[recoznet2] Refocus.
Hi all,
Perhaps we need to re-focus our efforts upon 'reconciliation' instead of
one individuals boringly tabloid opinions. There are a host of issues that
we could be discussing and even organising activities around.
**I propose the Arabunna Going Home camp this weekend in Northern SA.
Those interested go to www.come.to/lakeeyre
(below is a breif description of the history of the Keepers of Lake Eyre,
an alliance of environmental and Indigenous activists.)
**Perhaps others know of unrepresnted struggles or Indigenous events that
need support.
**Does anyone know what's happening with the Yorta Yorta appeal?
**Also has anyone got any idea how many Indigenous Australians actually
have access to the internet?
** Has anyone rung or written to any of the Northern Territory tourism
industries? Boycott the Territory until their ridiculous law is removed.
Boycotts, they will tell you, will hurt Indigenous businesses but Mandatory
Sentencing will hurt them more! They might say "You'll never, never know,
if you never never go!" But I say "We'll never, ever go until these laws
are gone!"
I hope someone can help me with my questions and offer some insight into
the aformentioned issues?
___
The ARABUNNA STRUGGLE.
The Arabunna, of the Oodnadatta region and situated along the western shore
of Nothern Lake Eyre in South Australia have taken to the internet with
their call for solidarity. Perhaps some of the first contact Arabunna had
with with European culture and economy was via explorers like J McD Stuart.
Such exploration was closely followed by camel drivers, herds of cattle,
railway development and the telegraph line. (Horton, D. Vol 1 1994:54)
The Arabunna people and culture persist today and with the support of the
Keepers of Lake Eyre (KOLE) are making their voice heard on the World Wide
Web.
Arabunna and other Indigenous folk of the 'Eyre' region met early
pastoralist colonialism with a 'fierce resistance.' (Horton, 1994:352)
Later these folk were integral to the pastoral industry however when
pastoral economies became less profitable the jobs gradually dried up. Due
to growing unemployment and complaints from local towns people many of the
Aboriginal people from this region were shipped off to foreign places as
far as eatsern QLD and throughout NSW. Many remained close to their
traditional lands and reside in Port August and Adelaide.
Elder, (Uncle) Kevin Buzzacott has called all Arabunna to return home to
their traditonal lands and oppose the further destruction of their land and
therefore heritage and cultural autonomy. Those that want to learn about
his country and its history have also come to Lake Eyre and the Arabunna
Camp in support of the areas traditonal custodians. KOLE support both the
maintenance and regeneration ('unkeep') of Arabunna culture and knowledge
as well as protection of Arabunna land, traditonal 'Law' and people.
KOLE had their first gathering in January of 1999, in Adelaide, South
Australia with the intention of supporting Kevin's going home camp due to
begin on March 26th, the same day as the official opening of Western Mining
Corporations (WMC) Olympic Dam Expansion Project. The camp lasted 9 months
before it was diamantled by WMC with the assistance of local police. The
Arabunna continue to resist the developments of WMC upon their traditional
lands.
The camp is set to be rebuilt this year March 26th. All are welcome.
Contact KOLE for more information.
_
P.S. Removing someone from the list seems counter productive.
---
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Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only
I didn't see a personal attack, Karen. Jack painted a scenario because you left everyone wondering. You haven't been exactly honest with us, have you? You have defended the police without telling us you weren't a disinterested bystander. You have refused to acknowledge that the police sometimes victimise. Some time ago, we had a policeman on the list who's views were very much the same as yours, Karen. There was one difference though, he realised that he should try to help Indigenous youth instead of just judging them. He really cared even though his education had been one of the One Nation point of view. We had very robust discussions on this list then too, but he listened and his views did change somewhat. Trudy Karen Crook wrote: > > It is coming up with these crazy personal attacks that will see > Reconciliation go nowhere. > Because you attack others when you don't get the way you want. Hm, > that's fair! > I think you need a new game plan Jack. > > --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only (WHOOPS)
Title: Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only (WHOOPS) I wrote: Whatever the case, lets just get on with everyone! Whoops! This is NOT what I meant to say! Getting on with everyone is NOT a good idea. It breeds a foolish and useless complacency about issues that really matter! What I meant to say was "let's just get on with it (i.e the issues of real consequence), everyone! I for one, will miss greatly Laurie Ford's contributions. Laurie has been around since long before "recoznet2" came into existence! From the days when Bruce Reyburn first started these very valuable lists in fact. I don't have easy access to his/her (I've never been sure which) early posts but remember: At 09:40 AM +1000 14/7/99, Laurie Forde wrote: This highights the fact that there is no 'System" to be destroyed---rather there are greedy, uncaring individuals whose attitudes must be challenged and overcome, if any real measure of equality and justice is ever to be established. It is important to always refer to these societal transgressors by name if they are to be properly engaged---it is not enough to be forever just ''Struggling against the System." Laurie and At 08:47 AM +1000 20/8/99, Laurie Forde wrote: This is a big step in the right directionWell done Rod Welford and the Beattie Government. Interestingly, there has not been a word of this successful tranfer of Ownership in the Courier Mail. Maybe the powers that be do not want Queenslanders to see how easily Indigenous Ownership of Land can be restored when a genuine approach is taken---they might begin ignoring the clarion racist calls of the Coalition whenever Native Title is mentioned. Laurie -- Somehow seems pertinent given the current nonsense! And who could forget the wonderful quote from another message: At 08:47 AM +1000 12/8/99, Laurie Forde wrote: " Words are the weapons- the armory of the dispossessed"---from the ABC programme "The Irish Empire". My own view is that Laurie should be invited back on board, whatever his/her indiscretions in the heat of the moment! We desperately need people like Laurie around this place! Cheers Rod -- Rod Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hurstbridge, Victoria, Australia WWW http://www.netspace.net.au/~rodhagen
Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
