Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing
I would recommend using Sikaflex 1A. It is about as environmentally sound as a caulking comes. Moisture curing, as well. One other thought (if someone hasnt already mentioned it): put this puppy at the bottom of your string so that the potential difference to ground is a low as possible. - Peter _ From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill Hoffer Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:12 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing Brian In my past life working for a module manufacturer, we used Dow Corning PV 804 silicone sealant. It comes in black and white flavors, usually not found off the shelf at Home Depo. I believe it is the standard used by most module manufacturers and the only silicon sealant that meets UL746 Polymeric materials for electrical applications (Insulating tabs electrically). We experimented with many types with similar results, but when UL listing a module you can only use UL listed components (or you get to pay to perform those tests on that material too!). The price of PV 804 reflects the UL listing. You would need to ask a chemist at Dow Corning if it has a different composition than the common off the shelf varieties. It is great stuff, sticks to everything (especially opposite colored pants!) and moves well between two materials that may expand and contract at different rates with varying temperatures, like a module is often exposed to. Bill On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Brian Teitelbaum bteitelb...@aeesolar.com wrote: I like Blairs idea, but Ive always used a silicone sealant that doesnt use acetic acid as the curing agent. Dow #739 is one type, but any silicone sealant that is rated as food-grade, or for aquariums, should work fine. The 739 is a moisture-cure, 100% silicone, which uses moisture present in the air as the curing agent. I was told many years ago that this is the stuff that is used by module manufacturers to attach and seal module junction boxes and the exit point in the laminate where the tabs come out. It would be great if a module rep could confirm this with us. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Blair May Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:09 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing I use a heat gun to remove moisture smooth out the rip then I've used some bitchathane w/ foil tape over that. I am not sure about the possible corrosive effects of the silicone during curing. -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of bob Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:49 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing I have a customer who just put a rip in the (tedlar?) on the back of a Solar World 175 watt panel. For some reason he thought that he needed to move the leg to a different hole on his RGM mount instead of just collapsing it. Whats the best way to seal it back up? There is no other internal damage that is noticeable its about 1.5 long and ½ at the widest end. My first thought is to use silicone caulk, but I thought I would pick the collective brain, so to speak. Thanks, Bob Ellison ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Bill Hoffer PE Sunergy Engineering Services PLLC 2504 Columbia Ave NW East Wenatchee WA 98802-3941 suneng...@gmail.com (509)470-7762 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing
Bob, My follow-up as promised... The sealant in my office is Dow Corning Solar PV 804. The tube states it's Neutral silicone, non-corrosive. The sealant I have is black, but it's also available in white. As Brian mentioned below, this isn't an off-the-shelf product. We ordered some and waited several weeks for it to arrive. He's also correct about at least one aspect of the application usage .. it's used to attach junction boxes to PV. Likely other purposes as well. Dan Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing Brian In my past life working for a module manufacturer, we used Dow Corning PV 804 silicone sealant. It comes in black and white flavors, usually not found off the shelf at Home Depo. I believe it is the standard used by most module manufacturers and the only silicon sealant that meets UL746 Polymeric materials for electrical applications (Insulating tabs electrically). We experimented with many types with similar results, but when UL listing a module you can only use UL listed components (or you get to pay to perform those tests on that material too!). The price of PV 804 reflects the UL listing. You would need to ask a chemist at Dow Corning if it has a different composition than the common off the shelf varieties. It is great stuff, sticks to everything (especially opposite colored pants!) and moves well between two materials that may expand and contract at different rates with varying temperatures, like a module is often exposed to. Bill On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Brian Teitelbaum bteitelb...@aeesolar.com wrote: I like Blair’s idea, but I’ve always used a silicone sealant that doesn’t use acetic acid as the curing agent. Dow #739 is one type, but any silicone sealant that is rated as food-grade, or for aquariums, should work fine. The 739 is a “moisture-cure”, 100% silicone, which uses moisture present in the air as the curing agent. I was told many years ago that this is the stuff that is used by module manufacturers to attach and seal module junction boxes and the exit point in the laminate where the tabs come out. It would be great if a module rep could confirm this with us. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:49 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing I have a customer who just put a rip in the (tedlar?) on the back of a Solar World 175 watt panel. For some reason he thought that he needed to move the leg to a different hole on his RGM mount instead of just collapsing it. What’s the best way to seal it back up? There is no other internal damage that is noticeable its about 1.5” long and ½” at the widest end. My first thought is to use silicone caulk, but I thought I would pick the collective brain, so to speak. Thanks, Bob Ellison ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing
