Re: [RE-wrenches] After market SMA TL inverter shade covers

[Peter Giroux]

Andrew

  We had some problems last year with some of the fronius primos leaking in 
rain / wind conditions. Customer had a local shop tig weld an aluminum shell / 
box that went around the unit. Had a shelf at the top that stuck out like the 
brim of a hat. Worked great. We had also looked for something and this custom 
made box was reasonably priced, looked great and solved the leaking issue. If 
you want pictures let me know.

Peter Giroux
American Solar
Roswell Ga
678-525-0468


  - Original Message - 
  From: Solar Energy Solutions 
  To: RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 3:01 PM
  Subject: [RE-wrenches] After market SMA TL inverter shade covers


  Has anyone used or had success with any kind of a shade cover?.. specifically 
for the SMA TL inverters?  We have one that is going to get hit by the sun 
pretty good.


  Thanks!


  Andrew Koyaanisqatsi
  President
  Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.
  The BRIGHT CHOICE

  Since 1987, helping you and your Portland neighbors
  move towards an environmentally sustainable future.
  503-238-4502
  www.SolarEnergyOregon.com 


--


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Re: [RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question

[Allan Sindelar]

Jerry, it is for off grid, but that's not synonymous with non permitted. 
This is a house being built with standard permits. Unlisted modules are 
only appropriate for "unpermitted owner-built homes too remote to be 
discovered by the AHJs". It's a specific category of its own.


We have determined that the specific TUV label on these modules isn't 
valid in the US. Buyer beware! $.60/watt!

Allan

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

**

On 8/26/2016 1:11 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:


Wrenches
No UL or ETL they sould like for off grid non permitted non warranty 
systems, years ago they used to be called "red label"

Jerry




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Re: [RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question

[Brian Teitelbaum]

Hi Allan,



TUV is now an accepted NRTL, but the equipment still has to Listed to
applicable UL Standards to mean anything. Testing only to European
standards doesn’t cut it here.



“CE” is meaningless here also.



Brian Teitelbaum

AEE Solar



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Allan Sindelar
*Sent:* Friday, August 26, 2016 11:56 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question



Wrenches,
And now for something completely different... are TUV Rheinland or CE
module certifications valid yet in the US?

I was called to consult for an off grid client who had purchased 40 250W
generic Chinese modules through a friend who got them on Ebay... yeah,
right. I got to be the one to tell him that I didn't think his $6,000
purchase ($.60/watt) could be used in a permitted/inspected system, as the
modules lacked the proper NRTL certification on the label. I sure hope for
his sake that I'm wrong, and I said I would ask here.

These are Qunsheng New Energy, model QS-250P. No UL, ETL, CSA
certification, just the ones above plus ISO.

Where can one find a list of NRTLs?

Thank you,
Allan

-- 

*Allan Sindelar*
*al...@sindelarsolar.com* 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question

[Jerry Shafer]

Wrenches
No UL or ETL they sould like for off grid non permitted non warranty
systems, years ago they used to be called "red label"
Jerry

On Aug 26, 2016 8:56 AM, "Allan Sindelar"  wrote:

> Wrenches,
> And now for something completely different... are TUV Rheinland or CE
> module certifications valid yet in the US?
>
> I was called to consult for an off grid client who had purchased 40 250W
> generic Chinese modules through a friend who got them on Ebay... yeah,
> right. I got to be the one to tell him that I didn't think his $6,000
> purchase ($.60/watt) could be used in a permitted/inspected system, as the
> modules lacked the proper NRTL certification on the label. I sure hope for
> his sake that I'm wrong, and I said I would ask here.
>
> These are Qunsheng New Energy, model QS-250P. No UL, ETL, CSA
> certification, just the ones above plus ISO.
>
> Where can one find a list of NRTLs?
>
> Thank you,
> Allan
> --
>
> *Allan Sindelar*
> al...@sindelarsolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> *505 780-2738 <505%20780-2738> cell*
>
>
>
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[RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question

[Isaac Opalinsky]

Allan,

OSHA maintains the list of NRTL’s: 
https://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/nrtllist.html.

