Re: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Well Pump Sizing

[Sindelar Solar]

Amos,

I have done this and it works. The VFX3524 will run a 3/4 HP (and a 1 
HP) AC well pump just fine through a PSX-240. I have this setup in my 
own home now, running on a 120V Magnum 4024AE. I would suggest a 
soft-start AC pump with a conventional pressure switch, not the 
constant-pressure approach. Add a 120VAC-coil single-pole relay on the 
120V side, with the pressure switch wired to the relay's coil circuit 
and the relay controlling the 120VAC between the inverter output and the 
PSX-240 input, to eliminate the 12(?)W tare of the PSX-240. It'll work 
fine and is completely reliable if professionally installed. We don't 
need no stinking badges - er, Radians!


Allan at Sindelar Solar

On 4/25/2019 11:14 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:


Time for a radian and lose the x240. Modernize the system to split 
phase and test for pressure leaks, pressure tank, pressure switch.


My experience with the x240 got much better when Schneider, Outback 
went split phase. They are fine for solar people but one more headache 
to an offgrid homeowner.  Good Luck!


*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" 
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net 
 text 209 813 0060*


On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 09:50:12 -0700, "Andrew"  
wrote:



Hey Amos.

It could be a multitude of things depending on what type of pump 
motor it uses. Even if you get it fixed it's still got 10yr parts in 
it elsewhere that will have to probably be replaced soon too. Have 
you looked into the Grundfos SQF series? They are really nice, run 
off AC or DC but are kind of limited to their flow rate at the range 
I think the best you could get would be 12 gpm. That way he could run 
the pump during the day off solar direct and then switch it over to 
AC for evening pumping and cut down usage on his house system.


Andrew Perkins

Greenwired

P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100

1150 #1 Evergreen Rd

Redway, CA 95560

www.greenwired.com

*From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Amos Post

*Sent:* Thursday, April 25, 2019 9:22 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Well Pump Sizing

I have an off-grid customer who is having problems with his 10 year+ 
old 1/2hp well pump. It is running and running at 900watts constant 
and hardly building pressure and even caused the 250amp breaker on 
his single VFX3524 inverter to trip.  He is running the pump at 240V 
off a x240 transformer and thinking he might need to replace the pump 
and might want to go with a larger 3/4hp pump for better performance 
and more future capacity.  Does anyone have experience running 3/4hp 
pumps on this setup?  The pump is approx. 200' down in the well.


*Amos Post*

 Integrity Energy

 O: 802.763.7023

 C: 802.291.2188



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--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Micro inverter OCP

[Will White]

Jay,

You're triggering some serious PTSD with this question. When 2017 NEC came
out Mass was the first state to adopt it and the inspectors started
requiring arc fault breakers on the micro inverter branch circuits, we were
using Enphase. At the time they didn't work, weren't really listed for
backfeed, and caused all kinds of problems. We ended up appealing to the
state board and lost only for the state board to turn around a few months
later and repeal that requirement. We ended up with thousands of dollars in
arc fault breakers sitting in boxes in the shop.

I'm not sure if they've worked out the technical issues but if it's
anything like it was in the past it's going to be a nightmare of false arc
faults.

Thanks,
Will

On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 1:10 PM Jay  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> For micro inverters,  what OCP is available for ground fault ( or arc
> fault)
> for roof top mounted on a living structure?
>
> Thx
> Jay
>
>
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-- 
*Will White*
Curriculum Developer


e: w...@solarenergy.org
w: www.solarenergy.org
p: 802-272-3092

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
# 093006-34

*FACT:  If we covered 0.33% of the earth with solar panels, we could power
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV waste problem

[Michael Welch]

Hello Wrenches. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me 
off-list.

This very interesting and important topic can be taken up at length on the 
RE-Markets email listserver.

