[RE-wrenches] housekeeping
Good morning gang. I sure do feel privileged to be in on these excellent discussions you all have. Anyway, a few things to pay attention to. If you have any questions, please contact me off list. 1. You must use the address that you find in the From: or Reply-To: headers for your message to be accepted by the list. In each incoming message there are three headers that have an address that is similar to the list address. They are Return-Path:, Sender:, and Errors-To: and they all append "-bounces" to the address. It is for internal use only, and if you send a message to that address, it will not make it to the list. 2. You must send mail FROM the address that is subscribed to the list. So, if you have more than one address, be sure to use the one that is subscribed as your From address. 3. Try to trim back the quoting on your messages to decrease message size and increase convenience. Just try to quote the most recent parts and/or the parts that you are responding to. 4. When we moved the list from Topica last summer, I enabled the ability to have html and file attachments as an experiment. It seems to be OK, and some of you like it so I probably will not change back. But please only include file attachments if you think a lot of Wrenches will appreciate the file being handed to them. If you think only a few might like the file, it is better to give list members a choice by putting the file somewhere on the internet and merely sending the URL and description to the list. Yes, even in this day and age of high bandwidth, we actually have some members that are still on painfully slow dialup and semi-slow satellite. Some of the messages with layers of quoting can be come quite colorful, can't they? I hope this drab B&W message has not been too boring. Peace. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Housekeeping
If you have any concerns or comments about this, please respond to me OFF LIST. Just some reminders, folks. I've been wanting to send some of these for awhile. Now seemed a good time because there have been no messages for several days. 1. You MUST use the email address that is subscribed to the list, or else you will get a rejection from the list server. And all emails must be sent to the list server address of re-wrenches@[etc.]. 2. Please chop down lengthy quoting when responding to posts. We've gotten a couple of complaints about this recently. Unless we do that, the messages just keep getting longer and longer. 3. If you are a manufacturer's representative, please only respond to posts about YOUR product, not others' products. It is OK to respond to general questions in areas where you are knowledgeable, but please do not promote your own products while doing so. 4. Do not post any leads, job possibilities, or help wanted to the list. Lots of other places for those. 5. If you are going on vacation or such, please put your Wrench list membership on hold until you get back. List members shouldn't be getting your "out of town" notification emails. 6. A reminder to not post off topic items. Here is my standard blurb about that: a. Don't post jokes, thanks, news items, events, politics, marketing, or anything else that is off-topic. b. Don't respond on-list to others' off topic posts. c. Don't post items that are available for sale, either from you or from others. c2. From time to time people post items that they need but are having problems locating (like an older model PV module to replace a broken one), but these requests should be responded to off-list. And these requests should state within them, something like "if you have one, please contact me off list." d. If you have a message that is intended for individuals that are on the list, don't send it to the whole list -- just send it to the individuals. Thanks, Wrenches. You folks are GREAT! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Housekeeping
Hi gang. Please send any response or comments to me OFF LIST. Please read carefully. 1. Based on member feedback (or lack thereof), I have increased the allowed message size to 1 MB. That does not mean you should start peppering everyone's hard disks with larger files. Every time you send a file, literally hundreds of members receive it. So please be judicious about what you send -- that said, the bandwidth is there if you need it. Oh yeah, also continue to edit out extraneous quoting and footers from replies before sending. It just makes things cleaner. 2. A reminder that the default for our list server is that replying to a message goes to everyone on the list. In those cases where your reply is appropriate to send only to the person you are replying to, you need to grab their email address and replace the list address in the To: field. 3. Several Wrenches have been phished lately, so I offer this word of caution. If you receive an email or some other communication that suggests you need to log in to your email account and it offers a link to do so, DO NOT DO IT. Chances are it is a link not to your email host, but to a fake login page, for somebody who will then harvest your email address and password, and use it to send spam. Be SURE that you are on your email host's (like Yahoo, Google Mail, AOL, etc.) legitimate web site before using your password. If you have any doubts, feel free to ask me for help. Here is an example of what you might see, when being phished. Note that there might just be text like "Please log in now" and a graphic like your email host's, but the code underneath it is where the deviousness comes in. If you cannot see the underlying code in your email program, if you click it it will be visible in the URL field of the browser window that opens. Examples: Real Yahoo email login (there can be variations of this): http://mail.yahoo.com Fake Yahoo email login example: http://mail.yahoo.com.urscrewed.ru If you ever think you may have been phished, immediately go to your real email login and change your password. For more info about phishing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phishing ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] housekeeping
