Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Batteries and IQ7+ Won't Restart

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

Out of curiosity, what battery form factor i.e. FLA, Lithium and
manufacturer are your OB inverters running on?

Christopher

On Mon, Sep 30, 2024, 19:52 Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hurricane Helene has taught us the hard way that Enphase batteries with
> anything other than IQ8's won't restart.
> The issue is that when the batteries try to restart (at the
> non-programmable time of 9:AM) if there are any significant loads, the
> batteries will not stay on long enough (300+ seconds) for any non-IQ8
> micros to energize. The battery will attempt multiple times, but if there
> is a load, (such as a well pump) the draw from the load will essentially
> prohibit the batteries from energizing the micros long enough to engage and
> produce. The only solution is to have a load controller or turn off all
> loads once the power goes out. Otherwise, during these "attempts to turn
> on" power in the house will momentarily turn on and back off and
> potentially drain the batteries down to lower than the point of which they
> can even attempt to restart. I spoke at length with Enphase upper
> engineering (not tech support) about this today. They now know that most of
> the tech support staff does not know this important information.
>
> Once the batteries are dead, they are very difficult if not impossible to
> jump start with a generator. At the recommendation of tech support we tried
> multiple times with the "approved" inverter generator which ultimatly just
> wasted our time. Even though the controller/switch will accept the gen
> power and pass the energy to the loads, it will not energize the combiner
> or batteries. If your goal is to have an autonomous system with Enphase,
> it's only going to happen with the IQ8's (at this point).
>
> This is a significant issue with retrofitting older systems.
>
> By the way:
> - We've received numerous desperate calls from (orphaned) Powerwall owners
> whose systems also won't turn back on.
> - ALL of our Outback systems were issue free.
>
> I hope this helps some of you. Good Luck out there!
>
> Wayne Irwin
> President
> License #CVC56695
> State Licensed Solar Contractor
> Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
> wa...@pureenergysolar.com
> PureEnergySolar.com 
> SolarChargingStation.com 
> 352 377-6527 Office
> 352 336-3299 Fax
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] favortie micro inverters?

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

Was an Enphase installer since the beginning, I think 08' but moved away
when the tech support and early model failures were numerous. Moved to APS
with the two modules per micro. Really saved on install time as it was half
the number of micro's. One recommendation regardless of brand, don't put
them on a roof.

Christopher

On Tue, Sep 24, 2024 at 11:14 AM Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I've had great luck with APS and so have our local installers.
>
> *Bryan Norkunas*
>
> *PV-Cables Inc.  *
>
> *989 Milton Ave Ste 1D *
>
> *Ferndale CA 95536*
>
> (707) 923-3000 office
>
> www.pv-cables.com
>
>
>
>
>
>  Please print only if necessary.
>
>
>
> NOTE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole use of the
> intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is
> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the
> sender by replying to this email, and destroy all copies of the original
> message.
>
>
> --
> *From:* RE-wrenches  on behalf
> of greg egan via RE-wrenches 
> *Sent:* Monday, September 23, 2024 7:29 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org  >
> *Cc:* greg egan 
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] favortie micro inverters?
>
> Esteemed wrenches,
>
> Have a client that is grid connected (not my usual client) and looking
> to do solar without back up.  Has shading issues so I'm thinking micros
> would work best for this application, plus take care of rapid shut down
> without needing extra devices/wiring.  Problem is I have not ever
> installed micros.
>
> Any recommendations on brands /models that have been reliable? Decent
> tech support?  Customer just wants something that works and is
> relatively simple to navigate the online monitoring.  Probably 4-5 kW so
> not a huge system.
>
> Thanks in advance, I appreciate it!
>
> Greg Egan
> Remote Power Inc.
> Fairbanks, AK
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Chris Schaefer’s


*Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
*5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
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"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
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Re: [RE-wrenches] ATS Brand Recommendations

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

I'm gonna add that the ASCO is the way to go. They offer both normal ATS
and with a service entrance rated breaker. I have dozens out there on GTBB
systems. What I really like about them is you can adjust a pot so that
there is little to no time delay in which the home switches over to
battery. Unlike a generator where you need a bit of time before the
connection. Clients have called to inform me that sometimes the switch over
happens so quickly their electronic devices aren't even aware of a grid
outage let alone the client themselves. That's my 2 cents.

