycling, generator
use, etc, I would not consider these to be batteries for off-grid
beginners. But anyone who has been off grid for a few years with lead acid
batteries will immediately appreciate the advantages and only occasionally
curse the quirks of Nife.
Plans here: Increase my PV by about 30%. Cheap and easy, no more taking
cells in and out of the string, and less winter generator run time. Get 'em
to 80% on genny during tough snowbound times and let PV do the rest. Figure
out some Arduino solution for monitoring when Peukert's exponent changes
depending on SOC. Complain to inverter/charger manufacturers to make them
work better with NiFe.

Best regards;

Dan Fink
Adjunct Professor, Ecotech Institute
IREC Certified Instructor? for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
Executive Director, Buckville Energy
NABCEP Accredited Continuing Education Providers?
970.672.4342







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