Re: [RE-wrenches] Brown-Out Prone Opportunity Charging

2020-03-16 Thread Jeff Clearwater 
Yes LFP - the grid is only on a few hours in the morning and a few hours 
in the evening and even that is not reliable.  Diesel is to be avoided 
as much as possible as diesel prices are volatile now that Venezuela is 
closing the tap and local maintenance is iffy.    So I'm looking at 
buffering with as many batteries as financing will allow.  So PS and 
battery need to be sized above power consumption.  It's a small hospital 
so consumption varies quite a bit daily - the more they have the more 
they use and can serve. Solar roof space is limited to about 16 KW - so 
grid opportunity charging could make all the difference for them. We are 
in the 24 KW (5 sec) peak, 8 KW typical, 60-100 KWHrs/day range.  Doing 
more data logging to pin that down more.  Thanks for your input!


Jeff Clearwater
Village Power Design

Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote on 3/16/20 10:05 AM:

Did you mean to say LFP? It depends on who made the battery. LFP 
batteries can be charged using CC/CV. Some, like the Elite PS/GBS 
battery packages can accept a simple CV power supply of 3.65 Vpc.


The inverter is always on and isolated from the grid so it’s not 
affected by poor power quality unless you allow ripple or spikes to 
the battery system. That should be protected at the AC input of your 
charger/PS and PS filtering.


What is the daily power consumption? If the battery and PS are sized 
to meet your loads, then it won’t matter when the grid is available. 
Grid Outages longer than you design for can be backed up with a 
generator.


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems



On Mar 13, 2020, at 6:09 PM, Jeff Clearwater 
mailto:je...@villagepowerdesign.com>> 
wrote:


Thanks All,

Mick and Tump - I'll look into the Victron - good suggestion - Thanks!

Chris - I'm not sure a transformer will buffer the spikes and 
frequency but just pass them on - others?


Larry and Jerry - If I were to go with the separate battery charger/PS 
approach - what specific  48 V  LFeP battery Charger/PS might you 
recommend and how to protect it with what sort of surge and LV 
equipment?  If either the inverter or PS/Charger is protected within 
too narrow a range then it might defeat the purpose - wanting to 
maximize pulling in as much opportunity charging as we can get.


Seems to me like there might be a market for a highly tolerant battery 
charger between 160-260 VAC and frequency tolerant as well - something 
bulletproof we could put on these systems - perhaps that is the 
Victron - but I'd rather have it in a separate beefy battery charger 
then risk the inverters - especially if we are going to buffer the 
customer from the grid with the battery/inverter system.


For instance we have a hospital that can only use the available grid 
for the office but they can't risk it for their hospital equipment.  
But If I could pull the grid into batteries safely and always power 
their loads with the high reliability battery/inverter system - now we 
are talking.


So specific 48V battery chargers that can take it? Any equipment out 
there anyone is aware of?


Thanks!

Jeff

Tump wrote on 3/13/20 2:47 PM:
Check out the Victron line of Chargers as well as the inverter 
charger units. AC in 187-265 45-65 Hz. for the inverters 230V/50Hz, 
inverter.
Please feel free to e mail me 4 additional info. Great BT support / 
internet access. well thought out product.
On Mar 13, 2020, at 5:11 PM, Jerry Shafer > wrote:


Jeff
I have been there too in most cases we have programmed in the VAC 
max/mins with tighter setting so as the grid starts to go we just 
disconnect. I did just do a charger instead of the inverter because 
the grid was generally low on frequency but the charger just charged 
and l see it on optics when that happens

Jerry

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 12:03 PM Jeff Clearwater 
mailto:je...@villagepowerdesign.com>> 
wrote:


Good Day Esteemed Wrenchers,

So we are doing more work in developing countries where the grid
is super unreliable but on for some hours almost daily.

So let's say we have a grid that's on 9 AM - 11 AM and 4 PM - 7
PM each day but often browns-out during those hours and comes on
and off during those hours. 230 VAC voltage can drop to 160-180
periodically or go above 260 in spikes.

