Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

2023-01-27 Thread Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches 
Hi William,

Keep in mind that the bigger Midnite remote trip breakers aren't UL listed
last I checked.

Let us know what you come up with.



On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 2:39 PM Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Wiliam,
>
> I designed a system for this using the MidNite RT breakers. They use 24VDC
> to trigger them, but you must then open the 24VDC to them once they have
> tripped or it will burn out the coil in the breaker. What I designed was a
> 48VDC to 24VDC power supply and a EPO button that is normally open. We have
> both of these, the N.O. button is rare. The power supply is from OutBack.
> Then once the breaker has tripped the power is no longer supplied to the
> switch or RT breaker. It does require a manual reset of the breaker. I've
> attached a drawing of this.
>
> Brad
> AEE Solar
>
> On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 12:54 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Glenn:
>>
>>
>>
>> As I wrote, a DC disconnect is required.  Here is an excerpt from the Q
>> with the building official:
>>
>>
>>
>> 4.   Will you be requiring an external disconnect to disconnect the AC
>> output of the inverter system from premise wiring?
>>
>> Yes, as required per 230.85
>>
>> 5.   Will you be requiring an external disconnect to disconnect
>> batteries from the inverters?
>>
>> Yes
>>
>>
>>
>> If the DC disconnect was not required I would not be wasting everyone’s
>> time with my post.  I try to be careful about that, researching on my own
>> before posting and trying to make my questions very clear.  I also try not
>> to embarrass myself with dumb questions, but that does happen occasionally…
>>
>>
>>
>> William
>>
>>
>>
>> Miller Solar
>>
>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>
>> 805-438-5600
>>
>> www.millersolar.com
>>
>> CA Lic. 773985
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 27, 2023 11:46 AM
>> *To:* William Miller via RE-wrenches
>> *Cc:* Glenn Burt
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects
>>
>>
>>
>> Does the AHJ really want the batteries disconnected from conductors, or
>> does he really just want the inverters to stop operating and producing AC
>> within the house?
>>
>> Obviously there is a big difference here and it may be changing as the
>> code evolves.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Glenn
>>
>> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original message--
>>
>> *From: *William Miller via RE-wrenches
>>
>> *Date: *Fri, Jan 27, 2023 2:26 PM
>>
>> *To: *RE-wrenches;
>>
>> *Cc: *William Miller;
>>
>> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects
>>
>>
>>
>> Friends:
>>
>>
>>
>> We have a large-ish residential off-grid system install coming up.  The
>> AHJ has said they will require a remote battery disconnect.  I suspect
>> there will be fire sprinkler controls and a pressure pump that would become
>> inoperable if this system were engaged.  In this case we will apply for a
>> waiver.
>>
>>
>>
>> The last time this was discussed here as far as I can find was October of
>> 2020.  At that time no one suggested any specific battery disconnect
>> equipment.
>>
>>
>>
>> To further clarify my needs:  There will be 4 or 5 Radian 8048 inverters
>> (5 or 6 4/0 battery circuits, ~350A each) and two 175 amp PV recombiner
>> outputs.  That is 6 poles of high amperage DC disconnects.
>>
>>
>>
>> The battery array will be either a UnigyII VRLA or a lithium of a brand
>> yet to be determined.  In the case of lithium we will look for a system
>> that can remotely enable a BMS shutdown.  In the case of a VRLA lead-acid,
>> we will not have that luxury.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have done some considerable research and have not found viable, high
>> amperage, remotely activated shutdown equipment.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am wondering what hardware others may be using to achieve remote
>> battery disconnecting in these types of cases..
>>
>>
>>
>> William
>>
>>
>>
>> Miller Solar
>>
>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>
>> 805-438-5600
>>
>> www.millersolar.com
>>
>> CA Lic. 773985
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

2023-01-27 Thread William Miller via RE-wrenches 
Glenn:



As I wrote, a DC disconnect is required.  Here is an excerpt from the Q
with the building official:



4.   Will you be requiring an external disconnect to disconnect the AC
output of the inverter system from premise wiring?

Yes, as required per 230.85

5.   Will you be requiring an external disconnect to disconnect batteries
from the inverters?

Yes



If the DC disconnect was not required I would not be wasting everyone’s
time with my post.  I try to be careful about that, researching on my own
before posting and trying to make my questions very clear.  I also try not
to embarrass myself with dumb questions, but that does happen occasionally…



William



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches
*Sent:* Friday, January 27, 2023 11:46 AM
*To:* William Miller via RE-wrenches
*Cc:* Glenn Burt
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects



Does the AHJ really want the batteries disconnected from conductors, or
does he really just want the inverters to stop operating and producing AC
within the house?

Obviously there is a big difference here and it may be changing as the code
evolves.



-Glenn

Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.



-- Original message--

*From: *William Miller via RE-wrenches

*Date: *Fri, Jan 27, 2023 2:26 PM

*To: *RE-wrenches;

*Cc: *William Miller;

*Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects



Friends:



We have a large-ish residential off-grid system install coming up.  The AHJ
has said they will require a remote battery disconnect.  I suspect there
will be fire sprinkler controls and a pressure pump that would become
inoperable if this system were engaged.  In this case we will apply for a
waiver.



