Re: [RE-wrenches] EMP and PV modules

[Ray]

I've been dealing with a few customers with EMP concerns.  Just as we 
had to deal with the non-event of Y2K,  I think its extremely important 
to not exaggerate.  Saying that we will be back to the "Stone Age" is 
just not an accurate statement and contributes to the hype.  We've only 
had electronics for less than a century.  I think it might be more 
accurate to say we would be back to the 1950s, and that is definitely 
not the Stone Age. (maybe the Rolling Stones age?)


When it comes to fear, misinformation, and hype, you are either part of 
the problem, or you are part of the solution.  I've spent time recently 
in places in Puerto Rico, where the grid has been down for over 9 
months.  No cannibalism, no anarchy, no stone age.  Instead I saw 
neighbors helping each other, everyone trying to get by, but still 
remaining basically civil.  If we do have a big EMP event, we will deal 
with it and get back in action, in months, not centuries.


I always reiterate this fact: Electricity is not essential to Life.  
(cue the collective gasps from my fellow electricians) We might 
actually get off our stupid phones long enough to look around and enjoy 
ourselves too.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 6/18/18 11:28 AM, Jerry Shafer wrote:

Wrenches
Hawaii was hit in the mid last century by a EMP, it took out most of 
Honolulu, this was a post war test and it did confirm what can happen. 
This was before micro electronics so if it happens we,re back to the 
stone ages.


On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 10:21 AM > wrote:


inverters and charge controllers are another story.

todd



On Monday, June 18, 2018 10:10am, "Jerry Shafer"
mailto:jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>> said:

Wrenches
Consider distance first EMP's may damage the baypass diodes but
per the testing we have submitted to the military there was no
damage to the cells modules
Jerry

On Jun 18, 2018 10:01 AM, "Jeremy Rodriguez"
mailto:allsolarjer...@msn.com>> wrote:

I’ve done a quick search of the archives, but does anyone know
of the the effects of an EMP PULSE on a module? We’ve got a
potentially large project to look forward to, and one
developer is very concerned

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar installation / Design Expert
All Solar, Inc.
1463 M St
Penrose Colorado 81240
Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs

[Glenn Burt]

NEC 250.4(A)4 Also states that normally non-current-carrying electrically 
conductive materials that are likely to become energized shall be connected 
together and to the electrical supply source in a manner that establishes an 
effective ground-fault current path.

 

So the logic goes if an array develops a ground fault, and the faulted 
conductor contacts a metal roof surface, there is a possibility that the roof 
may become energized. So for many reasons, bond the roof to ground.

 

-Glenn

Renewable Energy Engineer – Cadmus

Principal Engineer – Power Guru

Principal – glb, Consulting Company

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
br...@willpowerelect.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 1:42 PM
To: RE-wrenches ; AE Solar 

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs

 

NEC 690.47 (A) requires the array to be grounded, not necessarily the roof. If 
you have bonded the rails and modules and your grounding conductor goes back to 
the service you should be good. 690.47 (B) allows installation of an auxiliary 
grounding electrode (ground rod or building steel). Not a bad idea in lightning 
prone areas. ;) Local AHJ may have different opinions.

 

Bruce Fiero-RMI

 



 

"Energizing the Rogue Valley"

 

4115 S Pacific Hwy

Medford, OR 97501

 

P: 541.535.3965
F: 541.512.0061
E: br...@willpowerelect.com  
W: Willpower Electric, LLC   

 

CCB 191852
Oregon Electrical Contractor C681
NABCEP Certified Solar (PV) Installer 031409-38

DUNS 191470363 

Energy Trust of Oregon Trade Ally Solar (PV) Installation & Energy Efficient 
Commercial Lighting Programs  


 

**This email may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or 
otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the 
addressee, or if it appears that you have received this email in error, please 
advise me immediately by reply email, keep the contents confidential, and 
immediately delete the message and any attachments from your system. 

 

 

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs
From: "glenn.b...@glbcc.com  " 
mailto:glenn.b...@glbcc.com> >
Date: Sun, June 17, 2018 6:17 pm
To: AE Solar mailto:autonomousenerg...@gmail.com> >
Cc: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >

Depends on the seam profile. Same device may be used in many cases. We have 
Also drilled and used the standard direct burial lugs on the underside of the 
pans, at the wave when they hang over enough to get working space. Then a 
horizontal run of copper wire to connect.

 

Don't be lulled into thinking that S-5 clamps are listed for grounding roof 
pans - they are not. They are only listed for module bonding to ground.

 

Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typos.

