Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Battery

[Kirk Herander]

For some reason (that I never got an answer to from Outback or Blue Planet) 
older FX inverters are not compatible with Blue Ion LFP batteries. The newer 
FXR series are.
Considering one only needs to change slightly charge voltages, duration, etc. 
to meet BI recommendations, it's a mystery why Outback states that older FX 
inverters are not compatible. 
Outback  states this in a tech note about using LI batteries.

On 8/9/2020 5:40:39 PM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org 
 wrote:
P.S. The system consists of an old Outback FX inverter and an MX60, with
a 2600 W array.

---


On 2020-08-09 13:12, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote:
> Hello Wrenches,
>
> What is the best Li-Ion battery to use with an off grid system?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drake
> Athens Electric
>
> --
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Battery

[Darryl Thayer]

Kilovault Pl AGM for backup power, i am replacing C&D 15 year old backup
power batteries now much cheaper when cycling is infrequent.  By the way
most AGM need cycling.

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 3:10 PM Ken Schaal  wrote:

>  Any thoughts on Kilovault that Morningstar is teaming up with?
> Time for me to replace my 10 yr old. Deka AGMs.
> Not many outages, mostly float. No TOU rates. Net metered.
> Thanks
> Ken Schaal
> CommonWealth Solar
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 4:01 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
> offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:
>
>> My favorite are Discover AES and Fortress Power. They both communicate
>> open loop with Schaner Electric. The best battery I have installed as of
>> this date. Always like Surette and US battery for FLA.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
>> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
>> text 209 813 0060*
>>
>> On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 12:02:28 -0700, Jerry Shafer 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Wrenchel have been very happy with all my Blue Planet battery systems,
>> best battery you will install.
>> Jerry
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 11:19 AM 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Wrenches,
>>>
>>> What is the best Li-Ion battery to use with an off grid system?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Drake
>>> Athens Electric
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Battery

[Ray]

My favorite right now is Simpliphi: company has been around since 2002, 
and as the name implies, they are simple to install.  There is no 
external monitoring or comm, just an output breaker on each battery that 
can be reset if the internal BMS ever shuts down for any reason.  We've 
done several sets in new systems, and as battery replacements with older 
Outback equipment.  Simpliphi provides a nice programming cheat sheet 
for all the brands of inverters and charge controllers.


For smaller systems, the LiFe Blue batteries are great.  They have the 
best monitoring (simple blue tooth to a free phone app) and they are the 
only Li+ battery that has a solution for cold weather charging that I'm 
aware of.  Other battery companies have just given us the shoulder shrug 
and tell us to install the battery in a conditioned space.  Not a good 
answer for many off grid systems in the mountains.


I'm not a huge fan of Blue Planet; if their battery is over discharged, 
it requires a 48 v dark start.  I also did not find their enclosure to 
be NEC code compliant to connect conduit to. We had to modify it to 
allow a 2" KO. Cable routing and connections internally are also 
awkward. Its just a computer rack cabinet repurposed for batteries, but 
it does have pretty blue Lights (which we disconnected at the customer's 
request)  Finally the comm system is based on the E-gage, which was 
never designed for off grid and depends on a constant router and 
internet connection to monitor.  That is another deal killer for some 
remote projects.  Internet connectivity is great when available, just 
the monitoring can't be dependent on that connection.  Their tech 
support was good though.


Beware that Schneider inverters LBCO can't be programmed over 48v, which 
is a deal killer for most Li+ batteries.  We currently have a system 
that we are adding a relay to shut off AC output, that will be triggered 
by the charge controller.  That is just an amazingly kludgy solution for 
a really dumb problem: not allowing higher settings of the LBCO.  Until 
Schneider releases a firmware update, they are not even being considered 
for future projects.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 8/9/20 5:30 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
I have outback FX systems operating for years now, the lab l had used 
FX's and midnite systems, it does need to be 48 volts nominal.

Jerry

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 4:13 PM Kirk Herander > wrote:


For some reason (that I never got an answer to from Outback or
Blue Planet) older FX inverters are not compatible with Blue Ion
LFP batteries. The newer FXR series are.
Considering one only needs to change slightly charge voltages,
duration, etc. to meet BI recommendations, it's a mystery why
Outback states that older FX inverters are not compatible.
Outback  states this in a tech note about using LI batteries.


On 8/9/2020 5:40:39 PM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org

mailto:drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org>> wrote:

P.S. The system consists of an old Outback FX inverter and an
MX60, with
a 2600 W array.

---


On 2020-08-09 13:12, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
 wrote:
> Hello Wrenches,
>
> What is the best Li-Ion battery to use with an off grid system?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drake
> Athens Electric
>
> --
> ___
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C

Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Battery

[Jay]

Hi Kirk,

Can you explain why it wouldnt work?

Just setpoints. 

Jay

> On Aug 9, 2020, at 4:13 PM, Kirk Herander  wrote:
> 
> 
> For some reason (that I never got an answer to from Outback or Blue Planet) 
> older FX inverters are not compatible with Blue Ion LFP batteries. The newer 
> FXR series are.
> Considering one only needs to change slightly charge voltages, duration, etc. 
> to meet BI recommendations, it's a mystery why Outback states that older FX 
> inverters are not compatible. 
> Outback  states this in a tech note about using LI batteries.
>> On 8/9/2020 5:40:39 PM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> P.S. The system consists of an old Outback FX inverter and an MX60, with 
>> a 2600 W array. 
>> 
>> --- 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2020-08-09 13:12, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote: 
>> > Hello Wrenches, 
>> > 
>> > What is the best Li-Ion battery to use with an off grid system? 
>> > 
>> > Thanks, 
>> > 
>> > Drake 
>> > Athens Electric 
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > ___ 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Battery