I'm assuming Eric will be starting the conversation soon, so if you're not 
already on that listserver, you can sign up here:

http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-markets-re-wrenches.org

Eric Stikes wrote at 09:09 AM 4/20/2019:
 
>As many of you may know, the PV industry is beginning to experience a massive 
>solid waste problem. According to my sources, as well as sources such as the 
>California DTSC, the CA PUC, NREL, and the U.S. EIA, the U.S. is and/or will 
>soon be experiencing a waste stream of around 15 million modules going to 
>landfill every year (not including all the BOS). In CA, both the PUC and DTSC 
>held webinar meetings over the past 2 weeks to discuss this impending topic (I 
>have summary notes if anyone wants to know what was discussed and what the 
>outcomes were).
>
>As industry professionals, we need to have a candid conversation about 
>sustainability in the renewable energy industry, about the status-quo's linear 
>take-make-use-lose model versus what we need to develop: a circular economy.

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Well Pump Sizing

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Time for a radian and lose the x240. Modernize the system to split phase
and test for pressure leaks, pressure tank, pressure switch. 

My
experience with the x240 got much better when Schneider, Outback went split
phase. They are fine for solar people but one more headache to an offgrid
homeowner. Good Luck!  
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 09:50:12 -0700, "Andrew"  wrote:
 

Hey Amos. 

 It could be a multitude of things depending on what type
of pump motor it uses. Even if you get it fixed it's still got 10yr parts
in it elsewhere that will have to probably be replaced soon too. Have you
looked into the Grundfos SQF series? They are really nice, run off AC or DC
but are kind of limited to their flow rate at the range I think the best
you could get would be 12 gpm. That way he could run the pump during the
day off solar direct and then switch it over to AC for evening pumping and
cut down usage on his house system. 

Andrew Perkins 

Greenwired 

P:
707-923-2001 ext. 100 

1150 #1 Evergreen Rd 

Redway, CA 95560


www.greenwired.com 

FROM: RE-wrenches
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] ON BEHALF OF Amos
Post
SENT: Thursday, April 25, 2019 9:22 AM
TO: RE-wrenches
SUBJECT:
[RE-wrenches] Fwd: Well Pump Sizing 

I have an off-grid customer who is
having problems with his 10 year+ old 1/2hp well pump. It is running and
running at 900watts constant and hardly building pressure and even caused
the 250amp breaker on his single VFX3524 inverter to trip. He is running
the pump at 240V off a x240 transformer and thinking he might need to
replace the pump and might want to go with a larger 3/4hp pump for better
performance and more future capacity. Does anyone have experience running
3/4hp pumps on this setup? The pump is approx. 200' down in the well.  


--  

 AMOS POST

 Integrity Energy  

 O: 802.763.7023   

 C:
802.291.2188

 [3] 

-- 

 AMOS POST

 Integrity
Energy  

 W: 802.763.7023   

 C: 802.291.2188

 ienergyVT.com [4]  


 [5]  -- 

 

Links:
--
[1]
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net
[3]
https://www.facebook.com/integrityenergyllp?ref=br_tf
[4]
http://ienergyVT.com
[5]
https://www.facebook.com/integrityenergyllp?ref=br_tf
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Micro inverter OCP

[Nick Soleil]

Hi Jay,


ArcFault protection is only required for systems operating over 80V, so isn't 
required for most microinverters.


Enphase microinverters include ground-fault protection integral to the 
microinverters and the GFI can be reset if it trips.  Enphase provides 
instructions on reseting a tripped GFI in our Envoy Installation Manuals, 
including in this doucment:

https://enphase.com/sites/default/files/downloads/support/IQ-Envoy-Manual-EN-US.pdf#page=40


Cordially,

Nick Soleil

Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager, Envoy and Accessories

(707) 763-4784 x7267  // office

(707) 321-2937  // cell

Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management 
System

NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300

California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315



From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of Jay 

Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2019 7:15 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Micro inverter OCP

EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading 
attachments.





Hi all,

For micro inverters,  what OCP is available for ground fault ( or arc fault)
for roof top mounted on a living structure?

Thx
Jay


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Micro inverter OCP

[Brian Mehalic]

Is this in regards to 2014 NEC 705.12(D)(6)? This requirement was deleted
in 2017.

