Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel
Personally, I wouldn't want marketing people to read the NEC unless all of our customers were reading the NEC, too. The reality is, when talking to customers, a module is called a panel. When talking to you, a module is a module. In customer speak, panel is to module as features are to specifications. Panel is a softer word. I have been known to scold a salesperson for mixing up power and energy, though. J Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of David Brearley Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 7:16 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel It tells me their marketing people have never read the NEC-no big surprise there-and maybe they are new to the PV industry. But the term PV panel is also used so ubiquitously in place of the term PV module-both in common parlance and in the industry-that it's probably going to supersede the terms in the NEC over time. Since the NEC terms were defined when modules were 50W each, one could make the case that a 250W module bears some resemblance to a panel, as originally conceived. One new company that does know the difference is Solyndra. Each cylinder in Solyndra-speak is a module. They refer to the field-installable assembly is a panel. Technically perfect use of the terms. My personal pet peeve is not keeping power and energy straight. We can all distinguish between between miles-per-hour and miles. So how come some people in this industry can't keep kW and kWh straight? That smells fishy to me, especially in technical sales literature. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel
Hi Joel, Interesting applications. I'm not trying to be pedantic but (in the '93 application) did you mean the module was seeing the flame and keeping the _gas valve_ open? Do I understand correctly that it was capable of keeping the electromagnet energized on only pilot flame? Essentially substituting for a thermocouple or thermopile? Not exactly an ideal cold temperature application. TIA, Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 - Original Message - From: Joel Davidson To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:01 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel Cells? Modules? Bell Labs use to call them solar batteries. Call them what you will, but please buy and use them. Nomenclature from micro to macro: Cell Module Panel Sub-array Array Power Field. From Solar Photovoltaic Applications Seminar: Design, Installation and Operation of Small, Stand-Alone Photovoltaic Systems, July 1980, DOE/CS/32522-T1 (with thanks to Jim Fortenberry for his copy when the DOE shut down the PV Division of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in 1984): A PV array is composed of many subarrays, panels, modules, and cells in various series, parallel, star, and delta combinations. Individual cells are wired together and mounted to produce a module. From UL 1703: 2. Glossary 2.13 Module (Flat-Plate) - The smallest environmentally protected, essentially planar assembly of solar cells and ancillary parts, such as interconnects and terminals, intended to generate dc power under unconcentrated sunlight. The structural (load-carrying) member of a module can either be the top layer (superstrate), or the back layer (substrate), in which: a) The superstrate is the transparent material forming the to (light-facing) outer surface of the module. If load-carrying, this constitutes a structural superstrate. b) The substrate is the material forming the back out surface of a module. If load-carrying, this constitutes a structural substrate. 2.15 Panel (Flat-Plate) - A collection of modules mechanically fastened together, wired, and designed to provide a field-installable unit. Cell/Module/Panel factoids: There are such things as non-solar PV cells and modules. In 1983, a UCLA researcher used a silicon solar cell to measure the contractions (beats) of a heart cell. The heart cell was viewed on a television screen that was connected to a microscope. The solar cell was taped to the TV screen. When the cell contracted, the photons emitted by the TV screen changed causing the solar cell to generate current that was then recorded. In 1993, while at Solec International, I had a customer who used a small custom solar module mounted near the combustion chamber of a natural gas heater. The solar module used the photons emitted by the combusted gas to power the gas flow regulator. In 1994, while at Solar Integrated Technologies, I got the first UL listing for a photovoltaic panel (not module). Joel Davidson ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel
Not really wrench talk, but as long as you guys are talking about one of my pet peeves... I think the phrase solar panel is what editors would call a skunked term -- abused and confused so much that it's better to not use it. It's not understood by many audiences in many situations; it's ambiguous in many situations. Solar panel can mean: * PV module * Solar hot water collector * Subarray (by silly NEC definition that almost no one in the real world uses...) * Breaker panel that handles PV * Richard Perez, Windy Dankoff, and Cully Judd sitting up on the stage at MREF I like to use solar-electric module and solar hot water collector, and PV and SHW collector for short. Back to wrenching words, ;-) Ian At 7:51 AM -0800 2/9/11, Joel Davidson wrote: Hi Bill, The module operated at approximately 450 degree F. When the flame became yellow, the PV cell would conduct more and the light power would change the orifice size to get the flame back to blue. There are lots of unusual ways to use cells, modules, and panels. Solar modules used as desks, tables, and conference room tables by several PV contractors. From my office, I can see a nearby office building with vertically mounted solar panels in portrait mode used as screens to hide roof-mounted air conditioners. Not very efficient mounting panels at 34 degrees latitude, but it's always nice to see more PV. Here's an interesting solar module as a piece of art. With Valentine's Day coming up, you might want to give your honey a solar rose. Tell them Joel sentcha. They may give you a discount. See http://www.sunbrothers.com/portfolio/flower.htmhttp://www.sunbrothers.com/portfolio/flower.htm Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: mailto:solar1onl...