Have a great weekend,
Christopher

On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 2:12 PM Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> We used to work with / recommend ASCO, but no longer. We had a site with
> dual ASC8000’s 400A 3 phase units switching between Gen 1 and Gen 2.
> Control board sensor problems arose and it failed to auto transfer back
> from Gen 2-1 due to sensor issues. Had to get client to open cabinet and
> affect a manual transfer.
>
>
>
> Despite having the extended warranty, they didn’t provide us service when
> requested. They also refused to sell us the board to replace. They didn’t
> refuse outright, just kept making appointments, failing to show up, one
> excuse after the other. The site was a 15 minute boat ride on a commercial
> water taxi and that was their latest excuse. Extremely unprofessional. We
> lost this client partially due to this.
>
>
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches  *On
> Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* September-20-24 8:45 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Cc:* Jerry Shafer 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] ATS Brand Recommendations
>
>
>
> Wrenches,
>
> If you are looking for a very good ATS, you need to look at ASCO that's
> what they do, from small less than 100 amp to high voltage multi 1000 amp
> units, they are a simple 2 wire start, l also use the Kohler products with
> no issues, l have AC Coupled off grid, DC Coupled on grid
>
> Fun times
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2024, 8:36 AM August Goers via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Sam -
>
>
>
> It's been probably 6 or 8 years since I've selected a 3rd party automatic
> transfer switch, but we used to use Briggs & Stratton products with good
> results:
>
>
>
>
> https://energy.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/homeowners/products/standby-generators/transfer-switches-and-accessories.html
>
>
>
> At least at the time, these had internal circuitry to do the transfer
> between grid and offgrid operation with a pre-programmed delay of about 10
> or 20 seconds. We paired these frequently with Sunny Islands.
>
>
>
> Now that the major ESS manufacturers have Microgrid Interconnect Devices
> (MIDs) for their systems, we don't have any reason to use these.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> August
>
> Luminalt
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 7:35 AM Sam Haraldson via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Wrenches,
>
>
>
> We are primarily a grid-tied solar EPC but like many solar companies have
> a long history with small off-grid installations.  In the past few years we
> have been tackling a handful of large, complex, grid-tied battery-backup
> systems (sub 90 kwh) range with some working flawlessly and some plagued
> with weekly quirks.  A weak link we've found in two of these installations
> was our choice to use Generac Automatic Transfer Switches.  In order for
> this ATS to sense a grid outage and perform its transfer it relies on
> circuitry built into a Generac generator as well as a source of 12v power
> (typically the generator start battery).
>
>
>
> One of our sites doesn't have a generator at all and the other does, but
> the grid sensing circuitry in the ATS is bypassed as we want the Sol-Arks
> to be the first-line of power during an outage and not the generator.  In
> order to accomplish this our electrician designed custom circuitry for grid
> sensing which is powered by a separate 12v source, has a 10 second delay,
> and flips the transfer switch during an outage placing the loads under the
> control of the Sol-Arks.
>
>
>
> Our initial design for these systems did not take into consideration that
> a Generac ATS doesn't have its own "brains" to grid sense and since we are
> now relying on a small custom circuit and a small external 12v power supply
> to act as a key player in an otherwise powerful and robust backup system we
> are second guessing our equipment choice.  What ATS solutions are Wrenches
> employing that we should be considering?
>
>
>
> TL;DR - what are the simplest ATS solutions that sense the grid
> (frequency, voltage, et al) and self-switch between backup and grid power
> automatically?
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Sam
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: OnSite Energy]
> 
>
> *SAM HARALDSON *
>
> Operations Specialist
>
> (406) 551-6135
>
> 1515 N. Rouse Ave Boze

Re: [RE-wrenches] Midnight solar AIO webinar

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

Here is the link to the webinar.

https://events.teams.microsoft.com/event/de1a7d33-2106-492a-8c2c-8d3306034410@98826d7a-c2a1-4ba2-8c22-90e0e69a026e