The present practice in many of these situations is for battery
based system designers/installers is to set up an off-grid
system in parallel to the mains but not relying on them - so the
grid AC IN is not connected.  They just install a transfer
switch and manually switch or they wire a critical loads panel
to the solar.

This avoids constant switching and nuisance shut-downs from the
battery inverter and protects it from burning out trying to
handle the grid.

MY QUESTION:

I'm wondering what we can do to use the grid when it is up for
opportunity charging of the batteries while at the same time not
subjecting our nice new battery in

Re: [RE-wrenches] Brown-Out Prone Opportunity Charging

2020-03-16 Thread Starlight Solar Power Systems 
Did you mean to say LFP? It depends on who made the battery. LFP batteries can 
be charged using CC/CV. Some, like the Elite PS/GBS battery packages can accept 
a simple CV power supply of 3.65 Vpc.

The inverter is always on and isolated from the grid so it’s not affected by 
poor power quality unless you allow ripple or spikes to the battery system. 
That should be protected at the AC input of your charger/PS and PS filtering. 

What is the daily power consumption? If the battery and PS are sized to meet 
your loads, then it won’t matter when the grid is available. Grid Outages 
longer than you design for can be backed up with a generator. 

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems



On Mar 13, 2020, at 6:09 PM, Jeff Clearwater  
wrote:

Thanks All,

Mick and Tump - I'll look into the Victron - good suggestion - Thanks!

Chris - I'm not sure a transformer will buffer the spikes and frequency but 
just pass them on - others?

Larry and Jerry - If I were to go with the separate battery charger/PS approach 
- what specific  48 V  LFeP battery Charger/PS might you recommend and how to 
protect it with what sort of surge and LV equipment?  If either the inverter or 
PS/Charger is protected within too narrow a range then it might defeat the 
purpose - wanting to maximize pulling in as much opportunity charging as we can 
get.

Seems to me like there might be a market for a highly tolerant battery charger 
between 160-260 VAC and frequency tolerant as well - something bulletproof we 
could put on these systems - perhaps that is the Victron - but I'd rather have 
it in a separate beefy battery charger then risk the inverters - especially if 
we are going to buffer the customer from the grid with the battery/inverter 
system.

For instance we have a hospital that can only use the available grid for the 
office but they can't risk it for their hospital equipment.  But If I could 
pull the grid into batteries safely and always power their loads with the high 
reliability battery/inverter system - now we are talking.

So specific 48V battery chargers that can take it? Any equipment out there 
anyone is aware of?

Thanks!

Jeff

Tump wrote on 3/13/20 2:47 PM:
> Check out the Victron line of Chargers as well as the inverter charger units. 
> AC in 187-265 45-65 Hz. for the inverters 230V/50Hz, inverter.
> Please feel free to e mail me 4 additional info. Great BT support / internet 
> access. well thought out product.
>> On Mar 13, 2020, at 5:11 PM, Jerry Shafer > > wrote:
>> 
>> Jeff
>> I have been there too in most cases we have programmed in the VAC max/mins 
>> with tighter setting so as the grid starts to go we just disconnect. I did 
>> just do a charger instead of the inverter because the grid was generally low 
>> on frequency but the charger just charged and l see it on optics when that 
>> happens
>> Jerry
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 12:03 PM Jeff Clearwater > > wrote:
>> Good Day Esteemed Wrenchers,
>> 
>> So we are doing more work in developing countries where the grid is super 
>> unreliable but on for some hours almost daily.
>> 
>> So let's say we have a grid that's on 9 AM - 11 AM and 4 PM - 7 PM each day 
>> but often browns-out during those hours and comes on and off during those 
>> hours. 230 VAC voltage can drop to 160-180 periodically or go above 260 in 
>> spikes.
>> 
>> The present practice in many of these situations is for battery based system 
>> designers/installers is to set up an off-grid system in parallel to the 
>> mains but not relying on them - so the grid AC IN is not connected.  They 
>> just install a transfer switch and manually switch or they wire a critical 
>> loads panel to the solar.
>> 
>> This avoids constant switching and nuisance shut-downs from the battery 
>> inverter and protects it from burning out trying to handle the grid.
>> 
>> MY QUESTION:
>> 
>> I'm wondering what we can do to use the grid when it is up for opportunity 
>> charging of the batteries while at the same time not subjecting our nice new 
>> battery inverters to constant brown-out tripping and possibly long term 
>> damage.
>> 
>> So question #1 - Is anyone using existing battery inverters but succesfully 
>> navigating such a grid variablity settings such that you are able to take 
>> advantage of the grid even if browning out often?
>> 
>> or question #2 - Can we add some sort of high Voltage and Frequency tolerant 
>> battery charger to the system - keep the battery inverter/charger off grid - 
>> but charge the batteries from something able to handle the wonky grid 
>> without constantly nuisance charging or burning itself up?
>> 
>> Your thoughts and wisdom I await!!!
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> ~~~
>> Jeff Clearwater
>> Village Power Design
>> linkedin  
>> www.villagepowerdesign.com 
>> cell - 413-559-9763
>