Brian Mehalic
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member
(520) 204-6639

Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org

SEI Professional Services
http://www.seisolarpros.com



On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 11:10 AM Jay  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> For micro inverters,  what OCP is available for ground fault ( or arc
> fault)
> for roof top mounted on a living structure?
>
> Thx
> Jay
>
>
> ___
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> www.members.re-wrenches.org
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>
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[RE-wrenches] Micro inverter OCP

[Jay]

Hi all,

For micro inverters,  what OCP is available for ground fault ( or arc fault) 
for roof top mounted on a living structure?

Thx
Jay


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Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Micro-grid

[louis]

The Inverters do not know what the wattage will be until they attempt to connect(go into GRID Monitoring routine) and then evaluate the conditions.If the PV voltage is over the Start voltage they will act on this.If by just entering the GRID-Monitoring the PV voltage collapses(not enough minimum power) the Inverter will typically fall out of GRID-Monitoring and repeat the process etc.The Inverter however does not just stay in waiting, it typically cycles through GRID-Monitoring, Waiting...This is where the PV Start voltage can come into play and the installer can increase this start voltage to minimize the amount of time the Inverter spends cycling through GRID-Monitoring/Waiting.When the Inverter spends allot of time doing this(Morning & Night) it needlessly causes the GRID Relays to be worked.Keep the VMPP high and this reduces the chances of this activity.Louis Segarra


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Micro-grid
From: Solar 
Date: Wed, April 24, 2019 4:03 pm
To: RE-wrenches 

I have three SB 700 for my solar class.  When we get the “waiting” on our LCD we are always well above the required VOC. A call to SMA years ago lead me to finding that there is a “wattage In”rating I need to meet to get the inverters to grid tie. I never saw this in the manual. These inverters have a narrow V and I window so finding modules for the lab was tricky. I had used 75V/1.4A modules for the stings to meet the 115-150Vdc range and a 2A max input rating. Connecting two of these in series never would take the inverter out of “waiting” mode unless it was blue bird skies and we tilted to array right at the sun. I finally put three or four in series on a (500w/m squared) cloudy day and the inverter immediately tied to the grid. Going back to 2 in series left it in waiting. That’s when I called and asked about a min current input rating and was told about the not listed wattage (I was told power) In rating. Not sure if this applies to you but it was a great lesson for the students. Jesse DahlNABCEP PV Installation ProfessionalIBEW Local 292 - Electrician Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCCSent from my iPhoneOn Apr 23, 2019, at 2:21 PM, Harry Mahon  wrote: William - yes, waiting is usually waiting for grid to come back within spec or for DC voltage to get to start.  260 should be plenty.  208V with neutral should be fine without adjusting the jumpers.  Have you measured the AC voltage at the inverter terminals?   May want to contact service for this one.  1-877-697-6283.   Best regards – Mike     From: William Miller   Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2019 12:40 PM To: Harry Mahon  Cc: RE-wrenches  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Micro-grid      Mike:       Thanks for the reply. Good information.        The AC system is 208. The data sheet indicates that for 208 the PV startup is 220. Today we have 260 VDC. That should be enough!?       I checked EMT he AC frequency in case it was on shift mode. It is right at 60.00.        Still in waiting mode. I had always thought “waiting” was for grid reconnect timeout...       WilliamOn Apr 23, 2019, at 8:47 AM, Harry Mahon  wrote:William –  Waiting mode means the DC voltage is below the inverter start.  For SB 4000-12, that would be 285 VDC (and will work to 250VDC once that is hit).   If you knock on the inverter lid, the display will cycle and you will see the DC voltage displayed.   If the yellow LED is not on, this should not be an AC side issue.   I do not think the “Backup Mode” parameter would be the cause, but if the voltage check shows well above PVstart, it would be worth a call to service.  If the inverter was left in on grid mode, then it will work when the SI is creating a micro-grid with frequency within UL1741 limits.  If the system is off-grid, I would think the SB would have been set to off-grid mode rather than enabling Backup Mode to “on all” that allows switching from on-grid to off-grid parameter sets by RS485 command.   Best- Mike     From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Monday, April 22, 2019 6:54 PM To: RE-wrenches  Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA Micro-grid     Friends:   I am working on an AC coupled SMA system in an off-grid setting.  We have an SB4000-12 that was disconnected for a number of years and we reconnected it.  The inverter is stuck in the waiting mode and  will not generate power.  The Sunny Islands and Sunny Boys are connected via an RS485 communication system.    I suspect there is a programming step I have not yet accomplished.  I recall some years ago I programmed the other Sunny Boys for off-grid operation.  I can’t find anything in any of the manuals about how to check the programming.  I also suspect SAM tech 