4. When we moved the list from Topica last summer, I enabled the ability to have html and file attachments as an experiment. It seems to be OK, and some of you like it so I probably will not change back. But please only include file attachments if you think a lot of Wrenches will appreciate the file being handed to them. If you think only a few might like the file, it is better to give list members a choice by putting the file somewhere on the internet and merely sending the URL and description to the list. Yes, even in this day and age of high bandwidth, we actually have some members that are still on painfully slow dialup and semi-slow satellite. Yes, with a download speed of around 2kB large attachments are a real issue. No, it is not that I am too stingy to get broadband, the service just does not make it to my place, even the sattelite! Even my phone line is multiplexed. Bruce Geddes PowerOn ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Housekeeping stuff
Wrenches. This gives me the opportunity to make two points. If you have any questions or concerns: contact me off list off list off list. 1. There is so much funky stuff out there (these inverters, ebooks on how to power your home with a homemade wind generator or PV module for $200, vertical axis yard art, H2 gasoline eliminators, etc.) that I really would like to keep it off the list and keep the discussions to real Wrench-related stuff. Remember, we do have the RE-Bitching list to complain about **anything** we want, and many of you have let me know it is of high importance to keep the signal to noise ratio at the most useful level. 2. After compiling the many answers I received about whether or not pricing should be discussed in this public forum, there was nothing even close to consensus. So as for pricing, here's the deal. If somebody takes to mentioning prices, either inadvertently or because they feel it is good for the list, please do not respond on list with "that bites" or "I don't like it" or "go dude" or any other encouragement, discouragement, or pricing discussion. Rather, please start a private conversation off list with the person, and then respectfully try to convince each other as to the merits of your opinions. CC me if you'd like, but let's consider discussions about whether pricing should be on the list to be off-topic for the list. 3. (Really, I thought it was only going to be two.) If you post to the list looking for a particular piece of equipment not otherwise available, please ask that folks respond to you off list, and then those of you responding please be sure respect that. Thanks, Wrenches. You folks are awesome! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Housekeeping stuff
Regarding discussing pricing on this publicly viewed list: It's just unprofessional. I never met a wholesaler or manufacturer that wanted me to tell the public the wholesale price I was paying for their products. Also, telling the public your cost can only do you and your business harm. Joe Public will figure - "why should I pay X% more for this product?" - without considering that a good dealer/installer pays for licensing, liability insurance, workers comp, good wages to get and keep good employees, the cost of tuition, transportation, lodging and tuition for employees, etc. Joe Public does not know the difference between gross profit and net profit, and NEVER will. As small business persons we are all at a disadvantage to the big box stores who inevitably will sell everything. I think by allowing prices to be discussed publicly pm this list, we're shooting ourselves in the foot - making our own long term survival harder. It seems like this all should be common knowledge to any professional in any retail business. Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Housekeeping stuff
If you have any questions about this post, please respond to me off list, not to the whole group. I have been getting a rash of folks wanting to join in the last few weeks. Some have told me they heard about the list from Wrenches who do workshops. Please, when you tell folks about this list, be sure to tell them it is specifically for working professional RE installers. FYI, I do not allow casual installers, like "sure, I'm an installer, I helped my neighbor put up a system earlier this year." I also do not allow fresh businesses to have posting access to the list, unless they have lots of experience or (per the list's consensus) they are fully NABCEP certified. For those that do not (yet) qualify, I always remind them that they have access to the archives. I question folks that are not obviously working pros, so I catch the ones that are not qualified yet. But it would be helpful to me if those of you that are announcing the list's existence in workshops, seminars, etc.; to be sure to let folks know that they need to be working pros with at least a some real experience before they can qualify for the list. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Housekeeping
