Re: [RE-wrenches] The Questions of product reliability
Dana and Wrenches I also have been around for quite awhile and Dana is spot on, we have been lied too to so many times, some from distributors, some manufactures. We still are in the wild west of renewables, Chinese module manufacturers with no clear contact information, inverter manufacturers that say they will alway be compatible with the new product lines up till they are not. We need to be the common sense for our customers, explain some design issues that they may want to avoid and give them solutions. Battery technology is what we will all have to understand and see through the mist for the facts not the hype. I will say that we are all out there to do good be good and help our customers make the best decision so when it sounds like an African Prince wants to make you a deal you all know what to do, we are in the same boat with solar separate the good from the bad and keep up the good fight. Jerry NABCEP PV Inspector On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 10:04 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Having been in the solar biz since 1988 I can, but will not make a list of > products that have come & gone; products that have been Guinea pigged on > all of us, promises that have been made & not kept, equipment that has > caught fire & individuals that have made unrealistic promises to clients > that have really damaged the reputations of the balance of those of us who > are trying to build a reliable & reputable reputations in a still growing > now teen aged industry. > > > > That said I have held back on installing new product introductions & still > do on say micro inverters: they get really hot & really cold & the long > term reliability of a product that suffers that will suffer in the long > run. I do not know of many 5-8 year old micro inverter systems that have > not had at least some inverter components replaced. I remember the first > micro inverter training class that I attended & the presenter kept using > the term mean time to failure, & I questioned this term. The response was > that the components used in similar situations should allow for a similar > life span. I had this discussion today with a friend who has a unobstructed > south facing roof with no shading, with a micro inverter system that is > looking at expanding & wanted more micro inverters because he felt the > information on what every inverter/module pair was doing was important. I > asked him but what fails? The answer was: Not the Module but the inverter > that was the weak link. So why use a micro invert in his application? > > > > String inverters? Less so but I have seen failure rashes of at least 1 > Manu that have surfaced I have had to address multiple similar sized units > replacement, at least I was standing on the ground to repair. > > > > New products for offgrid & grid tie continue to come online regularly. > Today at least UL/ETL type testing awards some level of reliability & takes > some of the concern out for us as installers. > > > > At this point you are wondering where the heck is I am going with this > rant? > > > >- How many companies have really followed thru with their promises? >- How many companies products really last as promised? >- How many companies have available, accurate, & prompt/timely >customer tech service? >- How many companies get the replacement components out the door >promptly? > > > > I really try to support manufacturers, wholesalers, & companies that meet > these criteria. > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel - E - d...@solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Friday, June 3, 2022 9:41 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jerry Shafer > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge - appears generator integration > is not on any near-term path to completion > > > > When it comes to what manufacturers will have in the future, > guaranteeing or stating that a product will have a feature in the future is > mostly doomed to failure, enphase, LG Chem, Ford and so many > obsolete inverter manufacturers that have come and gone. You might as well > be selling snake oil, you are backing yourself into a corner that has no > good way out, just dont sell something that is not there yet. You can use > this in your favor by telling your customer at the kitchen table that > anyone that is selling you on a gen set integration better be able to back > it up with facts and if they can't, Well, now the customer will have more > belief in you as a result. > > SE has some grand plans but until they are in place and actually working > do yourself a favor and don't sell what is not available yet. You need to > remember that you are a contractor or acting in behalf of a contractor and > stating something that is not fact for being fact is a lie and that can get > the contractor in hot water. > > Jerry > > NABCEP PV Inspector > > > > On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 6:24 AM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches < > re-wr
Re: [RE-wrenches] The Questions of product reliability
My experience with microinverters is much different. Yes, there were lots of Enphase M190 replacements. But of the 40 M215s on my roof, only one has failed in 9 years. Each successive generation has been more reliable. I consider the failure rate at this point totally acceptable, even for the systems I installed 12 plus years ago. And this is in one of the most challenging environments of Southwest Florida. The answer to your four questions in my opinion is: Enphase, Enphase, Enphase, and Enphase. I'll put a little asterisk with "mostly" by each one. The promises have been largely met, with relative minor failure issues and performance that exceeds expectations. The products last, at least long enough so far that it's no worse than nightmares with some other manufacturers' failure rates. Customer service is world class, especially in relative terms. When they had a timeliness issue they recognized it and solved it. While there have been minor delays at times, the ease and low cost of stocking compatible models for advance replacement allows me to provide world class warranty support. I have voiced my complaints about Enphase here numerous times, but on balance I don't see anyone else doing it better. I will admit, the roofs we work on are typically 6 in 12 or less, so micro swaps are an easy job, more often than not with 1 person even. I'm sure that plays a part in the decisions of my northern colleagues with steeper roof pitches to contend with. Jason Szumlanski Florida Solar Design Group On Fri, Jun 3, 2022, 1:04 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Having been in the solar biz since 1988 I can, but will not make a list of > products that have come & gone; products that have been Guinea pigged on > all of us, promises that have been made & not kept, equipment that has > caught fire & individuals that have made unrealistic promises to clients > that have really damaged the reputations of the balance of those of us who > are trying to build a reliable & reputable reputations in a still growing > now teen aged industry. > > > > That said I have held back on installing new product introductions & still > do on say micro inverters: they get really hot & really cold & the long > term reliability of a product that suffers that will suffer in the long > run. I do not know of many 5-8 year old micro inverter systems that have > not had at least some inverter components replaced. I remember the first > micro inverter training class that I attended & the presenter kept using > the term mean time to failure, & I questioned this term. The response was > that the components used in similar situations should allow for a similar > life span. I had this discussion today with a friend who has a unobstructed > south facing roof with no shading, with a micro inverter system that is > looking at expanding & wanted more micro inverters because he felt the > information on what every inverter/module pair was doing was important. I > asked him but what fails? The answer was: Not the Module but the inverter > that was the weak link. So why use a micro invert in his application? > > > > String inverters? Less so but I have seen failure rashes of at least 1 > Manu that have surfaced I have had to address multiple similar sized units > replacement, at least I was standing on the ground to repair. > > > > New products for offgrid & grid tie continue to come online regularly. > Today at least UL/ETL type testing awards some level of reliability & takes > some of the concern out for us as installers. > > > > At this point you are wondering where the heck is I am going with this > rant? > > > >- How many companies have really followed thru with their promises? >- How many companies products really last as promised? >- How many companies have available, accurate, & prompt/timely >customer tech service? >- How many companies get the replacement components out the door >promptly? > > > > I really try to support manufacturers, wholesalers, & companies that meet > these criteria. > > > > > > > > Dana Orzel - E - d...@solarwork.com - C - 208.721.7003 > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches *On > Behalf Of *Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Friday, June 3, 2022 9:41 AM > *To:* RE-wrenches > *Cc:* Jerry Shafer > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Edge - appears generator integration > is not on any near-term path to completion > > > > When it comes to what manufacturers will have in the future, > guaranteeing or stating that a product will have a feature in the future is > mostly doomed to failure, enphase, LG Chem, Ford and so many > obsolete inverter manufacturers that have come and gone. You might as well > be selling snake oil, you are backing yourself into a corner that has no > good way out, just dont sell something that is not there yet. You can use > this in your favor by telling your customer at the kitchen table that > anyone that is selling you on a gen set in
