Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install

[Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches]

Ron

The Sol-Ark has two MPPT channels and has two separate landing spots for each 
MPPT channels. Each landing pair needs matching strings. 8 AWG wire barely fits 
so the Sol-Ark PV terminals so they may only be rated for 10AWG. 

I’m assuming you have a ground array  The most common stringing method would be 
to use a trench with conduit and THHN wire. You could also sleeve a 
direct-burial cable into the ground.  Calculate the voltage drop over the 
distance to make sure 10AWG is adequate. If not, then make a junction, like a 
MidNite or Outback combiner or an IMO switch at the array to get up the right 
wire size, with an added MidNite Surge Protector or EMP shield device. If it’s 
a long distance (larger wire size), add another combiner at the inverter 
building entrance to get back to 10 AWG. 

https://practicalpreppers.com/product/imo-4-pole-16-amp-dc-disconnect/

Also, The Sol-Ark sizing guide helps with string calculations. 

https://www.sol-ark.com/solar-panel-sizing/SolarPanelSizing.html

Contact me off list with additional questions. 



Maverick Brown
Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006
Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
 • Solar Commander Remote Power
 • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection 
maver...@mavericksolar.com
512-460-9825


> On Apr 12, 2022, at 9:42 PM, Ron Young via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark install. 
> Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a  and the PV I’m using is 40v DC 
> each I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be the best 
> choice for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with micro 
> inverters, a combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable but the 
> string inverter presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need to 
> use three home run cables, one for each string. 
> 
> Ron Young
> 
> earthRight Products - Solareagle.com
> Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Module - microinverter compatibility question

[Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches]

I would say it’s likely okay, but to speak in the vernacular, “watch out 
sucka”. 

Vmp will be lower due to temperature coefficient, dirt on the panels and 
degradation over time.  But, the inverter likely wakes up above the minimum Vmp 
as Voc has the voltage but the inverter can track below minimum Vmp after it 
wakes up and starts tracking. How far below official Vmp can it track? 18-58 is 
the tracking range. Inverter technical specs:

https://www4.enphase.com/sites/default/files/IQ7A-DS-EN-US.pdf

I saw an inverter comparison document but could only find this AU version just 
now. 

https://www4.enphase.com/sites/default/files/downloads/support/IQ7A_Vs_IQ7plus_in_Australia.pdf



Maverick Brown
Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006
Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
 • Solar Commander Remote Power
 • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection 
maver...@mavericksolar.com
512-460-9825


> On Apr 13, 2022, at 3:57 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm concerned that a microinverter - module pair that has been specified by 
> a supplier may not work. The maximum power voltage is very close to the 
> minimum starting voltage. The Voc is adequately high.
> 
> An Aptos DNA-120-MF26-365W is paired with an Enphase IQ 7A
> 
> •Minimum start voltage of the inverter is 33 V
> •Vmmp of the module is 33.96 V
> •Voc of the module is 40.7 V
> 
> Is the 33 V starting voltage going to be a problem with a module STC Max 
> power voltage of 33.96 V? Is it the Voc that determines the starting of the 
> inverter or the Vmmp?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Drake
> 
> Drake Chamberlin
> Athens Electric LLC
> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
> CO Master Electrician’s License 4526
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Module - microinverter compatibility question

[Chris Worcester via RE-wrenches]

Seems like heat is going to be a major player, a top of pole mount array might 
keep the modules cool enough to keep the 7As running. Tight to a roof, and all 
bets are off, imho.Chris Worcester chris@solarwindworks.com530-448-9692Sent 
from my Samsung Galaxy s9.
 Original message From: Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches 
 Date: 4/13/22  1:57 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: 
RE-wrenches  Cc: 
drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module - 
microinverter compatibility question I'm concerned that a microinverter - 
module pair that has been specified by a supplier may not work. The maximum 
power voltage is very close to the minimum starting voltage. The Voc is 
adequately high.An Aptos DNA-120-MF26-365W is paired with an Enphase IQ 7A• 
Minimum start voltage of the inverter is 33 V•  Vmmp of the module is 33.96 V•  
Voc of the module is 40.7 VIs the 33 V starting voltage going to be a problem 
with a module STC Max power voltage of 33.96 V? Is it the Voc that determines 
the starting of the inverter or the Vmmp?Thanks,DrakeDrake ChamberlinAthens 
Electric LLCOhio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810CO Master Electrician’s 
License 4526NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional-- 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Module - microinverter compatibility question

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

The VOC will start the microinverter, but I would pair a 365W module with
the IQ7+. It depends on where you are and how.much clipping there might be
based on temp, orientation, etc. But, the IQ7+ is now in short supply, so
you might want to look at the IQ8+.