So you just gave the police side again. What about the other side you mentioned. You said you have seen 'both' sides. Karen Crook wrote: > > I have also seen the people they come up against and seen the incidents and > the scars, the hate and the anger. > There are always two sides. > I've seen what they are up against. I used to live in a central Queensland > town where the criminals knew the law better than any of them because they > knew how to abuse it. And that they did. Officers get hurt on the job also > thanks to people with no respect for the law. > > Someone in an earlier e-mail told me to consider that people in prisons have > wives, husbands and families too. > > Well so too do police officers. Do you think they find it fun to see if > their loved ones will come home tonight? > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 5:25 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The > Police State? > > So you just gave the police side. What is the other side that you > referred to? > > Karen Crook wrote: > > > > I have seen officers work very hard to perform their duties > > and I have seen what they come up against being attacked every day for > > supposedly doing wrong. > > Not all police are corrupt you know! > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > > Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 4:06 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The > > Police State? > > > > To which 'both sides' are you referring? > > > > Karen Crook wrote: > > > > > > I also come from a police family so my experience has been seen from > both > > > sides. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > > > Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 12:06 PM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The > > > Police State? > > > > > > Since you know the date this came into effect so well, does this mean > > > that your are with the police? > > > > > > Trudy > > > > > > > > > > --- > > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived > at > > http://www.mail-archive.com/ > > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the > > body > > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without > > permission from the > > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and > > research under the "fair > > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be > distributed > > further without > > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ > > http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ > > > > --- > > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived > at http://www.mail-archive.com/ > > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the > body > > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without > permission from the > > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and > research under the "fair > > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be > distributed further without > > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ > http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ > > -- > _ > Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti > - > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at > http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the > body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without > permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and > research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed > further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ > http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ > > -
RE: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only
It is coming up with these crazy personal attacks that will see Reconciliation go nowhere. Because you attack others when you don't get the way you want. Hm, that's fair! I think you need a new game plan Jack. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jack Ellis Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 4:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only Here, after considerable research, is the truth about "Karen Crook". In actual fact "she" is a senior functionary in the Prime Minister's department specialising in infiltrating and disrupting lists and other organisations which pay too much attention to government policy and action. "She"...or rather he...is, in short, an agent provocateur. She replaces a previous agent, who shall remain nameless (it wasn't his real name either)...But We All Know Who He Is. Or Was; he lost his nerve and was brought in from the cold. "Karen Crook" is in fact a pun (Caring Crook, ha ha!) based on George Dubyuh Bush's laughably oxymoronic slogan, "caring conservatism". It's not very funny but, you of course appreciate, a sense of humour doesn't rate high among recruiters for the PM's Dept or at all with the Little Big Man himself. (Either one, Johnny or Dubyuh.) "Her" commission, according to my informant, is to disrupt the list by distracting it. The MO, as recorded in the DOPM handbook, works like this. 1) First, join the group and start making outrageous statements, the more apparently uninformed, the better. Attack the disadvantaged; kick the defenceless; stomp all over the widows and orphans. The sky's the limit. This is the over-the-top phase, anyone can do it, you don't even get to interview stage without some pretty major silliness. 2) When challenged, shift your ground. This is harder; middle-level skill. The aim is to change the subject. Of course, you weren't being serious in the first place, so the last thing you want to do is explain yourself. BUT, and the But is crucial, make sure the switch is totally illogical. Why? See DOPM Manual 07.2.07) all the serious, rational people will dissipate their energies trying to respond as if you actually gave a damn. Which, naturally, you don't. 3) OK. Now the hard part. Here they sort the Lances (SORRY, I didn't mean to say that, Trudy, forget it OK!)... Suggestions follow (and recruits should be encouraged to propose their own idiocies, and appropriately graded). - When you've run out of irrelevancies, play offended. (And play it GOOD, this is what sorts the sheep from the department heads!) - Plead the First. Well, we don't have any rights, so don't take me literally. But weep crocodile tears over your right to express an opinion. Can't _I_ have an opinion, sniff sniff? Everyone else does. Poor me! Good work, sir, that's the way. - On a list, send lots of minor stupidities. Keep serious people off balance. Volume is important here; prioritise numbers over content. Always, always, always keep open the possibility of claiming you said something completely different. (Of course you did. You said seventeen different things and, when it comes down to it, no one's going to remember any of them.) 4) Finally. And I mean finally, this is Top-Level stuff... ...OK, here, now, at this very point in time, as I was about to finish, is Karen's admission, or claim, or boast. But is this true or is it yet another of her porkies? I'll finish and see what happens next. Almost. I can't resist pointing out that when she says > I also come from a police family so my > experience has been seen from BOTH sides (my caps) I'm intrigued to know what that "both" means. _Both_ sides? Cops and robbers. Caring CROOK, as I guessed. Jack This is STILL a distraction from what matters. Jack -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Graham Young Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 6:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! Karen, I'm not quite sure that I understand all of your last post, but underlying it seems to be an acceptance that the way that our society is organised now with respect to private property is better than it was. If that is the case, would you agree that our current system is more moral? Would you also agree that taking something that belongs to someone else is wrong? With respect to your last comment, if I were living on a sacred site and an aboriginal group had the right to obtain the land from me, then yes, I would go, just as I would if it was required for road purposes, for example. But I would expect to be compensated for the loss of it, and it would probably only occur in circumstances where there was government legislation to back it. That is the point of my example. While there is evidence that colonial administrations actually believed aborigines to have property rights these were never respected. The land was appropriated without the
[recoznet2] Cut the repeats?