TUV Rheinland is included, but CE is not a NRTL – it is a manufacturer’s 
declaration of conformity (literally translated is European Conformity) to 
European requirements for product conformity.  As a manufacturers’ declaration, 
it is not a third party certification.  I’d stay away from products that are 
CE, and not UL, TUV, CSA, etc.

Isaac Opalinsky | Technical Sales
77 Rio Robles, San Jose, CA 95134 | office 443-569-3476 | mobile 443-277-6286 | 
isaac.opalin...@sunpower.com
[sp_2014_logo_black_orange_CMYK-01]
IREC Certified Master Instructor | IREC_10055_AM_PV


From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Allan Sindelar
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 2:56 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question

Wrenches,
And now for something completely different... are TUV Rheinland or CE module 
certifications valid yet in the US?

I was called to consult for an off grid client who had purchased 40 250W 
generic Chinese modules through a friend who got them on Ebay... yeah, right. I 
got to be the one to tell him that I didn't think his $6,000 purchase 
($.60/watt) could be used in a permitted/inspected system, as the modules 
lacked the proper NRTL certification on the label. I sure hope for his sake 
that I'm wrong, and I said I would ask here.

These are Qunsheng New Energy, model QS-250P. No UL, ETL, CSA certification, 
just the ones above plus ISO.

Where can one find a list of NRTLs?

Thank you,
Allan
--

Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell


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[RE-wrenches] After market SMA TL inverter shade covers

[Solar Energy Solutions]

Has anyone used or had success with any kind of a shade cover?.. specifically 
for the SMA TL inverters?  We have one that is going to get hit by the sun 
pretty good.
Thanks!  Andrew KoyaanisqatsiPresidentSolar Energy Solutions, Inc.
The BRIGHT CHOICE
Since 1987, helping you and your Portland neighbors
move towards an environmentally sustainable future.503-238-4502
www.SolarEnergyOregon.com ___
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[RE-wrenches] NRTL certification question

[Allan Sindelar]

Wrenches,
And now for something completely different... are TUV Rheinland or CE 
module certifications valid yet in the US?


I was called to consult for an off grid client who had purchased 40 250W 
generic Chinese modules through a friend who got them on Ebay... yeah, 
right. I got to be the one to tell him that I didn't think his $6,000 
purchase ($.60/watt) could be used in a permitted/inspected system, as 
the modules lacked the proper NRTL certification on the label. I sure 
hope for his sake that I'm wrong, and I said I would ask here.


These are Qunsheng New Energy, model QS-250P. No UL, ETL, CSA 
certification, just the ones above plus ISO.


Where can one find a list of NRTLs?

Thank you,
Allan
--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

**

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Low array voltage stumper on legacy system

[Allan Sindelar]

Mike,
Jay's suggestion to turn off string three, the low one, is good. Plus I 
can guide the homeowner by phone, thus avoiding the cost of another site 
visit, so that adds appeal.


I just spoke with him. While he lacks the DMM and DC amp clamp, he is 
going to record V and I in and out for each string, using the MX60 
display as his data source. I'll post any noteworthy results here. We're 
in monsoon season (afternoon cloud buildup and thunderstorms) so it may 
not be for a few days.


Re Jerry's comments: I think that you mean an I/V curve tracer test, 
rather than Solmetric, right? That's not a tool I have or will get for 
my current work, but it's a good idea, thanks. The client and I are 
pretty much in agreement that we're dealing with serious browning - 
indeed, more than I have ever seen with BP 75W modules of this vintage 
(my own home's 18 BP590 modules of similar age show very little browning 
and about 15% degradation, rather than 50%) and aren't worth the cost of 
a whole bunch of testing. Mostly, we're looking for any specific and 
correctable cause, as we have one spare matching module in storage, and 
I also simply posted to seek answers as to why the Vmp was so low.