Christopher

On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 10:58 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> It’s on NAZ solar home page.
> It didn’t want to link
>
> Jay
>
> On Aug 13, 2024, at 8:44 AM, Kirpal Khalsa via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
> When? Info or link?
> Thanks
> Kirpal
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2024, 6:21 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> midnite is having a webinar about the AIO and batteries.
>> Sign up.
>> Jay
>> ___
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-- 

Chris Schaefer’s


*Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
*5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
*


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Another Mate 3 programming issues

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

Not sure if this helps but I had installed a full blown Outback  twin VFX
3648 with two MX60's with the old green cabinets back in 2005. Last year I
had to replace the two inverters with the new FXR as the VFX is
discontinued. In order to do this I had to dump the old oval mate and move
up to the Mate3s, as well as replace the old Hub 10.1 and use the newer
10.3. When all said and done, the Mate saw the old MX60's but you were
unable to make changes or access any data/settings. One other note, the 2nd
inverter goes on port 7 of the Hub, not port 2 as we've been use to in the
past.

Christopher

On Fri, Jul 19, 2024 at 12:30 PM jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> HI Chris,
>
> Can you give us more data?
>
> Like is this a new problem, or it only started after X?
>
> Since its not seeing the port ( NA) it could be the CC or the HUB, or the
> cable.
> the hub will show an active LED light if its connecting to anything on
> that port.
>
> You can try plugging into the CC directly to see if it reads it, probably
> easier with another mate.
>
> It just sucks to not have tech support or anyone on wrenches from some OEMS
>
> Jay
>
>
>
> On Jul 19, 2024, at 10:13 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> This is grid tied system with all firmware updates that the Mate 3s
> recognizes. I cannot figure this blank data menu out.  I have to program
> the battery ABS, FLOAT settings from the FM60 CC.  System is 12 years old
> so no Tech support available even if they answer the phone
>
> Has anyone have advice for if this is normal, or if there seems to be an
> issue? Used a spare Mate 3s with no difference.  Thank you, Chris
>
>
>
>
> --
>Christopher Warfel
>   ENTECH Engineering Inc.
>PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
>   401-477-5773
>  
>
> 
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Chris Schaefer’s


*Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
*5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
*


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Plaques

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

After years of having a local vendor do my engraving and using a couple of
different thermal printers, I settled on a Brady BMP 51 label printer. All
kinds of colors and UV protective labels. The machine remembers your labels
in a file and has battery backup. Definitely best to keep the labels out of
the sun when possible, but even so they are holding up very well. I've had
the unit for almost 10 years now. I don't recall the cost but it wasn't a
deal breaker for me.

Christopher

On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 9:43 AM Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hellermann Tyton seems to be big into labels. They also sell a thermal
> printer which is branded as theirs, but it can also be found at
> www.creativesafetysupply.com, branded as a Labeltac 4.0, at half the
> price of Hellerman. $699 at present vs. the $1,500 Hellerman. That's where
> I bought mine about 10 years ago. I used their MS Word label software to
> customize templates. They also sell blank label rolls including white on
> red reflective tape, UV resistant.
>
> I only used Hellerman generic write-on labels once. They were terrible,
> indelible pen bleached out within a year.
>
> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 7:58 AM Kirpal Khalsa via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Lou. .
>> We got the Express engraver.  All in it was around 5 grand.
>> We were spending over $ 1500 per year ar our local trophy engraving store
>> plus coordinating and they would go on vacation right when we needed
>> placards.  For us it made sense to bring this process in house.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024, 1:14 AM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Aloha Wrenches,
>>>
>>> Kirpal, I was looking at the Vision product line. What model did you
>>> purchase?
>>>
>>> We work out in the boonies and driving 35 minutes to town to pick up a
>>> $75 directory from the trophy shop is getting old.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2024, 5:48 PM Kirpal Khalsa via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
 Hi Lou and all.
 We dove all in and got a Vision Engraving machine. They offer several
 models and the most basic version works just fine.  It was a big investment
 but we can make our own placatds in the same day.
 We have a dedicated cheap laptop and a vacuum attachment they sell
 which keeps the work area clean.  There was a learning curve but we won
 after a bit.
 Its really nice to have and to have the flexibility makes that an
 aspect of job management  much less complicated. My guess is that it will
 take 3-4 years to pay for itself.
 We like having it and my only regret us that  we didnt get one sooner.

