Re: [RE-wrenches] SDHW and High Mains Pressure
Hi Peter, There are some hi end units that are really nice. Takagi, Rennai are the two that come to mind that are really amazing. They have digital remote controlls and are are designed to mounted outside, which saves a lot of interior space, cost of reworking the flue etc. Jay Peltz power On Dec 7, 2008, at 3:22 PM, Peter Parrish wrote: We are getting ready to install a SDHW system for a customer and we looked at a number of things regarding his current set up. I just posted a question about tankless heaters but I wanted this query to be a separate one. The customer’s mains water pressure is 88 psi on a Saturday afternoon and some time over the next 18 hours, the pressure went as high as 96 psi. I understand that 80 psi is the high end of the safe range in general and that 96 psi on a regular basis can/will damage valves and possibly trigger TP valves on water heaters. At the recommendation of a plumber I know I looked into pressure reducers, specifically the Wilkins/Zurn line. All the Wilkins regulators produce zero pressure drop at zero flow. What good are these products in protecting plumbing systems from high mains pressures at night when pressures tend to be the highest and usage is at a minimum or even zero? Are there products that will prevent system pressures from exceeding a set point (e.g. 60 psi) under any flow condition including zero? - Peter Peter T. Parrish, President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling - SI and SB
HI Chris, I've been give some glowing reports from a company that uses them for telecomm sites, many in very hostile environments and they seem to hold up really well, and yes the price point is very good. I've got a 3100amphr at 48v going in off grid in Baja next year and the Unigy II are what I'm using. Hope this helps, jay peltz power On Nov 28, 2008, at 10:25 AM, Chris Worcester wrote: Hi Todd, We are looking into the new East Penn Deka Unigy ll sealed batteries. They seem to be a good deal less money than the GNB’s. Anyone have any experience with these? I agree with you if we are to use a smaller group 27/31 size AGM battery but these big industrial cells should go the distance if they work as advertised. Do you have any experience with the Unigy ll batteries? Sincerely, Chris Worcester NABCEP Certified PV Installer Phone: 530-582-4503 Fax: 530-582-4603 www.solarwindworks.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Proven Energy Solutions From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:40 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling - SI and SB Maintenance free might mean replacing them after about 5 or 6 years rather than 15 to 20. Todd On Wednesday, November 26, 2008 1:41pm, Chris Worcester [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I will look at these for other jobs, our client wants maintenance free on this one though. Sincerely, Chris Worcester NABCEP Certified PV Installer Phone: 530-582-4503 Fax: 530-582-4603 www.solarwindworks.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Proven Energy Solutions ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling
Hi Dana, So is the issue that any 120v 60 hz units are all the US versions, or do they have 120v 60 hz international versions ( probably non UL)? My asking is that I've got some large projects in Baja that could use full feature and larger stacking than the US version. thanks, jay peltz power On Nov 26, 2008, at 1:32 PM, Dana Brandt wrote: Thanks for the report, Steve. I'm also a huge fan of the European SI. We need to be careful when we start to compare operations across the ocean. The US version of the SI is a bit different from the European version. SMA in Germany decided that the full-featured SI would be too expensive for the US market, so they sent us a stripped down, cheaper version. The US version still has some nice features, but it has some limitations when compared to the full-featured European version. One of the brilliant aspects of the full-featured SI is the multi-master operation. I wrote a little bit on the SI for AC minigrids and the multi-master operation in HP 109 - Oct/Nov 2005. It's frustrating to me that SMA hasn't UL listed a full- featured SI for us in the States, but they must figure it doesn't make financial sense for them. Dana -- Dana Brandt Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC www.ecotechenergy.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] 360.510.0433 On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:20 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tump, Yes, the SI SB system is all it's cracked up to be! I'm not sure what is possible in the US but we've been running a 60kW Sunny Island system for over a year now which powers the Scottish Isle of Eigg and uses PV's with Sunny Boys, wind turbines with Windy Boys, 100kW hydro turbine back-up diesel generation. Power is distributed around the island at 3.3kV three-phase using step-up step-down transformers. The generation is located at various parts of the island (as are the houses loads) with the Sunny Islands/Battery Store back-up diesels roughly in the middle. See our website for a full description: http://www.windandsun.co.uk/projects_eigg.htm The Sunny Island inverters use 'Frequency Shift Power Control' - variations in island grid frequency to communicate control signals to the generation sources and to bonus loads. If the batteries cannot absorb the renewable power being generated onto the network (if they are full, or the power generated exceeds the inverter/charger capacity), the