Re: [RE-wrenches] crumbling ballast blocks

[Mike Kocsmiersky]

I recommend the hydraulically pressed ballast block over the non hydraulically 
pressed kind.

 

From: cwarfel [mailto:cwar...@entech-engineering.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 2, 2018 1:08 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] crumbling ballast blocks

 

I am not trying to prolong this thread, but I do want to say that there should 
be an inspection of the blocks in freeze/thaw areas.  We started an inspection 
program of our systems or systems in the area and although we don't install 
ballasted systems, we found enough other things to address. On my own 8 year 
old system zip tie failure was over 50%.  It opened my eyes to the need to do 
these inspections, and spec better materials at the start.  

I remember the survey in Wisconsin regarding the inspecting of fairly old solar 
thermal systems.  All the participants really seemed to love their systems, but 
I think over 3/4 of them were not working. 

 

On 7/1/2018 8:02 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:

Kirt, Chris, Wrenches

We have not had any issues other then one or two in Hawaii or California, it 
might be the location, concrete blocks sitting in the weather all exposed to 
rain from on all sides and then potential freezing conditions will cause 
failure of the blocks, the same issue pools will get if there are tiles around 
the edge when they pop off in freezing conditions but thats just me>

Jerry

NABCEP Installer and PVI

 

 

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Kirk Herander  wrote:

All,

I have a 6 year old ballasted roof system in which about 50% of the solid cap 
blocks(16”L x 8”w x 4”D) are cracked and crumbing, some are close to rubble. I 
assume it was a bad batch, but has anyone seen this before? What might be the 
preventive remedy in the future? A coating of some sort?

 

Kirk Herander

Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC 

Celebrating our 27th Anniversary 1991-2018

www.vermontsolarnow.com

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEPTM  2003 Inaugural Certificant

VT RE Incentive Program Partner

802.863.1202

 

 

 


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-- 

 

 Christopher Warfel, PE
   ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
   (401)466-8978

 
 <http://entech-engineering.com> EEI logo

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Re: [RE-wrenches] crumbling ballast blocks

[cwarfel]

Iam not trying to prolong this thread,but I do want to say that there 
should be an inspectionof the blocks in freeze/thaw areas. We started an 
inspection program of our systems or systems in the area and although we 
don't install ballasted systems, we found enough other things to 
address. On my own 8 year old system zip tie failure was over 50%. It 
opened my eyes to the need to do these inspections, and spec better 
materials at the start.


I remember the survey in Wisconsin regarding the inspecting of fairly 
old solar thermal systems. All the participants really seemed to love 
their systems, but I think over 3/4 of them were not working.



On 7/1/2018 8:02 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:

Kirt, Chris, Wrenches
We have not had any issues other then one or two in Hawaii or 
California, it might be the location, concrete blocks sitting in the 
weather all exposed to rain from on all sides and then potential 
freezing conditions will cause failure of the blocks, the same issue 
pools will get if there are tiles around the edge when they pop off in 
freezing conditions but thats just me>

Jerry
NABCEP Installer and PVI


On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Kirk Herander > wrote:


All,

I have a 6 year old ballasted roof system in which about 50% of
the solid cap blocks(16”L x 8”w x 4”D) are cracked and crumbing,
some are close to rubble. I assume it was a bad batch, but has
anyone seen this before? What might be the preventive remedy in
the future? A coating of some sort?

*Kirk Herander*

*Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC *

*/Celebrating our 27^th Anniversary 1991-2018/*

*www.vermontsolarnow.com *

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEP^TM 2003 Inaugural Certificant

VT RE Incentive Program Partner

802.863.1202


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--

 Christopher Warfel, PE
   ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
   (401)466-8978

EEI logo 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] crumbling ballast blocks

[Jerry Shafer]

Kirt, Chris, Wrenches
We have not had any issues other then one or two in Hawaii or California,
it might be the location, concrete blocks sitting in the weather all
exposed to rain from on all sides and then potential freezing conditions
will cause failure of the blocks, the same issue pools will get if there
are tiles around the edge when they pop off in freezing conditions but
thats just me>
Jerry
NABCEP Installer and PVI


On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Kirk Herander  wrote:

> All,
>
> I have a 6 year old ballasted roof system in which about 50% of the solid
> cap blocks(16”L x 8”w x 4”D) are cracked and crumbing, some are close to
> rubble. I assume it was a bad batch, but has anyone seen this before? What
> might be the preventive remedy in the future? A coating of some sort?
>
>
>
> *Kirk Herander*
>
> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC *
>
> *Celebrating our 27th Anniversary 1991-2018*
>
> *www.vermontsolarnow.com *
>
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>
> NABCEPTM  2003 Inaugural Certificant
>
> VT RE Incentive Program Partner
>
> 802.863.1202
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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> Change listserver email address & settings:
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Re: [RE-wrenches] crumbling ballast blocks

[Kirk Herander]

Thanks. FYI - I’ve since found this on the Ironridge site: 
http://files.ironridge.com/ballastedmounting/IronRidge_BallastedRoofMount_ballastSupplierList.pdf
Recommendation is 3000 psi min,
And be freeze/thaw resistant. 