Re: [RE-wrenches] Brown-Out Prone Opportunity Charging

2020-03-13 Thread Jeff Clearwater 
Ahh I see now the Victron does have a line of Chargers that are not also 
Inverters. Thanks!


Anyone else with experience with specific equipment?

Thanks again,

Jeff


Jeff Clearwater wrote on 3/13/20 6:09 PM:


Thanks All,

Mick and Tump - I'll look into the Victron - good suggestion - Thanks!

Chris - I'm not sure a transformer will buffer the spikes and 
frequency but just pass them on - others?


Larry and Jerry - If I were to go with the separate battery charger/PS 
approach - what specific  48 V  LFeP battery Charger/PS might you 
recommend and how to protect it with what sort of surge and LV 
equipment?  If either the inverter or PS/Charger is protected within 
too narrow a range then it might defeat the purpose - wanting to 
maximize pulling in as much opportunity charging as we can get.


Seems to me like there might be a market for a highly tolerant battery 
charger between 160-260 VAC and frequency tolerant as well - something 
bulletproof we could put on these systems - perhaps that is the 
Victron - but I'd rather have it in a separate beefy battery charger 
then risk the inverters - especially if we are going to buffer the 
customer from the grid with the battery/inverter system.


For instance we have a hospital that can only use the available grid 
for the office but they can't risk it for their hospital equipment.  
But If I could pull the grid into batteries safely and always power 
their loads with the high reliability battery/inverter system - now we 
are talking.


So specific 48V battery chargers that can take it? Any equipment out 
there anyone is aware of?


Thanks!

Jeff

Tump wrote on 3/13/20 2:47 PM:
Check out the Victron line of Chargers as well as the inverter 
charger units. AC in 187-265 45-65 Hz. for the inverters 230V/50Hz, 
inverter.
Please feel free to e mail me 4 additional info. Great BT support / 
internet access. well thought out product.
On Mar 13, 2020, at 5:11 PM, Jerry Shafer > wrote:


Jeff
I have been there too in most cases we have programmed in the VAC 
max/mins with tighter setting so as the grid starts to go we just 
disconnect. I did just do a charger instead of the inverter because 
the grid was generally low on frequency but the charger just charged 
and l see it on optics when that happens

Jerry

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 12:03 PM Jeff Clearwater 
mailto:je...@villagepowerdesign.com>> 
wrote:


Good Day Esteemed Wrenchers,

So we are doing more work in developing countries where the grid
is super unreliable but on for some hours almost daily.

So let's say we have a grid that's on 9 AM - 11 AM and 4 PM - 7
PM each day but often browns-out during those hours and comes on
and off during those hours. 230 VAC voltage can drop to 160-180
periodically or go above 260 in spikes.