Sunny Island inverters raise the system frequency. Sunny Boy Windy Boy inverters are set to 'Off-Grid' mode to respond to this frequency rise and back off power being fed into the system. Other renewable generation (eg. hydro turbines) that is able to respond to this frequency rise to restrict their power output can also be incorporated in the system. The raised frequency can also be used to trigger switching on of bonus loads when there is surplus renewable energy output. The great thing about using this frequency shift for control is that no communication cabling, special circuits or dedicated switching is required and distance is no problem. The other great thing about using the Sunny Island system is that it allows use of the Sunny Webbox for remote monitoring. This means every morning I can check on the internet to see how the system is performing, view state of charge of batteries, and dial in to change things if needed. Furthermore, several people can do this at once - eg. system owners SMA technical support - so we can all look at what's been happening and discuss any events. (I'm sure you all know how useful this can be!) As an example the attached Word document shows how the frequency shift works in practice (Hope it's Ok to send attachments on this list) Regards Steve Wade From: Tump [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'RE-wrenches' re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date sent: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 08:33:38 -0500 Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling Send reply to:RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrenches.org?subject=unsubscribe mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Matt, I have long been interested in installing the SMA SI SBs but I have a VERY tough time selling $9ks worth of inverters, just to get things started. In the system below I would not of hesitated in installing the SMA SI SB! I too agree that w/this type of scenario described below, I would have given quite a bit of thought to using the SMAs. Can't beat the battery charging, no charge controllers expandability. Please if there is someone out there that has had experience w/ the SMA SI SB let us know if it is all that it is cracked up to be! With passport in hand, I offer my help if someone out there has a large system like this, that will be using the SI SB/WB type of set up. TUMP Wind Sun Ltd., Humber Marsh, Stoke Prior, Leominster, Herefordshire, HR6 0NR. Web: www.windandsun.co.uk Tel: 01568 -760671 Fax: 01568-760484 The latest edition of the Wind
Re: [RE-wrenches] NEC compliant solar labels
Hi Joel, I believe AEE sells them as well, jay peltz power On Nov 21, 2008, at 12:42 PM, Joel Davidson wrote: Tyco makes solar labels. See www.tycoelectronics.com/AboutUs/news/getpdf.asp?id=1363f=solar_labels_flyer_final.pdf At least one reseller offers the labels. See http://store.altenergystore.com/Enclosures-Electrical-and-Safety/NEC-Compliant-Safety-Labels/NEC-Compliant-Grid-Tie-Safety-Labels/p6618/ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] inverters/ generators and noise
Hi Bob, Do you have any numbers as to what the HZ where or where you think it worked best? thanks, jay peltz power On Nov 20, 2008, at 3:38 AM, robert ellison wrote: Probably due to the load of the charger, try changing the rpm a little (higher) if you can. Might help. I have had stoves that wouldn't light under full charger load. They did better at a somewhat higher rmp (frequency) Bob On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 12:12 AM, jay peltz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, here is along those same lines a question about line noise. System 15kw diesel generator 4 stack outback at 24v 120v/240vac 3000 amp hr industrial batteries. when genny running, 59.5-60 hz voltage 122/244 Symptoms. when charging there is some buzzing on some electrical equipment in the house. Stove pizeo won't lite, transformer on furnace runs hot, Fridge makes more noise. Seems to get worse at end of charge cycle. Now, with inverter only, no noise, humm, buzz etc. With Genny only no buzz, humm, etc. Any advice? thanks, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Shoes
Hi mark, Best I've seen is like Converse Allstars, big wide flat sole. But the felt fishing boot, although really hot, but great idea. What about gluing the felt to a pair of regular shoes? jay peltz power On Nov 20, 2008, at 1:29 PM, Mark Frye wrote: Any thoughts on the best type of shoe for working on comp shingle roof? Good traction, least wear and tear on shingles? Has anyone tried a felt soled fishing boot? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] inverters/ generators and noise
Hi All, here is along those same lines a question about line noise. System 15kw diesel generator 4 stack outback at 24v 120v/240vac 3000 amp hr industrial batteries. when genny running, 59.5-60 hz voltage 122/244 Symptoms. when charging there is some buzzing on some electrical equipment in the house. Stove pizeo won't lite, transformer on furnace runs hot, Fridge makes more noise. Seems to get worse at end of charge cycle. Now, with inverter only, no noise, humm, buzz etc. With Genny only no buzz, humm, etc. Any advice? thanks, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] grid-tie inverters generators