I have never had an issue with a module voltage close to the microinverter
specified startup voltage.

Jason Szumlanski


On Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 4:56 PM Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I'm concerned that a microinverter - module pair that has been specified
> by a supplier may not work. The maximum power voltage is very close to
> the minimum starting voltage. The Voc is adequately high.
>
> An Aptos DNA-120-MF26-365W is paired with an Enphase IQ 7A
>
> •   Minimum start voltage of the inverter is 33 V
> •   Vmmp of the module is 33.96 V
> •   Voc of the module is 40.7 V
>
> Is the 33 V starting voltage going to be a problem with a module STC Max
> power voltage of 33.96 V? Is it the Voc that determines the starting of
> the inverter or the Vmmp?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drake
>
> Drake Chamberlin
> Athens Electric LLC
> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
> CO Master Electrician’s License 4526
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
>
>
> --
> ___
>
>
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[RE-wrenches] Module - microinverter compatibility question

[Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches]

I'm concerned that a microinverter - module pair that has been specified 
by a supplier may not work. The maximum power voltage is very close to 
the minimum starting voltage. The Voc is adequately high.


An Aptos DNA-120-MF26-365W is paired with an Enphase IQ 7A

•   Minimum start voltage of the inverter is 33 V
•   Vmmp of the module is 33.96 V
•   Voc of the module is 40.7 V

Is the 33 V starting voltage going to be a problem with a module STC Max 
power voltage of 33.96 V? Is it the Voc that determines the starting of 
the inverter or the Vmmp?


Thanks,

Drake

Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
CO Master Electrician’s License 4526
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install (Admin Post)

[Michael Welch via RE-wrenches]

Hi gang, let's take any further discussion of Wrench List qualifications 
off-list, please email me directly with any questions or concerns.

First, this is not a NABCEP-only list. If I had to guess, less than half of you 
have pro installer certifications. In fact, this list predates NABCEP and was 
helpful in the creation of NABCEP.  There are plenty of solid installers who 
for whatever reasons have decided not to seek NABCEP certification. 

NABCEP PVIP certification IS an automatic qualification for this list, no 
questions asked. But for list applicants who aren't PVIP certified, I go by 
their stated experience. If I have any reason to doubt that experience, or it 
is on the edge, I have a long list of questions to help me determine pro status 
and experience.

These are things I feel are necessary to keep the level of discussion fairly 
high.

FYI, Ron has been active in this list since 2006, and qualified for the list 
based on his experience installing off-grid systems in British Columbia. 

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[RE-wrenches] Sharp ND-208U1 module

[Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches]

Looking for one of these as a replacement. Please contact me off list if
you can help. Thanks.

-- 

*Kirk Herander / **kirkh@vermont.solar *

*Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC*

*Celebrating our 31st Anniversary 1991-2022!!*

*www.vermont.solar*


dba Vermont Solar Engineering

802.863.1202
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ8 systems

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

I believe that applies to all microinverters from the M215 to the IQ8. The
available power is additive as long as there is battery capacity and the
micro inverters are not off due to the battery being at full capacity. If
the battery is at full capacity, the IQ8 should still be able to supplement
heavy loads, but others will not react fast enough if they have already
been commanded off.

We always size our batteries alone to have sufficient power for the
expected loads. Some people have asked if they can just use air
conditioning during the day when the sun is shining and get a smaller
battery. I decline to design systems that way. I believe it would be too
unreliable.

