[RE-wrenches] Small diesel generator

[frenergy]

We 're looking into pairing a smaller 6-8KW diesel generator back -up to 
an off-grid Outback system to take advantage of the surplus of 
bio-diesel here. We're aware of the need to keep it a warmish winter 
location Suggestions? Experiences? No China knock-offs thank you.


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
Solar powered since 1982


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Strange noises from the roof

[Nick Soleil]

I had a similar experience 13 years ago on a house that had an addition built 
onto it.  The array spanned between the original home and the addition, and the 
structure would creak in the evening as the aluminum racking and modules 
cooled.  The creaking was a result of weaknesses in the structure, but I fixed 
the issue by splitting the array where the two structures met.  It wasn't a 
very easy fix, but it did resolve the issue.


Cordially,

Nick Soleil

Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager

(707) 763-4784 x7267  // office

(707) 321-2937  // cell

Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management 
System

NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300

California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315


From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of Ray 
Walters 
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:20 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Strange noises from the roof

EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading 
attachments.





Is this something else we need to put into our contracts?

"Not responsible for sounds due to normal thermal expansion and contraction of 
racking, modules, and roof".

Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 10/20/2021 2:58 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
These were Black framed Axitec panels. The clowns used zip ties (which were all 
over the roof, brittle and broken). There wasn't a single metallic wire clip on 
site.

This went on for 6 months, with no discernable improvement or worsening 
according to the client. It was every day and night in every climate. I'm quite 
baffled.

She thought she was being burglarized the first night. Then she hired a 
pest/vermin company thinking it was racoons. It didn't take long to put two and 
two together and realize it was coming from the solar array. But the original 
contractor couldn't figure it out.

Pic attached of what's there now.

Jaso



On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 3:55 PM Nick A Lucchese 
mailto:luccheseso...@me.com>> wrote:
Hello Jason,

I installed a 36 module array on a standing seam metal roof in June that I 
observed “tinging” sounds while working on it over a few days. It also employed 
the Ironridge UFO system but differs in that mine connected to the standing 
seams with L-feet paired with S-5! clamps and every single bolt and set screw 
was hand tightened and torqued to specifications.  At first I thought a couple 
of my metal Acme cable clips holding the PV wire under the frames were popping 
off or letting down a conductor from it’s grasp but after looking into it 
repeatedly I determined it was likely just small expansion/contraction events. 
Temperatures were in the upper 90’s and they’re the black REC 365 modules. The 
building sits away from the client’s house so if it were still occurring likely 
know one would notice but I did not notice it the few times I was there working 
on other details on slightly cooler days. However, if it continued to occur the 
way I had heard it I could see how it would get the attention of someone if it 
were a habitable structure.

Nick A Lucchese


> On Oct 19, 2021, at 1:04 PM, Jason Szumlanski 
> mailto:ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com>> 
> wrote:
>
> Someone reached out to me who had a PV system installed two years ago by 
> another contractor on her shingle roof. Almost immediately it started having 
> loud popping noises intermittently, but pretty consistently day to day. The 
> homeowner thought it sounded like expansion and contraction. That made sense, 
> so the original contractor came back multiple times to tighten things up. The 
> problem never went away and lasted about 6 months until it was driving her 
> crazy and she had the panels only removed. The sounds stopped. Legal 
> proceedings ensued. Everything was dropped and she now has rails up, panels 
> in garage, and no clamps.
>
> The panels have been in her garage for 18 months. I went to inspect today. 
> She has Quickmount LMount flashings, Ironridge XR100 rails and had UFOs. The 
> UFOs were tightened so much that they were tearing the t-bolts out of the top 
> channel of the rail. I don't know if that was from the original installation 
> or after they came back to try to resolve the issue. The UFOs had also dug in 
> pretty deeply to the top of the module frames. None of the glass was broken.
>
> I could not find much evidence of module frames slipping on the rails and 
> causing marks. The flashings and L-feet are all properly installed in trusses 
> at 48 or 24-in centers. The square bolts securing the L-feet to rails are all 
> tight and show no evidence of slippage. The attic looks great. 5/8 ply over 
> manufactured trusses (southern pine). It's a Gable roof with about 20 feet 
> eave to ridge. Again, everything looks great in the attic.
>
> There are two rows of panels. I thought maybe the two rows were rubbing on 
> each other. But I could not find any evidence on the short sides 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Strange noises from the roof

[Ray Walters]

Is this something else we need to put into our contracts?