I've always used the mentioned much easier to find RTV Silcone and have it sun exposed for over 10 years and it's doing great, looks like day one. -jeff o From the Solar, Wind and Hydro powered office of Jeff Oldham/Regenerative SOLutions Get Free Email with Video Mail Video Chat! http://www.juno.com/freeemail?refcd=JUTAGOUT1FREM0210 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing
I have a customer who just put a rip in the (tedlar?) on the back of a Solar World 175 watt panel. For some reason he thought that he needed to move the leg to a different hole on his RGM mount instead of just collapsing it. Whats the best way to seal it back up? There is no other internal damage that is noticeable its about 1.5 long and ½ at the widest end. My first thought is to use silicone caulk, but I thought I would pick the collective brain, so to speak. Thanks, Bob Ellison ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing
I use a heat gun to remove moisture smooth out the rip then I've used some bitchathane w/ foil tape over that. I am not sure about the possible corrosive effects of the silicone during curing. -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of bob Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:49 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing I have a customer who just put a rip in the (tedlar?) on the back of a Solar World 175 watt panel. For some reason he thought that he needed to move the leg to a different hole on his RGM mount instead of just collapsing it. Whats the best way to seal it back up? There is no other internal damage that is noticeable its about 1.5 long and ½ at the widest end. My first thought is to use silicone caulk, but I thought I would pick the collective brain, so to speak. Thanks, Bob Ellison ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing
I like Blair's idea, but I've always used a silicone sealant that doesn't use acetic acid as the curing agent. Dow #739 is one type, but any silicone sealant that is rated as food-grade, or for aquariums, should work fine. The 739 is a moisture-cure, 100% silicone, which uses moisture present in the air as the curing agent. I was told many years ago that this is the stuff that is used by module manufacturers to attach and seal module junction boxes and the exit point in the laminate where the tabs come out. It would be great if a module rep could confirm this with us. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Blair May Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:09 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing I use a heat gun to remove moisture smooth out the rip then I've used some bitchathane w/ foil tape over that. I am not sure about the possible corrosive effects of the silicone during curing. -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of bob Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:49 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing I have a customer who just put a rip in the (tedlar?) on the back of a Solar World 175 watt panel. For some reason he thought that he needed to move the leg to a different hole on his RGM mount instead of just collapsing it. What's the best way to seal it back up? There is no other internal damage that is noticeable its about 1.5 long and ½ at the widest end. My first thought is to use silicone caulk, but I thought I would pick the collective brain, so to speak. Thanks, Bob Ellison ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing
Brian and all... I have some of the PV-specific sealant in my office. I'll confirm the manufacturer and part number when I go in tomorrow... Some sealants I've used over the decades to repair PV seal initially, but don't stay sealed permanently to the PV backsheet. It takes a few years to become unglued. By then .. moisture has entered and damaged the PV. The sealant at my office goes on .. and stays on. Watch this space. Dan --- On Tue, 5/25/10, Brian Teitelbaum bteitelb...@aeesolar.com wrote: From: Brian Teitelbaum bteitelb...@aeesolar.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Tuesday, May 25, 2010, 6:51 PM I like Blair’s idea, but I’ve always used a silicone sealant that doesn’t use acetic acid as the curing agent. Dow #739 is one type, but any silicone sealant that is rated as food-grade, or for aquariums, should work fine. The 739 is a “moisture-cure”, 100% silicone, which uses moisture present in the air as the curing agent. I was told many years ago that this is the stuff that is used by module manufacturers to attach and seal module junction boxes and the exit point in the laminate where the tabs come out. It would be great if a module rep could confirm this with us. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing
Brian In my past life working for a module manufacturer, we used Dow Corning PV 804 silicone sealant. It comes in black and white flavors, usually not found off the shelf at Home Depo. I believe it is the standard used by most module manufacturers and the only silicon sealant that meets UL746 Polymeric materials for electrical applications (Insulating tabs electrically). We experimented with many types with similar results, but when UL listing a module you can only use UL listed components (or you get to pay to perform those tests on that material too!). The price of PV 804 reflects the UL listing. You would need to ask a chemist at Dow Corning if it has a different composition than the common off the shelf varieties. It is great stuff, sticks to everything (especially opposite colored pants!) and moves well between two materials that may expand and contract at different rates with varying temperatures, like a module is often exposed to. Bill On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Brian Teitelbaum bteitelb...