Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
The fill window can also show full, when it is actually dry. You've got to pop those caps, and visually check the old fashioned way. That's why we're now advocating a semi, semi auto system using only one BFS cap with a pressure sprayer to fill each cell. Auto shut off, but then you visually double check the level, before replacing the cap. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer BFS caps have a little fill indicator window. If it's white, the cell is full, if it's black, the cell is low. A quick visual inspection will show if you've got any non-fillers. (Floats stuck in the closed position, and yes, they do occasionally stick, both open or closed.) Cheers, Doug Pratt DC Power Systems ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
I'm with Kelly and Dick on this one. Automatic battery watering systems are simply a disaster waiting to happen. Never leave one of these systems pressurized and un-attended. However we've supplied many, many BFS Semi-automatic systems over the years with quick-disconnects and the little spinner flow balls. You connect the reservoir to the filler system, and then stand there and watch it until the spinner stops. Then disconnect. Never, never leave the filler system pressurized. Follow this one simple rule and battery watering systems are great time and mess savers. The BFS caps have a little fill indicator window. If it's white, the cell is full, if it's black, the cell is low. A quick visual inspection will show if you've got any non-fillers. (Floats stuck in the closed position, and yes, they do occasionally stick, both open or closed.) Cheers, Doug Pratt DC Power Systems -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Richard L Ratico Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 7:27 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Amen. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- You wrote: All, I'm a little late on this thread, but wanted to give some contrary experience. We have, maybe, 15 BFS watering systems out there, dating back 5 to 6 years. Although I've experienced some issues in getting watering systems set up properly, once they are set I haven't seen a problem develop. Important issues include: - Proper size float must be specified for the battery reservoir size. For larger batteries, especially. If the float is too short it will not shut off soon enough, or allow enough headroom for expansion. - The caps must be carefully tightened, but not too much, as it can be turned past the simple threads (and then be looser). - Make sure when installing the tubing that the cap does not loosen. The base of the cap swivels from the top, but not easily. - We use the garden sprayer method, connected to the system. However, for obvious reasons, we don't recommend leaving it connected. We use an in-line flow wheel to gauge when the batteries are reaching capacity, stop pumping, then disconnect. We use a quick coupling disconnect. - It's important to balance the flow layout, especially with large battery banks. Otherwise, the first cells in line can see higher flow/pressures than the last cells in line, and it can be difficult to fill evenly. Overall, I believe that the benefits of having a battery filling system outweigh the potential problems. As few of our battery systems customers can be said to be enthusiastically, and regularly, engaged with their batteries, I think that a properly working watering system is good insurance toward a healthy bank, and happy customers. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind, LLC Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer 987 Wanamaker Rd, Coupeville, WA 98239 PH FAX 360-678-7131 sunw...@whidbeysunwind.com On 12/9/09 7:06 PM, R Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: I have to highly recommend against Battery FIlling Systems. After 3 years trying to make their products work, we are pulling all watering systems out, and offering full refunds. Some of the caps leaked at only 1 psi of pressure, some overfilled the batteries causing acid spills, and the worst: some caps never filled at all, leaving some cells under filled. Repeated calls to their main contact Rob Source at Battery Filling Systems have gone unanswered. We're back to manual filling as we just haven't found anything reliable enough to deal with this extremely important task. Of 10 service call backs, 8 were problems with BFS products. (and we only made a couple of bucks per cell in the first place) Please avoid this product like the plague! R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Dec 9, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Joel Davidson wrote: Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org --- end of quote --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Has anyone tried a modified drip irrigtation system for battery watering? The calibrated emitters can assure the accurate regulation of water flow. Turn off the pressure and the feed stops. Sounds like a good winter project for the slow season. And we can share the patent rights! Have a long and happy holiday weekend Jim Duncan North Texas Renewable Energy Inc 817.917.0527 nt...@earthlink.net www.ntrei.com All, I'm a little late on this thread, but wanted to give some contrary experience. We have, maybe, 15 BFS watering systems out there, dating back 5 to 6 years. Although I've experienced some issues in getting watering systems set up properly, once they are set I haven't seen a problem develop. Important issues include: - Proper size float must be specified for the battery reservoir size. For larger batteries, especially. If the float is too short it will not shut off soon enough, or allow enough headroom for expansion. - The caps must be carefully tightened, but not too much, as it can be turned past the simple threads (and then be looser). - Make sure when installing the tubing that the cap does not loosen. The base of the cap swivels from the top, but not easily. - We use the garden sprayer method, connected to the system. However, for obvious reasons, we don't recommend leaving it connected. We use an in-line flow wheel to gauge when the batteries are reaching capacity, stop pumping, then disconnect. We use a quick coupling disconnect. - It's important to balance the flow layout, especially with large battery banks. Otherwise, the first cells in line can see higher flow/pressures than the last cells in line, and it can be difficult to fill evenly. Overall, I believe that the benefits of having a battery filling system outweigh the potential problems. As few of our battery systems customers can be said to be enthusiastically, and regularly, engaged with their batteries, I think that a properly working watering system is good insurance toward a healthy bank, and happy customers. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind, LLC Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer 987 Wanamaker Rd, Coupeville, WA 98239 PH FAX 360-678-7131 sunw...@whidbeysunwind.com On 12/9/09 7:06 PM, R Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: I have to highly recommend against Battery FIlling Systems. After 3 years trying to make their products work, we are pulling all watering systems out, and offering full refunds. Some of the caps leaked at only 1 psi of pressure, some overfilled the batteries causing acid spills, and the worst: some caps never filled at all, leaving some cells under filled. Repeated calls to their main contact Rob Source at Battery Filling Systems have gone unanswered. We're back to manual filling as we just haven't found anything reliable enough to deal with this extremely important task. Of 10 service call backs, 8 were problems with BFS products. (and we only made a couple of bucks per cell in the first place) Please avoid this product like the plague! R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Dec 9, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Joel Davidson wrote: Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org --- end of quote --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
