[RE-wrenches] Tesla Powerwall 2.0 - Experience?

[Hilton Dier III]

Greetings, Wrenches,

I have an off-grid client who has been reading the buzz about the Tesla 
Powerwall 2.0. I have been reading the data sheets and manual for it and 
it appears to be AC coupled only. There was talk of a DC input version, 
but apparently that fell by the wayside. I try to be agnostic about 
technology, and I'd be willing to subcontract a Tesla-approved installer 
if, in fact, this was the best solution.


Does anybody have experience using the Powerwall 2.0 in an off grid PV 
system? Is it AC coupled only? Can it take generator power without 
barfing? What is the lead time on these?


Many Thanks,

Hilton

--
Hilton Dier III
Missisquoi River Hydro
Renewable Energy Design

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla Powerwall 2.0 - Experience?

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

There are people who are doing it on youtube but I have not looked at it
seriously because it has NMC cells. It is a very nice capacity at 13.5 kwh,
and good for the money. 

I did help a client get a model 2 to work
offgrid. After we were done it worked great with a Schneider system and
still does 2 years later. There is no warranty after what we did. I hope
some of the folks on here will give a more recent response of a "stock"
powerwall with an offgrid installation. A genset and DC solar in the mix. 


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060

On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 11:36:24 -0400, Hilton Dier III 
wrote:

Greetings, Wrenches, 

I have an off-grid client who has been
reading the buzz about the Tesla Powerwall 2.0. I have been reading the
data sheets and manual for it and it appears to be AC coupled only. There
was talk of a DC input version, but apparently that fell by the wayside. I
try to be agnostic about technology, and I'd be willing to subcontract a
Tesla-approved installer if, in fact, this was the best solution. 

Does
anybody have experience using the Powerwall 2.0 in an off grid PV system?
Is it AC coupled only? Can it take generator power without barfing? What is
the lead time on these?

Many Thanks, 

Hilton 
-- 
Hilton Dier
III
Missisquoi River Hydro
Renewable Energy Design

 

Links:
--
[1]
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla Powerwall 2.0 - Experience?

[Jerry Shafer]

Hilton, Wrenches
As I recall Tesla does not recommend their battery for off grid
applications, they need to be connected to the internet and without that
there may be warranty issues. I don't think that the off grid world and
daily cycling would work well over time either. How would you jump start
the power wall if it died do to low voltage cut out, a genny might work if
it connects and stays connected this might also affect the warranty.
Jerry
NABCEP PV inspector

On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 9:02 AM Hilton Dier III 
wrote:

> Greetings, Wrenches,
>
> I have an off-grid client who has been reading the buzz about the Tesla
> Powerwall 2.0. I have been reading the data sheets and manual for it and it
> appears to be AC coupled only. There was talk of a DC input version, but
> apparently that fell by the wayside. I try to be agnostic about technology,
> and I'd be willing to subcontract a Tesla-approved installer if, in fact,
> this was the best solution.
>
> Does anybody have experience using the Powerwall 2.0 in an off grid PV
> system? Is it AC coupled only? Can it take generator power without barfing?
> What is the lead time on these?
>
> Many Thanks,
>
> Hilton
>
> --
> Hilton Dier III
> Missisquoi River Hydro
> Renewable Energy Design
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla Powerwall 2.0 - Experience?

[Ray]

There are so many really good Li Iron Phosphate Batteries available, 
that are actually designed for off grid, that I don't see any advantage 
to using a more unstable chemistry that is not designed for off grid.   
AC coupled is a 2nd huge no no for off grid, and can leave an unattended 
system completely inoperable. Anytime the main battery inverter shuts 
off for any of several reasons: overload, overtemp, low battery, etc., 
it also means that all charging of the system ceases as well.


For Off grid, reliability is absolutely #1, and owner safety is directly 
related to that reliability.  They can lose water, heat, refrigeration, 
and communications in an outage.  I'm just tired of  folks dabbling in 
off grid, and not taking it seriously.  Why in the world would someone 
even consider using a product that its own manufacturer says should not 
be used off grid?


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 7/19/20 10:54 AM, Jerry Shafer wrote:

Hilton, Wrenches
As I recall Tesla does not recommend their battery for off grid 
applications, they need to be connected to the internet and without 
that there may be warranty issues. I don't think that the off grid 
world and daily cycling would work well over time either. How would 
you jump start the power wall if it died do to low voltage cut out, a 
genny might work if it connects and stays connected this might also 
affect the warranty.