thank you for allowing this. it is very useful for trying to find old, matching modules. todd c2. From time to time people post items that they need but are having problems locating (like an older model PV module to replace a broken one), but these requests should be responded to off-list. And these requests should state within them, something like "if you have one, please contact me off list." On Friday, September 14, 2012 11:42am, "Michael Welch" said: > If you have any concerns or comments about this, please respond to me OFF > LIST. > > Just some reminders, folks. I've been wanting to send some of these for > awhile. > Now seemed a good time because there have been no messages for several days. > > 1. You MUST use the email address that is subscribed to the list, or else you > will > get a rejection from the list server. And all emails must be sent to the list > server address of re-wrenches@[etc.]. > > 2. Please chop down lengthy quoting when responding to posts. We've gotten a > couple of complaints about this recently. Unless we do that, the messages just > keep getting longer and longer. > > 3. If you are a manufacturer's representative, please only respond to posts > about > YOUR product, not others' products. It is OK to respond to general questions > in > areas where you are knowledgeable, but please do not promote your own products > while doing so. > > 4. Do not post any leads, job possibilities, or help wanted to the list. Lots > of > other places for those. > > 5. If you are going on vacation or such, please put your Wrench list > membership on > hold until you get back. List members shouldn't be getting your "out of town" > notification emails. > > 6. A reminder to not post off topic items. Here is my standard blurb about > that: > a. Don't post jokes, thanks, news items, events, politics, marketing, or > anything > else that is off-topic. > > b. Don't respond on-list to others' off topic posts. > > c. Don't post items that are available for sale, either from you or from > others. > > c2. From time to time people post items that they need but are having problems > locating (like an older model PV module to replace a broken one), but these > requests should be responded to off-list. And these requests should state > within > them, something like "if you have one, please contact me off list." > > d. If you have a message that is intended for individuals that are on the > list, > don't send it to the whole list -- just send it to the individuals. > > Thanks, Wrenches. You folks are GREAT! > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Housekeeping: product needs
Hi gang. If you have a comments on this post, please contact me off list. Some time ago we decided we should allow requests for hard to find products and replacement products on the list. This has me a bit worried, specially as systems become older and products damaged by weather etc. need to be replaced; and specially as the number of Wrench List members creeps steadily higher. There has been a minor flow of these requests lately, when in the past we have practically had none. At least for now, let's continue allowing these requests, because I cannot think of another or better means of finding these things when you need them. But in order to keep this to a dull roar, please follow these guidelines: 1. First, please exhaust the methods you can think of for finding the products through normal channels, like your distributors or the former manufacturers. 2. Please always ask Wrenches to contact you off-list with their responses. 3. When responding, please email the seeker directly and off-list instead of on the list. Thanks much, Wrenches. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Housekeeping stuff
1. There is so much funky stuff out there (these inverters, ebooks on how to power your home with a homemade wind generator or PV module for $200, vertical axis yard art, H2 gasoline eliminators, etc.) that I really would like to keep it off the list and keep the discussions to real Wrench-related stuff. Remember, we do have the RE-Bitching list to complain about **anything** we want, and many of you have let me know it is of high importance to keep the signal to noise ratio at the most useful level. Good. 2. After compiling the many answers I received about whether or not pricing should be discussed in this public forum, there was nothing even close to consensus. So as for pricing, here's the deal. If somebody takes to mentioning prices, either inadvertently or because they feel it is good for the list, please do not respond on list with "that bites" or "I don't like it" or "go dude" or any other encouragement, discouragement, or pricing discussion. Rather, please start a private conversation off list with the person, and then respectfully try to convince each other as to the merits of your opinions. CC me if you'd like, but let's consider discussions about whether pricing should be on the list to be off-topic for the list. OK. 3. (Really, I thought it was only going to be two.) If you post to the list looking for a particular piece of equipment not otherwise available, please ask that folks respond to you off list, and then those of you responding please be sure respect that. I did. Told him I had a $1500 SW4024. Off. The. List. Thanks, Wrenches. You folks are awesome! OK, dude, whatever. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Housekeeping stuff
Greg, etal Materials aside, this is why I have be advocating to follow your thoughts a bit further. Knowing that HD (or equal) will eventually sell all (or most) of the products we offer within the next 5 years, why not focus on making profit dollars on labor? It is interesting to me that we as an industry, will grouse about pricing of materials as a way to make extra money (or make it less transparent to the customer), but dismiss the idea of charging more for labor, as the "going rate trap", we set for ourselves. Demystify this for the consumer. If they want to see you around in the future to service their equipment you just installed, there is a genuine connection to them and they don't want to be left behind for service or repairing the equipment. Why not charge the right price for labor, as you evaluated we will have less margins contributing from materials. Start now and avoid the margin compression later. I always wonder how many wrenches are prepared for anything other that the next install- no offense- what I am referring to is retirement and paying our people well to name a few. How about sending our children