[Jerry Shafer]

I have outback FX systems operating for years now, the lab l had used FX's
and midnite systems, it does need to be 48 volts nominal.
Jerry

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 4:13 PM Kirk Herander  wrote:

> For some reason (that I never got an answer to from Outback or Blue
> Planet) older FX inverters are not compatible with Blue Ion LFP batteries.
> The newer FXR series are.
> Considering one only needs to change slightly charge voltages, duration,
> etc. to meet BI recommendations, it's a mystery why Outback states that
> older FX inverters are not compatible.
> Outback  states this in a tech note about using LI batteries.
>
> On 8/9/2020 5:40:39 PM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org <
> drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org> wrote:
> P.S. The system consists of an old Outback FX inverter and an MX60, with
> a 2600 W array.
>
> ---
>
>
> On 2020-08-09 13:12, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote:
> > Hello Wrenches,
> >
> > What is the best Li-Ion battery to use with an off grid system?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Drake
> > Athens Electric
> >
> > --
> > ___
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> > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Battery

[drake . chamberlin]

P.S. The system consists of an old Outback FX inverter and an MX60, with 
a 2600 W array.


---


On 2020-08-09 13:12, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

What is the best Li-Ion battery to use with an off grid system?

Thanks,

Drake
Athens Electric

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Battery

[jay]

HI Drake,

I think it really depends on what inverter you have, what the size is, what 
features you want and why do you want lithium?

For example to me, as they are black boxes, I will only use one that has a 
physical external monitor, not only a web based, which at this point is pretty 
much Discover.

Also Discover is the only battery that actually has a closed loop, ie it 
actually communicates with the inverter control system.  Currently that is 
SolARk and schneider.

And Discover is the only one of the more common popular batteries that is an 
actual battery OEM and its a big OEM that has been around for something like 75 
years. 

Simpliphi is the easiest drop it replacement. No monitoring, but its sealed so 
no mice/rodents/bug issues, no comm to inverter.

Blue Planet is too much hype to me, only has internet based monitoring, is on 
open cabinet which I worry about the issues above, no communication to inverter.
I do like that it is a modular approach so its lighter to assemble.  

There are a number of others too.

Before I spend tens of thousands of someones money I always check to see how 
long the company has been in biz, what their size/$ etc.  And I look to see how 
the corporate structure is set up, ie how big is the tech department?  Look at 
Blue Planet for example, big list of names, only 1 tech person.  

Good luck with the wild west of batteries,

Jay




> On Aug 9, 2020, at 10:12 AM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote:
> 
> Hello Wrenches,
> 
> What is the best Li-Ion battery to use with an off grid system?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Drake
> Athens Electric
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Battery

[Mark Frye]

I looked at this and decided on a new set of Rolls flooded lead calcium 
for my grid-tied backup system.


On 8/9/2020 1:10 PM, Ken Schaal wrote:

 Any thoughts on Kilovault that Morningstar is teaming up with?
Time for me to replace my 10 yr old. Deka AGMs.
Not many outages, mostly float. No TOU rates. Net metered.
Thanks
Ken Schaal
CommonWealth Solar

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 4:01 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
mailto:offgridso...@sti.net>> wrote:


My favorite are Discover AES and Fortress Power. They both
communicate open loop with Schaner Electric. The best battery I
have installed as of this date. Always like Surette and US battery
for FLA.

  


*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
 text 209 813 0060*

On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 12:02:28 -0700, Jerry Shafer
mailto:jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Wrenchel have been very happy with all my Blue Planet battery
systems, best battery you will install.
Jerry

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 11:19 AM
mailto:drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org>> wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

What is the best Li-Ion battery to use with an off grid system?

Thanks,

Drake
Athens Electric

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Battery

[Ken Schaal]

 Any thoughts on Kilovault that Morningstar is teaming up with?
Time for me to replace my 10 yr old. Deka AGMs.
Not many outages, mostly float. No TOU rates. Net metered.
Thanks
Ken Schaal
CommonWealth Solar

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 4:01 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:

> My favorite are Discover AES and Fortress Power. They both communicate
> open loop with Schaner Electric. The best battery I have installed as of
> this date. Always like Surette and US battery for FLA.
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
> On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 12:02:28 -0700, Jerry Shafer 
> wrote:
>
> Wrenchel have been very happy with all my Blue Planet battery systems,
> best battery you will install.
> Jerry
>
> On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 11:19 AM 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Wrenches,
>>
>> What is the best Li-Ion battery to use with an off grid system?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Drake
>> Athens Electric
>>
>> --
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Battery

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

My favorite are Discover AES and Fortress Power. They both communicate
open loop with Schaner Electric. The best battery I have installed as of
this date. Always like Surette and US battery for FLA.  

Dave Angelini
Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060

On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 12:02:28 -0700, Jerry Shafer 
wrote:  Wrenchel have been very happy with all my Blue Planet battery
systems, best battery you will install. Jerry  
  On Sun, Aug 9, 2020,
11:19 AM  wrote: Hello Wrenches,

 What is the best Li-Ion battery to use
with an off grid system?

 Thanks,

 Drake
 Athens Electric

 -- 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Best Battery

[Jerry Shafer]

Wrenchel have been very happy with all my Blue Planet battery systems, best
battery you will install.
Jerry

On Sun, Aug 9, 2020, 11:19 AM  wrote:

> Hello Wrenches,
>
> What is the best Li-Ion battery to use with an off grid system?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drake
> Athens Electric
>
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[RE-wrenches] Best Battery

[drake . chamberlin]

Hello Wrenches,

What is the best Li-Ion battery to use with an off grid system?

Thanks,

Drake
Athens Electric

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