Re: [RE-wrenches] Ground mount fire code clarifications
Dan, I think there should more discussions on ground-mounted arrays as an option in addition to rooftop systems - to get out ahead of any issues. In addition, any renderings for ground-mounted arrays and ground-mounted stuff as ESSs. 1. By definition, a brush could mean a "slight and fleeting touch" - which we do not want to do at these times :) or "undergrowth, small trees and shrubs." 2. The challenge also in one and and two family dwellings when there is a setback of only (3) three feet as an accessory structure and the (10) foot rule. 3. I think mounts can be categorized in general as SPMs (Side of Pole Mounts), TPMs (Top of Pole Mounts), MPM's (Multiple Pole Mounts) or an Open Structure with the ability to walk underneath or a Closed structure where you can not walk underneath. 4. BTW, you may wish to look at versions of ISEP and the IRC too? "A. RS402.4 (R324.6) Ground-mounted photovoltaic systems. Ground-mounted photovoltaic systems shall be designed and installed in accordance with Section (R301). B. RS402.4.1 (R324.6.1) Fire separation distances. Ground-mounted photovoltaic systems shall be subject to the fire separation distance requirements determined by the local jurisdiction." 5. Gravel and the various types is also my goto soil amendment. In California, I'd also suggest working with a C27 Landscaping Contractor on what type of blue flowers would be okay. What do you think? All the best, Martin Herzfeld, Interstate Renewable Energy Council (IREC) Certified Master Trainer ™ for Photovoltaics (PV) Installation Professional #IREC 10037 Contract Training Provider (CTP) Adjunct Professor, Energy California Solar & Electrical Contractor License #00833782 C46, C10, D56, D31, C-7 Solar, Electrical, Trenching, Pole Installation & Maintenance, Instrumentation Contract Solar (PV) Technical Inspector - 3rd Party Inspections Underwriters Laboratories (UL) Certified PV Installer #17, OSHA 30 OSHA-Authorized Construction Trainer #32-0105338 CompTIA Certified Technical Classroom Trainer (CTT+) #T3NSZCNBBKB4QTQG * Professional Member, International Association of Electrical Inspectors #7035507 * Accredited and Registered North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners (NABCEP) Continuing Education (CE) Provider Telephone & Text: 510.243.0190 On Fri, Mar 20, 2020, 4:06 PM Dan Fink wrote: > Hello esteemed Wrenches; I am trying to clear this up for a client and his > AHJ, which is also puzzled at how to interpret IFC 2018, Section 1204.4, > which states: > > Setback requirements shall not apply to ground-mounted, free-standing >> photovoltaic arrays. A clear, brush-free area of 10 feet (3048 mm) shall be >> required for ground-mounted photovoltaic arrays. > > > I found one lone informational note in a white paper stating this was to > prevent a burning PV array from igniting surrounding vegetation and the > fire spreading. > > So, has anyone dealt with an AHJ on this before? Our questions are: > >- What exactly is a "free-standing photovoltaic array" that is exempt? >A pole mount? Couldn't burning debris from that ignite vegetation >underneath? >- What exactly does "A clear, brush-free area of 10 feet (3048 mm)" >mean? "10 feet" is a linear measurement, not an area, that would be in >square feet. >- What is "brush"? Does grass count as brush? > > I would interpret this on the safe side as meaning that all vegetation > under the PV array and out to a 10 foot perimeter should be cleared, except > for pole-mount arrays (that exception makes no sense to me). > > I always recommend to clients that the area *under* the ground mount > array should be pea gravel bordered by railroad ties, but out to 10 feet > from the array edge seems excessive. > > Any input greatly appreciated! > > Dan Fink > Executive Director, Buckville Energy Consulting > NABCEP PV Associate > NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector > IREC Certified Instructor™ for: > ~ PV Installation Professional > ~ Small Wind Installer > NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers > d anbo...@gmail.com > 970-672-4342 > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.ht
Re: [RE-wrenches] Ground mount fire code clarifications
In our area of California, when the green grass dies and turns brown, the area under any type of array needs to be free of grass. An array could ignite a wildfire if the array were emit sparks. This is a very rare condition but it can happen to even the best design and module type. There would not be any brush anywhere near an array. 10 feet from any point of the array makes sense but if there were a wildfire I would want alot more. 100 feet is typical for the zone around a home. That is what our AHJ wants to see in an inspection. We are in a very dangerous area for wildfires in the southern Sierra. Brush does not count as grass. An array should survive a grass fire. Brush would be much more dangerous and must be kept clear as it is a much larger heat source than grass. I hope this is helpful. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1] e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [2] text 209 813 0060 On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 17:06:01 -0600, Dan Fink wrote: Hello esteemed Wrenches; I am trying to clear this up for a client and his AHJ, which is also puzzled at how to interpret IFC 2018, Section 1204.4, which states: Setback requirements shall not apply to ground-mounted, free-standing photovoltaic arrays. A clear, brush-free area of 10 feet (3048 mm) shall be required for ground-mounted photovoltaic arrays. I found one lone informational note in a white paper stating this was to prevent a burning PV array from igniting surrounding vegetation and the fire spreading. So, has anyone dealt with an AHJ on this before? Our questions are: * What exactly is a "free-standing photovoltaic array" that is exempt? A pole mount? Couldn't burning debris from that ignite vegetation underneath? * What exactly does "A clear, brush-free area of 10 feet (3048 mm)" mean? "10 feet" is a linear measurement, not an area, that would be in square feet. * What is "brush"? Does grass count as brush? I would interpret this on the safe side as meaning that all vegetation under the PV array and out to a 10 foot perimeter should be cleared, except for pole-mount arrays (that exception makes no sense to me). I always recommend to clients that the area _under_ the ground mount array should be pea gravel bordered by railroad ties, but out to 10 feet from the array edge seems excessive. Any input greatly appreciated! Dan Fink Executive Director, Buckville Energy Consulting NABCEP PV Associate NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector IREC Certified Instructor(tm) for: ~ PV Installation Professional ~ Small Wind Installer NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers d [3]anbo...@gmail.com [4] 970-672-4342 Links: -- [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net [3] mailto:dan.f...@greendustrialtraining.com [4] mailto:anbo...@gmail.com ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion Batteries
Hi David, They all work but none of them can get Soc and a few other things out to Optics unless you add an external Outback Battery monitor. Outback has said they plan to have their own Lithium battery out in the Fall. Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1] e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [2] text 209 813 0060 On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 12:59:51 -0700, David Katz wrote: Hello Wrenches, I am working with some people that want to use a 20 kw-hour to 30 kw-hour 48 volt lithium-ion battery with an Outback Radian and Outback FM charge controllers. They are considering using Discover, Blue-Ion, Battle Born or SimpliPhi batteries. Does any one have any recommendations of which battery functions best with the Outback system. Thanks, David Katz Links: -- [1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Ground mount fire code clarifications
Hello esteemed Wrenches; I am trying to clear this up for a client and his AHJ, which is also puzzled at how to interpret IFC 2018, Section 1204.4, which states: Setback requirements shall not apply to ground-mounted, free-standing > photovoltaic arrays. A clear, brush-free area of 10 feet (3048 mm) shall be > required for ground-mounted photovoltaic arrays. I found one lone informational note in a white paper stating this was to prevent a burning PV array from igniting surrounding vegetation and the fire spreading. So, has anyone dealt with an AHJ on this before? Our questions are: - What exactly is a "free-standing photovoltaic array" that is exempt? A pole mount? Couldn't burning debris from that ignite vegetation underneath? - What exactly does "A clear, brush-free area of 10 feet (3048 mm)" mean? "10 feet" is a linear measurement, not an area, that would be in square feet. - What is "brush"? Does grass count as brush? I would interpret this on the safe side as meaning that all vegetation under the PV array and out to a 10 foot perimeter should be cleared, except for pole-mount arrays (that exception makes no sense to me). I always recommend to clients that the area *under* the ground mount array should be pea gravel bordered by railroad ties, but out to 10 feet from the array edge seems excessive. Any input greatly appreciated! Dan Fink Executive Director, Buckville Energy Consulting NABCEP PV Associate NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector IREC Certified Instructor™ for: ~ PV Installation Professional ~ Small Wind Installer NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers d anbo...@gmail.com 970-672-4342 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion Batteries
Hi Dave, We've been using Fortress Power EVaults (18.5 kw per) with good results with Radian 8048's Daryl > Hello Wrenches, > I am working with some people that want to use a 20 kw-hour to 30 kw-hour > 48 volt lithium-ion battery with an Outback Radian and Outback FM charge > controllers. > They are considering using Discover, Blue-Ion, Battle Born or SimpliPhi > batteries. > Does any one have any recommendations of which battery functions best with > the Outback system. > Thanks, > David Katz > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion Batteries
I’ve used Blue Ion and Fortress eVault 18.5 with the Radian and both have worked well. Blue Ion’s BMU and egauge are very sophisticated and has 5 years on Fortress’s 10 year warranty. Fortress is a great value but its batteries are integrated into the cabinet and not modular like the Blue Ion and weighs nearly 500 lbs per. Makes moving them tricky, especially if you are up against stairs. On Fri, Mar 20, 2020 at 4:00 PM David Katz wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > I am working with some people that want to use a 20 kw-hour to 30 kw-hour > 48 volt lithium-ion battery with an Outback Radian and Outback FM charge > controllers. > They are considering using Discover, Blue-Ion, Battle Born or SimpliPhi > batteries. > Does any one have any recommendations of which battery functions best with > the Outback system. > Thanks, > David Katz > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -- Chris Sparadeo C_802-369-4458 H_802-728-3059 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Lithium Ion Batteries
Hello Wrenches, I am working with some people that want to use a 20 kw-hour to 30 kw-hour 48 volt lithium-ion battery with an Outback Radian and Outback FM charge controllers. They are considering using Discover, Blue-Ion, Battle Born or SimpliPhi batteries. Does any one have any recommendations of which battery functions best with the Outback system. Thanks, David Katz ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