Just a reminder to cut the extraneous bits off any message that you answer please! We don't want to fill the archives with endless repeats when the space could be better utilised. I will try to remember also! ;-) Trudy -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
I have also seen the people they come up against and seen the incidents and the scars, the hate and the anger. There are always two sides. I've seen what they are up against. I used to live in a central Queensland town where the criminals knew the law better than any of them because they knew how to abuse it. And that they did. Officers get hurt on the job also thanks to people with no respect for the law. Someone in an earlier e-mail told me to consider that people in prisons have wives, husbands and families too. Well so too do police officers. Do you think they find it fun to see if their loved ones will come home tonight? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 5:25 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? So you just gave the police side. What is the other side that you referred to? Karen Crook wrote: > > I have seen officers work very hard to perform their duties > and I have seen what they come up against being attacked every day for > supposedly doing wrong. > Not all police are corrupt you know! > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 4:06 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The > Police State? > > To which 'both sides' are you referring? > > Karen Crook wrote: > > > > I also come from a police family so my experience has been seen from both > > sides. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > > Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 12:06 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The > > Police State? > > > > Since you know the date this came into effect so well, does this mean > > that your are with the police? > > > > Trudy > > > > > > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at > http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the > body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without > permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and > research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed > further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ > http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ > > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual mem
[recoznet2] Re: Karen the spy ;)
Perhaps some people on this list need to download ICQ! --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
So you just gave the police side. What is the other side that you referred to? Karen Crook wrote: > > I have seen officers work very hard to perform their duties > and I have seen what they come up against being attacked every day for > supposedly doing wrong. > Not all police are corrupt you know! > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 4:06 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The > Police State? > > To which 'both sides' are you referring? > > Karen Crook wrote: > > > > I also come from a police family so my experience has been seen from both > > sides. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > > Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 12:06 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The > > Police State? > > > > Since you know the date this came into effect so well, does this mean > > that your are with the police? > > > > Trudy > > > > > > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at > http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the > body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without > permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and > research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed > further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ > http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ > > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at >http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission >from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under >the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further >without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ >http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
For anyone interested in what I was trying to highlight, go to: www.police.qld.gov.au and look under "About the Service" You will see the Guide to the Police Powers and Repsonsibilities Act. That's all I was doing. Yes, it seems some people do seem intent on making a mountain out of a mole hill - considering all I said in my very first e-mail was when it came into effect. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Graham Young Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 4:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? Karen, I would be interested in a copy of the police magazine, but the bill that the release refers to is in the parliament at the moment, so whatever it is you are referring to in the magazine, it is not what the ATSIC release refers to. The facts speak for themselves. There is just nothing to argue about. My P O Box is 1365, Fortitude Valley Qld 4006 Graham Y - Original Message - From: Karen Crook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 1:41 PM Subject: RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? > Am I? Then I'll be happy to send you a copy of the internal police magazine > that it was written in. > Then you can tell the police Superintendent and his committee who have > worked on the implementation that he's been doing nothing for the last year. > Give me your address and you'll have it by the end of this week. The > magazine isn't on-line unfortunately. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Graham Young > Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 12:40 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The > Police State? > > > Karen, > > As in so much of what you have been writing you are dead wrong. In fact I > am beginning to think you are just trying to get all of us going. > > How is it that you can just sit down and type this sort of nonsense into the > computer when any of us can breeze across to the Queensland Parliament site > and at > > http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au:81/D:/data/isysdbs/han/2000.pdf/000316DY.PD > F#xml=http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au:81/ISYSquery/IRL251B.tmp/6/hilite > > in the online version of the Hansard find that the bill you claim was > proclaimed on April 6, 1999 is in committee at the third reading stage?! > > Graham Young > > > - Original Message - > From: Karen Crook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 8:19 AM > Subject: RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police > State? > > > > For those who don't know, these powers were actually introduced on April 6 > > 1999 - so they have already been in use for quite some time. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > > Sent: Saturday, 18 March 2000 5:36 PM > > To: RecOzNet2 > > Subject: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police > > State? > > > > > > Forwarded from Christine Howes: > > > > ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? > > > > > > ATSIC has joined civil liberties groups and Queensland's Anti > > Discrimination > > Commissioner in warning of a massive increase in arbitrary and > > unappealable > > police powers, including controversial new "move on" provisions. > > > > ATSIC Commissioner for Brisbane Patricia Thompson, today called for > > Premier > > Peter Beattie to suspend the passage of the bill through State > > Parliament > > to allow for adequate parliamentary and public scrutiny. > > > > "The Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill contains a massive increase > > in > > arbitrary police powers, but it has had almost no parliamentary or > > public > > scrutiny," Commissioner Thompson said. > > > > "The provisions of the bill are an unprecedented assault on the basic > > rights > > and liberties of all Queenslanders. > > > > "Alarm bells should be ringing for every member of the Queensland > > Parliament over many aspects this legislation, not just the 'move on' > > provisions. > > > > "Yet there has hardly been a murmur from politicians or the mainstream > > media > > over this. > > > > "There clearly needs to be a lot more public and parliamentary scrutiny > > of > > these measures unless the Government is prepared to wear the odium of > > Queensland being portrayed as a police state." > > > > > > -- > > * > > Make the Hunger Site your homepage! > > http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html > > * > > --- > > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived > at > > http://www.mail-archive.com/ > > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the > > body > > of the message, include the
RE: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only