The last time this was discussed here as far as I can find was October of
2020.  At that time no one suggested any specific battery disconnect
equipment.



To further clarify my needs:  There will be 4 or 5 Radian 8048 inverters (5
or 6 4/0 battery circuits, ~350A each) and two 175 amp PV recombiner
outputs.  That is 6 poles of high amperage DC disconnects.



The battery array will be either a UnigyII VRLA or a lithium of a brand yet
to be determined.  In the case of lithium we will look for a system that
can remotely enable a BMS shutdown.  In the case of a VRLA lead-acid, we
will not have that luxury.



I have done some considerable research and have not found viable, high
amperage, remotely activated shutdown equipment.



I am wondering what hardware others may be using to achieve remote battery
disconnecting in these types of cases..



William



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

2023-01-27 Thread Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches 
I believe midnite still has the remote trip DC PNL  mount breakers, but of 
course, no birdhouse to make it work.
Not sure what the trip trigger needs either as far as voltage.

-MNEDC250RT

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St.
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.

On Jan 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Friends:

We have a large-ish residential off-grid system install coming up.  The AHJ has 
said they will require a remote battery disconnect.  I suspect there will be 
fire sprinkler controls and a pressure pump that would become inoperable if 
this system were engaged.  In this case we will apply for a waiver.

The last time this was discussed here as far as I can find was October of 2020. 
 At that time no one suggested any specific battery disconnect equipment.

To further clarify my needs:  There will be 4 or 5 Radian 8048 inverters (5 or 
6 4/0 battery circuits, ~350A each) and two 175 amp PV recombiner outputs.  
That is 6 poles of high amperage DC disconnects.

The battery array will be either a UnigyII VRLA or a lithium of a brand yet to 
be determined.  In the case of lithium we will look for a system that can 
remotely enable a BMS shutdown.  In the case of a VRLA lead-acid, we will not 
have that luxury.

I have done some considerable research and have not found viable, high 
amperage, remotely activated shutdown equipment.

I am wondering what hardware others may be using to achieve remote battery 
disconnecting in these types of cases..

William

Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com
CA Lic. 773985


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

2023-01-27 Thread Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches 
This was my first thought too.  An ac disconnect that is readily 
available that controls the ac conductors to the back up loads panel(s) 
would be less dangerous and has much less worries about it failing.  Chris


On 1/27/2023 2:45 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:
Does the AHJ really want the batteries disconnected from conductors, 
or does he really just want the inverters to stop operating and 
producing AC within the house?
Obviously there is a big difference here and it may be changing as the 
code evolves.


-Glenn
Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.

-- Original message--
*From: *William Miller via RE-wrenches
*Date: *Fri, Jan 27, 2023 2:26 PM
*To: *RE-wrenches;
*Cc: *William Miller;
*Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

Friends:

We have a large-ish residential off-grid system install coming up.  
The AHJ has said they will require a remote battery disconnect.  I 
suspect there will be fire sprinkler controls and a pressure pump that 
would become inoperable if this system were engaged.  In this case we 
will apply for a waiver.


The last time this was discussed here as far as I can find was October 
of 2020.  At that time no one suggested any specific battery 
disconnect equipment.


To further clarify my needs:  There will be 4 or 5 Radian 8048 
inverters (5 or 6 4/0 battery circuits, ~350A each) and two 175 amp PV 
recombiner outputs.  That is 6 poles of high amperage DC disconnects.


The battery array will be either a UnigyII VRLA or a lithium of a 
brand yet to be determined.  In the case of lithium we will look for a 
system that can remotely enable a BMS shutdown.  In the case of a VRLA 
lead-acid, we will not have that luxury.


I have done some considerable research and have not found viable, high 
amperage, remotely activated shutdown equipment.


I am wondering what hardware others may be using to achieve remote 
battery disconnecting in these types of cases..


William

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600 

www.millersolar.com 

CA Lic. 773985


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--
            Christopher Warfel
                 ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
                                401-466-8978


BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:4.0
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

2023-01-27 Thread Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches 
William
We have done 80 kwh Blue planet resi installs in the past (at the time this
was as large as we could go in resi) anyway the BMS has a push to start and
on/off buttons we just connected into them and we compliant, rotory switch
at 24 volts 10 mA is all that is needed, Now not all BMS.s can do this so
verify first, Fortress has a start up button but I am not sure if it is
serviceable like blue planet is.
Jerry