@charter.netBill Loesch To: mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgRE-wrenches Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 5:02 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel Hi Joel, Interesting applications. I'm not trying to be pedantic but (in the '93 application) did you mean the module was seeing the flame and keeping the _gas valve_ open? Do I understand correctly that it was capable of keeping the electromagnet energized on only pilot flame? Essentially substituting for a thermocouple or thermopile? Not exactly an ideal cold temperature application. TIA, Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094 - Original Message - From: mailto:joel.david...@sbcglobal.netJoel Davidson To: mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgRE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 10:01 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel Cells? Modules? Bell Labs use to call them solar batteries. Call them what you will, but please buy and use them. Nomenclature from micro to macro: Cell Module Panel Sub-array Array Power Field. From Solar Photovoltaic Applications Seminar: Design, Installation and Operation of Small, Stand-Alone Photovoltaic Systems, July 1980, DOE/CS/32522-T1 (with thanks to Jim Fortenberry for his copy when the DOE shut down the PV Division of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in 1984): A PV array is composed of many subarrays, panels, modules, and cells in various series, parallel, star, and delta combinations. Individual cells are wired together and mounted to produce a module. From UL 1703: 2. Glossary 2.13 Module (Flat-Plate) - The smallest environmentally protected, essentially planar assembly of solar cells and ancillary parts, such as interconnects and terminals, intended to generate dc power under unconcentrated sunlight. The structural (load-carrying) member of a module can either be the top layer (superstrate), or the back layer (substrate), in which: a) The superstrate is the transparent material forming the to (light-facing) outer surface of the module. If load-carrying, this constitutes a structural superstrate. b) The substrate is the material forming the back out surface of a module. If load-carrying, this constitutes a structural substrate. 2.15 Panel (Flat-Plate) - A collection of modules mechanically fastened together, wired, and designed to provide a field-installable unit. Cell/Module/Panel factoids: There are such things as non-solar PV cells and modules. In 1983, a UCLA researcher used a silicon solar cell to measure the contractions (beats) of a heart cell. The heart cell was viewed on a television screen that was connected to a microscope. The solar cell was taped to the TV screen. When the cell contracted, the photons emitted by the TV screen changed causing the solar cell to generate current that was then recorded. In 1993, while at Solec International, I had a customer who used a small custom solar module mounted near the combustion chamber of a natural gas heater. The solar module used the photons emitted by the combusted gas to power the gas flow regulator. In 1994, while at Solar Integrated Technologies, I got the first UL listing for a photovoltaic panel (not module). Joel
[RE-wrenches] module / panel
Wrenchers, Which term do you to describe a single framed unit with either a j-box or two wire leads on the back, module or panel? Which term do you believe to be correct and why? My interpretation is that a single framed unit is a module. Any number of modules attached to a single detached 'rack' is a panel, and a group of panels with the same orientation or mounting location/type is an array. If you agree with my interpretation, what are your thoughts on the widespread use of the term 'panel' to describe a module. thanks,benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel
People in and out of the industry misuse the term PV panel all the time. The NEC is pretty clear that the basic building block for a PV system is a module, the complete unit. Assemble some of these together now you have a panel. (This is less common now that we have 250 watt modules and not 50 watt modules.) An array is defined in the NEC as a mechanically integrated unit; I tend to think of an array as all of the modules on site. They added a definition for a subarray in the 2011 NEC; this is an electrical subset of an array. On 2/8/11 4:49 PM, benn kilburn b...@daystarsolar.ca wrote: Wrenchers, Which term do you to describe a single framed unit with either a j-box or two wire leads on the back, module or panel? Which term do you believe to be correct and why? My interpretation is that a single framed unit is a module. Any number of modules attached to a single detached 'rack' is a panel, and a group of panels with the same orientation or mounting location/type is an array. If you agree with my interpretation, what are your thoughts on the widespread use of the term 'panel' to describe a module. thanks, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installer david.brear...@solarprofessional.com Direct: 541.261.6545 Fax: 541.512.0343 Visit our Web site at solarprofessional.com (Sample copy available for download at: solarprofessional.com/sample) ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel
Dave, thanks for the reply.What are your thoughts when you see (in various publications and/or websites) solar PV distributers and even module manufacturers using the term 'panel' to describe a 'module'? benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. benn@daystarsolar.ca780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:02:32 -0600 From: david.brear...@solarprofessional.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel Message body People in and out of the industry misuse the term PV panel all the time. The NEC is pretty clear that the basic building block for a PV system is a module, the complete unit. Assemble some of these together now you have a panel. (This is less common now that we have 250 watt modules and not 50 watt modules.) An array is defined in the NEC as a mechanically integrated unit; I tend to think of an array as all of the modules on site. They added a definition for a subarray in the 2011 NEC; this is an electrical subset of an array. On 2/8/11 4:49 PM, benn kilburn b...@daystarsolar.ca wrote: Wrenchers, Which term do you to describe a single framed unit with either a j-box or two wire leads on the back, module or panel? Which term do you believe to be correct and why? My interpretation is that a single framed unit is a module. Any number of modules attached to a single detached 'rack' is a panel, and a group of panels with the same orientation or mounting location/type is an array. If you agree with my interpretation, what are your thoughts on the widespread use of the term 'panel' to describe a module. thanks, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installer ™ david.brear...@solarprofessional.com Direct: 541.261.6545 Fax: 541.512.0343 Visit our Web site at solarprofessional.com (Sample copy available for download at: solarprofessional.com/sample) ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel
FYI, gang (and for what it is worth), Home Power magazine settled on the following long ago, and it seems consistent with other uses: A panel can be used to refer to something that captures heat energy, but does not use the photovoltaic effect. (Like SHW panel, but even SHW collector is what we usually use.) A single framed set of PV cells with said connecting method is a PV module. More than one PV module wired together in a set is an array (or a sub-array, which can also refer to mechanical connection). All the sub-arrays in a system constitute an array. Admittedly, there is some arbitrariness in there, but we wanted the magazine to be consistent. There is no such thing as a solar PV module or panel -- but if there was it would capture twice the amount of energy due to redundance. benn kilburn wrote at 02:49 PM 2/8/2011: Wrenchers, Which term do you to describe a single framed unit with either a j-box or two wire leads on the back, module or panel? Which term do you believe to be correct and why? My interpretation is that a single framed unit is a module. Any number of modules attached to a single detached 'rack' is a panel, and a group of panels with the same orientation or mounting location/type is an array. If you agree with my interpretation, what are your thoughts on the widespread use of the term 'panel' to describe a module. thanks, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel
However, the term panel does appear in the NEC in the context of Article 690 Solar Photovoltaic Systems. (You'll have to submit a proposal to the Code Making Panel to change the name of the Article, Michael.) Panel is defined a collection of modules mechanically fastened together, wired and designed to provide a field installable unit. The third photo down in this article shows modules being panelized (bottom left) and a panel being lifted into position by a crane (top right): http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=SP3_4_pg26_Braysearch= On 2/8/11 5:19 PM, Michael Welch michael.we...@re-wrenches.org wrote: FYI, gang (and for what it is worth), Home Power magazine settled on the following long ago, and it seems consistent with other uses: A panel can be used to refer to something that captures heat energy, but does not use the photovoltaic effect. (Like SHW panel, but even SHW collector is what we usually use.) A single framed set of PV cells with said connecting method is a PV module. More than one PV module wired together in a set is an array (or a sub-array, which can also refer to mechanical connection). All the sub-arrays in a system constitute an array. Admittedly, there is some arbitrariness in there, but we wanted the magazine to be consistent. There is no such thing as a solar PV module or panel -- but if there was it would capture twice the amount of energy due to redundance. benn kilburn wrote at 02:49 PM 2/8/2011: Wrenchers, Which term do you to describe a single framed unit with either a j-box or two wire leads on the back, module or panel? Which term do you believe to be correct and why? My interpretation is that a single framed unit is a module. Any number of modules attached to a single detached 'rack' is a panel, and a group of panels with the same orientation or mounting location/type is an array. If you agree with my interpretation, what are your thoughts on the widespread use of the term 'panel' to describe a module. thanks, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installer david.brear...@solarprofessional.com Direct: 541.261.6545 Fax: 541.512.0343 Visit our Web site at solarprofessional.com (Sample copy available for download at: solarprofessional.com/sample) ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel
On 2/8/2011 3:40 PM, David Brearley wrote: However, the term panel does appear in the NEC in the context of Article 690 Solar Photovoltaic Systems. (You'll have to submit a proposal to the Code Making Panel to change the name of the Article, Michael.) Panel is defined a collection of modules mechanically fastened together, wired and designed to provide a field installable unit. The third photo down in this article shows modules being panelized (bottom left) and a panel being lifted into position by a crane (top right): http://solarprofessional.com/article/?file=SP3_4_pg26_Braysearch= I would say, good luck in trying to change the world's useof these words... Kind of like the usage of Bulk Voltagevs.Absorb Voltage which we tried to change years ago at OB.(I'm not totally sure if that worked or not ?) It's very hard for the majority of users/people to change old habits, even if they are technically incorrect. I find myself trying very hard to NOT say solar panel, but to use the correct terminology. Maybe an HP and/or SP article would be good on this and world will then all use the correct terminology from that point on. boB On 2/8/11 5:19 PM, Michael Welchmichael.we...@re-wrenches.org wrote: FYI, gang (and for what it is worth), Home Power magazine settled on the following long ago, and it seems consistent with other uses: A panel can be used to refer to something that captures heat energy, but does not use the photovoltaic effect. (Like SHW panel, but even SHW collector is what we usually use.) A single framed set of PV cells with said connecting method is a PV module. More than one PV module wired together in a set is an array (or a sub-array, which can also refer to mechanical connection). All the sub-arrays in a system constitute an array. Admittedly, there is some arbitrariness in there, but we wanted the magazine to be consistent. There is no such thing as a solar PV module or panel -- but if there was it would capture twice the amount of energy due to redundance. benn kilburn wrote at 02:49 PM 2/8/2011: Wrenchers, Which term do you to describe a single framed unit with either a j-box or two wire leads on the back, module or panel? Which term do you believe to be correct and why? My interpretation is that a single framed unit is a module. Any number of modules attached to a single detached 'rack' is a panel, and a group of panels with the same orientation or mounting location/type is an array. If you agree with my interpretation, what are your thoughts on the widespread use of the term 'panel' to describe a module. thanks, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel
It tells me their marketing people have never read the NECno big surprise thereand maybe they are new to the PV industry. But the term PV panel is also used so ubiquitously in place of the term PV moduleboth in common parlance and in the industrythat it¹s probably going to supersede the terms in the NEC over time. Since the NEC terms were defined when modules were 50W each, one could make the case that a 250W module bears some resemblance to a panel, as originally conceived. One new company that does know the difference is Solyndra. Each cylinder in Solyndra-speak is a module. They refer to the field-installable assembly is a panel. Technically perfect use of the terms. My personal pet peeve is not keeping power and energy straight. We can all distinguish between between miles-per-hour and miles. So how come some people in this industry can¹t keep kW and kWh straight? That smells fishy to me, especially in ³technical sales² literature. On 2/8/11 5:20 PM, benn kilburn b...@daystarsolar.ca wrote: Dave, thanks for the reply. What are your thoughts when you see (in various publications and/or websites) solar PV distributers and even module manufacturers using the term 'panel' to describe a 'module'? benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2011 17:02:32 -0600 From: david.brear...@solarprofessional.com To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel Message body People in and out of the industry misuse the term PV panel all the time. The NEC is pretty clear that the basic building block for a PV system is a module, the complete unit. Assemble some of these together now you have a panel. (This is less common now that we have 250 watt modules and not 50 watt modules.) An array is defined in the NEC as a mechanically integrated unit; I tend to think of an array as all of the modules on site. They added a definition for a subarray in the 2011 NEC; this is an electrical subset of an array. On 2/8/11 4:49 PM, benn kilburn b...@daystarsolar.ca http://b...@daystarsolar.ca wrote: Wrenchers, Which term do you to describe a single framed unit with either a j-box or two wire leads on the back, module or panel? Which term do you believe to be correct and why? My interpretation is that a single framed unit is a module. Any number of modules attached to a single detached 'rack' is a panel, and a group of panels with the same orientation or mounting location/type is an array. If you agree with my interpretation, what are your thoughts on the widespread use of the term 'panel' to describe a module. thanks, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca http://b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org http://RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installer david.brear...@solarprofessional.com http://david.brear...@solarprofessional.com Direct: 541.261.6545 Fax: 541.512.0343 Visit our Web site at solarprofessional.com (Sample copy available for download at: solarprofessional.com/sample) ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org David Brearley, Senior Technical Editor SolarPro magazine NABCEP Certified PV Installer david.brear...@solarprofessional.com Direct: 541.261.6545 Fax: 541.512.0343 Visit our Web site at solarprofessional.com (Sample copy available for download at: solarprofessional.com/sample) ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http
Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel
I think it is a tough battle getting that straight. If there is one of them, it is a Module. If there is more than one, then it is a Panel. All of them together is an Array. Most customers would like to think: panel versus panels or module versus modules. There are a very few other English words that change completely when made plural... A Gaggle of Geese i.e a Panel of Modules. It just sounds weird. Try using both together, like PV Module Panel. That is what I do... Thanks Maverick Brown BSEET, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer R Specializing in Off-Grid Remote Power Systems President CEO Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. Billing: PO BOX 1229, Dripping Springs, TX 78620 Shipping: 11402 Antler Bend Road, Austin, TX 78737 Office: 512-919-4493 Fax: 512-607-6398 Cell: 512-460-9825 Store: blocked::http://www.mavericksolar.com/ http://www.mavericksolar.com Corporate: http://www.mavericksolarenterprises.com/ http://www.mavericksolarenterprises.com _ From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of benn kilburn Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 4:50 PM To: Wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] module / panel Wrenchers, Which term do you to describe a single framed unit with either a j-box or two wire leads on the back, module or panel? Which term do you believe to be correct and why? My interpretation is that a single framed unit is a module. Any number of modules attached to a single detached 'rack' is a panel, and a group of panels with the same orientation or mounting location/type is an array. If you agree with my interpretation, what are your thoughts on the widespread use of the term 'panel' to describe a module. thanks, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] module / panel
Cells? Modules? Bell Labs use to call them solar batteries. Call them what you will, but please buy and use them. Nomenclature from micro to macro: Cell Module Panel Sub-array Array Power Field. From Solar Photovoltaic Applications Seminar: Design, Installation and Operation of Small, Stand-Alone Photovoltaic Systems, July 1980, DOE/CS/32522-T1 (with thanks to Jim Fortenberry for his copy when the DOE shut down the PV Division of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in 1984): A PV array is composed of many subarrays, panels, modules, and cells in various series, parallel, star, and delta combinations. Individual cells are wired together and mounted to produce a module. From UL 1703: 2. Glossary 2.13 Module (Flat-Plate) - The smallest environmentally protected, essentially planar assembly of solar cells and ancillary parts, such as interconnects and terminals, intended to generate dc power under unconcentrated sunlight. The structural (load-carrying) member of a module can either be the top layer (superstrate), or the back layer (substrate), in which: a) The superstrate is the transparent material forming the to (light-facing) outer surface of the module. If load-carrying, this constitutes a structural superstrate. b) The substrate is the material forming the back out surface of a module. If load-carrying, this constitutes a structural substrate. 2.15 Panel (Flat-Plate) - A collection of modules mechanically fastened together, wired, and designed to provide a field-installable unit. Cell/Module/Panel factoids: There are such things as non-solar PV cells and modules. In 1983, a UCLA researcher used a silicon solar cell to measure the contractions (beats) of a heart cell. The heart cell was viewed on a television screen that was connected to a microscope. The solar cell was taped to the TV screen. When the cell contracted, the photons emitted by the TV screen changed causing the solar cell to generate current that was then recorded. In 1993, while at Solec International, I had a customer who used a small custom solar module mounted near the combustion chamber of a natural gas heater. The solar module used the photons emitted by the combusted gas to power the gas flow regulator. In 1994, while at Solar Integrated Technologies, I got the first UL listing for a photovoltaic panel (not module). Joel Davidson - Original Message - From: benn kilburn To: Wrenches Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 2:49 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] module / panel Wrenchers, Which term do you to describe a single framed unit with either a j-box or two wire leads on the back, module or panel? Which term do you believe to be correct and why? My interpretation is that a single framed unit is a module. Any number of modules attached to a single detached 'rack' is a panel, and a group of panels with the same orientation or mounting location/type is an array. If you agree with my interpretation, what are your thoughts on the widespread use of the term 'panel' to describe a module. thanks, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