The present practice in many of these situations is for battery
based system designers/installers is to set up an off-grid
system in parallel to the mains but not relying on them - so the
grid AC IN is not connected.  They just install a transfer
switch and manually switch or they wire a critical loads panel
to the solar.

This avoids constant switching and nuisance shut-downs from the
battery inverter and protects it from burning out trying to
handle the grid.

MY QUESTION:

I'm wondering what we can do to use the grid when it is up for
opportunity charging of the batteries while at the same time not
subjecting our nice new battery inverters to constant brown-out
tripping and possibly long term damage.

So question #1 - Is anyone using existing battery inverters but
succesfully navigating such a grid variablity settings such that
you are able to take advantage of the grid even if browning out
often?

or question #2 - Can we add some sort of high Voltage and
Frequency tolerant battery charger to the system - keep the
battery inverter/charger off grid - but charge the batteries
from something able to handle the wonky grid without constantly
nuisance charging or burning itself up?

Your thoughts and wisdom I await!!!

Best,

Jeff


-- 
~~~

Jeff Clearwater
Village Power Design
linkedin 
www.villagepowerdesign.com 
cell - 413-559-9763
~~~
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Brown-Out Prone Opportunity Charging

2020-03-13 Thread Jeff Clearwater 

Thanks All,

Mick and Tump - I'll look into the Victron - good suggestion - Thanks!

Chris - I'm not sure a transformer will buffer the spikes and frequency 
but just pass them on - others?


Larry and Jerry - If I were to go with the separate battery charger/PS 
approach - what specific  48 V  LFeP battery Charger/PS might you 
recommend and how to protect it with what sort of surge and LV 
equipment?  If either the inverter or PS/Charger is protected within too 
narrow a range then it might defeat the purpose - wanting to maximize 
pulling in as much opportunity charging as we can get.


Seems to me like there might be a market for a highly tolerant battery 
charger between 160-260 VAC and frequency tolerant as well - something 
bulletproof we could put on these systems - perhaps that is the Victron 
- but I'd rather have it in a separate beefy battery charger then risk 
the inverters - especially if we are going to buffer the customer from 
the grid with the battery/inverter system.


For instance we have a hospital that can only use the available grid for 
the office but they can't risk it for their hospital equipment.  But If 
I could pull the grid into batteries safely and always power their loads 
with the high reliability battery/inverter system - now we are talking.


So specific 48V battery chargers that can take it? Any equipment out 
there anyone is aware of?


Thanks!

Jeff

Tump wrote on 3/13/20 2:47 PM:
Check out the Victron line of Chargers as well as the inverter charger 
units. AC in 187-265 45-65 Hz. for the inverters 230V/50Hz, inverter.
Please feel free to e mail me 4 additional info. Great BT support / 
internet access. well thought out product.
On Mar 13, 2020, at 5:11 PM, Jerry Shafer > wrote:


Jeff
I have been there too in most cases we have programmed in the VAC 
max/mins with tighter setting so as the grid starts to go we just 
disconnect. I did just do a charger instead of the inverter because 
the grid was generally low on frequency but the charger just charged 
and l see it on optics when that happens

Jerry

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 12:03 PM Jeff Clearwater 
mailto:je...@villagepowerdesign.com>> 
wrote:


Good Day Esteemed Wrenchers,

So we are doing more work in developing countries where the grid
is super unreliable but on for some hours almost daily.

So let's say we have a grid that's on 9 AM - 11 AM and 4 PM - 7
PM each day but often browns-out during those hours and comes on
and off during those hours. 230 VAC voltage can drop to 160-180
periodically or go above 260 in spikes.

The present practice in many of these situations is for battery
based system designers/installers is to set up an off-grid system
in parallel to the mains but not relying on them - so the grid AC
IN is not connected.  They just install a transfer switch and
manually switch or they wire a critical loads panel to the solar.

This avoids constant switching and nuisance shut-downs from the
battery inverter and protects it from burning out trying to
handle the grid.

MY QUESTION:

I'm wondering what we can do to use the grid when it is up for
opportunity charging of the batteries while at the same time not
subjecting our nice new battery inverters to constant brown-out
tripping and possibly long term damage.