"Not responsible for sounds due to normal thermal expansion and 
contraction of racking, modules, and roof".


Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 10/20/2021 2:58 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
These were Black framed Axitec panels. The clowns used zip ties (which 
were all over the roof, brittle and broken). There wasn't a single 
metallic wire clip on site.


This went on for 6 months, with no discernable improvement or 
worsening according to the client. It was every day and night in every 
climate. I'm quite baffled.


She thought she was being burglarized the first night. Then she hired 
a pest/vermin company thinking it was racoons. It didn't take long to 
put two and two together and realize it was coming from the solar 
array. But the original contractor couldn't figure it out.


Pic attached of what's there now.

Jaso



On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 3:55 PM Nick A Lucchese  
wrote:


Hello Jason,

I installed a 36 module array on a standing seam metal roof in
June that I observed “tinging” sounds while working on it over a
few days. It also employed the Ironridge UFO system but differs in
that mine connected to the standing seams with L-feet paired with
S-5! clamps and every single bolt and set screw was hand tightened
and torqued to specifications.  At first I thought a couple of my
metal Acme cable clips holding the PV wire under the frames were
popping off or letting down a conductor from it’s grasp but after
looking into it repeatedly I determined it was likely just small
expansion/contraction events. Temperatures were in the upper 90’s
and they’re the black REC 365 modules. The building sits away from
the client’s house so if it were still occurring likely know one
would notice but I did not notice it the few times I was there
working on other details on slightly cooler days. However, if it
continued to occur the way I had heard it I could see how it would
get the attention of someone if it were a habitable structure.

Nick A Lucchese


> On Oct 19, 2021, at 1:04 PM, Jason Szumlanski
 wrote:
>
> Someone reached out to me who had a PV system installed two
years ago by another contractor on her shingle roof. Almost
immediately it started having loud popping noises intermittently,
but pretty consistently day to day. The homeowner thought it
sounded like expansion and contraction. That made sense, so the
original contractor came back multiple times to tighten things up.
The problem never went away and lasted about 6 months until it was
driving her crazy and she had the panels only removed. The sounds
stopped. Legal proceedings ensued. Everything was dropped and she
now has rails up, panels in garage, and no clamps.
>
> The panels have been in her garage for 18 months. I went to
inspect today. She has Quickmount LMount flashings, Ironridge
XR100 rails and had UFOs. The UFOs were tightened so much that
they were tearing the t-bolts out of the top channel of the rail.
I don't know if that was from the original installation or after
they came back to try to resolve the issue. The UFOs had also dug
in pretty deeply to the top of the module frames. None of the
glass was broken.
>
> I could not find much evidence of module frames slipping on the
rails and causing marks. The flashings and L-feet are all properly
installed in trusses at 48 or 24-in centers. The square bolts
securing the L-feet to rails are all tight and show no evidence of
slippage. The attic looks great. 5/8 ply over manufactured trusses
(southern pine). It's a Gable roof with about 20 feet eave to
ridge. Again, everything looks great in the attic.
>
> There are two rows of panels. I thought maybe the two rows were
rubbing on each other. But I could not find any evidence on the
short sides of the modules that would suggest this was the problem.
>
> Has anyone seen this issue before? I'm thinking about putting a
few test panels back up with standard mid clamps rather than UFOs
just to see if that changes anything.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
> ___
>


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Strange noises from the roof

[Nick A Lucchese]

Hello Jason,

I installed a 36 module array on a standing seam metal roof in June that I 
observed “tinging” sounds while working on it over a few days. It also employed 
the Ironridge UFO system but differs in that mine connected to the standing 
seams with L-feet paired with S-5! clamps and every single bolt and set screw 
was hand tightened and torqued to specifications.  At first I thought a couple 
of my metal Acme cable clips holding the PV wire under the frames were popping 
off or letting down a conductor from it’s grasp but after looking into it 
repeatedly I determined it was likely just small expansion/contraction events. 
Temperatures were in the upper 90’s and they’re the black REC 365 modules. The 
building sits away from the client’s house so if it were still occurring likely 
know one would notice but I did not notice it the few times I was there working 
on other details on slightly cooler days. However, if it continued to occur the 
way I had heard it I could see how it would get the attention of someone if it 
were a habitable structure.