 On Sat, Mar 30, 2024, 11:57 AM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches <
 re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Aloha Wrenches,
>
> Anyone out there making their own engraved plaques and labels?
> If so, is it worth it and what machine are you using?
> Thanks for your time and insight, it is always appreciated.
>
> Aloha,
>
> Lou Russo
> Owner
> l...@spreesolarsystems.com
> 808 345 6762
> Spree Solar Systems LLC
> CT-34322
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] In search of better generator start relay for Outback system

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

G'day Dan,

I've been using the Dorman 5 pin, 30A 12v relay, p/n 88069 for several
years. I've found them at Auto Zone or sometimes I just buy them online.

Good Luck,
Christopher

On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 12:28 PM Dan Fink via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Esteemed Wrenches - Finally successfully troubleshot an intermittent AGS
> problem that has been nagging one of my remote-grid clients for 1.5 winters
> now. Of course it's a 4-hour drive from my office.
>
> During winter snowstorms (when they need the AGS the most of course) the
> generator had only about 50:50 chance of starting. So I'd travel to the
> site (sometimes just the client would do it and I'd guide him by phone),
> pull up the Gen menu on the Mate 3S, hit ON and it wouldn't start. No
> bueno. Walk up to the generator (propane with Honda engine) and verify it's
> on Auto. Start it with the main switch to ON, starts right up, so not a gen
> battery problem. Run it for an hour or so, stop it with the switch on the
> gen, put it back to Auto, and everything works perfectly from Mate 3S AGS
> for 1-2 days, including remote start from OpticsRE. Then the problem
> (sometimes) comes up again when nobody is there.
>
> I just happened to hit the site at exactly the right time last week right
> as a big snowstorm was moving in, and was finally able to figure it out
> with really good raingear and a multimeter: The Outback Flexware remote gen
> start relay OBR-16-DIN was icing up internally, I had added it in the gen
> compartment when we upgraded the client from an old Trace SW  to an Outback
> (SW had a big AGS relay, Outback sent a 12VDC signal to trigger the
> external relay we added).
>
> DIAG - new Outback OBR-16-DIN relay would get frosty internally when high
> humidity snowstorms would move in, that's why it sometimes didn't work from
> the Mate 3S or OpticsRE. Run the gen for an hour, the internal gen
> compartment warms up, the frost melts off of the relay, then all the AGS
> from Mate 3S and OpticsRE works fine.
>
> Have any of all y'all run into this problem, and is there a more reliable
> relay to use that won't ice up? not outside exposed to weather, but inside
> the outside gen enclosure. I have zero space available in the VFX  MNDC
> enclosure in the house to put in the Flexware AGS relay, it would need a
> separate enclosure.
>
> The easiest solution I can see is just find a relay to fit into the gen
> compartment that does the same as the Outback version, but doesn't ice up.
>
> Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.
>
> Dan Fink
> Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
> IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation
> NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
> NABCEP PV Associate
> d anbo...@gmail.com
> 970-672-4342
>
>
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-- 

Chris Schaefer’s


*Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
*5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
*


Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said,
"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium batteries

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

Ray,

Oddly enough we're getting ready to replace our 22 year old 48v bank of
Rolls Surrette batteries at our offgrid Design and Training Center in
Western NY with a set of Lithium batteries.The reason for the jump to
Lithium is because of the numerous request by clients for them over the
past 5 year or so. By having them here onsite, this will give us a window
into how they truly operate over time.

Three questions I always ask manufacturers are, can the BMS firmware be
upgraded in the field and/or can the BMS be swapped out in the field? Also
is an internet connection required in order to receive warranty? FYI, Rolls
lithium product is field swappable and does not require an internet
connection. It seems every time we get close to making a choice on which
lithium manufacturer to use something seems to steer us away.

I couldn't agree more with Ray's statement. "but lead acid are a known
quantity, and with proper maintenance are quite robust and predictable.
Even when they fail, there are plenty of warning signs beforehand." Perhaps
what the lithium manufacturers need to do is provide us installers with a
"tool" that gives us a window into the BMS perhaps via a laptop. Maybe it
already exists.