Hi Kelly It is an interesting issue and was just dicussing this the other day. I think what happens if the inverter backfeeds the genny, the generator voltage will go up, if it goes up enough, it will go outside the window of the inverter and the inverter will drop out, voltage will them return to normal, inverter will reconnect and repeat. But I sure wouldn't want to fix the generator. A relay powered from the grid will take care of the problem. jay peltz power On Nov 19, 2008, at 5:24 PM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind wrote: Wrenches, I'm dredging up this subject again (previous postings 6/08) with a simple question that doesn't seem to have been answered: Is there any issue connecting a batteryless grid-tie PV system to the load side of a panel that is backed-up by a generator on an automatic transfer switch, when the grid is down and the generator running? In this case the PV is 5.7kW, the inverter an SMA 6000, the generator unknown size/type, but propane, automatic start, and backing up the entire main panel. SMA tech support first said it's OK, then that the generator will blow up. I can imagine, if the inverter tries to sync with the inverter, that the voltage could rise, causing the inverter to disconnect, wait 5 minutes, repeat. Is there anything nasty that could happen? Thanks, -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind, LLC Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer 987 Wanamaker Rd, Coupeville, WA 98239 PH FAX 360-678-7131 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] battery box fan
Hi Larry, I suggest you get a 12v fan, make it easy. jay peltz power On Nov 7, 2008, at 1:29 PM, Larry Brown wrote: Wrenches. On an upgrade to an existing system, we just installed a Xantrex XW6048 inverter. We have a 48 volt dc battery box vent fan that we used to run through the relay on the old SW5548. The XW6048 has a 12 vdc aux output so I assume we need to install a relay to run the fan, 12vdc input, that will allow 48 vdc output Any suggestions on what relay to use? Thanks Larry Brown Sun Mountain ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] mate/flexnet
HI All, Can you run the mate just with the flexnet,and no inverters, CC or hub? thanks, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] mate/flexnet
Hi Phil, OK thanks, jay peltz power On Nov 6, 2008, at 7:37 AM, Phil Undercuffler wrote: Unfortunately, no. I have a single FX in my home system, and when I wanted to add the FN-DC I had to add a Hub Mate too. The inverter (or charge controller) provides power to the hub, and the hub sends the info to the Mate. Phil Undercuffler Director, Battery-based and Off-grid Distribution Sales Group Conergy Our World Is Full of Energy 1730 Camino Carlos Rey Suite 103 Santa Fe, NM 87507 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Direct | 505.216.3841 Toll Free | 888.396.6611 x4841 Fax | 505.473.3830 www.conergy.us -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:15 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] mate/flexnet HI All, Can you run the mate just with the flexnet,and no inverters, CC or hub? thanks, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] crystalline VS uni-solar
Hi Geoff, In regards to the performance between Unisolar and crystalline, there is a side by side ( same watts, batteryless intertie with metering) installation up here on the North coast of California, and the the Unisolar is the constant under-performer. This includes cloudy, sunny, warm, cold weather. I have seen nothing in the field to support the Unisolar claims about better performance in low light etc. That said, they do work better in very hot conditions, if thats what you have. jay peltz power On Oct 31, 2008, at 8:08 AM, Geoff Greenfield wrote: As a follow up to my uni-solar post (and thanks to all who provided feedback), I have a second request: Any references to recent side-by side shoot-outs between Unisolar and conventional crystaline PV? Scientific studies? Your own wrench thoughts? I am more and more often encountering confused customers that are considering unisolar systems at zero-tilt (we are at 40 degrees N), with plenty of partial shading, after getting a pitch about all sorts of advantages of Uni-Solar. I think that this product has it's role and I occasionally sell it... But I am frustrated when I truly believe I can deliver a better net energy production with a tilted crystalline solution (avoiding the shaded areas). For a brighter energy future, Geoff Greenfield Founder and CEO Third Sun Solar Wind Power Ltd. 340 West State Street, Unit 25 Athens, OH 45701 740.597.3111 Fax 740.597.1548 www.Third-Sun.com Clean Energy - Expertly Installed ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] evergreen panels diode problems
Hi Peter, What I'm curious about is at what voltage does this occur. 48, 160??? I have 3 in series on a ungrounded system for 2 years now and are working just fine. Output is what is should be and no problems. I know that Sunpower has a white paper that shows at lower voltages there is no problem, but above 180v ( if memory serves) there are problems. jay peltz power On Sep 22, 2008, at 10:01 AM, ASAP POWER! 2 wrote: Bill, I think Doug P. actually sent this to us. Hope attachments work on this list. I think I've seen them before in my inbox from others, but if not, request off-line. Peter D. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:28 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] evergreen panels diode problems Doug, I'd like to see the bulletin about why they could not positively ground their modules. It seems quite odd. Positively grounding a module in general should have no effect on a typical module. As to why it helps the SunPower module, they have an explanation, but I'm not convinced it is true--it just works--and that is all that matters. Bill. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Pratt Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 5:25 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] evergreen panels diode problems Jay, there was a bulletin from Evergreen earlier this year about their modules being used in positive ground systems. I don't remember the exact details (and I'm not at work now), but the gist was avoid positive ground till we make some modifications. Please check w/Evergreen on Monday. -Doug Pratt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 5:24 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] evergreen panels diode problems Hi All, Ive got two evergreen 170 watt panels with bad bypass diodes in them. In service for under 2 months. Only odd thing is that this is a positive ground system. They are running at 3 in series for a 48v system. Anybody else have problems with them? thanks jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.0/1683 - Release Date: 09/21/2008 10:10 AM 08-03-US Installation Manual Update Release 0108.pdf___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] evergreen panels diode problems
Hi All, I want to thank everyone about all the great info on the Evergreen. The system is in Suriname, South America. Its a telecom site which was contracted out and although there are no problems yet, when we found the melted junction boxes, well the emails started then. Thanks again its been a great help, sincerely, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] evergreen panels diode problems
Hi Marv, What do they do in Europe or japan? How are they grounded, or are they grounded? thanks, jay On Sep 21, 2008, at 11:17 AM, Marv Dargatz wrote: Mark, From an inverter manufacturer's standpoint there is a huge advantage in running positive ground in all installations. Since the ground is provided through the GFDI circuit of the inverter, only one configuration of inverter must be stocked, and there is no need to provide field configurable ground connection. This saves a SKU, a little bit of money, and confusion in the field. See Ya! Marv Enphase Energy 707 763-4784 x7016 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] evergreen panels diode problems
HI Mark, I've seen a paper from Sunpower that shows their modules are OK for lower voltages, but above a certain voltage ( around 200 or so) they start to see the static build up, but interestingly only on the panels at the high end of the voltage. I haven't seen anything to indicate that other panels will see an improvement with doing positive ground, if I understand what you are saying? But I will forward on the information to the telecom in question. thanks, jay Peltz power On Sep 20, 2008, at 5:36 PM, Mark Frye wrote: I am sorry to hear that folks are having these kinds of problems. As I understand it, only module types made up of back contact cells such as the SunPower are run with positive ground. These modules actually require positive ground to reduce static charge build up on the front of the cell which can reverse bias and shut down the module. I don't know, but it seems to me that folks have somehow mixed up the high yield of the back contact cell with positive grounding so now positive grounding will increase the yeild other types of cells. Do I have the story about right? Running front contact cells that have plenty of collection wire on the face on a positive ground will not significantly increase yield over a negative ground. Are there other benefits to running positive ground that I am not aware of? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Pratt Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 5:25 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] evergreen panels diode problems Jay, there was a bulletin from Evergreen earlier this year about their modules being used in positive ground systems. I don't remember the exact details (and I'm not at work now), but the gist was avoid positive ground till we make some modifications. Please check w/Evergreen on Monday. -Doug Pratt ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Charge controllers connected to monitors
HI William, You should have no problems with connecting the MX/FM to the mate which you can then use the RS232. jay peltz power On Sep 18, 2008, at 1:55 PM, William Miller wrote: Friends: Coincidentally, I have several clients that need new charge controllers and remote monitors but do not need new inverters. I was wondering if I could buy a modern MPPT charge controller from Xantrex or Outback and connect it directly through a CAT5 cable to an XW SCP or a Mate, respectively and find that they could communicate. I called Xantrex and they informed me the XWMPPT60 does not provide power for the SCP but an outboard power supply of the correct value would make this work. Outback claims the MX60 connected directly to the Mate and does not need a separate power supply. Remember, I am trying to do this without an inverter or a hub. Has anyone tried this? Thanks in advance, William Miller PS: I have an MX60 and a Mate. I'll be trying this myself in the next day or two with these items, if anyone is curious. WM ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Actual losses from dissimilar orientations onsingle inverter