Jerry
NABCEP PV inspector

On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 9:02 AM Hilton Dier III > wrote:


Greetings, Wrenches,

I have an off-grid client who has been reading the buzz about the
Tesla Powerwall 2.0. I have been reading the data sheets and
manual for it and it appears to be AC coupled only. There was talk
of a DC input version, but apparently that fell by the wayside. I
try to be agnostic about technology, and I'd be willing to
subcontract a Tesla-approved installer if, in fact, this was the
best solution.

Does anybody have experience using the Powerwall 2.0 in an off
grid PV system? Is it AC coupled only? Can it take generator power
without barfing? What is the lead time on these?

Many Thanks,

Hilton

-- 
Hilton Dier III

Missisquoi River Hydro
Renewable Energy Design

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla Powerwall 2.0 - Experience?

[Jerry Shafer]

I second what Ray says
Jerry

On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 12:49 PM Ray  wrote:

> There are so many really good Li Iron Phosphate Batteries available, that
> are actually designed for off grid, that I don't see any advantage to using
> a more unstable chemistry that is not designed for off grid.   AC coupled
> is a 2nd huge no no for off grid, and can leave an unattended system
> completely inoperable.  Anytime the main battery inverter shuts off for any
> of several reasons: overload, overtemp, low battery, etc., it also means
> that all charging of the system ceases as well.
>
> For Off grid, reliability is absolutely #1, and owner safety is directly
> related to that reliability.  They can lose water, heat, refrigeration, and
> communications in an outage.  I'm just tired of  folks dabbling in off
> grid, and not taking it seriously.  Why in the world would someone even
> consider using a product that its own manufacturer says should not be used
> off grid?
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 7/19/20 10:54 AM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
>
> Hilton, Wrenches
> As I recall Tesla does not recommend their battery for off grid
> applications, they need to be connected to the internet and without that
> there may be warranty issues. I don't think that the off grid world and
> daily cycling would work well over time either. How would you jump start
> the power wall if it died do to low voltage cut out, a genny might work if
> it connects and stays connected this might also affect the warranty.
> Jerry
> NABCEP PV inspector
>
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 9:02 AM Hilton Dier III 
> wrote:
>
>> Greetings, Wrenches,
>>
>> I have an off-grid client who has been reading the buzz about the Tesla
>> Powerwall 2.0. I have been reading the data sheets and manual for it and it
>> appears to be AC coupled only. There was talk of a DC input version, but
>> apparently that fell by the wayside. I try to be agnostic about technology,
>> and I'd be willing to subcontract a Tesla-approved installer if, in fact,
>> this was the best solution.
>>
>> Does anybody have experience using the Powerwall 2.0 in an off grid PV
>> system? Is it AC coupled only? Can it take generator power without barfing?
>> What is the lead time on these?
>>
>> Many Thanks,
>>
>> Hilton
>>
>> --
>> Hilton Dier III
>> Missisquoi River Hydro
>> Renewable Energy Design
>>
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla Powerwall 2.0 - Experience?

[Jerry Shafer]

I second what Ray says
Jerry

On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 12:49 PM Ray  wrote:

> There are so many really good Li Iron Phosphate Batteries available, that
> are actually designed for off grid, that I don't see any advantage to using
> a more unstable chemistry that is not designed for off grid.   AC coupled
> is a 2nd huge no no for off grid, and can leave an unattended system
> completely inoperable.  Anytime the main battery inverter shuts off for any
> of several reasons: overload, overtemp, low battery, etc., it also means
> that all charging of the system ceases as well.
>
> For Off grid, reliability is absolutely #1, and owner safety is directly
> related to that reliability.  They can lose water, heat, refrigeration, and
> communications in an outage.  I'm just tired of  folks dabbling in off
> grid, and not taking it seriously.  Why in the world would someone even
> consider using a product that its own manufacturer says should not be used
> off grid?
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 7/19/20 10:54 AM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
>
> Hilton, Wrenches
> As I recall Tesla does not recommend their battery for off grid
> applications, they need to be connected to the internet and without that
> there may be warranty issues. I don't think that the off grid world and
> daily cycling would work well over time either. How would you jump start
> the power wall if it died do to low voltage cut out, a genny might work if
> it connects and stays connected this might also affect the warranty.
> Jerry
> NABCEP PV inspector
>
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 9:02 AM Hilton Dier III 
> wrote:
>
>> Greetings, Wrenches,
>>
>> I have an off-grid client who has been reading the buzz about the Tesla
>> Powerwall 2.0. I have been reading the data sheets and manual for it and it
>> appears to be AC coupled only. There was talk of a DC input version, but
>> apparently that fell by the wayside. I try to be agnostic about technology,
>> and I'd be willing to subcontract a Tesla-approved installer if, in fact,
>> this was the best solution.
>>
>> Does anybody have experience using the Powerwall 2.0 in an off grid PV
>> system? Is it AC coupled only? Can it take generator power without barfing?
>> What is the lead time on these?
>>
>> Many Thanks,
>>
>> Hilton
>>
>> --
>> Hilton Dier III
>> Missisquoi River Hydro
>> Renewable Energy Design
>>
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla Powerwall 2.0 - Experience?