to better schools and soccer camp? How about taking care of our significant others for all of their dedication and support all of the years watching us have expensive, time consuming "hobbies", like installing solar. I'm not suggesting stopping the pro bono work, but look to the field we have chosen and be "in business". Profit is not a dirty word, but being out of business or being on the "system" for support could fair worse without any planning. There is also the impending growth in our field, which will mean more competition, so lets take the medicine now and get more folks educated. The collective public that is not in business, has not had the training in what it costs to keep the lights on every day or create a budget. It is patently clear to me, that we need this training, equally as much as understanding 690 or 310.16 if we are to prosper and not just thrive. This is evident in a CNN story last night- http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/wayoflife/05/06/credit.cards/index.html Clearly there is a gap and consumption outstrips the rational mind and it appears contagious. Burying our calculators in the sand will do little for the people we are responsible for. Attached is a simple way to look at what you are currently doing and determine if you need to make adjustments. Sure, you can make $ on materials, but lets suggest for a moment all of our customers will be going to HD to buy the majority of the equipment or the level of transparency on material costs becomes Darwinian. If we are in the sustainability business, can't we also be financially sustainable and make it a tenet for our constituency? If I have picqued your interest, contact me off list. I am, for the record, not suggesting any kind of antitrust price fixing, but deleveraging the misnomers. Keith From: "g...@remotepowerinc.com" To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2009 8:54:07 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Housekeeping stuff Regarding discussing pricing on this publicly viewed list: It's just unprofessional. I never met a wholesaler or manufacturer that wanted me to tell the public the wholesale price I was paying for their products. Also, telling the public your cost can only do you and your business harm. Joe Public will figure - "why should I pay X% more for this product?" - without considering that a good dealer/installer pays for licensing, liability insurance, workers comp, good wages to get and keep good employees, the cost of tuition, transportation, lodging and tuition for employees, etc. Joe Public does not know the difference between gross profit and net profit, and NEVER will. As small business persons we are all at a disadvantage to the big box stores who inevitably will sell everything. I think by allowing prices to be discussed publicly pm this list, we're shooting ourselves in the foot - making our own long term survival harder. It seems like this all should be common knowledge to any professional in any retail business. Greg Egan Remote Power Inc. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org What things really cost-Biz owner- 07MAY09.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: ht
[RE-wrenches] Housekeeping - File sizes and dialup
Hi gang. Please send any response or comments to me OFF LIST. Since we have a fair number of folks on this list who live off-grid, we also had several still stuck with dialup internet access. For them, getting large messages was a hassle. Last year I raised the message size limit to 100K, which is large enough to include viewable jpg graphics of about 75K, along with a reasonable amount of text. About once a week, I end up working with folks who attempt to send messages that are larger than that. But now I would like to get a handle on how many of us still have significant restrictions on data, so please let me know. 1. For folks on dialup, file attachments can be a drag, time-wise. 2. For folks like me, whose home internet access is through cell technology, getting large files can end up being expensive, if their usage exceeds the limits of their phone plans. Of course, there are work-arounds for these things, but for now I would like to hear from Wrench list members who are affected by large messages, to see if I can up the limits. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Housekeeping - File sizes and dialup
Hi again gang. Any questions or responses should go to me directly, off-list. Well, it's been over a week, and I have not heard from any Wrenches that are still on dialup or have very restrictive data allowances. I will give it a bit more time, so please get back to me if you have concerns about increasing permissible message sizes on the list. Michael Welch wrote at 11:17 AM 2/21/2013: >Hi gang. Please send any response or comments to me OFF LIST. > >Since we have a fair number of folks on this list who live off-grid, we also >had several still stuck with dialup internet access. For them, getting large >messages was a hassle. Last year I raised the message size limit to 100K, >which is large enough to include viewable jpg graphics of about 75K, along >with a reasonable amount of text. > >About once a week, I end up working with folks who attempt to send messages >that are larger than that. > >But now I would like to get a handle on how many of us still have significant >restrictions on data, so please let me know. >1. For folks on dialup, file attachments can be a drag, time-wise. >2. For folks like me, whose home internet access is through cell technology, >getting large files can end up being expensive, if their usage exceeds the >limits of their phone plans. > >Of course, there are work-arounds for these things, but for now I would like >to hear from Wrench list members who are affected by large messages, to see if >I can up the limits. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