A couple of years back we backed out of a couple of projects due to the
fact the clients insisted on a lithium battery. I declined the projects as
the temperature environment was wrong amongst other reasons too. I followed
up with both projects a year later and both projects failed miserably and
as Ray called it, the inverter manufacturer pointed the finger to the
battery manufacturer and vice versa.

Keep up the great work everyone and don't forget to donate to the wrenches
list.

Your Friendly Neighborhood Solar Guy,
Christopher

On Thu, Feb 8, 2024 at 8:46 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi Ray
>
> I’m going more and more with same oem for systems with lithium.
> Specifically so I don’t have an issue with finger pointing between OEMS.
>
> But that sure sucks.
>
> Jay
>
>
>
> On Feb 7, 2024, at 10:17 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> We just had a complete failure of a set of four Simpliphi 3.8 KWh
> batteries, 48 v.  It has completely changed my thoughts on Li+ for off
> grid.  This set lasted 5 years, which is about equal to bottom of the
> barrel Golf Cart batteries.  The RMA/ Warranty process has not been
> smooth.  It took almost a week to even get shipping info from Simpliphi,
> and then another week to deal with Hazmat issues, and get Fed Ex to accept
> used Li+ batteries for shipment.  To their credit, tech support has been
> knowledgeable, responsive, and available by phone while on site.
>
>  Overall, the system worked fine for 5 years, but then a month ago, after
> several days of cloudy weather, the system shut down due to low voltage.
> (so far, fairly typical off grid winter situation) When the customer
> started the generator and tried to revive the system, he noticed one of the
> batteries didn't seem to be taking a charge, so after consulting with
> Simpliphi, he charged each battery separately with a small aux charger.  I
> checked this charger and it was quite stable at a max of 58 v.  By the time
> I arrived, all 4 batteries would not accept even milliamps of charge
> current. The BMSs had all disconnected the batteries from the buss, but
> strangely there was residual voltage (51vdc) on the terminals.  It was not
> usable however, and crashed to 18 v upon connection to the inverter with no
> loads.
>
> Simpliphi is claiming all the BMS units were fried due to a high voltage
> event.  Its winter, there was no lightning, and we had both the Outback
> FM100 and the Schneider XW programmed according to the Simpliphi
> integration guides.   BTW, Simpliphi has no high voltage recording, they
> just don't like the look of how their electronics fried. Electronics failed
> = customer's fault.  I think it failed because of the voltage differential
> between the low battery voltage and normal charge voltage.  If  the BMS
> can't survive in a typical off grid environment, with proper programming on
> industry standard equipment, its not suitable for off grid applications.
> Plenty of manus have decided to quit recommending their equipment for off
> grid; its a tough gig.
>
> How many times have we all heard the old '*Manu S blaming Manu X'* snafu
> on this list?  Simpliphi is saying that the XW can have transient over
> voltage events.  Well, that should be mentioned in the integration guide,
> so we can make an informed decision, and not use that inverter with their
> batteries.
>
> So after paying about 5 times what a set of golf cart batteries would have
> cost, my client is looking at having to buy a complete new set.  That's
> approx. *$1.60/ kWh of use from the old set*.  Simpliphi is saying
> they'll give us a discount on refurbished units; that is still to be seen.
> The customer has been running on an old

Re: [RE-wrenches] State of Charge Meter for Sol-Ark

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

Why not revert to the tried, trued and tested Trimetric 2030 from Bogart
engineering? I miss the old 2020 units that we installed on every off grid
system back in the day.

Christopher

On Sun, Feb 4, 2024 at 11:38 AM Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Cheap tablet mounted to the wall?
>
> -Glenn
> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
>
> -- Original message--
> *From: *Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
> *Date: *Sun, Feb 4, 2024 10:30 AM
> *To: *RE-wrenches;
> *Cc: *Jason Szumlanski;
> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] State of Charge Meter for Sol-Ark
>
> Are there any off the shelf solutions to view battery SOC via a wired
> meter mounted remotely on a property? I have a client with a simple voltage
> based meter for lead acid batteries that they are accustomed to using as a
> quick and approximate gauge of SOC. They want something similar for their
> new Sol-Ark with EG4 LL batteries.
>
> They will have smartphone app visibility, but they want something they can
> see inside the house without picking up a phone or going out to the
> inverter. Ideally the SOC will come from the inverter or the battery
> itself, not an external source (to avoid discrepancies).
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
> ___
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-- 

Chris Schaefer’s


*Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
*5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
*


Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said,
"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

I'd be curious to know of the connector failures y'all have experienced,
were the majority of these roof mounts?
Just wondering if with better air flow like that of a pole/ground mount, if
that helped to minimize connector failure.