[Lou Russo]

I third what Ray says.

It is also my understanding that Tesla does not allow their installers to
be "subs".

On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 10:16 AM Jerry Shafer 
wrote:

> I second what Ray says
> Jerry
>
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 12:49 PM Ray  wrote:
>
>> There are so many really good Li Iron Phosphate Batteries available, that
>> are actually designed for off grid, that I don't see any advantage to using
>> a more unstable chemistry that is not designed for off grid.   AC coupled
>> is a 2nd huge no no for off grid, and can leave an unattended system
>> completely inoperable.  Anytime the main battery inverter shuts off for any
>> of several reasons: overload, overtemp, low battery, etc., it also means
>> that all charging of the system ceases as well.
>>
>> For Off grid, reliability is absolutely #1, and owner safety is directly
>> related to that reliability.  They can lose water, heat, refrigeration, and
>> communications in an outage.  I'm just tired of  folks dabbling in off
>> grid, and not taking it seriously.  Why in the world would someone even
>> consider using a product that its own manufacturer says should not be used
>> off grid?
>>
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>>
>> On 7/19/20 10:54 AM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
>>
>> Hilton, Wrenches
>> As I recall Tesla does not recommend their battery for off grid
>> applications, they need to be connected to the internet and without that
>> there may be warranty issues. I don't think that the off grid world and
>> daily cycling would work well over time either. How would you jump start
>> the power wall if it died do to low voltage cut out, a genny might work if
>> it connects and stays connected this might also affect the warranty.
>> Jerry
>> NABCEP PV inspector
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 9:02 AM Hilton Dier III 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings, Wrenches,
>>>
>>> I have an off-grid client who has been reading the buzz about the Tesla
>>> Powerwall 2.0. I have been reading the data sheets and manual for it and it
>>> appears to be AC coupled only. There was talk of a DC input version, but
>>> apparently that fell by the wayside. I try to be agnostic about technology,
>>> and I'd be willing to subcontract a Tesla-approved installer if, in fact,
>>> this was the best solution.
>>>
>>> Does anybody have experience using the Powerwall 2.0 in an off grid PV
>>> system? Is it AC coupled only? Can it take generator power without barfing?
>>> What is the lead time on these?
>>>
>>> Many Thanks,
>>>
>>> Hilton
>>>
>>> --
>>> Hilton Dier III
>>> Missisquoi River Hydro
>>> Renewable Energy Design
>>>
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
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>>> Check out or update participant bios:
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>>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla Powerwall 2.0 - Experience?

[Jay]

Does any know anything about the inverter in the power wall? I never hear 
anyone mention anything about it. 

Efficiency, surge, tare loss, repairability, 
AC charging capability, generator support, AGS,  etc. All the normal inverter 
questions. 

Thanks

Jay

Peltz power. 

> On Jul 19, 2020, at 1:16 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> 
> 
> I second what Ray says
> Jerry
> 
>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 12:49 PM Ray  wrote:
>> There are so many really good Li Iron Phosphate Batteries available, that 
>> are actually designed for off grid, that I don't see any advantage to using 
>> a more unstable chemistry that is not designed for off grid.   AC coupled is 
>> a 2nd huge no no for off grid, and can leave an unattended system completely 
>> inoperable.  Anytime the main battery inverter shuts off for any of several 
>> reasons: overload, overtemp, low battery, etc., it also means that all 
>> charging of the system ceases as well.  
>> 
>> For Off grid, reliability is absolutely #1, and owner safety is directly 
>> related to that reliability.  They can lose water, heat, refrigeration, and 
>> communications in an outage.  I'm just tired of  folks dabbling in off grid, 
>> and not taking it seriously.  Why in the world would someone even consider 
>> using a product that its own manufacturer says should not be used off grid?
>> 
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>> On 7/19/20 10:54 AM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
>>> Hilton, Wrenches
>>> As I recall Tesla does not recommend their battery for off grid 
>>> applications, they need to be connected to the internet and without that 
>>> there may be warranty issues. I don't think that the off grid world and 
>>> daily cycling would work well over time either. How would you jump start 
>>> the power wall if it died do to low voltage cut out, a genny might work if 
>>> it connects and stays connected this might also affect the warranty. 
>>> Jerry 
>>> NABCEP PV inspector 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 9:02 AM Hilton Dier III  
>>> wrote:
 Greetings, Wrenches,
 