Kirk Herander


> On Jun 30, 2018, at 10:10 AM, "glenn.b...@glbcc.com"  
> wrote:
> 
> I inspected a number of school rooftop systems for the state of NY about 6 
> years ago. Many had ballast blocks that were little more than dirt piles.
> Most blocks that you can pick up at big box stores are inadequate for this 
> duty, and Sunpower recognized this about 10 years ago when they published a 
> specification for blocks used with their systems.
> I'd have to dig through my archives to locate it, and am on my phone now, so 
> dont have it handy, but seem to remember a high psi mix being required.
> 
> So yes, I have seen it before, and have insured any system we installed used 
> blocks with a similar standard. We rarely do that kind of job anymore, so 
> dont have the info quick at hand.
> 
> Glenn
> 
> Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typos.
> 
> -- Original message--
> From: Kirk Herander
> Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2018 9:10 AM
> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org;
> Cc:
> Subject:[RE-wrenches] crumbling ballast blocks
> 
> All,
> 
> I have a 6 year old ballasted roof system in which about 50% of the solid cap 
> blocks(16”L x 8”w x 4”D) are cracked and crumbing, some are close to rubble. 
> I assume it was a bad batch, but has anyone seen this before? What might be 
> the preventive remedy in the future? A coating of some sort?
> 
>  
> 
> Kirk Herander
> 
> Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC
> 
> Celebrating our 27th Anniversary 1991-2018
> 
> www.vermontsolarnow.com
> 
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
> 
> NABCEPTM  2003 Inaugural Certificant
> 
> VT RE Incentive Program Partner
> 
> 802.863.1202
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] crumbling ballast blocks

[cwarfel]

Back to the original post. A commercial system doesn't mean they used 
paving blocks.  I have seen many that did not. Fly ash is also a product 
of coal combustion that can be used to make a stronger concrete, though 
it won't necessarily help in this case, as it is lighter.



On 6/30/2018 7:05 PM, Ken Schaal wrote:

Regular cement blocks absorb water, freeze thaw cycle destroys them.

Paving blocks are made with silica fume, denser than cement,dont 
absorb water, don't suffer freeze thaw damage. They are designed for 
 walkways and driveways.

There are cement looking pavers , 12x12 x 2" ,also made with fume.
Any block plant should be able to make balast blocks to the needed 
specs. Silica fume is a waste product of coal combustion

..ie cheap, but effective.
Ken schaal

On Jun 30, 2018 6:29 PM, "cwarfel" > wrote:


I am pretty sure it is the freeze-thaw cycle that the blocks are
exposed to. I have inspected hundreds of system in the Northeast
and this is a recurringproblem. It has to be part of the
maintenance protocols or there will be insufficient weight to
resist thewind uplift forces.  Chris


On 6/30/2018 6:17 PM, Chris Schaefer wrote:

Kirk,

Had the same thing happen to me on a commercial ballasted system
installed back in 2004. Had to be moved around to allow
installation of a new roof system. Replaced all the ballast in
2017. I'm located in Western NY, thus the same weather you see.
The blocks were on a stainless steel pan of which the array was
attached to. I've plenty of ideas as to why they broke down but
no real evidence. I expect it to happen again. Does make me
wonder about the new ballast systems that still call out for the
blocks as ballast. Perhaps poly sand bags?

Christopher

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Kirk Herander
mailto:vtso...@icloud.com>> wrote:

All,

I have a 6 year old ballasted roof system in which about 50%
of the solid cap blocks(16”L x 8”w x 4”D) are cracked and
crumbing, some are close to rubble. I assume it was a bad
batch, but has anyone seen this before? What might be the
preventive remedy in the future? A coating of some sort?

*Kirk Herander*

*Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC *

*/Celebrating our 27^th Anniversary 1991-2018/*

*www.vermontsolarnow.com *

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEP^TM 2003 Inaugural Certificant

VT RE Incentive Program Partner

802.863.1202


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-- 


Chris Schaefer’s

/Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
//5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
//www.solarandwindfx.com  ~
E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com /

/
/

Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once
said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from
those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."



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 Christopher Warfel, PE
   ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
   (401)466-8978

EEI logo 

_

Re: [RE-wrenches] crumbling ballast blocks

[Ken Schaal]

Regular cement blocks absorb water, freeze thaw cycle destroys them.

Paving blocks are made with silica fume, denser than cement,dont absorb
water, don't suffer freeze thaw damage. They are designed for  walkways and
driveways.
There are cement looking pavers , 12x12 x 2" ,also made with fume.
Any block plant should be able to make balast blocks to the needed specs.
Silica fume is a waste product of coal combustion
..ie cheap, but effective.
Ken schaal

On Jun 30, 2018 6:29 PM, "cwarfel"  wrote:

I am pretty sure it is the freeze-thaw cycle that the blocks are exposed
to. I have inspected hundreds of system in the Northeast and this is a
recurring problem. It has to be part of the maintenance protocols or there
will be insufficient weight to resist the wind uplift forces.  Chris

On 6/30/2018 6:17 PM, Chris Schaefer wrote:

Kirk,

Had the same thing happen to me on a commercial ballasted system installed
back in 2004. Had to be moved around to allow installation of a new roof
system. Replaced all the ballast in 2017. I'm located in Western NY, thus
the same weather you see. The blocks were on a stainless steel pan of which
the array was attached to. I've plenty of ideas as to why they broke down
but no real evidence. I expect it to happen again. Does make me wonder
about the new ballast systems that still call out for the blocks as
ballast. Perhaps poly sand bags?