Jerry, it was selling, so the voltage would be held around the sell 
level of 26.4V. The inverter is set to the default sell AC amps, 35A as 
I recall and the MX60 is defaulted to 60A output, so they aren't causing 
any restrictions. The batteries are known to be used up - indeed, we 
want to better understand the array issue in order to help determine 
whether to replace the SunXtender AGMs for backup power or just leave 
the system in a state of benign neglect. The client is considering our 
suggestion to install a separate grid-tied batteryless system once he 
has lived in the home for a year or so to determine consumption. This 
legacy system would pretty much just be backup, as with hardware that 
old a new array as well as batteries is hard to justify.


Thank you to all. More to come later if we learn anything worth sharing.
Allan

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

**

On 8/26/2016 10:14 AM, Mike Kocsmiersky wrote:


Your measurements of the Isc for the four stings seems to be odd in 
string 3 with only 2.4A.  However, when you measure the circuit under 
load, you are getting 14.6A from all 4 strings, which averages 3.65A.  
I’d say check that string again, perhaps the current clamp wasn’t 
zeroed or something.


First I would try reading the MPPT voltage and current for each string 
individually connected to the load.  If one of the strings had a bad 
diode, I’m not sure it would show up in a Voc test.  Perhaps a bad 
bypass diode could give the MPPT algorithm a difficult time finding 
the MPPT of the array, and it gets stuck on curve of the one string 
that has a bad diode.


Also, it could be more of an issue with the MPPT controller thinking 
the array is a 24V Array, or some other controller failure.  I would 
look there.


Mike Kocsmiersky

Principal

Phone: 413 883-3144

*Spirit Solar*


Can you do a solmetric type test, when you performed the amp test the 
volts were at near "0" so the test does not show an accurate value, you 
said the modules are brown this is not good but are they checked because 
if so you are done needs new modules. I would suggest doing some 
additional testing, is it selling, and at what amount, whats going into 
or out of the batteries at that time, what inverter is it, trace 24 I 
would assume, if it is selling is the inverter capable of selling more 
than it is or is at the limit, I need more numbers to get a better 
understanding if there is even a problem. You can adjust "Sell" down to 
perform a test and see if the DC climbs, also you can set the MX amp 
down too.

Jerry
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grundfos SQ. power curves

[Jay]

Hi all

I'm not looking for the SQFLEX but the SQ. 

Thanks 
Jay. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 26, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Allan Sindelar  wrote:
> 
> 
> Allan Sindelar
> al...@sindelarsolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> 505 780-2738 cell
> 
>  
>> On 8/26/2016 8:56 AM, Jay wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>> I can't find Grundfos SQ  power curves, any ideas of where or anybody have 
>> them
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Jay
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Low array voltage stumper on legacy system

[Mike Kocsmiersky]

Your measurements of the Isc for the four stings seems to be odd in string 3
with only 2.4A.  However, when you measure the circuit under load, you are
getting 14.6A from all 4 strings, which averages 3.65A.  I’d say check that
string again, perhaps the current clamp wasn’t zeroed or something.

First I would try reading the MPPT voltage and current for each string
individually connected to the load.  If one of the strings had a bad diode,
I’m not sure it would show up in a Voc test.  Perhaps a bad bypass diode
could give the MPPT algorithm a difficult time finding the MPPT of the
array, and it gets stuck on curve of the one string that has a bad diode.

 

Also, it could be more of an issue with the MPPT controller thinking the
array is a 24V Array, or some other controller failure.  I would look there.

 

Mike Kocsmiersky

Principal

Phone: 413 883-3144 

Spirit Solar

www.SpiritSolar.net

 

 

From: Allan Sindelar [mailto:al...@sindelarsolar.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 2:12 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Low array voltage stumper on legacy system

 

Steve,
Yes, in the same sequence: 75.5V, 73.8V, 73.9V, 74.0V. All just about what
I'd expect.

Brian,
I have seen that with KC120s over the years - good Voc and Isc but no MPP.
That's a known failure that Kyocera (to their credit) continues to warrant
15 years out. But I haven't seen it with the many 75W BPs we installed in
that same time period. So it's possible, but unlikely, especially with all
four strings behaving in a similar manner.
Thank you. I'm off on field work now, will respond to any more replies
tomorrow.