All, I'm a little late on this thread, but wanted to give some contrary experience. We have, maybe, 15 BFS watering systems out there, dating back 5 to 6 years. Although I've experienced some issues in getting watering systems set up properly, once they are set I haven't seen a problem develop. Important issues include: - Proper size float must be specified for the battery reservoir size. For larger batteries, especially. If the float is too short it will not shut off soon enough, or allow enough headroom for expansion. - The caps must be carefully tightened, but not too much, as it can be turned past the simple threads (and then be looser). - Make sure when installing the tubing that the cap does not loosen. The base of the cap swivels from the top, but not easily. - We use the garden sprayer method, connected to the system. However, for obvious reasons, we don't recommend leaving it connected. We use an in-line flow wheel to gauge when the batteries are reaching capacity, stop pumping, then disconnect. We use a quick coupling disconnect. - It's important to balance the flow layout, especially with large battery banks. Otherwise, the first cells in line can see higher flow/pressures than the last cells in line, and it can be difficult to fill evenly. Overall, I believe that the benefits of having a battery filling system outweigh the potential problems. As few of our battery systems customers can be said to be enthusiastically, and regularly, engaged with their batteries, I think that a properly working watering system is good insurance toward a healthy bank, and happy customers. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Whidbey Sun Wind, LLC Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer 987 Wanamaker Rd, Coupeville, WA 98239 PH FAX 360-678-7131 sunw...@whidbeysunwind.com On 12/9/09 7:06 PM, R Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: I have to highly recommend against Battery FIlling Systems. After 3 years trying to make their products work, we are pulling all watering systems out, and offering full refunds. Some of the caps leaked at only 1 psi of pressure, some overfilled the batteries causing acid spills, and the worst: some caps never filled at all, leaving some cells under filled. Repeated calls to their main contact Rob Source at Battery Filling Systems have gone unanswered. We're back to manual filling as we just haven't found anything reliable enough to deal with this extremely important task. Of 10 service call backs, 8 were problems with BFS products. (and we only made a couple of bucks per cell in the first place) Please avoid this product like the plague! R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Dec 9, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Joel Davidson wrote: Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Another person's opinion... With all due respect, Allan, if you understand how the Hydrocap works (properly sized, removal when equalizing, as detailed in the instructions) and use distilled (or equivalent) water to top off the electrolyte much more infrequently than regularly, Hydrocaps provide a close second to a recombinant battery at a fraction of the cost of the real thing. Moreover, they are reusable (unless you blow them up). I know of nothing, nothing that competes with the Hydrocap. The yellow flip caps provide a marginal convenience in terms of filling, however there is no comparison in performance. Have any Homepower articles ever reviewed either of these things back in the Dark Ages? The use of a suitable battery enclosure to contain the potential results of _any_ battery mishap should be defacto procedure. I will send George a copy of this thread and will post his reply, if he chooses to comment. I believe it was Windy who commented the biggest hassle of the Hydrocaps was dealing with George and evidently Joel can echo that experience. Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 MO Licensed Professional Engineer Saint Louis County (MO) Licensed Water Heater Specialist - Original Message - From: Allan Sindelar To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering One person's opinion, here... Avoid Hydrocaps. You need to remove them to equalize. They can clog up and plug the battery up, leading to an explosion from pressure. I have seen it. ![endif]-- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com wind...@wind-sun.com wrote: Hydrocaps - they run around $30 each last I checked. We used to sell them but gave up when lead times went from weeks to months. .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979 Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ .. - Original Message - From: Andrew Truitt To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Has anyone ever used the recombination caps that combine the released hydrogen with oxygen and return the pure water to the cells? I am considering them for a large ([98] 2200Ah Surrettes) battery system that we installed a while ago, but I think they run about $200 a piece. Andrew Truitt Standard Solar Inc. On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Than you Roy, Jay, Jeff, and ... I'm glad I checked my email before going to Pep Boys to buy an automotive battery filler. Great idea! I've been buying and selling batteries for over 35 years and this is the first time I've heard about using a garden sprayer to fill batteries. The RE-Wrenches knowledge base scores again! Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Roy Butler r...@four-winds-energy.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Joel, I was waiting to see if others use my method but I didn't see anyone post it. I've been off grid and having to maintain my batteries since 1997. I grew to hate the battery watering jugs for several reasons and finally came up with something that works for me.your results may vary! I now use a pump up type garden sprayer. I use a 1.5 gallon version with a plastic wand, spray tip removed. I pump it up 6-8 times and that pressure allows me to fill 3 to 4 cells, depending on the volume of water needed. What I like about this is that the wand reaches anywhere in the bank and most important, I can watch the cells fill. I put a piece of electrical tape around the wand and insert the wand into the cell to the tape level. This is my water level and it's really easy to tell when the electrolyte reaches the end of the wand. About 1/2 of my customers are off grid and most use the sprayer method with good results. BTW, this was a brand new sprayer, dedicated to distilled water and hidden away from my wife, who loves to grab what ever is available in my shop. And at least here in snow country, the sprayers are all on sale! Roy Butler NABCEP Certified
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Maybe one way to express it would be hydrocaps are great if you use the the same charging parameters no matter what the age, condition of the battery is. This seems to be critical to sizing the HCs properly. And you (or the always attentive and willing customer) don't (doesn't) mind removing (and replacing) the hydrocaps for every equalization for the rest of eternity. I wonder if part of this debate doesn't center on the frequency of equalizations. Many battery brands, systems require more frequent eqs than others. Maybe you can tell I've gone back to regular caps after using HCs Bill Feather River Solar Electric - Original Message - From: Bill Loesch To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com ; RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 4:17 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Another person's opinion... With all due respect, Allan, if you understand how the Hydrocap works (properly sized, removal when equalizing, as detailed in the instructions) and use distilled (or equivalent) water to top off the electrolyte much more infrequently than regularly, Hydrocaps provide a close second to a recombinant battery at a fraction of the cost of the real thing. Moreover, they are reusable (unless you blow them up). I know of nothing, nothing that competes with the Hydrocap. The yellow flip caps provide a marginal convenience in terms of filling, however there is no comparison in performance. Have any Homepower articles ever reviewed either of these things back in the Dark Ages? The use of a suitable battery enclosure to contain the potential results of _any_ battery mishap should be defacto procedure. I will send George a copy of this thread and will post his reply, if he chooses to comment. I believe it was Windy who commented the biggest hassle of the Hydrocaps was dealing with George and evidently Joel can echo that experience. Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 MO Licensed Professional Engineer Saint Louis County (MO) Licensed Water Heater Specialist - Original Message - From: Allan Sindelar To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering One person's opinion, here... Avoid Hydrocaps. You need to remove them to equalize. They can clog up and plug the battery up, leading to an explosion from pressure. I have seen it. ![endif]-- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com wind...@wind-sun.com wrote: Hydrocaps - they run around $30 each last I checked. We used to sell them but gave up when lead times went from weeks to months. .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979 Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ .. - Original Message - From: Andrew Truitt To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Has anyone ever used the recombination caps that combine the released hydrogen with oxygen and return the pure water to the cells? I am considering them for a large ([98] 2200Ah Surrettes) battery system that we installed a while ago, but I think they run about $200 a piece. Andrew Truitt Standard Solar Inc. On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Than you Roy, Jay, Jeff, and ... I'm glad I checked my email before going to Pep Boys to buy an automotive battery filler. Great idea! I've been buying and selling batteries for over 35 years and this is the first time I've heard about using a garden sprayer to fill batteries. The RE-Wrenches knowledge base scores again! Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Watermiser caps work the same way as the Hydrocaps and the caps do not need to be removed for equalization, per the manufacturer's directions. Carl HansenSun Elect. - Original Message - From: frenergy To: RE-wrenches ; al...@positiveenergysolar.com Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 9:05 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Maybe one way to express it would be hydrocaps are great if you use the the same charging parameters no matter what the age, condition of the battery is. This seems to be critical to sizing the HCs properly. And you (or the always attentive and willing customer) don't (doesn't) mind removing (and replacing) the hydrocaps for every equalization for the rest of eternity. I wonder if part of this debate doesn't center on the frequency of equalizations. Many battery brands, systems require more frequent eqs than others. Maybe you can tell I've gone back to regular caps after using HCs Bill Feather River Solar Electric - Original Message - From: Bill Loesch To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com ; RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 4:17 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Another person's opinion... With all due respect, Allan, if you understand how the Hydrocap works (properly sized, removal when equalizing, as detailed in the instructions) and use distilled (or equivalent) water to top off the electrolyte much more infrequently than regularly, Hydrocaps provide a close second to a recombinant battery at a fraction of the cost of the real thing. Moreover, they are reusable (unless you blow them up). I know of nothing, nothing that competes with the Hydrocap. The yellow flip caps provide a marginal convenience in terms of filling, however there is no comparison in performance. Have any Homepower articles ever reviewed either of these things back in the Dark Ages? The use of a suitable battery enclosure to contain the potential results of _any_ battery mishap should be defacto procedure. I will send George a copy of this thread and will post his reply, if he chooses to comment. I believe it was Windy who commented the biggest hassle of the Hydrocaps was dealing with George and evidently Joel can echo that experience. Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 MO Licensed Professional Engineer Saint Louis County (MO) Licensed Water Heater Specialist - Original Message - From: Allan Sindelar To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering One person's opinion, here... Avoid Hydrocaps. You need to remove them to equalize. They can clog up and plug the battery up, leading to an explosion from pressure. I have seen it. ![endif]-- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com wind...@wind-sun.com wrote: Hydrocaps - they run around $30 each last I checked. We used to sell them but gave up when lead times went from weeks to months. .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979 Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ .. - Original Message - From: Andrew Truitt To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Has anyone ever used the recombination caps that combine the released hydrogen with oxygen and return the pure water to the cells? I am considering them for a large ([98] 2200Ah Surrettes) battery system that we installed a while ago, but I think they run about $200 a piece. Andrew Truitt Standard Solar Inc. On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Than you Roy, Jay, Jeff, and ... I'm glad I checked my email before going to Pep Boys to buy an automotive battery filler. Great idea! I've been buying and selling batteries for over 35 years and this is the first time I've heard about using a garden sprayer to fill batteries. The RE-Wrenches knowledge base scores again! Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
I stopped using Hydro-caps after replacing the umpteenth set that had melted down. During a conversation with Hydro-cap I was told that [ this was many years ago] the bulk voltage was too high @ 28.8 VDC and I charge 24 volt banks to 29.2 VDC and I should be using a lower setting and if I was to and that I was going to EQ that I needed to remove the caps. I feel that this is out of line and it did not agree with my battery suppliers requirement to completely charge and maintain a properly maintained bank. I have thrown out literally 100's of caps that have melted down over the years. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc www.solarwork.com E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 I will be the shift in how the world uses power! - Dana Orzel From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Joel Davidson Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 7:18 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering You can get Hydrocaps direct from Hydrocap Corp., 975 N.W. 95 Street, Miami, FL 33150, Tel 305-696-2504. I gave up trying to buy them after they returned my check twice. They wanted more info about charge rates and battery dimensions even though I filled out their order form and talked to them twice. I think they were concerned because the Hydrocaps from the old set of the same IBE cells did not fit on the new cells even though they were the same model IBE cells. Instead, I'm getting a garden sprayer and will check and fill the cells as needed. I'll check the cells every 2 months in the first year and then determine the inspection frequency. The batteries are on a Sunny Boy/Island grid-tie PV system so inspection will probably be 2 to 4 times per year after the first year. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Allan Sindelar mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com To: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering One person's opinion, here... Avoid Hydrocaps. You need to remove them to equalize. They can clog up and plug the battery up, leading to an explosion from pressure. I have seen it. ![endif]-- Allan Sindelar mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/ www.positiveenergysolar.com mailto:wind...@wind-sun.com wind...@wind-sun.com wrote: Hydrocaps - they run around $30 each last I checked. We used to sell them but gave up when lead times went from weeks to months. .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979 Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ .. - Original Message - From: mailto:atru...@gmail.com Andrew Truitt To: mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Has anyone ever used the recombination caps that combine the released hydrogen with oxygen and return the pure water to the cells? I am considering them for a large ([98] 2200Ah Surrettes) battery system that we installed a while ago, but I think they run about $200 a piece. Andrew Truitt Standard Solar Inc. On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Joel Davidson mailto:joel.david...@sbcglobal.net joel.david...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Than you Roy, Jay, Jeff, and ... I'm glad I checked my email before going to Pep Boys to buy an automotive battery filler. Great idea! I've been buying and selling batteries for over 35 years and this is the first time I've heard about using a garden sprayer to fill batteries. The RE-Wrenches knowledge base scores again! Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Roy Butler mailto:r...@four-winds-energy.com r...@four-winds-energy.com To: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Joel, I was waiting to see if others use my method but I didn't see anyone post it. I've been off grid and having to maintain my batteries since 1997. I grew to hate the battery watering jugs for several reasons and finally came up with something that works for me.your results may vary! I now use a pump up type garden sprayer. I use a 1.5 gallon version with a plastic wand, spray tip removed. I pump it up 6-8 times and that pressure allows me to fill 3 to 4 cells, depending on the volume of water needed