HI Sky, I sure hope the data doesn't take a few more decades! jay peltz power On Sep 12, 2008, at 8:26 PM, Sky Sims wrote: August makes a good point. There really isn't much solid info on the topic of dissimilar orientations. In the experiments I've conducted using different orientations and tilts on the same strings the production almost exactly matches the average projected production across the orientations and tilt. In regard to using mix matched modules in parallel strings I haven't seen any noticeable difference in performance either. Of course this is an advanced technique and requires an awareness of string voltages and amperages in order to avoid excessive power clipping. The biggest problem with using different manufacturers panels with each other appears to be more bureaucratically driven rather than performance based. What I mean to say is that because the manufacturers are unlikely to provide a written endorsement allowing you to use their panels in the same string with someone else's, you may have trouble with a bureaucrat requiring that endorsement. There is a lot of rumor floating around about how important it is to use the same panels and the same orientations and tilts. And I agree it is important, but there may be circumstances that over ride those rules. I've had many systems where for esthetic or available space reasons a panel or 2 in a string of modules was put at an entirely different tilt and orientation. I've played quite a bit with it and haven't noticed any reduction in performance that would warrant the elimination of what might be 10 to 30% of the string or perhaps even the entire string. However with inverters like enphase coming to market it becomes easier to ensure that every panel in a string is at the same orientation and tilt. I always recommend the best tilt and orientation possible but sites and circumstances coupled with other details specific to the site sometimes force us to go with less than optimal string placement practices. A healthy well rounded understanding is important and I don't feel that the industry has done enough to create that understanding yet. Best practices have certainly been promulgated but the context has not been fully explained or explored yet. Inverter reps and installation reps and panel reps have made many many representations based on their best guesses and in some cases what they have seen first hand. We the implementers are the guinea pigs, get used to it. Thankfully the kinks are getting worked out. Perhaps in another couple decades when things settle down we'll have properly documented studies of mix matched panels, orientations and tilts. Of course by then things will be so completely different that it wont matter any way. My 2 cents, Sky Sims Ecological Systems http://www.ecologicalsystems.biz 220 County Road 522 Manalapan, NJ 07726 732-462-3858 toll free)866-759-7652 fax)732-462-3962 - ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] battery question
Hi Jamie and others. Thanks for the conformation and the information. Another system installed badly. Hard to give bad news to people. Thanks, jay peltz power On Sep 4, 2008, at 5:42 AM, James Surrette wrote: Morning Jay, I don't have a lot of good news for you - but maybe others do? Years ago, I visited a commercial fishing client that had a 6 week old 32VDC bank of batteries that were not performing. Once we reviewed, we noticed a tap 6 cells in.for 12V radios. Boat had been out for a 6 week run, which meant 6 weeks of charging at ~2.3VPC and the 10 non tapped cells were toasted (red cases were actually black). Of course, client wanted warranty but that is another story. Your only hope is to separate the low 12V bank and charge to 100% SOC. Then charge the hi 12V bank to 100% (probably already there or beyond). Finally, marry the banks again and balance with a 2.35 - 2.4VPC until cell voltage stabilizes. Current acceptance will be low but voltage will ultimately stabilize across the bank. The problem is, the low bank has been undercharged for 2 years and the hi bank has been severely overcharged. As a result the capacity / corrosion differences between the two sides will be great - leading to charging difficulties going forward, which may result in the bank needing to be replaced. However, I would recommend attempting to bring the bank into line before replacing. I hope this is of assistance, Jamie James Surrette Surrette Battery Co. Ltd 1 Station Rd. Springhill, NS, CAN B0M 1X0 Direct: 902.597.4027 Fax: 902.597.8447 jay peltz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 09/04/08 1:25 AM HI All, A guy has 1/2 loaded his big surrette 24v battery, yep put 12v loads onto only one side of the 24v battery. Now after 2 yrs 12v side is low voltage, 24v side is boiling like crazy. System is charged via SW4024, big genny and good size array. so my question is can/should I 1. remove the 12v by installing a Vanner or similar. 2. put a 12v charger onto the lower 12v side to put an equal charge into the batteries. ( I have never had success trying to charge up a highly unbalanced battery) thanks, jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Power-Save and Power Works
HI Peter, Check out this website. He makes great stuff. http://www.brandelectronics.com/ jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] offgrid system question