Jason Szumlanski



On Wed, Apr 13, 2022, 8:39 AM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Good Morning Wrenches,
>
> I am working through the Enphase training for their battery system while
> simultaneously designing a backup system.  Cart is in front of the horse
> just a bit!
>
> Does anyone know if you are using an IQ8 roof top micro, does its output
> capacity add to the battery output capacity for baseline power output when
> the sun is shining?  Or is this a bad assumption?  The fact you can do
> "solar only" backup suggests you can.
>
> For example, can I say (*during sunny conditions)*:
>
>  Battery Output + AC solar output = nominal output wattage available for
> backup?
>
> How are these systems performing in the field?
>
> Thanks as always!
>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
> ___
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[RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ8 systems

[Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches]

Good Morning Wrenches,

I am working through the Enphase training for their battery system while
simultaneously designing a backup system.  Cart is in front of the horse
just a bit!

Does anyone know if you are using an IQ8 roof top micro, does its output
capacity add to the battery output capacity for baseline power output when
the sun is shining?  Or is this a bad assumption?  The fact you can do
"solar only" backup suggests you can.

For example, can I say (*during sunny conditions)*:

 Battery Output + AC solar output = nominal output wattage available for
backup?

How are these systems performing in the field?

Thanks as always!

-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install

[Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches]

Hello Ron,

I'll try to point you in the right direction here, but yes you want to move
forward cautiously.  Good training is easily available all over the place
now.  I will say that you can be an excellent and successful solar
installer these days without any experience with string inverters like
this.  MLPE has made this possible recently.

If this is on the roof, and you are on a 2014 NEC code or later, you will
need some type of module level or string level rapid shutdown device.  Tigo
seems to work well with the Sol-Ark built in RSS system.

As far as stringing, you need to apply your local climate's cold factor to
the Voc of the string, or use the module nameplate to figure out the true
Voc of each string and stay below the MPPT limit for Voc.  If you haven't
done this before, I would take a class. You can use Sol-Arks string
calculator here:
https://www.sol-ark.com/solar-panel-sizing/SolarPanelSizing.html

I always check any calculator's output by hand and verify that the Voc goes
up as temperature goes down.  This step should not be overlooked because
you can damage the MPPTs input.  The cold temp factor here in Colorado can
drive the Voc to 25% above the nameplate ratings, so don't ignore this.

Once you have your maximum string length, you want to figure out how to
wire this in as efficiently as possible.  You can combine 2 strings per
MPPT typically, but these parallel strings need to be the same number of
modules.  You also want the strings to face ~ same direction and have
similar shading characteristics for the most efficient operation over time.

Be careful and good luck!

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 5:29 AM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I agree with an earlier response…isn’t this a NABCEP PV Installation
> Professional-only forum?  The original question is DC-string design 101.
> Jerry is spot on for coldest temp adjustments, RSD considerations if
> required. But selecting a home run wire for separate string inputs to the
> inverter??? How can this be asked here?
>
> Ron, are you NABCEP PV Installation Pro certified?
>
>
>
> Scot Arey
>
> Owner, Solar CenTex
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
> Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 12, 2022 10:27 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Cc:* Jerry Shafer 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install
>
>
>
> Need more than this, we have amperage, we need distance, temp, # of wires
> per conduit, also at 480 you may want to verify cold temp for over the top
> voltage @ VOC, any RSD device(s) being used? Help to have total module
> count, as an example use a combiner to make 4 strings, 2 of equal voltage
> per input. For battery backup or off grid, Solark is the easiest you will
> get.
>
> Jerry
>
>  NABCEP PV Inspector
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 7:42 PM Ron Young via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark install.
> Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a  and the PV I’m using is 40v DC
> each I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be the best
> choice for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with micro
> inverters, a combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable but the
> string inverter presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need
> to use three home run cables, one for each string.
>
>
>
> Ron Young
>
>
>
> earthRight Products - Solareagle.com
> Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products
>
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-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install

[Scot Arey via RE-wrenches]

I agree with an earlier response…isn’t this a NABCEP PV Installation 
Professional-only forum?  The original question is DC-string design 101. Jerry 
is spot on for coldest temp adjustments, RSD considerations if required. But 
selecting a home run wire for separate string inputs to the inverter??? How can 
this be asked here?