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Water miser caps and hydro caps are not the same thing except that they both fit into the hole in the top of the battery. I have not used hydro caps in years, too hard to deal with! Take them off to equalise the battery bank? Thats when you need them most Bob On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Carl Hansen solar...@cybermesa.comwrote: Watermiser caps work the same way as the Hydrocaps and the caps do not need to be removed for equalization, per the manufacturer's directions. Carl HansenSun Elect. - Original Message - *From:* frenergy frene...@psln.com *To:* RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org ; al...@positiveenergysolar.com *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2009 9:05 AM *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Maybe one way to express it would be hydrocaps are great if you use the the same charging parameters no matter what the age, condition of the battery is. This seems to be critical to sizing the HCs properly. And you (or the always attentive and willing customer) don't (doesn't) mind removing (and replacing) the hydrocaps for every equalization for the rest of eternity. I wonder if part of this debate doesn't center on the frequency of equalizations. Many battery brands, systems require more frequent eqs than others. Maybe you can tell I've gone back to regular caps after using HCs Bill Feather River Solar Electric - Original Message - *From:* Bill Loesch solar1onl...@charter.net *To:* al...@positiveenergysolar.com ; RE-wrenchesre-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2009 4:17 AM *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Another person's opinion... With all due respect, Allan, if you understand how the Hydrocap works (properly sized, removal when equalizing, as detailed in the instructions) and use distilled (or equivalent) water to top off the electrolyte much more infrequently than regularly, Hydrocaps provide a close second to a recombinant battery at a fraction of the cost of the real thing. Moreover, they are reusable (unless you blow them up). I know of nothing, nothing that competes with the Hydrocap. The yellow flip caps provide a marginal convenience in terms of filling, however there is no comparison in performance. Have any Homepower articles ever reviewed either of these things back in the Dark Ages? The use of a suitable battery enclosure to contain the potential results of _any_ battery mishap should be defacto procedure. I will send George a copy of this thread and will post his reply, if he chooses to comment. I believe it was Windy who commented the biggest hassle of the Hydrocaps was dealing with George and evidently Joel can echo that experience. Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 MO Licensed Professional Engineer Saint Louis County (MO) Licensed Water Heater Specialist - Original Message - *From:* Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com *To:* RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org *Sent:* Sunday, December 13, 2009 4:01 PM *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering One person's opinion, here... Avoid Hydrocaps. You need to remove them to equalize. They can clog up and plug the battery up, leading to an explosion from pressure. I have seen it. ![endif]-- *Allan** Sindelar* al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician *Positive Energy, Inc.* 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 *505 424-1112* www.positiveenergysolar.com wind...@wind-sun.com wrote: Hydrocaps - they run around $30 each last I checked. We used to sell them but gave up when lead times went from weeks to months. .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979 Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ .. - Original Message - *From:* Andrew Truitt atru...@gmail.com *To:* RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org *Sent:* Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:07 PM *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Has anyone ever used the recombination caps that combine the released hydrogen with oxygen and return the pure water to the cells? I am considering them for a large ([98] 2200Ah Surrettes) battery system that we installed a while ago, but I think they run about $200 a piece. Andrew Truitt Standard Solar Inc. On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Than you Roy, Jay, Jeff, and ... I'm glad I checked my email before going to Pep Boys to buy an automotive battery filler. Great idea! I've been buying and selling batteries for over 35 years and this is the first time I've heard about using a garden sprayer to fill batteries
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Hydrocaps - they run around $30 each last I checked. We used to sell them but gave up when lead times went from weeks to months. .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979 Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ .. - Original Message - From: Andrew Truitt To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Has anyone ever used the recombination caps that combine the released hydrogen with oxygen and return the pure water to the cells? I am considering them for a large ([98] 2200Ah Surrettes) battery system that we installed a while ago, but I think they run about $200 a piece. Andrew Truitt Standard Solar Inc. On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Than you Roy, Jay, Jeff, and ... I'm glad I checked my email before going to Pep Boys to buy an automotive battery filler. Great idea! I've been buying and selling batteries for over 35 years and this is the first time I've heard about using a garden sprayer to fill batteries. The RE-Wrenches knowledge base scores again! Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Roy Butler r...@four-winds-energy.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Joel, I was waiting to see if others use my method but I didn't see anyone post it. I've been off grid and having to maintain my batteries since 1997. I grew to hate the battery watering jugs for several reasons and finally came up with something that works for me.your results may vary! I now use a pump up type garden sprayer. I use a 1.5 gallon version with a plastic wand, spray tip removed. I pump it up 6-8 times and that pressure allows me to fill 3 to 4 cells, depending on the volume of water needed. What I like about this is that the wand reaches anywhere in the bank and most important, I can watch the cells fill. I put a piece of electrical tape around the wand and insert the wand into the cell to the tape level. This is my water level and it's really easy to tell when the electrolyte reaches the end of the wand. About 1/2 of my customers are off grid and most use the sprayer method with good results. BTW, this was a brand new sprayer, dedicated to distilled water and hidden away from my wife, who loves to grab what ever is available in my shop. And at least here in snow country, the sprayers are all on sale! Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. Joel Davidson wrote: Wrenches, Thank you for your feedback that automatic watering is not automatic or reliable. Valves can stick open (a flood) or shut (a dry cell) or not seat properly (dripping that becomes a slow flood). I'll get a 2.5 quart watering can sold at auto parts stores - unless you all have a better idea. Thanks again, Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 6:14 PM Subject: Battery Automatic Watering Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