@aeesolar.comwrote: I like Blair’s idea, but I’ve always used a silicone sealant that doesn’t use acetic acid as the curing agent. Dow #739 is one type, but any silicone sealant that is rated as food-grade, or for aquariums, should work fine. The 739 is a “moisture-cure”, 100% silicone, which uses moisture present in the air as the curing agent. I was told many years ago that this is the stuff that is used by module manufacturers to attach and seal module junction boxes and the exit point in the laminate where the tabs come out. It would be great if a module rep could confirm this with us. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Blair May *Sent:* Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:09 AM *To:* 'RE-wrenches' *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing I use a heat gun to remove moisture smooth out the rip then I've used some bitchathane w/ foil tape over that. I am not sure about the possible corrosive effects of the silicone during curing. -Original Message- *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *bob *Sent:* Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:49 AM *To:* 'RE-wrenches' *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing I have a customer who just put a rip in the (tedlar?) on the back of a Solar World 175 watt panel. For some reason he thought that he needed to move the leg to a different hole on his RGM mount instead of just collapsing it. What’s the best way to seal it back up? There is no other internal damage that is noticeable its about 1.5” long and ½” at the widest end. My first thought is to use silicone caulk, but I thought I would pick the collective brain, so to speak. Thanks, Bob Ellison ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Bill Hoffer PE Sunergy Engineering Services PLLC 2504 Columbia Ave NW East Wenatchee WA 98802-3941 suneng...@gmail.com (509)470-7762 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing
MessageBrian is correct. 739 is a reliable sealant. Some people put acid-free, clear, insulating tape on the tear after cleaning (clean, dry or lightly damp cotton cloth) and drying (heat gun on low setting or hair dryer) the area and before applying the silicone. The tape is optional. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Brian Teitelbaum To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing I like Blair's idea, but I've always used a silicone sealant that doesn't use acetic acid as the curing agent. Dow #739 is one type, but any silicone sealant that is rated as food-grade, or for aquariums, should work fine. The 739 is a moisture-cure, 100% silicone, which uses moisture present in the air as the curing agent. I was told many years ago that this is the stuff that is used by module manufacturers to attach and seal module junction boxes and the exit point in the laminate where the tabs come out. It would be great if a module rep could confirm this with us. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Blair May Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:09 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing I use a heat gun to remove moisture smooth out the rip then I've used some bitchathane w/ foil tape over that. I am not sure about the possible corrosive effects of the silicone during curing. -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of bob Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:49 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing I have a customer who just put a rip in the (tedlar?) on the back of a Solar World 175 watt panel. For some reason he thought that he needed to move the leg to a different hole on his RGM mount instead of just collapsing it. What's the best way to seal it back up? There is no other internal damage that is noticeable its about 1.5 long and ½ at the widest end. My first thought is to use silicone caulk, but I thought I would pick the collective brain, so to speak. Thanks, Bob Ellison -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing
MessageYou can also use GE Silicone RTV-108 sold by Grainger. - Original Message - From: Joel Davidson To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing Brian is correct. 739 is a reliable sealant. Some people put acid-free, clear, insulating tape on the tear after cleaning (clean, dry or lightly damp cotton cloth) and drying (heat gun on low setting or hair dryer) the area and before applying the silicone. The tape is optional. Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: Brian Teitelbaum To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:51 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing I like Blair's idea, but I've always used a silicone sealant that doesn't use acetic acid as the curing agent. Dow #739 is one type, but any silicone sealant that is rated as food-grade, or for aquariums, should work fine. The 739 is a moisture-cure, 100% silicone, which uses moisture present in the air as the curing agent. I was told many years ago that this is the stuff that is used by module manufacturers to attach and seal module junction boxes and the exit point in the laminate where the tabs come out. It would be great if a module rep could confirm this with us. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Blair May Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:09 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing I use a heat gun to remove moisture smooth out the rip then I've used some bitchathane w/ foil tape over that. I am not sure about the possible corrosive effects of the silicone during curing. -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of bob Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2010 5:49 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rip in panel backing I have a customer who just put a rip in the (tedlar?) on the back of a Solar World 175 watt panel. For some reason he thought that he needed to move the leg to a different hole on his RGM mount instead of just collapsing it. What's the best way to seal it back up? There is no other internal damage that is noticeable its about 1.5 long and ½ at the widest end. My first thought is to use silicone caulk, but I thought I would pick the collective brain, so to speak. Thanks, Bob Ellison ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