A pity those who think they have a sense of huomour could not be more right or funny for that matter!! I am not offended - I understand you have a lack of respect, as everyone thinks I do. I have to prove nothing to you. And I am all woman thank you very much. I wouldn't work for the Prime minister even if you paid me a million dollars. Perhaps you should stop trying to personally attack and work on your comedy routine. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jack Ellis Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 4:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only Here, after considerable research, is the truth about "Karen Crook". In actual fact "she" is a senior functionary in the Prime Minister's department specialising in infiltrating and disrupting lists and other organisations which pay too much attention to government policy and action. "She"...or rather he...is, in short, an agent provocateur. She replaces a previous agent, who shall remain nameless (it wasn't his real name either)...But We All Know Who He Is. Or Was; he lost his nerve and was brought in from the cold. "Karen Crook" is in fact a pun (Caring Crook, ha ha!) based on George Dubyuh Bush's laughably oxymoronic slogan, "caring conservatism". It's not very funny but, you of course appreciate, a sense of humour doesn't rate high among recruiters for the PM's Dept or at all with the Little Big Man himself. (Either one, Johnny or Dubyuh.) "Her" commission, according to my informant, is to disrupt the list by distracting it. The MO, as recorded in the DOPM handbook, works like this. 1) First, join the group and start making outrageous statements, the more apparently uninformed, the better. Attack the disadvantaged; kick the defenceless; stomp all over the widows and orphans. The sky's the limit. This is the over-the-top phase, anyone can do it, you don't even get to interview stage without some pretty major silliness. 2) When challenged, shift your ground. This is harder; middle-level skill. The aim is to change the subject. Of course, you weren't being serious in the first place, so the last thing you want to do is explain yourself. BUT, and the But is crucial, make sure the switch is totally illogical. Why? See DOPM Manual 07.2.07) all the serious, rational people will dissipate their energies trying to respond as if you actually gave a damn. Which, naturally, you don't. 3) OK. Now the hard part. Here they sort the Lances (SORRY, I didn't mean to say that, Trudy, forget it OK!)... Suggestions follow (and recruits should be encouraged to propose their own idiocies, and appropriately graded). - When you've run out of irrelevancies, play offended. (And play it GOOD, this is what sorts the sheep from the department heads!) - Plead the First. Well, we don't have any rights, so don't take me literally. But weep crocodile tears over your right to express an opinion. Can't _I_ have an opinion, sniff sniff? Everyone else does. Poor me! Good work, sir, that's the way. - On a list, send lots of minor stupidities. Keep serious people off balance. Volume is important here; prioritise numbers over content. Always, always, always keep open the possibility of claiming you said something completely different. (Of course you did. You said seventeen different things and, when it comes down to it, no one's going to remember any of them.) 4) Finally. And I mean finally, this is Top-Level stuff... ...OK, here, now, at this very point in time, as I was about to finish, is Karen's admission, or claim, or boast. But is this true or is it yet another of her porkies? I'll finish and see what happens next. Almost. I can't resist pointing out that when she says > I also come from a police family so my > experience has been seen from BOTH sides (my caps) I'm intrigued to know what that "both" means. _Both_ sides? Cops and robbers. Caring CROOK, as I guessed. Jack This is STILL a distraction from what matters. Jack -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Graham Young Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 6:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! Karen, I'm not quite sure that I understand all of your last post, but underlying it seems to be an acceptance that the way that our society is organised now with respect to private property is better than it was. If that is the case, would you agree that our current system is more moral? Would you also agree that taking something that belongs to someone else is wrong? With respect to your last comment, if I were living on a sacred site and an aboriginal group had the right to obtain the land from me, then yes, I would go, just as I would if it was required for road purposes, for example. But I would expect to be compensated for the loss of it, and it would probably only occur in circumstances where there was government legislation to ba
RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
So too does: A Guide To the Police Powers & Responsibilties Act. I was saying the powers have been around for a little while, they are not brand new as people seem to think. Move-on powers is covered on page 11 of the Guide i sent you -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Graham Young Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 4:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? Karen, I would be interested in a copy of the police magazine, but the bill that the release refers to is in the parliament at the moment, so whatever it is you are referring to in the magazine, it is not what the ATSIC release refers to. The facts speak for themselves. There is just nothing to argue about. My P O Box is 1365, Fortitude Valley Qld 4006 Graham Y - Original Message - From: Karen Crook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 1:41 PM Subject: RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? > Am I? Then I'll be happy to send you a copy of the internal police magazine > that it was written in. > Then you can tell the police Superintendent and his committee who have > worked on the implementation that he's been doing nothing for the last year. > Give me your address and you'll have it by the end of this week. The > magazine isn't on-line unfortunately. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Graham Young > Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 12:40 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The > Police State? > > > Karen, > > As in so much of what you have been writing you are dead wrong. In fact I > am beginning to think you are just trying to get all of us going. > > How is it that you can just sit down and type this sort of nonsense into the > computer when any of us can breeze across to the Queensland Parliament site > and at > > http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au:81/D:/data/isysdbs/han/2000.pdf/000316DY.PD > F#xml=http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au:81/ISYSquery/IRL251B.tmp/6/hilite > > in the online version of the Hansard find that the bill you claim was > proclaimed on April 6, 1999 is in committee at the third reading stage?! > > Graham Young > > > - Original Message - > From: Karen Crook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 8:19 AM > Subject: RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police > State? > > > > For those who don't know, these powers were actually introduced on April 6 > > 1999 - so they have already been in use for quite some time. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > > Sent: Saturday, 18 March 2000 5:36 PM > > To: RecOzNet2 > > Subject: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police > > State? > > > > > > Forwarded from Christine Howes: > > > > ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? > > > > > > ATSIC has joined civil liberties groups and Queensland's Anti > > Discrimination > > Commissioner in warning of a massive increase in arbitrary and > > unappealable > > police powers, including controversial new "move on" provisions. > > > > ATSIC Commissioner for Brisbane Patricia Thompson, today called for > > Premier > > Peter Beattie to suspend the passage of the bill through State > > Parliament > > to allow for adequate parliamentary and public scrutiny. > > > > "The Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill contains a massive increase > > in > > arbitrary police powers, but it has had almost no parliamentary or > > public > > scrutiny," Commissioner Thompson said. > > > > "The provisions of the bill are an unprecedented assault on the basic > > rights > > and liberties of all Queenslanders. > > > > "Alarm bells should be ringing for every member of the Queensland > > Parliament over many aspects this legislation, not just the 'move on' > > provisions. > > > > "Yet there has hardly been a murmur from politicians or the mainstream > > media > > over this. > > > > "There clearly needs to be a lot more public and parliamentary scrutiny > > of > > these measures unless the Government is prepared to wear the odium of > > Queensland being portrayed as a police state." > > > > > > -- > > * > > Make the Hunger Site your homepage! > > http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html > > * > > --- > > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived > at > > http://www.mail-archive.com/ > > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the > > body > > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > > This posting is provided to the indi
RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
My comments have nothing to do with the police service. They are mine. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 4:03 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? Thank you for confirming my suspicions. It explains a lot. Karen Crook wrote: > > Yes > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 12:06 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The > Police State? > > Since you know the date this came into effect so well, does this mean > that your are with the police? > > Trudy > > Karen Crook wrote: > > > > For those who don't know, these powers were actually introduced on April 6 > > 1999 - so they have already been in use for quite some time. > --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