You can get Hydrocaps direct from Hydrocap Corp., 975 N.W. 95 Street, Miami, FL 33150, Tel 305-696-2504. I gave up trying to buy them after they returned my check twice. They wanted more info about charge rates and battery dimensions even though I filled out their order form and talked to them twice. I think they were concerned because the Hydrocaps from the old set of the same IBE cells did not fit on the new cells even though they were the same model IBE cells. Instead, I'm getting a garden sprayer and will check and fill the cells as needed. I'll check the cells every 2 months in the first year and then determine the inspection frequency. The batteries are on a Sunny Boy/Island grid-tie PV system so inspection will probably be 2 to 4 times per year after the first year. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Allan Sindelar To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering One person's opinion, here... Avoid Hydrocaps. You need to remove them to equalize. They can clog up and plug the battery up, leading to an explosion from pressure. I have seen it. ![endif]-- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com wind...@wind-sun.com wrote: Hydrocaps - they run around $30 each last I checked. We used to sell them but gave up when lead times went from weeks to months. .. Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979 Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/ .. - Original Message - From: Andrew Truitt To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Has anyone ever used the recombination caps that combine the released hydrogen with oxygen and return the pure water to the cells? I am considering them for a large ([98] 2200Ah Surrettes) battery system that we installed a while ago, but I think they run about $200 a piece. Andrew Truitt Standard Solar Inc. On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Than you Roy, Jay, Jeff, and ... I'm glad I checked my email before going to Pep Boys to buy an automotive battery filler. Great idea! I've been buying and selling batteries for over 35 years and this is the first time I've heard about using a garden sprayer to fill batteries. The RE-Wrenches knowledge base scores again! Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Roy Butler r...@four-winds-energy.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Joel, I was waiting to see if others use my method but I didn't see anyone post it. I've been off grid and having to maintain my batteries since 1997. I grew to hate the battery watering jugs for several reasons and finally came up with something that works for me.your results may vary! I now use a pump up type garden sprayer. I use a 1.5 gallon version with a plastic wand, spray tip removed. I pump it up 6-8 times and that pressure allows me to fill 3 to 4 cells, depending on the volume of water needed. What I like about this is that the wand reaches anywhere in the bank and most important, I can watch the cells fill. I put a piece of electrical tape around the wand and insert the wand into the cell to the tape level. This is my water level and it's really easy to tell when the electrolyte reaches the end of the wand. About 1/2 of my customers are off grid and most use the sprayer method with good results. BTW, this was a brand new sprayer, dedicated to distilled water and hidden away from my wife, who loves to grab what ever is available in my shop. And at least here in snow country, the sprayers are all on sale! Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. Joel
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Joel, I was waiting to see if others use my method but I didn't see anyone post it. I've been off grid and having to maintain my batteries since 1997. I grew to hate the battery watering jugs for several reasons and finally came up with something that works for me.your results may vary! I now use a pump up type garden sprayer. I use a 1.5 gallon version with a plastic wand, spray tip removed. I pump it up 6-8 times and that pressure allows me to fill 3 to 4 cells, depending on the volume of water needed. What I like about this is that the wand reaches anywhere in the bank and most important, I can watch the cells fill. I put a piece of electrical tape around the wand and insert the wand into the cell to the tape level. This is my water level and it's really easy to tell when the electrolyte reaches the end of the wand. About 1/2 of my customers are off grid and most use the sprayer method with good results. BTW, this was a brand new sprayer, dedicated to distilled water and hidden away from my wife, who loves to grab what ever is available in my shop. And at least here in snow country, the sprayers are all on sale! Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. Joel Davidson wrote: Wrenches, Thank you for your feedback that automatic watering is not automatic or reliable. Valves can stick open (a flood) or shut (a dry cell) or not seat properly (dripping that becomes a slow flood). I'll get a 2.5 quart watering can sold at auto parts stores - unless you all have a better idea. Thanks again, Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 6:14 PM Subject: Battery Automatic Watering Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Roy, Good idea, but you'd almost want to keep in in a locked box. The potential for someone using it for say... a dormant oil spraying of the fruit trees, is way scary. But I cleaned it out really well afterwards and the spray is organic!. Perhaps if you encase it in red warning tape with toxic waste symbols or the like... Best, Bob-O On Dec 12, 2009, at 5:50 AM, Roy Butler wrote: Joel, I was waiting to see if others use my method but I didn't see anyone post it. I've been off grid and having to maintain my batteries since 1997. I grew to hate the battery watering jugs for several reasons and finally came up with something that works for me.your results may vary! I now use a pump up type garden sprayer. I use a 1.5 gallon version with a plastic wand, spray tip removed. I pump it up 6-8 times and that pressure allows me to fill 3 to 4 cells, depending on the volume of water needed. What I like about this is that the wand reaches anywhere in the bank and most important, I can watch the cells fill. I put a piece of electrical tape around the wand and insert the wand into the cell to the tape level. This is my water level and it's really easy to tell when the electrolyte reaches the end of the wand. About 1/2 of my customers are off grid and most use the sprayer method with good results. BTW, this was a brand new sprayer, dedicated to distilled water and hidden away from my wife, who loves to grab what ever is available in my shop. And at least here in snow country, the sprayers are all on sale! Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Bob and Jay, That's where I keep mine, in the battery box. Also, I bought 2 others for general use so mine would be left alone. And I labeled mine with nasty warnings! I'm the only one that ventures into the scary battery zone, so no worries there! Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. jay peltz wrote: Hi Bob-O, Its what I've been using for years and get for my clients, new sprayers that is. I recommend building the battery box large enough to store it inside that way nobody messes with it and you have a harder time losing it.. keep the peace, jay peltz power On Dec 12, 2009, at 9:27 AM, Bob-O Schultze wrote: Roy, Good idea, but you'd almost want to keep in in a locked box. The potential for someone using it for say... a dormant oil spraying of the fruit trees, is way scary. "But I cleaned it out really well afterwards and the spray is organic!". Perhaps if you encase it in red warning tape with toxic waste symbols or the like... Best, Bob-O ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Than you Roy, Jay, Jeff, and ... I'm glad I checked my email before going to Pep Boys to buy an automotive battery filler. Great idea! I've been buying and selling batteries for over 35 years and this is the first time I've heard about using a garden sprayer to fill batteries. The RE-Wrenches knowledge base scores again! Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Roy Butler r...@four-winds-energy.