Allan




On 8/25/2016 8:24 AM, Steve Bell wrote:

Hello Allan, 

 

Did you check the Voc of each string?  Is it possible that there could one
or more shorted bypass diodes in the modules?

 

Just a thought.

 

Steve Bell

Morningstar tech support

 

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Allan Sindelar 
wrote:

Wrenches,
Here's one I haven't seen before. 1997 grid-tie battery backup system that
was one of my first, although actual installation was by another before I
was licensed. 16 BP 275, 36-cell 12V modules, the standard of that time.
Early Outback MX60 replaced C40 around 2005; array rewired to four 48V
strings of four modules at that time, serving a 24V battery bank. Tested
with an end-of-life 9-year-old AGM battery bank in the system, but in Sell
mode with a 26.4V Sell voltage setpoint.

At 11 am, 68ºF, 900W/m2 on the Daystar, with the array under charge, I
measured 3.5A, 3.4A, 2.4A, and 3.6A. Short-circuiting each string, I
measured 4.0A, 3.7A, 3.8A, and 3.7A. Original rating was 4.45A, so except
for the third string, current is what I'd reasonably expect from 20-year-old
module degradation. However, watching the periodic MPPT sweep from the MX60
at the array, the maximum power point voltage for the entire 48V array
settled at 14.6A at 37.2V, or about 540 watts from a 1,200W (originally
rated) array.

I have commonly seen the current reduce substantially with age-related
degradation, while the MPP voltage remains fairly close to original. I have
never seen the voltage drop this far - an average of 9.3V MPP per each 12V
module. All of the cells are seriously browned. I have other systems out
there with the same modules of similar age that don't exhibit this weird
behavior. Can anyone help me understand why the MPP voltage would drop so
far below what is typical?

There is a slight possibility of corroded buried input conductors, because
of a serious but corrected issue of galvanic corrosion from a ground fault
(a Romex connector pinching a conductor and allowing seepage to ground).
This was corrected years ago, but the input conductors were direct burial
for ~100' and there was never a bonding conductor between the array and the
house, so there is a potential for corrosion damage. However, the voltage
measured at both ends while charging was identical, so I think that would
indicate that high conductor resistance isn't the issue.

As usual, thank you for the collective and individual wisdom shared here.
Allan

-- 

Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738   cell

 


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[RE-wrenches] Grundfos SQ. power curves

[Jay]

> Hi all,

I can't find Grundfos SQ  power curves, any ideas of where or anybody have them

Thanks

Jay
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[RE-wrenches] Fwd: Schneider Electric possible quality issue affecting the Conext SW 4048

[Tump]

FYI dated 8/25/16  CSW4048 - AC output over voltage, unit is faulting with a 
F02 during load

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> 
>> Sorry for the delayed reply, I have been extremely busy today, I also tried 
>> calling you directly, I left a VM with the case notes and my contact 
>> information. 
>> 
>> I was able to work with our engineering team about this issue and this is 
>> there reply. 
>> 
>> Schneider Electric Solar has identified a possible quality issue affecting 
>> the Conext SW 4048.As a result of this quality issue, the Subject Inverter 
>> while operating may experience an issue in the power board that renders the 
>> unit permanently inoperable. In rare instances this quality issue could 
>> result in smoke and combustive material exiting through the ventilation 
>> openings of the Subject Inverter enclosure. This quality issue does not 
>> constitute a direct safety concern, but may cause property damage to the 
>> area immediately adjacent to the unit. 
>> 
>> Schneider Electric believes that this quality issue is isolated to those 
>> Subject Inverters that are connected to either a grid or generator input. 
>> Since Schneider Electric has neither experienced nor
>> become aware of any such quality issue with the Subject Inverter operating 
>> in an off‐grid without generator applications. As a precaution and as a 
>> service to our valued customer base, Schneider Electric recommends the 
>> below‐described intervention along with the support from its re-sellers 
>> and/or distributors for purposes of addressing this quality issue as follows:
>> 
>> Immediate Action:
>> Schneider Electric anticipates releasing an updated firmware on or about 
>> 30th August 2016 for purposes of alleviating this quality issue so that the 
>> Subject Inverters affected by this quality issue may be upgraded with new 
>> firmware. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you
>> 
>> 
>> Case Reference #:30831138
>> 
>> Question: 
>> CSW4048 - AC output overvoltage
>> 
>> Customer called to report an issue with this unit - unit is faulting with a 
>> F02 during load
>>  
>> 
>> Date Created: 8/23/2016 
>> 
>> 
>> For all correspondence regarding this issue, please make sure to leave the 
>> ID number [] in the subject line or body of the email. 
>> _
>> Schneider Electric | Technical Support | Solar Solution 
>> Phone: (650) 351-8237 | Toll Free Phone: (866) 519-1470 | Fax: (604) 
>> 422-2756 
>> Email: re.techsupp...@schneider-electric.com 
>>  | Site: 
>> www.schneider-electric.com/solar 
>> 
>> How am I doing?  Please email my manager with any feedback at Email: 
>> jim.hou...@schneider-electric.com 
>> 
>> 
>> *** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, 
>> is for the sole use of any recipient(s) and may contain confidential and 
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>> contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original 
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>> ref:_00DA0abSm._50012bHR4t:ref
> 