RE: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only
You people are so wrong - and you think I am!! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Rod Hagen Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 5:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only I might add that my own "theory" is that there is a far more mundane explanation of Karen than that offered by Jack. I think Karen is a former employee of the Queensland Public Service Media and Public Relations Department who may well genuinely hold to the cliched views that she states here. No doubt she must feel flattered and justified by the response which she has managed to create. Whatever the case, lets just get on with everyone! Cheers Rod -- Rod Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hurstbridge, Victoria, Australia WWWhttp://www.netspace.net.au/~rodhagen --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
I have seen officers work very hard to perform their duties and I have seen what they come up against being attacked every day for supposedly doing wrong. Not all police are corrupt you know! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 4:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? To which 'both sides' are you referring? Karen Crook wrote: > > I also come from a police family so my experience has been seen from both > sides. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 12:06 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The > Police State? > > Since you know the date this came into effect so well, does this mean > that your are with the police? > > Trudy > > --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only
I might add that my own "theory" is that there is a far more mundane explanation of Karen than that offered by Jack. I think Karen is a former employee of the Queensland Public Service Media and Public Relations Department who may well genuinely hold to the cliched views that she states here. No doubt she must feel flattered and justified by the response which she has managed to create. Whatever the case, lets just get on with everyone! Cheers Rod -- Rod Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hurstbridge, Victoria, Australia WWWhttp://www.netspace.net.au/~rodhagen --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
To which 'both sides' are you referring? Karen Crook wrote: > > I also come from a police family so my experience has been seen from both > sides. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 12:06 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The > Police State? > > Since you know the date this came into effect so well, does this mean > that your are with the police? > > Trudy > > --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
Thank you for confirming my suspicions. It explains a lot. Karen Crook wrote: > > Yes > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 12:06 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The > Police State? > > Since you know the date this came into effect so well, does this mean > that your are with the police? > > Trudy > > Karen Crook wrote: > > > > For those who don't know, these powers were actually introduced on April 6 > > 1999 - so they have already been in use for quite some time. > --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only
Whatever the reality of Karen Crook (aka the "coronaqueen") I think your last comment is the most important one, Jack. This is a significant distraction from the real issues and should be treated as such (simply by ignoring it). If there is anything useful to be taken from her posts it is, perhaps the nature and style of the arguments raised. They reflect quite beautifully the thoughts of many whose knowledge of the world relies fundamentally on tabloid newspapers,a certain commercial media outlet's "news" and "current affairs" programs (listen to the Beatles White Album if you want to know which one!) and various radio "shock jocks". There isn't any real point in responding to the "arguments" here (it simply wastes all our time and energy), but you can learn quite a lot from the distillation of them in her posts. Save your responses instead for the next argument you have over a suburban barbecue with the next door neighbor. But lets not waste any more time on it here! Cheers Rod -- Rod Hagen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hurstbridge, Victoria, Australia WWWhttp://www.netspace.net.au/~rodhagen --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
Karen, I would be interested in a copy of the police magazine, but the bill that the release refers to is in the parliament at the moment, so whatever it is you are referring to in the magazine, it is not what the ATSIC release refers to. The facts speak for themselves. There is just nothing to argue about. My P O Box is 1365, Fortitude Valley Qld 4006 Graham Y - Original Message - From: Karen Crook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 1:41 PM Subject: RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? > Am I? Then I'll be happy to send you a copy of the internal police magazine > that it was written in. > Then you can tell the police Superintendent and his committee who have > worked on the implementation that he's been doing nothing for the last year. > Give me your address and you'll have it by the end of this week. The > magazine isn't on-line unfortunately. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Graham Young > Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 12:40 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The > Police State? > > > Karen, > > As in so much of what you have been writing you are dead wrong. In fact I > am beginning to think you are just trying to get all of us going. > > How is it that you can just sit down and type this sort of nonsense into the > computer when any of us can breeze across to the Queensland Parliament site > and at > > http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au:81/D:/data/isysdbs/han/2000.pdf/000316DY.PD > F#xml=http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au:81/ISYSquery/IRL251B.tmp/6/hilite > > in the online version of the Hansard find that the bill you claim was > proclaimed on April 6, 1999 is in committee at the third reading stage?! > > Graham Young > > > - Original Message - > From: Karen Crook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 8:19 AM > Subject: RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police > State? > > > > For those who don't know, these powers were actually introduced on April 6 > > 1999 - so they have already been in use for quite some time. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > > Sent: Saturday, 18 March 2000 5:36 PM > > To: RecOzNet2 > > Subject: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police > > State? > > > > > > Forwarded from Christine Howes: > > > > ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? > > > > > > ATSIC has joined civil liberties groups and Queensland's Anti > > Discrimination > > Commissioner in warning of a massive increase in arbitrary and > > unappealable > > police powers, including controversial new "move on" provisions. > > > > ATSIC Commissioner for Brisbane Patricia Thompson, today called for > > Premier > > Peter Beattie to suspend the passage of the bill through State > > Parliament > > to allow for adequate parliamentary and public scrutiny. > > > > "The Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill contains a massive increase > > in > > arbitrary police powers, but it has had almost no parliamentary or > > public > > scrutiny," Commissioner Thompson said. > > > > "The provisions of the bill are an unprecedented assault on the basic > > rights > > and liberties of all Queenslanders. > > > > "Alarm bells should be ringing for every member of the Queensland > > Parliament over many aspects this legislation, not just the 'move on' > > provisions. > > > > "Yet there has hardly been a murmur from politicians or the mainstream > > media > > over this. > > > > "There clearly needs to be a lot more public and parliamentary scrutiny > > of > > these measures unless the Government is prepared to wear the odium of > > Queensland being portrayed as a police state." > > > > > > -- > > * > > Make the Hunger Site your homepage! > > http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html > > * > > --- > > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived > at > > http://www.mail-archive.com/ > > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the > > body > > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without > > permission from the > > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and > > research under the "fair > > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be > distributed > > further without > > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ > > http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ > > > >
[recoznet2] For Your Eyes Only