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Joel, I was waiting to see if others use my method but I didn't see anyone post it. I've been off grid and having to maintain my batteries since 1997. I grew to hate the battery watering jugs for several reasons and finally came up with something that works for me.your results may vary! I now use a pump up type garden sprayer. I use a 1.5 gallon version with a plastic wand, spray tip removed. I pump it up 6-8 times and that pressure allows me to fill 3 to 4 cells, depending on the volume of water needed. What I like about this is that the wand reaches anywhere in the bank and most important, I can watch the cells fill. I put a piece of electrical tape around the wand and insert the wand into the cell to the tape level. This is my water level and it's really easy to tell when the electrolyte reaches the end of the wand. About 1/2 of my customers are off grid and most use the sprayer method with good results. BTW, this was a brand new sprayer, dedicated to distilled water and hidden away from my wife, who loves to grab what ever is available in my shop. And at least here in snow country, the sprayers are all on sale! Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46 Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. Joel Davidson wrote: Wrenches, Thank you for your feedback that automatic watering is not automatic or reliable. Valves can stick open (a flood) or shut (a dry cell) or not seat properly (dripping that becomes a slow flood). I'll get a 2.5 quart watering can sold at auto parts stores - unless you all have a better idea. Thanks again, Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 6:14 PM Subject: Battery Automatic Watering Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
That's what the red oil pressure light on the dash is for., silly. Bob-O On Dec 10, 2009, at 4:21 PM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote: Well said Jeff... like with auto genny starting systems... if the customer is not willing to be involved with flying their system, only insisting on some auto-pilot system... a crash is inevitable. Watering the batteries is an opportunity for the customer to be more involved with their system. If they are not into it, then maybe they shouldn't have it. Do they want an automatic engine oil checking system in their car too? sheesh Todd___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery 'Automatic'' Watering
We found once we removed the BFS watering caps, that the 5 gal jug, and tubing made an excellent manual filling system. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Dec 10, 2009, at 8:44 PM, frenergy wrote: For all of the rest of us Bozos that still manually water cells, try using a set-up used by those who have made their own beer. It's called a bottle filler in beer making, this is connected to a racking cane via 4-6 feet of 3/8 clear tubing. I hang a one gallon jug of distilled water 2-3 feet above the bank, insert the racking cane (which is just a section of rigid tubing with a bend in it) into jug, bottle filler is on the other cell-filling end of the tubing. Once you've started the siphon simply insert the bottle filler into each cell far enough to start water to flow from jug to cell. You can easily watch progress of filling, when full, lift up on bottle filler, distilled water stops flowing...done. On to next cell. This method takes me about 10-12 seconds to accurately fill each of my 1200 Ahr HUP cells in one attempt as filling visibility is good. Yes, you'll need to change the jug a few times...usually 3 times for my pack (1200 Ahrs @ 24V). The shut off on the bottle filler is pretty positive. Bill Feather River Solar Electric - Original Message - From: Joel Davidson To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:07 AM Subject: **Possible_Spam** Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering On-grid. The IBE lead-antimony cells already installed. So far Wrench feedback is automatic watering systems are unreliable. The watering system that IBE sells to its forklift customers requires the user to manually turn it on and off because the feeder cap float valve does not seal tightly and the drips add up resulting in overfilled cells and a mess. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: toddc...@finestplanet.com To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering On grid or off grid Joel? If grid tied /w battery backup, use lead calcium wet cells. They only need watering about every 18 months. Todd On Wednesday, December 9, 2009 6:14pm, Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net said: Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.102/2556 - Release Date: 12/10/09 07:36:00 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Todd, People already have a automatic engine oil checking system in their cars. It’s called a “idiot light” for a reason. I imagine that there are a lot of people who never check the oil until the light comes on. Years ago…in a solar galaxy far far away…Photron had a nifty water level sensor that replaced a battery cap and would send a warning signal out if the electrolyte level got low, at least in that cell. Sure would be nice if someone picked up that ball and integrated it into their System Control Panel or MATE. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of toddc...@finestplanet.com Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 4:21 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Well said Jeff... like with auto genny starting systems... if the customer is not willing to be involved with flying their system, only insisting on some auto-pilot system... a crash is inevitable. Watering the batteries is an opportunity for the customer to be more involved with their system. If they are not into it, then maybe they shouldn't have it. Do they want an automatic engine oil checking system in their car too? sheesh Todd On Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:11am, Jeff Oldham starpowe...@juno.com said: When you try to make something idiot proof they just come up with a better idiot -jeff o From the Solar, Wind and Hydro powered office of Jeff Oldham/Regenerative SOLutions Banking Click here to find the perfect banking opportunity! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=5_DINIrot3FEJ_3_4JNEeQAAJz3wjMeYFQQEj9ak8QigdzdLAAYAAADNAAAXeAA= ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Not to take this thread too far into the land of metaphors, but I'm sure everyone knows that by the time a vehicle's oil pressure light comes on, severe engine damage has already been done. My point is, most of our current earthly problems are because people do not want to be bothered with thinking about where their energy comes from, how much they use, or what the environmental repercussions of their consumption is. So now it seems to me we are trying to enable that unconsciousness with auto genny starts, auto battery watering systems and gigantic, lipstick on a pig sized arrays? This is symptom solving folks... and will never lead to where we need to go. If someone is unable or unwilling to do something as simple as checking the electrolyte level in their batteries, maybe we should consider whether a grid tie/w battery backup system is appropriate for them? rant off... Todd On Friday, December 11, 2009 9:30am, Brian Teitelbaum bteitelb...@aeesolar.com said: Todd, People already have a automatic engine oil checking system intheir cars. It’s called a “idiot light” for a reason. I imagine that there area lot of people who never check the oil until the light comes on. Years ago…in a solar galaxy far far away…Photron had a niftywater level sensor that replaced a battery cap and would send a warning signalout if the electrolyte level got low, at least in that cell. Sure would be niceif someone picked up that ball and integrated it into their System Control Panelor MATE. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of toddc...@finestplanet.com Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 4:21 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Wellsaid Jeff... like with auto genny starting systems... if the customer is notwilling to be involved with flying their system, only insisting on someauto-pilot system... a crash is inevitable. Watering the batteriesis an opportunity for the customer to be more involved with their system. Ifthey are not into it, then maybe they shouldn't have it. Do they want anautomatic engine oil checking system in their car too? sheesh Todd On Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:11am, Jeff Oldhamstarpowe...@juno.com said: When you try to make something idiot proof they just come up with abetter idiot -jeff o From the Solar, Wind and Hydro powered office of JeffOldham/Regenerative SOLutions ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Wrenches, Thank you for your feedback that automatic watering is not automatic or reliable. Valves can stick open (a flood) or shut (a dry cell) or not seat properly (dripping that becomes a slow flood). I'll get a 2.5 quart watering can sold at auto parts stores - unless you all have a better idea. Thanks again, Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 6:14 PM Subject: Battery Automatic Watering Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery 'Automatic'' Watering