Christopher

On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 1:21 AM Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Ray,
>
> Exactly the same thing happened for me on a ground mount
> system, 3500 feet elevation the the Sierras so open cooler air, fully
> engaged MC4 factory connectors PV to PV connectors with SW285's, not
> passing current, melted.  No attempt to contact SW just made up new
> connectors.
>
> My calculation is with anything that is no doubt made up by
> the bazillion with a machine (connectors, light bulbs, pencils, chicken
> nuggets, etc) you're going to get some duds.  In 20+ years of installing
> PVs with factory made-up connectors, I've only seen this happen 2-3 times.
> Installing in the mountains we no doubt use ground mount much more often
> than most installs in urban areas which would make a hot, melted connector
> possibly more of an issue a couple inches above a comp or wood roof.  We've
> never seen any connectors fail beyond the melted/deformed but still
> "contained" stage .
>
> Back when SW was first transitioning from one connector to
> another, I remember them saying they (I think it was UTX and MC or was it
> UTX and Amphenol?) were compatible.  We NEVER mixed connectors despite
> their claim.
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> 4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
> 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
> Taylorsville, CA  95983
> 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
> CA. C10 Lic # 874049
> Solar Powered since 1982
> Home of the Sunny Side Up
>
> On 11/9/2023 4:31 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> I'm trying to find a pic to post, but they were MC4 connectors, not the
> UTX.
>
> Ray
> On 11/9/2023 4:57 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:
>
> Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them, sounds like
> about the right timeframe.
>
> BREAKING: SolarWorld recalls PV modules with Amphenol connectors
> 
> pv-magazine-usa.com
> 
>
> 
>
>
> Brian
>
> On Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches
>  
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> 12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors might.  I
> just went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had a bad series MC
> connector (module to module).  It got quite crispy, deforming and bubbling
> the plastic on both sides of the connection.  It was still passing current;
> I didn't get a chance to measure the volt drop.  It was completely plugged
> in, so not an installation issue.
>
> This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these were
> Solarworld factory connectors on both sides, same model modules.  That also
> means no mismatch of "MC4" connector type.
>
> 10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter than ambient temp,
> all are tough on connectors.  I predict more connector failures as module
> current ratings increase.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Good luck trying to convince your customer that their house caught on fire
> because of a manufacturers flaw, and you have no responsibility for it…
>
> It may be an out to shift the blame, but it only makes everybody get some
> on them…
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches 
>  *On Behalf Of *William Miller
> via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> 
> *Cc:* William Miller  
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC
> interpretation/guidance?
>
>
>
> George:
>
>
>
> Appliance manufacturers have their own requirements that are not the same
> as the NEC requirements.  As long as you are not modifying the manufactured
> assembly you are not responsible for compliance of that appliance.  By
> appliance, I mean the solar module, microinverter, etc.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *George McClellan via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Cc:* George McClellan
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC
> interpretation/guidance?
>
>
>
> Team;
>
>
>
> With the move to larger cells, some modules have an Isc that is pushing
> the limits of 12 AWG wire.  If I apply the rule of 156% (or 125% solar
> derate*125% continuous load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc module this will
> exceed the 25A that

[RE-wrenches] Schneider BTS

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

G'day All,

Having a difficult time locating a distributor for Schneider BTS cables for
a twin set of XW Pro 6848's. Schneider will not sell these to installers.
Please provide me with a source/supplier.

Much Appreciated,
Christopher-

Chris Schaefer’s


*Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
*5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
*


Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said,
"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Propane range options for off-grid?

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

When it comes to stove/ovens, been using and recommending Roper by
Whirlpool for almost 20 years without issues for our offgrid clientele as
well as our own offgrid home and shop/office. Zero electric required.