On Fri, Jan 27, 2023 at 11:26 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> We have a large-ish residential off-grid system install coming up.  The
> AHJ has said they will require a remote battery disconnect.  I suspect
> there will be fire sprinkler controls and a pressure pump that would become
> inoperable if this system were engaged.  In this case we will apply for a
> waiver.
>
>
>
> The last time this was discussed here as far as I can find was October of
> 2020.  At that time no one suggested any specific battery disconnect
> equipment.
>
>
>
> To further clarify my needs:  There will be 4 or 5 Radian 8048 inverters
> (5 or 6 4/0 battery circuits, ~350A each) and two 175 amp PV recombiner
> outputs.  That is 6 poles of high amperage DC disconnects.
>
>
>
> The battery array will be either a UnigyII VRLA or a lithium of a brand
> yet to be determined.  In the case of lithium we will look for a system
> that can remotely enable a BMS shutdown.  In the case of a VRLA lead-acid,
> we will not have that luxury.
>
>
>
> I have done some considerable research and have not found viable, high
> amperage, remotely activated shutdown equipment.
>
>
>
> I am wondering what hardware others may be using to achieve remote battery
> disconnecting in these types of cases..
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

2023-01-27 Thread Jay via RE-wrenches 
Good point Glenn. My question is if this system is in its own building. If so it is probably easier to convince the AHJ about not needing a remote battery disco. JayOn Jan 27, 2023, at 12:46 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches  wrote:








Does the AHJ really want the batteries disconnected from conductors, or does he really just want the inverters to stop operating and producing AC within the house?Obviously there is a big difference here and it may be changing as the code evolves.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.-- Original message--From: William Miller via RE-wrenchesDate: Fri, Jan 27, 2023 2:26 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: William
 Miller;Subject:[RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnectsFriends: We have a large-ish residential off-grid system install coming up.  The AHJ has said they will require a remote battery disconnect.  I suspect there will be fire sprinkler controls and a pressure pump that would become inoperable if this system were engaged.  In this case we will apply for a waiver. The last time this was discussed here as far as I can find was October of 2020.  At that time no one suggested any specific battery disconnect equipment.   To further clarify my needs:  There will be 4 or 5 Radian 8048 inverters (5 or 6 4/0 battery circuits, ~350A each) and two 175 amp PV recombiner outputs.  That is 6 poles of high amperage DC disconnects.     The battery array will be either a
 UnigyII VRLA or a lithium of a brand yet to be determined.  In the case of lithium we will look for a system that can remotely enable a BMS shutdown.  In the case of a VRLA lead-acid, we will not have that luxury. I have done some considerable research and have not found viable, high amperage, remotely activated shutdown equipment. I am wondering what hardware others may be using to achieve remote battery disconnecting in these types of cases.. William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  


___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

2023-01-27 Thread Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches 
Does the AHJ really want the batteries disconnected from conductors, or does he 
really just want the inverters to stop operating and producing AC within the 
house?Obviously there is a big difference here and it may be changing as the 
code evolves.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and 
spelling errors.-- Original message--From: William Miller via 
RE-wrenchesDate: Fri, Jan 27, 2023 2:26 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: William 
Miller;Subject:[RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnectsFriends: We have a 
large-ish residential off-grid system install coming up.  The AHJ has said they 
will require a remote battery disconnect.  I suspect there will be fire 
sprinkler controls and a pressure pump that would become inoperable if this 
system were engaged.  In this case we will apply for a waiver. The last time 
this was discussed here as far as I can find was October of 2020.  At that time 
no one suggested any specific battery disconnect equipment.   To further 
clarify my 
 needs: 
 There will be 4 or 5 Radian 8048 inverters (5 or 6 4/0 battery circuits, ~350A 
each) and two 175 amp PV recombiner outputs.  That is 6 poles of high amperage 
DC disconnects.     The battery array will be either a UnigyII VRLA or a 
lithium of a brand yet to be determined.  In the case of lithium we will look 
for a system that can remotely enable a BMS shutdown.  In the case of a VRLA 
lead-acid, we will not have that luxury. I have done some considerable research 
and have not found viable, high amperage, remotely activated shutdown 
equipment. I am wondering what hardware others may be using to achieve remote 
battery disconnecting in these types of cases.. William Miller Solar17395 Oak 
Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  ___
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[RE-wrenches] Remote battery disconnects

2023-01-27 Thread William Miller via RE-wrenches 
Friends:



We have a large-ish residential off-grid system install coming up.  The AHJ
has said they will require a remote battery disconnect.  I suspect there
will be fire sprinkler controls and a pressure pump that would become
inoperable if this system were engaged.  In this case we will apply for a
waiver.



The last time this was discussed here as far as I can find was October of
2020.  At that time no one suggested any specific battery disconnect
equipment.



To further clarify my needs:  There will be 4 or 5 Radian 8048 inverters (5
or 6 4/0 battery circuits, ~350A each) and two 175 amp PV recombiner
outputs.  That is 6 poles of high amperage DC disconnects.



The battery array will be either a UnigyII VRLA or a lithium of a brand yet
to be determined.  In the case of lithium we will look for a system that
can remotely enable a BMS shutdown.  In the case of a VRLA lead-acid, we
will not have that luxury.



I have done some considerable research and have not found viable, high
amperage, remotely activated shutdown equipment.



I am wondering what hardware others may be using to achieve remote battery
disconnecting in these types of cases..



William



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985
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