Hi Travis, thanks for the great insite, this helps a lot. So the higher the SEER number the more efficient the unit is. thanks, jay On Aug 22, 2008, at 7:40 AM, Travis Creswell wrote: 1 ton = 12,000 BTU's SEER = how many BTU's per kW (Since you asked about rough electrical load for this equation we're going to ignore the complexities for EER vs. SEER, COP at varying outdoor temps and so on. We'll leave that for someone else to discuss if they desire) Plus you'll want to add approximately 150 watts per ton for the air handler Assuming a 13 SEER AC unit the math is; 2.5 tons x 12,000 BTU's = 30,000 BTU's 30,000 BTU's/13 SEER= 2.3 kW 2.5 tons x 150 watts/ton for air handling = 375 watts For a total running kW of ~2.7. That's how I do it. Doesn't mean it's the right or only way. Best, Travis Creswell Ozark Energy Services -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:23 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] offgrid system question Can someone tell me how to convert AC tons to rough electrical load? or is there a way? I've got a customer who is wanting to install a AC unit and they tell me its a 2.5 ton and uses 9000 watts. ( they haven't given me make or model yet) thanks, jay ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1627 - Release Date: 8/22/2008 6:48 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1627 - Release Date: 8/22/2008 6:48 AM ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Imbalanced Legs in 3-Phase systems
Hi Bill, Can you explain why the 6kVA rule on split phase systems? I mean why 6? thanks, jay peltz power On Aug 8, 2008, at 8:48 PM, Bill Brooks wrote: Jeff and Ryan, The 6kVA value comes from the California Rule 21 that I worked on. It only applies to split-phase 240V systems (6kVA on 120V). There is no specific limit for imbalance on a 3-phase service. A basic rule for single phase generation on a 3=phase service is to rotate among the phases in a balanced manner. This means the largest imbalance possible right now is 7kVA because of the SMA SB7000US. There is a single-phase SatCon that is 30kVA, but it would be silly to buy a single-phase Satcon when the major on 3-phase units. The best way to place the imbalanced single-phase generators on the service is to test the current on all three phases and put the inverter(s) on the most heavily loaded phase(s). This reduces the site imbalance by reducing the imbalance on the serving transformer (lowering current on the most heavily loaded phases). It is common for 3-phase services to have imbalances of 10 kVA or more, so single-phase inverters can reduce the problem rather than make it worse. Make any sense? Bill. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Surrette Battery Question
Hi bob, Wow now thats unusual! So have you figured out a better charger or are using a IBE or similar? jay On Aug 3, 2008, at 6:02 PM, robert ellison wrote: The 80 volt battery banks are not on inverters, sorry I didn't mention that. They are 2 - 20 cell packs in series for 80 volts total. These power a Zamboni. I didn't know what one of those was either when they called me to work on the batteries 10 or so years ago. These are the machines that groom the ice on skating rinks, in most cases you can't use an engine inside a building anymore, so they are going electric. I did put out some feelers a few years ago about building a 3 stage charger to charge them. Many are still using the transformer based, taper type charger we got away from years ago. It's another cool toy I get to play with. Later, Bob On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 12:31 PM, jay peltz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HI Bob, What are you using 80v battery banks for or which inverters anyway? Would be great for larger systems. thanks, jay peltz power On Aug 1, 2008, at 10:18 PM, robert ellison wrote: When i went to an SEI class at the Trojan factory one of the points mentioned was that the best way to get the lowest cost per watt from the battery bank (T-105's were at the time the lowest) was to cycle them to 80% discharge then fill them all the way up. Not feasible in an off grid system at all. We get more years life by just taking off the top 20 - 25% and returning it daily. My battery distributor says that an industrial deep cycle battery needs to be cycled occasionaly to prevent them developing a memory so to speak. I recommend to my customers that they occasionally let them run down to 50 -60% DOD and fill them back up with an EQ charge to stir up the electrolyte so you can get an accurate reading with a hydrometer. Stratification will throw off the gravity readings unless they get stirred up occasionally. I have pulled apart batteries that did not get an EQ and found the bottom of the plates wore out and the top still looking reasonably good. That is from the acid being a lot stronger at the bottom than the top and just working on the bottom of the plates in the battery. This is not a fun project and usually results in some trashed clothes, rubber suit or not. I have 80 volt battery packs that get cycled to 70-80% DOD daily for 5 months a year then sit for 7 months with just a couple freshening charges and last 6 - 7 years till wore out, some of these are hi acid batteries that are in the specific gravity range or 1.325 or more when fully charged instead of the usual 1.265 -1.270 that we are used to seeing. I am not a battery expert I just have several big banks that I maintain and have formed some opinions over the last 15 or so years. I have also experienced wearing out a set of L-16's by hitting the end of their cycle life in just over a year. It was way too small a battery bank and got cycled fully almost daily hitting it's cycle life limit far sooner than a larger bank would have if treated well. Good night, Bob On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 12:01 AM, jay peltz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Robert, When you mention cycling batteries, are you saying that batteries in a offgrid system that are being cycled 15-25% a day should be cycled even deeper than that? Thanks, jay peltz power On Aug 1, 2008, at 8:36 