 

-- Original message--

From: AE Solar

Date: Sun, Jun 17, 2018 8:46 PM

To: glenn.b...@glbcc.com  ;

Cc: RE-wrenches;

Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs

 

thanks glenn. and what about commercial? anyone have code references regarding 
grounding when doing solar on metal roofs? i thought a few years back there was 
a conversation on this but i can't seem to find it.




Adam Katzman
Autonomous Energies
PO Box 1245

Kingston, NY 12402
www.autonomousenergies.com  
(518) 567-1468  

 

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 1:46 PM, glenn.b...@glbcc.com 
  mailto:glenn.b...@glbcc.com> > wrote:

We use the Ilsco SGB-4 ground lug on every pan under the array for residential 
systems.

 

-Glenn

 

Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone

 

-- Original message--

From: AE Solar

Date: Sun, Jun 17, 2018 12:29 PM

To: RE-wrenches;

Cc: 

Subject:[RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs

 

wrenchers,

what methods are you all using for grounding on metal roofs? thanks

adam




Adam Katzman
Autonomous Energies
PO Box 1245

Kingston, NY 12402
www.autonomousenergies.com  
(518) 567-1468  

 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs

[bruce]

NEC 690.47 (A) requires the array to be grounded, not necessarily the roof. If you have bonded the rails and modules and your grounding conductor goes back to the service you should be good. 690.47 (B) allows installation of an auxiliary grounding electrode (ground rod or building steel). Not a bad idea in lightning prone areas. ;) Local AHJ may have different opinions.Bruce Fiero-RMI"Energizing the Rogue Valley"4115 S Pacific HwyMedford, OR 97501P: 541.535.3965F: 541.512.0061E: br...@willpowerelect.comW: Willpower Electric, LLC CCB 191852Oregon Electrical Contractor C681NABCEP Certified Solar (PV) Installer 031409-38DUNS 191470363 Energy Trust of Oregon Trade Ally Solar (PV) Installation & Energy Efficient Commercial Lighting Programs   **This email may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee, or if it appears that you have received this email in error, please advise me immediately by reply email, keep the contents confidential, and immediately delete the message and any attachments from your system.  


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs
From: "glenn.b...@glbcc.com" 
Date: Sun, June 17, 2018 6:17 pm
To: AE Solar 
Cc: RE-wrenches 

   Depends on the seam profile. Same device may be used in many cases. We have Also drilled and used the standard direct burial lugs on the underside of the pans, at the wave when they hang over enough to get working space. Then a horizontal run of copper wire to connect.Don't be lulled into thinking that S-5 clamps are listed for grounding roof pans - they are not. They are only listed for module bonding to ground.Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typos.-- Original message--From: AE SolarDate: Sun, Jun 17, 2018 8:46 PMTo: glenn.b...@glbcc.com;Cc: RE-wrenches;Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofsthanks glenn. and what about commercial? anyone have code references regarding grounding when doing solar on metal roofs? i thought a few years back there was a conversation on this but i can't seem to find it.Adam KatzmanAutonomous EnergiesPO Box 1245Kingston, NY 12402www.autonomousenergies.com(518) 567-1468 On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 1:46 PM, glenn.b...@glbcc.com  wrote:  We use the Ilsco SGB-4 ground lug on every pan under the array for residential systems.-GlennSent from my Verizon LG Smartphone-- Original message--From: AE SolarDate: Sun, Jun 17, 2018 12:29 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: Subject:[RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofswrenchers,what methods are you all using for grounding on metal roofs? thanksadamAdam KatzmanAutonomous EnergiesPO Box 1245Kingston, NY 12402www.autonomousenergies.com(518) 567-1468 ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs

[glenn.b...@glbcc.com]

Just beneath the array, and usually the pan on either side of the array 
footprint.
Glenn
Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typos.
-- Original message--From: Benn KilburnDate: Mon, Jun 18, 2018 11:31 
AMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs
Glenn,Would you Bond/ground every metal pan or only the ones beneath the array?

Benn KilburnSkyFire Energy780-906-7807
On Jun 17, 2018, at 11:46 AM, "glenn.b...@glbcc.com"  
wrote:










We use the Ilsco SGB-4 ground lug on every pan under the array for 
residential systems.
-Glenn
Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone
-- Original message--From: AE SolarDate: Sun, Jun 17, 2018 12:29 PMTo: 
RE-wrenches;Cc: Subject:[RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs
wrenchers,what methods are you all using for grounding on metal roofs? 
thanksadam
Adam Katzman
Autonomous Energies
PO Box 1245Kingston, NY 12402
www.autonomousenergies.com
(518) 567-1468






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Re: [RE-wrenches] EMP and PV modules

[Jerry Shafer]

Wrenches
Hawaii was hit in the mid last century by a EMP, it took out most of
Honolulu, this was a post war test and it did confirm what can happen. This
was before micro electronics so if it happens we,re back to the stone ages.