So question #1 - Is anyone using existing battery inverters but
succesfully navigating such a grid variablity settings such that
you are able to take advantage of the grid even if browning out
often?

or question #2 - Can we add some sort of high Voltage and
Frequency tolerant battery charger to the system - keep the
battery inverter/charger off grid - but charge the batteries from
something able to handle the wonky grid without constantly
nuisance charging or burning itself up?

Your thoughts and wisdom I await!!!

Best,

Jeff


-- 
~~~

Jeff Clearwater
Village Power Design
linkedin 
www.villagepowerdesign.com 
cell - 413-559-9763
~~~
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Brown-Out Prone Opportunity Charging

2020-03-13 Thread Tump 
Check out the Victron line of Chargers as well as the inverter charger units. 
AC in 187-265 45-65 Hz. for the inverters 230V/50Hz, inverter.
Please feel free to e mail me 4 additional info. Great BT support / internet 
access. well thought out product.
> On Mar 13, 2020, at 5:11 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> 
> Jeff
> I have been there too in most cases we have programmed in the VAC max/mins 
> with tighter setting so as the grid starts to go we just disconnect. I did 
> just do a charger instead of the inverter because the grid was generally low 
> on frequency but the charger just charged and l see it on optics when that 
> happens
> Jerry
> 
> On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 12:03 PM Jeff Clearwater  > wrote:
> Good Day Esteemed Wrenchers,
> 
> So we are doing more work in developing countries where the grid is super 
> unreliable but on for some hours almost daily.
> 
> So let's say we have a grid that's on 9 AM - 11 AM and 4 PM - 7 PM each day 
> but often browns-out during those hours and comes on and off during those 
> hours. 230 VAC voltage can drop to 160-180 periodically or go above 260 in 
> spikes.
> 
> The present practice in many of these situations is for battery based system 
> designers/installers is to set up an off-grid system in parallel to the mains 
> but not relying on them - so the grid AC IN is not connected.  They just 
> install a transfer switch and manually switch or they wire a critical loads 
> panel to the solar.
> 
> This avoids constant switching and nuisance shut-downs from the battery 
> inverter and protects it from burning out trying to handle the grid.
> 
> MY QUESTION:
> 
> I'm wondering what we can do to use the grid when it is up for opportunity 
> charging of the batteries while at the same time not subjecting our nice new 
> battery inverters to constant brown-out tripping and possibly long term 
> damage.
> 
> So question #1 - Is anyone using existing battery inverters but succesfully 
> navigating such a grid variablity settings such that you are able to take 
> advantage of the grid even if browning out often?
> 
> or question #2 - Can we add some sort of high Voltage and Frequency tolerant 
> battery charger to the system - keep the battery inverter/charger off grid - 
> but charge the batteries from something able to handle the wonky grid without 
> constantly nuisance charging or burning itself up?
> 
> Your thoughts and wisdom I await!!!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Jeff
> 
> 
> -- 
> ~~~
> Jeff Clearwater
> Village Power Design
> linkedin  
> www.villagepowerdesign.com 
> cell - 413-559-9763
> ~~~
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Brown-Out Prone Opportunity Charging

2020-03-13 Thread Mick Abraham 
Hello, Jeff & All~ In the world of high end yachts, the crew needs to be
able to plug in and charge in various regions of the world. Some marine
oriented battery chargers are "universal input" & designed to run from 90v
to 265 volts, 50/60 hz according to one spec sheet for the Victron Phoenix.
The actual frequency tolerance may be more wide than what the specs say;
check the manual to be sure.

Jeff's suggested strategy puts the charger/battery/inverter in between the
messy grid power and the loads. It's sort of a power quality buffer.

The Wrench List is the Bomb!

Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com

Landline: 970-731-4675
Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584
ᐧ
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Brown-Out Prone Opportunity Charging

2020-03-13 Thread Starlight Solar Power Systems 
Hello Jeff,

Why mess with the grids unreliable and potentially harmful power. Go with your 
question 2…. using the power inverters full time with no AC input, no transfer 
switch. You will need a power supply/battery charger large enough to power the 
loads through the inverter and maintain the battery at 100%. Protect the PS 
with the appropriate AC surge or LV protection. With this setup your AC power 
is always on with no brownouts or loss of power.  

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Mar 13, 2020, at 12:02 PM, Jeff Clearwater  
wrote:

Good Day Esteemed Wrenchers,

So we are doing more work in developing countries where the grid is super 
unreliable but on for some hours almost daily.

So let's say we have a grid that's on 9 AM - 11 AM and 4 PM - 7 PM each day but 
often browns-out during those hours and comes on and off during those hours. 
230 VAC voltage can drop to 160-180 periodically or go above 260 in spikes.

The present practice in many of these situations is for battery based system 
designers/installers is to set up an off-grid system in parallel to the mains 
but not relying on them - so the grid AC IN is not connected.  They just 
install a transfer switch and manually switch or they wire a critical loads 
panel to the solar.

This avoids constant switching and nuisance shut-downs from the battery 
inverter and protects it from burning out trying to handle the grid.

MY QUESTION:

I'm wondering what we can do to use the grid when it is up for opportunity 
charging of the batteries while at the same time not subjecting our nice new 
battery inverters to constant brown-out tripping and possibly long term damage.

So question #1 - Is anyone using existing battery inverters but succesfully 
navigating such a grid variablity settings such that you are able to take 
advantage of the grid even if browning out often?

or question #2 - Can we add some sort of high Voltage and Frequency tolerant 
battery charger to the system - keep the battery inverter/charger off grid - 
but charge the batteries from something able to handle the wonky grid without 
constantly nuisance charging or burning itself up?

Your thoughts and wisdom I await!!!

Best,

Jeff


-- 
~~~
Jeff Clearwater
Village Power Design
linkedin  
www.villagepowerdesign.com 
cell - 413-559-9763
~~~
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Brown-Out Prone Opportunity Charging

2020-03-13 Thread Jerry Shafer 
Jeff
I have been there too in most cases we have programmed in the VAC max/mins
with tighter setting so as the grid starts to go we just disconnect. I did
just do a charger instead of the inverter because the grid was generally
low on frequency but the charger just charged and l see it on optics when
that happens
Jerry

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 12:03 PM Jeff Clearwater 
wrote:

> Good Day Esteemed Wrenchers,
>
> So we are doing more work in developing countries where the grid is super
> unreliable but on for some hours almost daily.
>
> So let's say we have a grid that's on 9 AM - 11 AM and 4 PM - 7 PM each
> day but often browns-out during those hours and comes on and off during
> those hours. 230 VAC voltage can drop to 160-180 periodically or go above
> 260 in spikes.
>
> The present practice in many of these situations is for battery based
> system designers/installers is to set up an off-grid system in parallel to
> the mains but not relying on them - so the grid AC IN is not connected.
> They just install a transfer switch and manually switch or they wire a
> critical loads panel to the solar.
>
> This avoids constant switching and nuisance shut-downs from the battery
> inverter and protects it from burning out trying to handle the grid.
>
> MY QUESTION:
>
> I'm wondering what we can do to use the grid when it is up for opportunity
> charging of the batteries while at the same time not subjecting our nice
> new battery inverters to constant brown-out tripping and possibly long term
> damage.
>
> So question #1 - Is anyone using existing battery inverters but
> succesfully navigating such a grid variablity settings such that you are
> able to take advantage of the grid even if browning out often?
>
> or question #2 - Can we add some sort of high Voltage and Frequency
> tolerant battery charger to the system - keep the battery inverter/charger
> off grid - but charge the batteries from something able to handle the wonky
> grid without constantly nuisance charging or burning itself up?
>
> Your thoughts and wisdom I await!!!
>
> Best,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> --
> ~~~
> Jeff Clearwater
> Village Power Design
> linkedin 
> www.villagepowerdesign.com
> cell - 413-559-9763
> ~~~
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Brown-Out Prone Opportunity Charging

2020-03-13 Thread Chris Sparadeo 
Hi Jeff,

Kind of an odd suggestion, but what if you try the following:

Install a 240v to 120v auto transformer (like the Outback PSX 240) and have
the grid feed your 240v input and then either split your 120v output into 2
conductors for 240v or transform from 120 back to 240v. This may help take
some of the wonky voltage right down to a constant output voltage.