PM, robert ellison wrote: A couple things that I haver noticed in the past, sometimes batteries like to be cycled, shut off the controllers and run them down, then charge them up fully and then give them an eq charge till it comes up the peak voltage and hold it there as it (sometimes) slowly rises. Any of these thoughts are superseded by Jamie if he has any thoughts. Also, if you have not given them an eq in a while it might take longer than the available solar time has to get them to the top and hold them there.. Have the controllers settings changed? Bob On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:18 PM, Allan Sindelar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wrenches, In late 2003 we installed a 24V set of Rolls-Surrette 4-KS-21PS 6V 1104 A/hr batteries in the off-grid system of a long-time client. The client's system had a democracy array of around 800 watts of tracked PV. In early 2005 we added 1,280 watts of additional PV, and the client hasn't run the generator since; the system rarely drops below 80% and fills to 100% most days in sunny New Mexico. Batteries are located in a basement, so temperatures stay relatively constant, although it will vary slightly seasonally. MX60 controller is temperature compensated, with 29.6 VDC bulk and 31.4 VDC EQ set points. The problem is that the client reports being unable to achieve previous EQ voltages, and this inability appears to be a new development. The system is otherwise performing well. As the client is sharp and pays close attention to the system's operation, I'm not ready to blame
Re: [RE-wrenches] Surrette Battery Question
HI Allan, so right you are. Thanks about the surrette link. There batteries sure seem to be prone to odd things in the PV world. peace, jay On Aug 3, 2008, at 5:12 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Jay, You're right about leaving off the post at the bottom - whoops. It's at the bottom here. About voltage drop: I meant only that by running the array at a higher voltage than the batteries, there could never be sufficient hot-weather and undersized-wire voltage drop to prevent the array from exceeding the EQ voltage of the batteries. This is most often a potential problem with 12V systems. I mentioned it only to eliminate it as a possible cause of this situation. The Surrette Tech Bulletin 614 is available for download at http:// surrette.com/files/BU-RS-614.pdf. My understanding is that this bulletin is the direct result of the complaints on this list about two years ago about Surrette battery performance and life. Allan -Original Message- From: jay peltz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 1:41 PM To: Allan Sindelar Subject: Fwd: [RE-wrenches] Surrette Battery Question HI Allan, You mention about a Surrette tech bulletin, I can't seem to find it? Can you tell me where it might be on their site? Also Im curious about you saying that hot modules isn't going to affect voltage drop. Sure it will. If the wire is upsized for the lower voltages from hot weather, then you've compensated for it, but there is still added voltage drop. And about the adding new panels to old? I didn't see the link/post at the bottom? Thanks, jay OK, the story, This client had started off-grid in the early nineties with a tight budget. He and his wife would add modules as they could afford them, usually used. The built a homemade tracker with a Wattsun SA controller and two linear actuators, using a DPDT momentary switch to adjust elevation seasonally. Over time the tracker filled out with eight Arco 16-2000s, nine Carrizo (Arco) M52L 5V Quad-Lams, two BP 275s, and two old square whatsises with 2 cells from the seventies. Eventually their income increased and their house and house loads got bigger. They asked us to upgrade their array, which eventually led to the 8 160W modules I added on a pole-top array. There were several catches, though: 1. They wanted to keep as much as possible of the original democracy tracker in operation; 2. The house had grown over the years, and the existing tracker had to be moved 50' farther away; 3. The balance-of-system was still in the original basement, now inaccessible from the outside, as the house had been expanded bit by bit in all directions. 4. The #2 (or 2/0, I can't recall) USE copper array input wires had been built over and couldn't be replaced; we had to use them. We dismantled the tracker and moved the pole (yep, lifted pole, concrete and all and set it in a new, larger hole with more concrete). We put a 3R j-box where the old pole had been and trenched to the new locations. After playing with different calculations, we changed the old tracked array as follows: 1. We added two BP 380s (the closest we could get then to the older 275s) and wired them as one 48V string; 2. We dumped the whatsises, which had low output; 3. Now I'm trying to remember: I think I wired the four 16-2000s (originally 2.2A at 12V) in parallel, then wired this set of four in series with the nine Quad-Lams (think of M52Ls, originally used in the Carrisa Plains utility central power plant in California from 1984-1989 or so, as similar to 16-2000s but with the 3 rows of cells wired in parallel, to make about 7A at 4 1/2V nominal. That's why they're called Quad-Lams: it took four in series to charge a 12V battery). So we ended up with a 17-module array wired at 48V nominal, tied in with the new 48V array. What made it so special, other than that it's the only 17-module array I ever built? When we were all done and it was charging the 24V battery through the MX60, I alternately turned each array off and let the MX60 find its MPPT voltage: the two arrays were within one volt of each other. We got it right, and I have always been especially pleased with that job. That's all. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Surrette Battery Question