Here, after considerable research, is the truth about "Karen Crook". In actual fact "she" is a senior functionary in the Prime Minister's department specialising in infiltrating and disrupting lists and other organisations which pay too much attention to government policy and action. "She"...or rather he...is, in short, an agent provocateur. She replaces a previous agent, who shall remain nameless (it wasn't his real name either)...But We All Know Who He Is. Or Was; he lost his nerve and was brought in from the cold. "Karen Crook" is in fact a pun (Caring Crook, ha ha!) based on George Dubyuh Bush's laughably oxymoronic slogan, "caring conservatism". It's not very funny but, you of course appreciate, a sense of humour doesn't rate high among recruiters for the PM's Dept or at all with the Little Big Man himself. (Either one, Johnny or Dubyuh.) "Her" commission, according to my informant, is to disrupt the list by distracting it. The MO, as recorded in the DOPM handbook, works like this. 1) First, join the group and start making outrageous statements, the more apparently uninformed, the better. Attack the disadvantaged; kick the defenceless; stomp all over the widows and orphans. The sky's the limit. This is the over-the-top phase, anyone can do it, you don't even get to interview stage without some pretty major silliness. 2) When challenged, shift your ground. This is harder; middle-level skill. The aim is to change the subject. Of course, you weren't being serious in the first place, so the last thing you want to do is explain yourself. BUT, and the But is crucial, make sure the switch is totally illogical. Why? See DOPM Manual 07.2.07) all the serious, rational people will dissipate their energies trying to respond as if you actually gave a damn. Which, naturally, you don't. 3) OK. Now the hard part. Here they sort the Lances (SORRY, I didn't mean to say that, Trudy, forget it OK!)... Suggestions follow (and recruits should be encouraged to propose their own idiocies, and appropriately graded). - When you've run out of irrelevancies, play offended. (And play it GOOD, this is what sorts the sheep from the department heads!) - Plead the First. Well, we don't have any rights, so don't take me literally. But weep crocodile tears over your right to express an opinion. Can't _I_ have an opinion, sniff sniff? Everyone else does. Poor me! Good work, sir, that's the way. - On a list, send lots of minor stupidities. Keep serious people off balance. Volume is important here; prioritise numbers over content. Always, always, always keep open the possibility of claiming you said something completely different. (Of course you did. You said seventeen different things and, when it comes down to it, no one's going to remember any of them.) 4) Finally. And I mean finally, this is Top-Level stuff... ...OK, here, now, at this very point in time, as I was about to finish, is Karen's admission, or claim, or boast. But is this true or is it yet another of her porkies? I'll finish and see what happens next. Almost. I can't resist pointing out that when she says > I also come from a police family so my > experience has been seen from BOTH sides (my caps) I'm intrigued to know what that "both" means. _Both_ sides? Cops and robbers. Caring CROOK, as I guessed. Jack This is STILL a distraction from what matters. Jack -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Graham Young Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 6:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! Karen, I'm not quite sure that I understand all of your last post, but underlying it seems to be an acceptance that the way that our society is organised now with respect to private property is better than it was. If that is the case, would you agree that our current system is more moral? Would you also agree that taking something that belongs to someone else is wrong? With respect to your last comment, if I were living on a sacred site and an aboriginal group had the right to obtain the land from me, then yes, I would go, just as I would if it was required for road purposes, for example. But I would expect to be compensated for the loss of it, and it would probably only occur in circumstances where there was government legislation to back it. That is the point of my example. While there is evidence that colonial administrations actually believed aborigines to have property rights these were never respected. The land was appropriated without the thought that they should receive any monetary payment at all. And I want to reiterate that this is not a matter of ancient history. The freeholding of leases without compensation to the holders of native title was part of the theft of this country and it occurred until quite recently. Now I accept that a large number of the people who settled this land thought that they weren't doing anything wrong. But I
RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
I also come from a police family so my experience has been seen from both sides. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 12:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? Since you know the date this came into effect so well, does this mean that your are with the police? Trudy Karen Crook wrote: > > For those who don't know, these powers were actually introduced on April 6 > 1999 - so they have already been in use for quite some time. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > Sent: Saturday, 18 March 2000 5:36 PM > To: RecOzNet2 > Subject: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police > State? > > Forwarded from Christine Howes: > > ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? > > ATSIC has joined civil liberties groups and Queensland's Anti > Discrimination > Commissioner in warning of a massive increase in arbitrary and > unappealable > police powers, including controversial new "move on" provisions. > > ATSIC Commissioner for Brisbane Patricia Thompson, today called for > Premier > Peter Beattie to suspend the passage of the bill through State > Parliament > to allow for adequate parliamentary and public scrutiny. > > "The Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill contains a massive increase > in > arbitrary police powers, but it has had almost no parliamentary or > public > scrutiny," Commissioner Thompson said. > > "The provisions of the bill are an unprecedented assault on the basic > rights > and liberties of all Queenslanders. > > "Alarm bells should be ringing for every member of the Queensland > Parliament over many aspects this legislation, not just the 'move on' > provisions. > > "Yet there has hardly been a murmur from politicians or the mainstream > media > over this. > > "There clearly needs to be a lot more public and parliamentary scrutiny > of > these measures unless the Government is prepared to wear the odium of > Queensland being portrayed as a police state." > > -- > * > Make the Hunger Site your homepage! > http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html > * > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at > http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the > body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without > permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and > research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed > further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ > http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ > > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.a
RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
Am I? Then I'll be happy to send you a copy of the internal police magazine that it was written in. Then you can tell the police Superintendent and his committee who have worked on the implementation that he's been doing nothing for the last year. Give me your address and you'll have it by the end of this week. The magazine isn't on-line unfortunately. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Graham Young Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 12:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? Karen, As in so much of what you have been writing you are dead wrong. In fact I am beginning to think you are just trying to get all of us going. How is it that you can just sit down and type this sort of nonsense into the computer when any of us can breeze across to the Queensland Parliament site and at http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au:81/D:/data/isysdbs/han/2000.pdf/000316DY.PD F#xml=http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au:81/ISYSquery/IRL251B.tmp/6/hilite in the online version of the Hansard find that the bill you claim was proclaimed on April 6, 1999 is in committee at the third reading stage?! Graham Young - Original Message - From: Karen Crook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 8:19 AM Subject: RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? > For those who don't know, these powers were actually introduced on April 6 > 1999 - so they have already been in use for quite some time. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > Sent: Saturday, 18 March 2000 5:36 PM > To: RecOzNet2 > Subject: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police > State? > > > Forwarded from Christine Howes: > > ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? > > > ATSIC has joined civil liberties groups and Queensland's Anti > Discrimination > Commissioner in warning of a massive increase in arbitrary and > unappealable > police powers, including controversial new "move on" provisions. > > ATSIC Commissioner for Brisbane Patricia Thompson, today called for > Premier > Peter Beattie to suspend the passage of the bill through State > Parliament > to allow for adequate parliamentary and public scrutiny. > > "The Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill contains a massive increase > in > arbitrary police powers, but it has had almost no parliamentary or > public > scrutiny," Commissioner Thompson said. > > "The provisions of the bill are an unprecedented assault on the basic > rights > and liberties of all Queenslanders. > > "Alarm bells should be ringing for every member of the Queensland > Parliament over many aspects this legislation, not just the 'move on' > provisions. > > "Yet there has hardly been a murmur from politicians or the mainstream > media > over this. > > "There clearly needs to be a lot more public and parliamentary scrutiny > of > these measures unless the Government is prepared to wear the odium of > Queensland being portrayed as a police state." > > > -- > * > Make the Hunger Site your homepage! > http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html > * > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at > http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the > body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without > permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and > research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed > further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ > http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ > > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ > --
RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
Yes -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2000 12:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? Since you know the date this came into effect so well, does this mean that your are with the police? Trudy Karen Crook wrote: > > For those who don't know, these powers were actually introduced on April 6 > 1999 - so they have already been in use for quite some time. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > Sent: Saturday, 18 March 2000 5:36 PM > To: RecOzNet2 > Subject: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police > State? > > Forwarded from Christine Howes: > > ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? > > ATSIC has joined civil liberties groups and Queensland's Anti > Discrimination > Commissioner in warning of a massive increase in arbitrary and > unappealable > police powers, including controversial new "move on" provisions. > > ATSIC Commissioner for Brisbane Patricia Thompson, today called for > Premier > Peter Beattie to suspend the passage of the bill through State > Parliament > to allow for adequate parliamentary and public scrutiny. > > "The Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill contains a massive increase > in > arbitrary police powers, but it has had almost no parliamentary or > public > scrutiny," Commissioner Thompson said. > > "The provisions of the bill are an unprecedented assault on the basic > rights > and liberties of all Queenslanders. > > "Alarm bells should be ringing for every member of the Queensland > Parliament over many aspects this legislation, not just the 'move on' > provisions. > > "Yet there has hardly been a murmur from politicians or the mainstream > media > over this. > > "There clearly needs to be a lot more public and parliamentary scrutiny > of > these measures unless the Government is prepared to wear the odium of > Queensland being portrayed as a police state." > > -- > * > Make the Hunger Site your homepage! > http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html > * > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at > http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the > body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without > permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and > research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed > further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ > http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ > > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe f
Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame!!!!!
Karen, I'm not quite sure that I understand all of your last post, but underlying it seems to be an acceptance that the way that our society is organised now with respect to private property is better than it was. If that is the case, would you agree that our current system is more moral? Would you also agree that taking something that belongs to someone else is wrong? With respect to your last comment, if I were living on a sacred site and an aboriginal group had the right to obtain the land from me, then yes, I would go, just as I would if it was required for road purposes, for example. But I would expect to be compensated for the loss of it, and it would probably only occur in circumstances where there was government legislation to back it. That is the point of my example. While there is evidence that colonial administrations actually believed aborigines to have property rights these were never respected. The land was appropriated without the thought that they should receive any monetary payment at all. And I want to reiterate that this is not a matter of ancient history. The freeholding of leases without compensation to the holders of native title was part of the theft of this country and it occurred until quite recently. Now I accept that a large number of the people who settled this land thought that they weren't doing anything wrong. But I don't accept that right and wrong are relative concepts. "Thou shalt not steal" is a precept about 4,000 years old now, but just because everyone else is stealing, that doesn't justify me in doing the same thing. So I don't have a problem with looking back and saying that what was done was wrong. I also don't have a problem with apologising for it, not because I feel any personal guilt, but because this signifies that I accept and understand that it was wrong. I also don't have a problem with us as a society compensating the original inhabitants for the loss they have suffered in some way. Graham Young - Original Message - From: Karen Crook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 9:53 PM Subject: RE: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! > Well it's not mine so no objection! > > See in this day and age though, things are a lot more developed and > ownership is now bought. That was not my law or decision. > > Things are very different these days and I think we should be taking this > into account that we have moved on to different practices and procedures via > real estate. We are no longer practicing old time laws - we have become a > civilised society where things are very business-like. You cannot please the > masses so there is always going to be someone unhappy with the decisions. > > Situation reversed: Would you move from your brand new house if someone > suddenly came around and said you were sitting on a sacred site > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Graham Young > Sent: Thursday, 16 March 2000 10:51 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! > > > So as we are all visitors to this land and there should be none of this > "this is mine and you took it away," (according to you) I assume you would > have no objection to me just moving into your house and pushing you off > because as visitors the only right that we have to property is the strength > of our own right arm. > > Graham > > - Original Message - > From: Karen Crook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 7:31 PM > Subject: RE: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! > > > > If you're going to go back, why not go back all the way. Eventually, the > > land was owned by no one, except the dinasours! > > > > As far as I am concerned we are all visitors to this land and there should > > be none of this "this is mine and you took it away." > > > > Here's a thought for you: How do we not know that many years ago the > > Aboriginals were in fact the second or third group of people to live on > this > > land? How do we not know that a group of them didn't fight someone else > for > > it and claimed it as their own? > > Unfortunately, it's one of those stories that could keep going back and > back > > and we'll never know who originally started this amazing country of our. > > Nobody has a real answer for this because nobody knows. > > So how about we all just accept that we are here and that we should go > > forward? > > > > I read the newspapers too - I have too - and I have formed my own > opinions. > > We all form them from something we believe in don't we? > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > > Sent: Tuesday, 14 March 2000 9:08 AM > > To: RecOzNet2 > > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! > > > > > > I am forwarding Graham Young's message which bounced because it was too > > long. Please, eve
Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