Ron, are you NABCEP PV Installation Pro certified?

 

Scot Arey

Owner, Solar CenTex



 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2022 10:27 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jerry Shafer 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install

 

Need more than this, we have amperage, we need distance, temp, # of wires per 
conduit, also at 480 you may want to verify cold temp for over the top voltage 
@ VOC, any RSD device(s) being used? Help to have total module count, as an 
example use a combiner to make 4 strings, 2 of equal voltage per input. For 
battery backup or off grid, Solark is the easiest you will get. 

Jerry

 NABCEP PV Inspector 

 

On Tue, Apr 12, 2022, 7:42 PM Ron Young via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > 
wrote:

Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark install. 
Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a  and the PV I’m using is 40v DC each 
I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be the best choice 
for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with micro inverters, a 
combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable but the string inverter 
presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need to use three home run 
cables, one for each string. 

 

Ron Young

 

earthRight Products - Solareagle.com  
Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install

[William Miller via RE-wrenches]

Ron:



I apologize if I am underestimating your level of skill or experience.
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.  However from the extent of the
questions you are asking, it seems like some solar design and vocational
courses might be in order.  Without a solid background, no one should be
designing and installing electrical systems with any voltages greater than
50, AC or DC.



Below is my take on the subject of training.  I apologize if I am on a bit
of a rant, but I feel the subject gets overlooked.



When I started in solar there were no training resources.  As time passed a
few became available:  I took one of Bill Brooks’ early 3 day courses in
Sacramento.  I went to a very bizarre lecture that John Wiles presented.
There was an outfit called High Sun Engineering that had a multi-day
course.



I also went to every inverter manufacturer’s 1-3 day course I could find
including Outback’s factory certification course.  I went to every trade
show I could get to.  I read every manual and I kept the all of the solar
equipment manufacturer’s tech support numbers on speed dial.  All of these
are still valid methods to improve your knowledge.



There are now many good training options.  Community colleges offer
courses.  I never pursued the NABCEP training because there was never a job
I failed to get or complete due to lack of that certification.  I have
reviewed the NABCEP training material and the curriculum seems very
thorough.



The industry is much more complicated now than it was in the mid-80s-- If
back then someone had tried to explain AC coupling to me it would have
blown my mind, as just one example.  Further complicating the
solar-electric industry is the evolution of the NEC, the rigors of
permitting and improved safety protocols that have to be followed.
Training is more important now than ever.



Here is another concept that I think applies to this mini-rant:  Before one
can become a skilled solar electrician one must first become a competent
electrician.  You need to know electrical theory, electrical and building
codes, the hardware, practices and construction in general, particularly
roofing.  To become a solar designer, you have to have expertise in the
above trades and have additional skills in math, spreadsheets, research and
CAD.



Here is an option for those interested in getting started in the solar
electric trade:  Before I got my contractor’s license I worked with a buddy
that was licensed.  I already had a few years as an apprentice and I had
electronics training and experience.  I brought the customers and the
designs.  My pal supervised the work and put his name on the permits.
Eventually he signed for my hours and I got my own license.



The bottom line is: I could not in good conscious coach someone on how to
design any electrical system if I were not confident they were experienced
enough to install the resulting system safely.  The overriding principal is
simple enough: electrical systems, when installed improperly, can kill.



I mean no disrespect…



William Miller



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Ron Young via RE-wrenches
*Sent:* Tuesday, April 12, 2022 7:42 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Cc:* Ron Young
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark install



Hi Wrenches, trying to wrap my head around a first time Sol-Ark install.
Because the max DC voltage is 500v at 18a  and the PV I’m using is 40v DC
each I will have to create three strings each 480v. What would be the best
choice for a home run wire? I’ve always used smaller strings with micro
inverters, a combiner at the array and a single Teck home run cable but the
string inverter presents a different scenario and it looks like I’ll need
to use three home run cables, one for each string.



Ron Young



earthRight Products - Solareagle.com
Alternative Energy Solutions ~ Renewable Energy Products
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