Fellow Wizards, We've found enema / douche bags, also known as combination bottles to be effective in this application. They come with an valve / shutoff that's simple and works great. It's a good test of a client's willingness to accept reasonable suggestions to see if they've got one the next time you visit. Or, you can give one as a gift. They're available at every pharmacy, everywhere. right next to the Vaseline. Seriously. Headlamps are recommended too. It's just plain crazy to try to use a funnel and gallon jug for this job. It's the responsibility of the dealer to educate clients on better ways to do it. I sold one BFS watering system three years ago. I did not promote it as automatic but as manual but laborsaving. I did say it would save considerable time, mess, inconvenience and inaccuracy. The client installed it himself, custom cutting the tubing lengths. The only problem reported to date was when the client forgot to close the valve to the tubing manifold while he was distracted by something else he was doing simultaneously. Some cells overfilled. He took responsibility for spacing out. It takes only seconds to top off an entire bank of cells. All you do is open one valve, hang out, close the valve. It's also adviseable to purchase the reservoir - tubing quick disconnect accessory and use it after every filling. Then... no worries. Face it, checking electrolye levels sucks. Yet it has to be done. Anything that makes the job easier is a godsend. I also use the battery maintainance issue to try to try to convince clients to minimize the total number of caps in a given bank. This means, if possible practically and financially, a maximum of 12 caps in a 24 volt system or 24 in a 48 volt system. Of course, this also equates to a single series string and possibly larger, more expensive cells. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- You wrote: We found once we removed the BFS watering caps, that the 5 gal jug, and tubing made an excellent manual filling system. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Dec 10, 2009, at 8:44 PM, frenergy wrote: For all of the rest of us Bozos that still manually water cells, try using a set-up used by those who have made their own beer. It's called a bottle filler in beer making, this is connected to a racking cane via 4-6 feet of 3/8 clear tubing. I hang a one gallon jug of distilled water 2-3 feet above the bank, insert the racking cane (which is just a section of rigid tubing with a bend in it) into jug, bottle filler is on the other cell-filling end of the tubing. Once you've started the siphon simply insert the bottle filler into each cell far enough to start water to flow from jug to cell. You can easily watch progress of filling, when full, lift up on bottle filler, distilled water stops flowing...done. On to next cell. This method takes me about 10-12 seconds to accurately fill each of my 1200 Ahr HUP cells in one attempt as filling visibility is good. Yes, you'll need to change the jug a few times...usually 3 times for my pack (1200 Ahrs @ 24V). The shut off on the bottle filler is pretty positive. Bill Feather River Solar Electric - Original Message - From: Joel Davidson To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:07 AM Subject: **Possible_Spam** Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering On-grid. The IBE lead-antimony cells already installed. So far Wrench feedback is automatic watering systems are unreliable. The watering system that IBE sells to its forklift customers requires the user to manually turn it on and off because the feeder cap float valve does not seal tightly and the drips add up resulting in overfilled cells and a mess. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: toddc...@finestplanet.com To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering On grid or off grid Joel? If grid tied /w battery backup, use lead calcium wet cells. They only need watering about every 18 months. Todd On Wednesday, December 9, 2009 6:14pm, Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net said: Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine --- end of quote --- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
I've used the Liquid Precision units because they work with a gravity feed system with the tank just a few feet above the batteries. I haven't had any operational problems with them, yet. But I've broken several of them just trying to install or remove them. And they have to be removed to check specific gravity. I wouldn't give them a favorable recommendation either. I wish that I could still get the units that were made by Wastermaster, but they are no longer available in the U.S. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc R Ray Walters wrote: I have to highly recommend against Battery FIlling Systems. After 3 years trying to make their products work, we are pulling all watering systems out, and offering full refunds. Some of the caps leaked at only 1 psi of pressure, some overfilled the batteries causing acid spills, and the worst: some caps never filled at all, leaving some cells under filled. Repeated calls to their main contact Rob Source at Battery Filling Systems have gone unanswered. We're back to manual filling as we just haven't found anything reliable enough to deal with this extremely important task. Of 10 service call backs, 8 were problems with BFS products. (and we only made a couple of bucks per cell in the first place) Please avoid this product like the plague! R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Dec 9, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Joel Davidson wrote: Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.101/2555 - Release Date: 12/09/09 11:41:00 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
I agree with Ray. We used a battery filling system once and had the same problems with leaks, cells over filled and under filled. We took it out and will never use a battery filling system again. If a customer is not willing, or around enough, to do proper flooded battery maintenance, we recommend sealed batteries. Randy Brooks Brooks Solar, Inc. Solar Power for People 140 Columbia View Chelan, WA 98816 509-682-9646 ra...@brookssolar.com www.BrooksSolar.com On Dec 9, 2009, at 7:06 PM, R Ray Walters wrote: I have to highly recommend against Battery FIlling Systems. After 3 years trying to make their products work, we are pulling all watering systems out, and offering full refunds. Some of the caps leaked at only 1 psi of pressure, some overfilled the batteries causing acid spills, and the worst: some caps never filled at all, leaving some cells under filled. Repeated calls to their main contact Rob Source at Battery Filling Systems have gone unanswered. We're back to manual filling as we just haven't found anything reliable enough to deal with this extremely important task. Of 10 service call backs, 8 were problems with BFS products. (and we only made a couple of bucks per cell in the first place) Please avoid this product like the plague! R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Dec 9, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Joel Davidson wrote: Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches- re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re- wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Joel, I looked at Battery watering Systems equipment at the Anaheim show and the prices looked better than other systems I have seen and the equipment looked fine. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc www.solarwork.com E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 I will be the shift in how the world uses power! - Dana Orzel -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Joel Davidson Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 7:14 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.99/2553 - Release Date: 12/09/09 00:32:00 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