Nick A Lucchese


> On Oct 19, 2021, at 1:04 PM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> 
> Someone reached out to me who had a PV system installed two years ago by 
> another contractor on her shingle roof. Almost immediately it started having 
> loud popping noises intermittently, but pretty consistently day to day. The 
> homeowner thought it sounded like expansion and contraction. That made sense, 
> so the original contractor came back multiple times to tighten things up. The 
> problem never went away and lasted about 6 months until it was driving her 
> crazy and she had the panels only removed. The sounds stopped. Legal 
> proceedings ensued. Everything was dropped and she now has rails up, panels 
> in garage, and no clamps.
> 
> The panels have been in her garage for 18 months. I went to inspect today. 
> She has Quickmount LMount flashings, Ironridge XR100 rails and had UFOs. The 
> UFOs were tightened so much that they were tearing the t-bolts out of the top 
> channel of the rail. I don't know if that was from the original installation 
> or after they came back to try to resolve the issue. The UFOs had also dug in 
> pretty deeply to the top of the module frames. None of the glass was broken.
> 
> I could not find much evidence of module frames slipping on the rails and 
> causing marks. The flashings and L-feet are all properly installed in trusses 
> at 48 or 24-in centers. The square bolts securing the L-feet to rails are all 
> tight and show no evidence of slippage. The attic looks great. 5/8 ply over 
> manufactured trusses (southern pine). It's a Gable roof with about 20 feet 
> eave to ridge. Again, everything looks great in the attic.
> 
> There are two rows of panels. I thought maybe the two rows were rubbing on 
> each other. But I could not find any evidence on the short sides of the 
> modules that would suggest this was the problem.
> 
> Has anyone seen this issue before? I'm thinking about putting a few test 
> panels back up with standard mid clamps rather than UFOs just to see if that 
> changes anything. 
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Strange noises from the roof

[AE Solar]

Jason,

We had a similar situation with a SnapNRack UR-40 system. Homeowner said
everyone once and a while they would hear a sound like "an acorn hitting
the roof". It was pretty sporadic, but at least a few times a day. Install
happened in late fall when there can be decent temperature changes
throughout the day. Also, it was a cathedral ceiling below the install, so
it's possible the sound was amplified by that (rather than being dampened
by an attic).

All racking was installed as per SNR's specifications with gaps in the rail
splices for expansion etc. Short edge of the panels were spaced so that
they didn't touch each other. Talked with SNR and they didn't have any
ideas. The install happened directly after some other work was completed on
that roof section (cellulose insulation was blown in, new shingles, some
new decking in places, drywall, etc) so couldn't be sure in the end if it
was related to us or somehow related to any of the other work that had
happened (although they didn't notice it until the panels went up). The
engineer said maybe there was just some settling in the house due to all
the work. Doesn't sound like it was nearly as extreme as your situation
though, and we never figured out exactly what it was.

Adam

Adam Katzman
Autonomous Energies
PO Box 1245
Kingston, NY 12402
www.autonomousenergies.com
(518) 567-1468



On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 4:04 PM Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> Someone reached out to me who had a PV system installed two years ago by
> another contractor on her shingle roof. Almost immediately it started
> having loud popping noises intermittently, but pretty consistently day to
> day. The homeowner thought it sounded like expansion and contraction. That
> made sense, so the original contractor came back multiple times to tighten
> things up. The problem never went away and lasted about 6 months until it
> was driving her crazy and she had the panels only removed. The sounds
> stopped. Legal proceedings ensued. Everything was dropped and she now has
> rails up, panels in garage, and no clamps.
>
> The panels have been in her garage for 18 months. I went to inspect today.
> She has Quickmount LMount flashings, Ironridge XR100 rails and had UFOs.
> The UFOs were tightened so much that they were tearing the t-bolts out of
> the top channel of the rail. I don't know if that was from the original
> installation or after they came back to try to resolve the issue. The UFOs
> had also dug in pretty deeply to the top of the module frames. None of the
> glass was broken.
>
> I could not find much evidence of module frames slipping on the rails and
> causing marks. The flashings and L-feet are all properly installed in
> trusses at 48 or 24-in centers. The square bolts securing the L-feet to
> rails are all tight and show no evidence of slippage. The attic looks
> great. 5/8 ply over manufactured trusses (southern pine). It's a Gable roof
> with about 20 feet eave to ridge. Again, everything looks great in the
> attic.
>
> There are two rows of panels. I thought maybe the two rows were rubbing on
> each other. But I could not find any evidence on the short sides of the
> modules that would suggest this was the problem.
>
> Has anyone seen this issue before? I'm thinking about putting a few test
> panels back up with standard mid clamps rather than UFOs just to see if
> that changes anything.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
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