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 10:21 AM  wrote:

> inverters and charge controllers are another story.
>
>
>
> todd
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, June 18, 2018 10:10am, "Jerry Shafer" 
> said:
>
> Wrenches
> Consider distance first EMP's may damage the baypass diodes but per the
> testing we have submitted to the military there was no damage to the cells
> modules
> Jerry
>
> On Jun 18, 2018 10:01 AM, "Jeremy Rodriguez" 
> wrote:
>
> I’ve done a quick search of the archives, but does anyone know of the the
> effects of an EMP PULSE on a module? We’ve got a potentially large project
> to look forward to, and one developer is very concerned
>
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> Solar installation / Design Expert
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1463 M St
> Penrose Colorado 81240
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] EMP and PV modules

[David Coale]

Here is a link that talks about this and a mention of a supplier if interested 
- video near the bottom:

https://solarpowerrocks.com/solar-questions/will-solar-panels-survive-nuclear-emp/
 


David



> On Jun 18, 2018, at 10:15 AM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote:
> 
> inverters and charge controllers are another story.
>  
> todd
>  
>  
> 
> 
> On Monday, June 18, 2018 10:10am, "Jerry Shafer"  
> said:
> 
> Wrenches
> Consider distance first EMP's may damage the baypass diodes but per the 
> testing we have submitted to the military there was no damage to the cells 
> modules
> Jerry
> 
> On Jun 18, 2018 10:01 AM, "Jeremy Rodriguez"  > wrote:
> I’ve done a quick search of the archives, but does anyone know of the the 
> effects of an EMP PULSE on a module? We’ve got a potentially large project to 
> look forward to, and one developer is very concerned 
> 
> Jeremy Rodriguez 
> Solar installation / Design Expert 
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1463 M St
> Penrose Colorado 81240
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] EMP and PV modules

[toddcory]

inverters and charge controllers are another story.
 
todd
 
 


On Monday, June 18, 2018 10:10am, "Jerry Shafer"  
said:



Wrenches
Consider distance first EMP's may damage the baypass diodes but per the testing 
we have submitted to the military there was no damage to the cells modules
Jerry


On Jun 18, 2018 10:01 AM, "Jeremy Rodriguez" <[ allsolarjer...@msn.com ]( 
mailto:allsolarjer...@msn.com )> wrote:

I’ve done a quick search of the archives, but does anyone know of the the 
effects of an EMP PULSE on a module? We’ve got a potentially large project to 
look forward to, and one developer is very concerned 


Jeremy Rodriguez 
Solar installation / Design Expert 

All Solar, Inc.
1463 M St

Penrose Colorado 81240
Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] EMP and PV modules

[Jerry Shafer]

Wrenches
Consider distance first EMP's may damage the baypass diodes but per the
testing we have submitted to the military there was no damage to the cells
modules
Jerry

On Jun 18, 2018 10:01 AM, "Jeremy Rodriguez"  wrote:

I’ve done a quick search of the archives, but does anyone know of the the
effects of an EMP PULSE on a module? We’ve got a potentially large project
to look forward to, and one developer is very concerned

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar installation / Design Expert
All Solar, Inc.
1463 M St
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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[RE-wrenches] EMP and PV modules

[Jeremy Rodriguez]

I’ve done a quick search of the archives, but does anyone know of the the 
effects of an EMP PULSE on a module? We’ve got a potentially large project to 
look forward to, and one developer is very concerned

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar installation / Design Expert
All Solar, Inc.
1463 M St
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs

[Benn Kilburn]

Glenn,
Would you Bond/ground every metal pan or only the ones beneath the array?

Benn Kilburn
SkyFire Energy
780-906-7807

> On Jun 17, 2018, at 11:46 AM, "glenn.b...@glbcc.com"  
> wrote:
> 
> We use the Ilsco SGB-4 ground lug on every pan under the array for 
> residential systems.
> 
> -Glenn
> 
> Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone
> 
> -- Original message--
> From: AE Solar
> Date: Sun, Jun 17, 2018 12:29 PM
> To: RE-wrenches;
> Cc:
> Subject:[RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs
> 
> wrenchers,
> what methods are you all using for grounding on metal roofs? thanks
> adam
> 
> Adam Katzman
> Autonomous Energies
> PO Box 1245
> Kingston, NY 12402
> www.autonomousenergies.com
> (518) 567-1468
> 
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