I’ve never tried this, but sounds crazy enough to work.

On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 3:02 PM Jeff Clearwater <
je...@villagepowerdesign.com> wrote:

> Good Day Esteemed Wrenchers,
>
> So we are doing more work in developing countries where the grid is super
> unreliable but on for some hours almost daily.
>
> So let's say we have a grid that's on 9 AM - 11 AM and 4 PM - 7 PM each
> day but often browns-out during those hours and comes on and off during
> those hours. 230 VAC voltage can drop to 160-180 periodically or go above
> 260 in spikes.
>
> The present practice in many of these situations is for battery based
> system designers/installers is to set up an off-grid system in parallel to
> the mains but not relying on them - so the grid AC IN is not connected.
> They just install a transfer switch and manually switch or they wire a
> critical loads panel to the solar.
>
> This avoids constant switching and nuisance shut-downs from the battery
> inverter and protects it from burning out trying to handle the grid.
>
> MY QUESTION:
>
> I'm wondering what we can do to use the grid when it is up for opportunity
> charging of the batteries while at the same time not subjecting our nice
> new battery inverters to constant brown-out tripping and possibly long term
> damage.
>
> So question #1 - Is anyone using existing battery inverters but
> succesfully navigating such a grid variablity settings such that you are
> able to take advantage of the grid even if browning out often?
>
> or question #2 - Can we add some sort of high Voltage and Frequency
> tolerant battery charger to the system - keep the battery inverter/charger
> off grid - but charge the batteries from something able to handle the wonky
> grid without constantly nuisance charging or burning itself up?
>
> Your thoughts and wisdom I await!!!
>
> Best,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> --
> ~~~
> Jeff Clearwater
> Village Power Design
> linkedin 
> www.villagepowerdesign.com
> cell - 413-559-9763
> ~~~
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
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> --
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[RE-wrenches] Brown-Out Prone Opportunity Charging

2020-03-13 Thread Jeff Clearwater 

Good Day Esteemed Wrenchers,

So we are doing more work in developing countries where the grid is 
super unreliable but on for some hours almost daily.


So let's say we have a grid that's on 9 AM - 11 AM and 4 PM - 7 PM each 
day but often browns-out during those hours and comes on and off during 
those hours. 230 VAC voltage can drop to 160-180 periodically or go 
above 260 in spikes.


The present practice in many of these situations is for battery based 
system designers/installers is to set up an off-grid system in parallel 
to the mains but not relying on them - so the grid AC IN is not 
connected.  They just install a transfer switch and manually switch or 
they wire a critical loads panel to the solar.


This avoids constant switching and nuisance shut-downs from the battery 
inverter and protects it from burning out trying to handle the grid.


MY QUESTION:

I'm wondering what we can do to use the grid when it is up for 
opportunity charging of the batteries while at the same time not 
subjecting our nice new battery inverters to constant brown-out tripping 
and possibly long term damage.


So question #1 - Is anyone using existing battery inverters but 
succesfully navigating such a grid variablity settings such that you are 
able to take advantage of the grid even if browning out often?


or question #2 - Can we add some sort of high Voltage and Frequency 
tolerant battery charger to the system - keep the battery 
inverter/charger off grid - but charge the batteries from something able 
to handle the wonky grid without constantly nuisance charging or burning 
itself up?


Your thoughts and wisdom I await!!!

Best,

Jeff


--
~~~
Jeff Clearwater
Village Power Design
linkedin 
www.villagepowerdesign.com 
cell - 413-559-9763
~~~
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