On grid or off grid Joel? If grid tied /w battery backup, use lead calcium wet cells. They only need watering about every 18 months. Todd On Wednesday, December 9, 2009 6:14pm, Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net said: Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
HI Todd, Given the super long time between waterings, do you send a reminder or work out a service contract? jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
It's water. Unless your battery shed is at least somewhat heated, it freezes in the winter most places. Him no work good. bob-O On Dec 10, 2009, at 8:43 AM, Dana wrote: Joel, I looked at Battery watering Systems equipment at the Anaheim show and the prices looked better than other systems I have seen and the equipment looked fine. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc www.solarwork.com E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 I will be the shift in how the world uses power! - Dana Orzel ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
I've had pretty good luck with Pro-Fill from Jan Watercraft Prod. But will only use them on monster battery banks of over 40 caps or so and only after trying my best to talk the owner out of it. The most important factor with these is to NEVER go fully automatic, it is imperative that a human stands watch as they open the fill valve until they close it. A stuck float can flood battery tops and cause a short that can lead to a fire. Perhaps on an EV where the cells can be a mother to get to for a smaller application. My largest battery bank has 288 cells to fill, it is just unrealistic for the owner to fill all of these manually and if they did I'm sure they would flood more battery tops then a filling system would ever do. Another pro side is that they go a long way towards minimizing battery contamination from careless filling habits. When you try to make something idiot proof they just come up with a better idiot -jeff o From the Solar, Wind and Hydro powered office of Jeff Oldham/Regenerative SOLutions Banking Click here to find the perfect banking opportunity! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=5_DINIrot3FEJ_3_4JNEeQAAJz3wjMeYFQQEj9ak8QigdzdLAAYAAADNAAAXeAA= ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
On-grid. The IBE lead-antimony cells already installed. So far Wrench feedback is automatic watering systems are unreliable. The watering system that IBE sells to its forklift customers requires the user to manually turn it on and off because the feeder cap float valve does not seal tightly and the drips add up resulting in overfilled cells and a mess. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: toddc...@finestplanet.com To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering On grid or off grid Joel? If grid tied /w battery backup, use lead calcium wet cells. They only need watering about every 18 months. Todd On Wednesday, December 9, 2009 6:14pm, Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net said: Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Malibu, California record low 33 degrees F. Here we sing, The weather outside is delightful. - Original Message - From: Bob-O Schultze bo...@electronconnection.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering It's water. Unless your battery shed is at least somewhat heated, it freezes in the winter most places. Him no work good. bob-O On Dec 10, 2009, at 8:43 AM, Dana wrote: Joel, I looked at Battery watering Systems equipment at the Anaheim show and the prices looked better than other systems I have seen and the equipment looked fine. Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc www.solarwork.com E - d...@solarwork.com V - 970.626.5253 F - 970.626.4140 C - 970.209.4076 I will be the shift in how the world uses power! - Dana Orzel ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
I do not have these an any customer's systems yet. The data comes from my Surrette evaluation/beta test bank. All my future battery based/grid ties will get these though. Todd On Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:19am, jay peltz j...@asis.com said: HI Todd, Given the super long time between waterings, do you send a reminder or work out a service contract? jay peltz power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Well said Jeff... like with auto genny starting systems... if the customer is not willing to be involved with flying their system, only insisting on some auto-pilot system... a crash is inevitable. Watering the batteries is an opportunity for the customer to be more involved with their system. If they are not into it, then maybe they shouldn't have it. Do they want an automatic engine oil checking system in their car too? sheesh Todd On Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:11am, Jeff Oldham starpowe...@juno.com said: When you try to make something idiot proof they just come up with a better idiot -jeff o From the Solar, Wind and Hydro powered office of Jeff Oldham/Regenerative SOLutions Banking Click here to find the perfect banking opportunity! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=5_DINIrot3FEJ_3_4JNEeQAAJz3wjMeYFQQEj9ak8QigdzdLAAYAAADNAAAXeAA= ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Battery 'Automatic'' Watering
For all of the rest of us Bozos that still manually water cells, try using a set-up used by those who have made their own beer. It's called a bottle filler in beer making, this is connected to a racking cane via 4-6 feet of 3/8 clear tubing. I hang a one gallon jug of distilled water 2-3 feet above the bank, insert the racking cane (which is just a section of rigid tubing with a bend in it) into jug, bottle filler is on the other cell-filling end of the tubing. Once you've started the siphon simply insert the bottle filler into each cell far enough to start water to flow from jug to cell. You can easily watch progress of filling, when full, lift up on bottle filler, distilled water stops flowing...done. On to next cell. This method takes me about 10-12 seconds to accurately fill each of my 1200 Ahr HUP cells in one attempt as filling visibility is good. Yes, you'll need to change the jug a few times...usually 3 times for my pack (1200 Ahrs @ 24V). The shut off on the bottle filler is pretty positive. Bill Feather River Solar Electric - Original Message - From: Joel Davidson To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 11:07 AM Subject: **Possible_Spam** Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering On-grid. The IBE lead-antimony cells already installed. So far Wrench feedback is automatic watering systems are unreliable. The watering system that IBE sells to its forklift customers requires the user to manually turn it on and off because the feeder cap float valve does not seal tightly and the drips add up resulting in overfilled cells and a mess. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: toddc...@finestplanet.com To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering On grid or off grid Joel? If grid tied /w battery backup, use lead calcium wet cells. They only need watering about every 18 months. Todd On Wednesday, December 9, 2009 6:14pm, Joel Davidson joel.david...@sbcglobal.net said: Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.102/2556 - Release Date: 12/10/09 07:36:00 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering
I have to highly recommend against Battery FIlling Systems. After 3 years trying to make their products work, we are pulling all watering systems out, and offering full refunds. Some of the caps leaked at only 1 psi of pressure, some overfilled the batteries causing acid spills, and the worst: some caps never filled at all, leaving some cells under filled. Repeated calls to their main contact Rob Source at Battery Filling Systems have gone unanswered. We're back to manual filling as we just haven't found anything reliable enough to deal with this extremely important task. Of 10 service call backs, 8 were problems with BFS products. (and we only made a couple of bucks per cell in the first place) Please avoid this product like the plague! R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Dec 9, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Joel Davidson wrote: Wrenches, We installed 48 each IBE 1-85N-15 cells (24 in series in 2 Direct Power Water battery boxes). We do not want to use Hydrocaps. Your suggestions for an automatic watering system would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays. Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