> t...@swnl.net 
>   
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Low array voltage stumper on legacy system

[Allan Sindelar]

Steve,
Yes, in the same sequence: 75.5V, 73.8V, 73.9V, 74.0V. All just about 
what I'd expect.


Brian,
I have seen that with KC120s over the years - good Voc and Isc but no 
MPP. That's a known failure that Kyocera (to their credit) continues to 
warrant 15 years out. But I haven't seen it with the many 75W BPs we 
installed in that same time period. So it's possible, but unlikely, 
especially with all four strings behaving in a similar manner.
Thank you. I'm off on field work now, will respond to any more replies 
tomorrow.


Allan

On 8/25/2016 8:24 AM, Steve Bell wrote:

Hello Allan,

Did you check the Voc of each string?  Is it possible that there could 
one or more shorted bypass diodes in the modules?


Just a thought.

Steve Bell
Morningstar tech support

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 8:04 AM, Allan Sindelar 
> wrote:


Wrenches,
Here's one I haven't seen before. 1997 grid-tie battery backup
system that was one of my first, although actual installation was
by another before I was licensed. 16 BP 275, 36-cell 12V modules,
the standard of that time. Early Outback MX60 replaced C40 around
2005; array rewired to four 48V strings of four modules at that
time, serving a 24V battery bank. Tested with an end-of-life
9-year-old AGM battery bank in the system, but in Sell mode with a
26.4V Sell voltage setpoint.

At 11 am, 68ºF, 900W/m^2 on the Daystar, with the array under
charge, I measured 3.5A, 3.4A, 2.4A, and 3.6A. Short-circuiting
each string, I measured 4.0A, 3.7A, 3.8A, and 3.7A. Original
rating was 4.45A, so except for the third string, current is what
I'd reasonably expect from 20-year-old module degradation.
However, watching the periodic MPPT sweep from the MX60 at the
array, the maximum power point voltage for the entire 48V array
settled at 14.6A at 37.2V, or about 540 watts from a 1,200W
(originally rated) array.

I have commonly seen the current reduce substantially with
age-related degradation, while the MPP voltage remains fairly
close to original. I have never seen the voltage drop this far -
an average of 9.3V MPP per each 12V module. All of the cells are
seriously browned. I have other systems out there with the same
modules of similar age that don't exhibit this weird behavior. Can
anyone help me understand why the MPP voltage would drop so far
below what is typical?

There is a slight possibility of corroded buried input conductors,
because of a serious but corrected issue of galvanic corrosion
from a ground fault (a Romex connector pinching a conductor and
allowing seepage to ground). This was corrected years ago, but the
input conductors were direct burial for ~100' and there was never
a bonding conductor between the array and the house, so there is a
potential for corrosion damage. However, the voltage measured at
both ends while charging was identical, so I think that would
indicate that high conductor resistance isn't the issue.

As usual, thank you for the collective and individual wisdom
shared here.
Allan
-- 


*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738  cell*


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