 I have an off-grid client who has been reading the buzz about the Tesla 
 Powerwall 2.0. I have been reading the data sheets and manual for it and 
 it appears to be AC coupled only. There was talk of a DC input version, 
 but apparently that fell by the wayside. I try to be agnostic about 
 technology, and I'd be willing to subcontract a Tesla-approved installer 
 if, in fact, this was the best solution.
 
 Does anybody have experience using the Powerwall 2.0 in an off grid PV 
 system? Is it AC coupled only? Can it take generator power without 
 barfing? What is the lead time on these?
 
 Many Thanks,
 
 Hilton
 
 -- 
 Hilton Dier III
 Missisquoi River Hydro
 Renewable Energy Design
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla Powerwall 2.0 - Experience?

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Jay, 

We bypassed it all. It is rated at 5kw and 7kw surge for 30
seconds. If you stack them you increase both of these numbers. When I
helped my client do this, it was to get a back-up to the back-up offgrid.
So, there really was not the issue with someone losing their refrigeration
or water pumps. We know how to do offgrid BTW. Most of my bad mistakes
offgrid were over 40 years ago. 

It was a good project for me and I
learned alot. There is the old rumor that they will do the Powerwall 3 and
it will have some DC coupling. I doubt it. You also need their 1.8k$
gateway to make a powerwall system.  

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go
where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail
offgridso...@sti.net [2]
text 209 813 0060

On Sun, 19 Jul 2020 13:45:11
-0700, Jay  wrote:  Does any know anything about the inverter in the power
wall? I never hear anyone mention anything about it.Efficiency, surge,
tare loss, repairability,  AC charging capability, generator support, AGS,
etc. All the normal inverter questions.Thanks   Jay   Peltz power.  

On Jul 19, 2020, at 1:16 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:

I second what Ray
says Jerry  
  On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 12:49 PM Ray  wrote:   

There are so
many really good Li Iron Phosphate Batteries available, that are actually
designed for off grid, that I don't see any advantage to using a more
unstable chemistry that is not designed for off grid. AC coupled is a 2nd
huge no no for off grid, and can leave an unattended system completely
inoperable. Anytime the main battery inverter shuts off for any of several
reasons: overload, overtemp, low battery, etc., it also means that all
charging of the system ceases as well.  

For Off grid, reliability is
absolutely #1, and owner safety is directly related to that reliability.
They can lose water, heat, refrigeration, and communications in an outage.
I'm just tired of folks dabbling in off grid, and not taking it seriously.
Why in the world would someone even consider using a product that its own
manufacturer says should not be used off grid? 
Ray Walters
Remote
Solar
303 505-8760
 On 7/19/20 10:54 AM, Jerry Shafer wrote:   Hilton,
Wrenches As I recall Tesla does not recommend their battery for off grid
applications, they need to be connected to the internet and without that
there may be warranty issues. I don't think that the off grid world and
daily cycling would work well over time either. How would you jump start
the power wall if it died do to low voltage cut out, a genny might work if
it connects and stays connected this might also affect the warranty.  Jerry
NABCEP PV inspector   
  On Sun, Jul 19, 2020 at 9:02 AM Hilton Dier III 
wrote:   

Greetings, Wrenches, 

I have an off-grid client who has been
reading the buzz about the Tesla Powerwall 2.0. I have been reading the
data sheets and manual for it and it appears to be AC coupled only. There
was talk of a DC input version, but apparently that fell by the wayside. I
try to be agnostic about technology, and I'd be willing to subcontract a
Tesla-approved installer if, in fact, this was the best solution. 

Does
anybody have experience using the Powerwall 2.0 in an off grid PV system?
Is it AC coupled only? Can it take generator power without barfing? What is
the lead time on these?

Many Thanks, 

Hilton 
-- 
Hilton Dier
III
Missisquoi River Hydro
Renewable Energy Design

 
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