Christopher

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Kirk Herander  wrote:

> All,
>
> I have a 6 year old ballasted roof system in which about 50% of the solid
> cap blocks(16”L x 8”w x 4”D) are cracked and crumbing, some are close to
> rubble. I assume it was a bad batch, but has anyone seen this before? What
> might be the preventive remedy in the future? A coating of some sort?
>
>
>
> *Kirk Herander*
>
> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC *
>
> *Celebrating our 27th Anniversary 1991-2018*
>
> *www.vermontsolarnow.com *
>
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>
> NABCEPTM  2003 Inaugural Certificant
>
> VT RE Incentive Program Partner
>
> 802.863.1202
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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-- 

Chris Schaefer’s


*Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870  *
*5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 **www.solarandwindfx.com
 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
*


Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said,
"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."


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 Christopher Warfel, PE
   ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
   (401)466-8978

[image: EEI logo] 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] crumbling ballast blocks

[cwarfel]

I am pretty sure it is the freeze-thaw cycle that the blocks are exposed 
to. I have inspected hundreds of system in the Northeast and this is a 
recurringproblem. It has to be part of the maintenance protocols or 
there will be insufficient weight to resist thewind uplift forces.  Chris



On 6/30/2018 6:17 PM, Chris Schaefer wrote:

Kirk,

Had the same thing happen to me on a commercial ballasted system 
installed back in 2004. Had to be moved around to allow installation 
of a new roof system. Replaced all the ballast in 2017. I'm located in 
Western NY, thus the same weather you see. The blocks were on a 
stainless steel pan of which the array was attached to. I've plenty of 
ideas as to why they broke down but no real evidence. I expect it to 
happen again. Does make me wonder about the new ballast systems that 
still call out for the blocks as ballast. Perhaps poly sand bags?


Christopher

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Kirk Herander > wrote:


All,

I have a 6 year old ballasted roof system in which about 50% of
the solid cap blocks(16”L x 8”w x 4”D) are cracked and crumbing,
some are close to rubble. I assume it was a bad batch, but has
anyone seen this before? What might be the preventive remedy in
the future? A coating of some sort?

*Kirk Herander*

*Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC *

*/Celebrating our 27^th Anniversary 1991-2018/*

*www.vermontsolarnow.com *

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEP^TM 2003 Inaugural Certificant

VT RE Incentive Program Partner

802.863.1202


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--

Chris Schaefer’s

/Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
//5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
//www.solarandwindfx.com  ~ E-mail: 
ch...@solarandwindfx.com /


/
/

Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, 
"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are 
willing to work and give to those who would not."




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 Christopher Warfel, PE
   ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
   (401)466-8978

EEI logo 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] crumbling ballast blocks

[Chris Schaefer]

Kirk,

Had the same thing happen to me on a commercial ballasted system installed
back in 2004. Had to be moved around to allow installation of a new roof
system. Replaced all the ballast in 2017. I'm located in Western NY, thus
the same weather you see. The blocks were on a stainless steel pan of which
the array was attached to. I've plenty of ideas as to why they broke down
but no real evidence. I expect it to happen again. Does make me wonder
about the new ballast systems that still call out for the blocks as
ballast. Perhaps poly sand bags?

Christopher

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Kirk Herander  wrote:

> All,
>
> I have a 6 year old ballasted roof system in which about 50% of the solid
> cap blocks(16”L x 8”w x 4”D) are cracked and crumbing, some are close to
> rubble. I assume it was a bad batch, but has anyone seen this before? What
> might be the preventive remedy in the future? A coating of some sort?
>
>
>
> *Kirk Herander*
>
> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC *
>
> *Celebrating our 27th Anniversary 1991-2018*
>
> *www.vermontsolarnow.com *
>
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>
> NABCEPTM  2003 Inaugural Certificant
>
> VT RE Incentive Program Partner
>
> 802.863.1202
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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[RE-wrenches] crumbling ballast blocks

[Kirk Herander]

All,

I have a 6 year old ballasted roof system in which about 50% of the solid
cap blocks(16"L x 8"w x 4"D) are cracked and crumbing, some are close to
rubble. I assume it was a bad batch, but has anyone seen this before? What
might be the preventive remedy in the future? A coating of some sort?

 

Kirk Herander

Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC 

Celebrating our 27th Anniversary 1991-2018

www.vermontsolarnow.com

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEPTM  2003 Inaugural Certificant

VT RE Incentive Program Partner

802.863.1202

 

 

 

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