Your Friendly Neighborhood Solar Guy,
Christopher

On Tue, Sep 26, 2023 at 7:33 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches
 wrote:

> Happiness is a great stove! Can I get the Viking model number Dana. Please PM 
> or Wrench it!
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
>https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
>   
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
>
> On 2023-09-26 4:16 pm, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Our 6 burner Viking only draws 15 watts off-grid, just saying J one form
> of happiness is  a great stove!
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Dana Orzel  c- 2087217003   e – d...@solarwork.com
>
>
>
> ___
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-- 

Chris Schaefer’s


*Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
*5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
*


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"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashing Identification

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

Oh my. Well at least there are palm trees in the background, lol.

Christopher

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 5:36 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Obviously, this is wrong on so many levels, but can someone identify the
> flashings in the attached picture?
>
> Looks like I'm taking on another charity case.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Phased out Schneider Electric SCP

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

akin to outback and their FM100 charger controller with no display. I use
the Midnite classic 200 instead.

Christopher

On Tue, Apr 4, 2023 at 11:34 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches
 wrote:

> Thanks Glen !  I will ask him on Thursday at a webinar.
>
>
> Register here:
>
> https://solar.se.com/us/en/event/webinar-backup-control-switch-launch/
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
>
> On 2023-04-03 7:14 pm, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Eric Benstennof SE demoed a pretty slick replacement that he cobbled
> together from off the shelf parts using a small tablet.
> I saw it in Jan at an Alt-E installer conference.
> I think I might have the details somewhere in my files, but it is
> basically an inexpensive android tablet, a USB charging wart usingneither
> WiFi or a USB type c Ethernet and power adaptwr and a wall mount for the
> tablet
>
> -Glenn
> Sent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.
>
> -- Original message--
> *From: *Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches
> *Date: *Mon, Apr 3, 2023 7:31 PM
> *To: *RE-wrenches;
> *Cc: *Mac Lewis;
> *Subject:*[RE-wrenches] Phased out Schneider Electric SCP
>
> Hello Wrenches,
>
> Now that Schneider has phased out SCP, what are the options for a GUI
> onsite for non-savvy consumers?
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
>
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 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Battery Heater

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

Ray,

I'd suggest reaching out to the Fortress techie's as they just introduced a
heater product for their enclosure products. While I don't believe they
have a unit specif to the eVault but you should be able to make it work.

Christopher

On Wed, Feb 8, 2023 at 6:43 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Pet heater have worked for me, I air gap a sealed heater box under the
> battery, thermostat inside the top of the battery.  It's slow and low power
> but does the trick
> Fun times
>
> On Wed, Feb 8, 2023, 3:05 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi All;
>>
>> I have a fresh Fortress Evault installation with a Solark inverter.  The
>> batteries are indoors in the center of the house, but the customer is
>> not there full time, so the battery is unfortunately going below
>> freezing.  What are the best options for setting up a heating system for
>> the E Vault?
>>
>> Here are ideas that I have not tried, but am considering:
>> 1) add a 240 v, 1000 w baseboard heater in the room near the battery
>> that is wired to only run off the generator.  Run the generator until
>> the heat comes up, and then hopefully after 30 minutes, the battery
>> would begin accepting a charge.
>>
>> 2) Add an 120 vac heating blanket under the evault that would be wired
>> to a thermostat, but also have a relay control from the PV system, so
>> that the heater would only operate when the sun was out, and the battery
>> was below 50F.   I don't quite know how to set this up with the Solark's
>> load controls.
>>
>> I've considered some DC options, but they don't make much sense, since
>> the inverter has to be on to charge from PV anyway.
>>
>> The long term plan is for the client to finish the insulation, and sheet
>> rock, and add a gas wall heater in there as needed.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> in the Colorado mountain cold.
>>
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 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

Michael,

Any pictures of that bracing system pre battery mount would be greatly
appreciated.