Hi Robert, When you mention cycling batteries, are you saying that batteries in a offgrid system that are being cycled 15-25% a day should be cycled even deeper than that? Thanks, jay peltz power On Aug 1, 2008, at 8:36 PM, robert ellison wrote: A couple things that I haver noticed in the past, sometimes batteries like to be cycled, shut off the controllers and run them down, then charge them up fully and then give them an eq charge till it comes up the peak voltage and hold it there as it (sometimes) slowly rises. Any of these thoughts are superseded by Jamie if he has any thoughts. Also, if you have not given them an eq in a while it might take longer than the available solar time has to get them to the top and hold them there.. Have the controllers settings changed? Bob On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 10:18 PM, Allan Sindelar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wrenches, In late 2003 we installed a 24V set of Rolls-Surrette 4-KS-21PS 6V 1104 A/hr batteries in the off-grid system of a long-time client. The client's system had a democracy array of around 800 watts of tracked PV. In early 2005 we added 1,280 watts of additional PV, and the client hasn't run the generator since; the system rarely drops below 80% and fills to 100% most days in sunny New Mexico. Batteries are located in a basement, so temperatures stay relatively constant, although it will vary slightly seasonally. MX60 controller is temperature compensated, with 29.6 VDC bulk and 31.4 VDC EQ set points. The problem is that the client reports being unable to achieve previous EQ voltages, and this inability appears to be a new development. The system is otherwise performing well. As the client is sharp and pays close attention to the system's operation, I'm not ready to blame user ignorance (with one possible exception; read on). This may be an issue of seasonally warm temperatures, but I'm not sure this would explain the full 0.4 VDC reduction in voltage. I told him that I would post his problem to this list, and also request advice from Surrette Battery. Here is the client's description of the symptoms: I'm concerned that I am unable to equalize batteries at this time. Up until June of this year the Tri-Metric readings during equalizing indicated holding voltage at 31.1, with maximum amps gain of around 52. Three weeks ago, when set on equalize, the maximum voltage reading was 30.7, with maximum amps of 46; this was reached around noon, and by around 1:30 pm voltage/amps began its typical afternoon drop-off. I attempted equalizing on two other occasions since then--the last time this past Saturday, with clear skies up until mid-afternoon--but having the same results. So, the question is: are my batteries beginning their decline? We've had this set for 4 1/2 years, so it would seem a bit too early for this, given that these batteries are expected to last 7-10 years. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Gray code area
Hi Drake, do you know how this is all done in say Germany? I realize they have different codes ( hopefully) but how do they address the main issue of potential bussbar overloading? thanks, jay peltz power On Jul 30, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Drake Chamberlin wrote: Thanks to All who have replied, First, to answer William's question What is a feed-through breaker box and what are feed-through lugs? A feed through panel is the type of service equipment often installed on pre-manufactured homes, where a main switch is needed outside the building, and a limited number of loads, fed from the outside, are also supplied. On the bottom of the busbar, there are lugs equivalent to the lugs for the service entrance cables. This is useful when feeder is to be installed to supply the breaker panel in the premise that is equal to the total service amperage. No breaker is needed for the run to the subpanel inside, since the wiring will be equivalent to the service cable. It is similar in function to a disconnect switch, but will typically have 4 to 8 breaker spaces. The situation in this project is that a feed through panel is in a separate building from the building to be supplied from that panel. The building this panel is in has a separate electrical service, which is commercial. The service for the residence comes in through a separate meter, located on this same commercial building, then goes to the feed through panel. This panel was installed for us, for the sole purpose of allowing a feed from the solar array. The issue here is that the busbar will have 200 amps from the main, and over 40 amps from the solar. No power is to be taken from the residential service to feed the commercial building. There is no possibility of an overload on the busbar because the house has a main 200 A breaker that will limit the load from the panel. It could be argued that since the line to the house will have up to 240 amps available on a 200 amp service, that is too much. I would argue that a standard service drop can supply 10,000 amps instantaneously. The box is strictly to be used as an AC combiner and feed for two inverters. By the letter of the NEC, it does not seem to be code. I'm going to use Kent's suggestion and use a label, after running it by the AHJ beforehand. -Drake ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/