[RE-wrenches] Tell me what I'm missing on 690.12 B(2)? Where does it say "module-level???"

[Howard Arey]

The wording in 690.12 B(2) , effective after Jan 1, 2019, says "The PV
System shall comply with one of the following:" 

In none of the three subsequent paragraphs does it ref to "module level
shutdown." Paragraph 2 says gets inside the array voltage under 80 volts
within 30 seconds so I understand how that does not make a great article
headline.hence "module-level."

But I had a distributor that says they do not stock Fronius any longer
because it does not have a NEC 2017 solution.

But doesn't paragraph 1 ("comply with one of the following") and its
informational note provide a path to compliance as long as the string-level
RSD device is mounted within 1-foot of the array boundary?

How did "module-level" shutdown get taken as gospel truth??

I'm thinking a Fronius Primo with its RSD Quattro device mounted on an array
rail meets current 2017 code.

 

Howard "Scot" Arey

254-300-1228

scot.a...@solarcentex.com  

 



 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Well Pump Sizing

[Andrew]

Hey Amos.

It could be a multitude of things depending on what type of 
pump motor it uses. Even if you get it fixed it’s still got 10yr parts in it 
elsewhere that will have to probably be replaced soon too. Have you looked into 
the Grundfos SQF series? They are really nice, run off AC or DC but are kind of 
limited to their flow rate at the range I think the best you could get would be 
12 gpm. That way he could run the pump during the day off solar direct and then 
switch it over to AC for evening pumping and cut down usage on his house system.

 

 

Andrew Perkins

Greenwired

P: 707-923-2001 ext. 100

1150 #1 Evergreen Rd

Redway, CA 95560

www.greenwired.com

Description: signature

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Amos Post
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2019 9:22 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Well Pump Sizing

 

 

 

I have an off-grid customer who is having problems with his 10 year+ old 1/2hp 
well pump.  It is running and running at 900watts constant and hardly building 
pressure and even caused the 250amp breaker on his single VFX3524 inverter to 
trip.  He is running the pump at 240V off a x240 transformer and thinking he 
might need to replace the pump and might want to go with a larger 3/4hp pump 
for better performance and more future capacity.  Does anyone have experience 
running 3/4hp pumps on this setup?  The pump is approx. 200’ down in the well.

 

-- 

   

 Amos Post

 Integrity Energy

 O: 802.763.7023

 C: 802.291.2188

 ienergyVT.com  

 

  

-- 

   

 Amos Post

 Integrity Energy

 W: 802.763.7023

 C: 802.291.2188

 ienergyVT.com

 

 

  

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[RE-wrenches] Fwd: Well Pump Sizing

[Amos Post]

I have an off-grid customer who is having problems with his 10 year+ old
1/2hp well pump.  It is running and running at 900watts constant and hardly
building pressure and even caused the 250amp breaker on his single VFX3524
inverter to trip.  He is running the pump at 240V off a x240 transformer
and thinking he might need to replace the pump and might want to go with a
larger 3/4hp pump for better performance and more future capacity.  Does
anyone have experience running 3/4hp pumps on this setup?  The pump is
approx. 200’ down in the well.

-- 

* Amos Post*
 Integrity Energy
 O: 802.763.7023
 C: 802.291.2188
 ienergyVT.com 



-- 

* Amos Post*
 Integrity Energy
 W: 802.763.7023
 C: 802.291.2188
 ienergyVT.com




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