Christopher

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 3:21 PM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> We hang a lot of AES on wooden stud walls. Our engineer prescribed the
> following: 1-5/8" strut bolted to every stud in the span. AES factory
> mounting brackets bolted with 3/8" grade 8 bolts and thick strut cone nuts.
> Then a support brace 3-1/4" strut which is (2) welded back to back 1-5/8"
> struts (think beam) supported by the same 3-1/4" strut (think legs) with
> strut post bases and plate connectors for connections. He said "now way" to
> relying on studs for anything beyond two batteries.
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 5:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES
>> batteries on a wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud
>> wall is a bulky 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost
>> a ton of battery on the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other
>> install photos, however I can’t seem to find and good building code that
>> would inform my decision.
>>
>> Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that
>> might help?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> -Chris
>> --
>> Chris Sparadeo
>>
>>
>> C_802-369-4458
>> H_802-728-3059
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>
> --
>
> Michael Morningstar
>
>
> Morningstar Electric
>
> PO Box 1494
>
> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>
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>
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>
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 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] wire management on Qcell AC module

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

G'day All

I rarely do roofs but I can tell you with my pole, ground or DAT projects
it's nearly impossible to cover the modules with a screening product for
safety reasons. I refuse to use the mid panel j-box modules. I'm not one
for boycotts but just use the old school modules with the j-box mounted on
the portrait end. Thus when the modules aren't moving perhaps the
manufactures will reach out and ask us installers/engineers as to why. Yeah
right, lol.

Christopher

On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 11:44 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I didn't snap a photo yesterday, but next week I will certainly take some
> photos, and report back on what we figure out. Definitely sounds like tape
> is not a permanent solution.
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 11:39 AM Jerry Shafer 
> wrote:
>
>> Regarding the tape on the back sheet
>> I have seen Novis installers keep the tape to secure the modules and I
>> have also seen it with the tape stll attached to the wires laying on the
>> roof so in my humble opinion the tape is for shipping only and is not to be
>> used as a wire management system.
>> Jerry
>> NABCEP PV Inspector
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2022 at 6:37 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I just got some of the Qcell 360w AC modules that have the Enphase
>>> microinverter factory applied to the back. The module is the half cut cell
>>> type with the DC leads coming from either side of the middle of the module.
>>> The modules come with the wires taped to the back of the module. If you
>>> remove that tape, there appears to be almost no way to properly manage
>>> those wires. Is that tape meant to just keep the wire on the back of the
>>> module forever? Would that even last more than a year? I am curious what
>>> other people have done for these if they have used them or something
>>> similar. Maybe if you get the rail in the right spot, the wires will just
>>> sit on the rail...
>>>
>>> I realize that we have had a thread on wire management with half cut
>>> cell modules before, but this is a little different, as I am specifically
>>> asking about that tape and if anyone knows if it holds up over time.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> --
>>> [image: Logo] 
>>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
>>> Owner | Sungineer Solar
>>> p: he | him | his
>>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
>>> w: www.sungineersolar.com 
>>> c: (607) 288-2898
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>
> --
> [image: Logo] 
> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
> Owner | Sungineer Solar
> p: he | him | his
> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850
> w: www.sungineersolar.com 
> c: (607) 288-2898
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 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Battery Rack Options

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

Hey Michael,

Any chance you might share a couple of pictures of the project you
discussed?

Christopher

On Sun, Mar 27, 2022 at 11:44 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> We almost always use the AES brackets. Often mounted to strut. You want
> access to the on/off button, so some exposed conductor is inevitable. We
> have also fabricated shelves for them to sit on. For 2 or more batteries in
> multiples of two, we stack them so that the bottom battery has its
> terminals facing up, and the top battery with terminals facing down. With
> large banks, like the one we are currently building with we placed both a
> 10" X 10" X 20' long gutter with 3/8" x 4" bussbars running the entire
> length, and for comms (2) 2.5" X 2.5" x 20" gutters(top and bottom) between
> the upper and lower stacks of batteries. Cables wrap back and into the back
> of the gutters. It's very clean. In a few instances, we have left the
> batteries sitting on the pallet bases they shipped on when budgets are
> super tight or no wall space is available.
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 6:28 AM Chris Sparadeo 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Wrenches,
>>
>> Wondering how people are installing the Discover AES. I get that they can
>> be floor or wall mounted, but I'm trying to avoid exposed conductors and a
>> rack seems like the best option. Any insights?
>>
>> Kindly,
>>
>> Chris Sparadeo
>>
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> --
>
> Michael Morningstar
>
>
> Morningstar Electric
>
> PO Box 1494
>
> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>
> 530-921-0560
>
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>
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 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
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