Karen, As in so much of what you have been writing you are dead wrong. In fact I am beginning to think you are just trying to get all of us going. How is it that you can just sit down and type this sort of nonsense into the computer when any of us can breeze across to the Queensland Parliament site and at http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au:81/D:/data/isysdbs/han/2000.pdf/000316DY.PD F#xml=http://www.parliament.qld.gov.au:81/ISYSquery/IRL251B.tmp/6/hilite in the online version of the Hansard find that the bill you claim was proclaimed on April 6, 1999 is in committee at the third reading stage?! Graham Young - Original Message - From: Karen Crook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 8:19 AM Subject: RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? > For those who don't know, these powers were actually introduced on April 6 > 1999 - so they have already been in use for quite some time. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > Sent: Saturday, 18 March 2000 5:36 PM > To: RecOzNet2 > Subject: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police > State? > > > Forwarded from Christine Howes: > > ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? > > > ATSIC has joined civil liberties groups and Queensland's Anti > Discrimination > Commissioner in warning of a massive increase in arbitrary and > unappealable > police powers, including controversial new "move on" provisions. > > ATSIC Commissioner for Brisbane Patricia Thompson, today called for > Premier > Peter Beattie to suspend the passage of the bill through State > Parliament > to allow for adequate parliamentary and public scrutiny. > > "The Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill contains a massive increase > in > arbitrary police powers, but it has had almost no parliamentary or > public > scrutiny," Commissioner Thompson said. > > "The provisions of the bill are an unprecedented assault on the basic > rights > and liberties of all Queenslanders. > > "Alarm bells should be ringing for every member of the Queensland > Parliament over many aspects this legislation, not just the 'move on' > provisions. > > "Yet there has hardly been a murmur from politicians or the mainstream > media > over this. > > "There clearly needs to be a lot more public and parliamentary scrutiny > of > these measures unless the Government is prepared to wear the odium of > Queensland being portrayed as a police state." > > > -- > * > Make the Hunger Site your homepage! > http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html > * > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at > http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the > body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without > permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and > research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed > further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ > http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ > > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ > --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without per
Re: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
Since you know the date this came into effect so well, does this mean that your are with the police? Trudy Karen Crook wrote: > > For those who don't know, these powers were actually introduced on April 6 > 1999 - so they have already been in use for quite some time. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray > Sent: Saturday, 18 March 2000 5:36 PM > To: RecOzNet2 > Subject: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police > State? > > Forwarded from Christine Howes: > > ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? > > ATSIC has joined civil liberties groups and Queensland's Anti > Discrimination > Commissioner in warning of a massive increase in arbitrary and > unappealable > police powers, including controversial new "move on" provisions. > > ATSIC Commissioner for Brisbane Patricia Thompson, today called for > Premier > Peter Beattie to suspend the passage of the bill through State > Parliament > to allow for adequate parliamentary and public scrutiny. > > "The Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill contains a massive increase > in > arbitrary police powers, but it has had almost no parliamentary or > public > scrutiny," Commissioner Thompson said. > > "The provisions of the bill are an unprecedented assault on the basic > rights > and liberties of all Queenslanders. > > "Alarm bells should be ringing for every member of the Queensland > Parliament over many aspects this legislation, not just the 'move on' > provisions. > > "Yet there has hardly been a murmur from politicians or the mainstream > media > over this. > > "There clearly needs to be a lot more public and parliamentary scrutiny > of > these measures unless the Government is prepared to wear the odium of > Queensland being portrayed as a police state." > > -- > * > Make the Hunger Site your homepage! > http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html > * > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at > http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the > body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without > permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and > research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed > further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ > http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ > > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at >http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission >from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under >the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further >without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ >http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] Personal attacks
No, Susanne, that is what made me decide to contact Laurie. It was her expressed intention to use personal attack (rather than attack a point of view) as a way to further the cause of Indigenous Australians and her intention to do so on the list whenever she felt justified that made me decide to remove her. Trudy webweave wrote: > > trudy - was this what made u decide to remove laurie? > > 'Karen, until you are able to comprehend that Indigenous culture has as much > right to recognition as Invader culture you will never be able to examine > the issues sensibly, and will continue on your racist voyage of ignorance.' > > susanne martain > > --- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at >http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body > of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission >from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under >the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further >without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ >http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ -- _ Truth is a pathless land. --- Krishnamurti - --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] Personal attacks
trudy - was this what made u decide to remove laurie? 'Karen, until you are able to comprehend that Indigenous culture has as much right to recognition as Invader culture you will never be able to examine the issues sensibly, and will continue on your racist voyage of ignorance.' susanne martain --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
RE: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State?
For those who don't know, these powers were actually introduced on April 6 1999 - so they have already been in use for quite some time. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray Sent: Saturday, 18 March 2000 5:36 PM To: RecOzNet2 Subject: [recoznet2] [fwd] ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? Forwarded from Christine Howes: ATSIC Media Release: Queensland: The Police State? ATSIC has joined civil liberties groups and Queensland's Anti Discrimination Commissioner in warning of a massive increase in arbitrary and unappealable police powers, including controversial new "move on" provisions. ATSIC Commissioner for Brisbane Patricia Thompson, today called for Premier Peter Beattie to suspend the passage of the bill through State Parliament to allow for adequate parliamentary and public scrutiny. "The Police Powers and Responsibilities Bill contains a massive increase in arbitrary police powers, but it has had almost no parliamentary or public scrutiny," Commissioner Thompson said. "The provisions of the bill are an unprecedented assault on the basic rights and liberties of all Queenslanders. "Alarm bells should be ringing for every member of the Queensland Parliament over many aspects this legislation, not just the 'move on' provisions. "Yet there has hardly been a murmur from politicians or the mainstream media over this. "There clearly needs to be a lot more public and parliamentary scrutiny of these measures unless the Government is prepared to wear the odium of Queensland being portrayed as a police state." -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/ --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] A must see Moir cartoon!
http://www.smh.com.au/news/0003/18/html/cartoon.html I hope they prove this cartoon wrong but I'm not holding my breath! Trudy -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Re: Removal
Dear Trudy, Thankyou for your wisdom. This a discussion list not a slanging match. Regards Judi --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
[recoznet2] Personal attacks
I had hoped not to have to enforce the rules quite so quickly but after some discussion with Laurie off-list, and her avowal not to stop attacking anyone she perceives as a racist, I have removed her from Recoznet2. I take no pleasure in doing this but I don't want the list to degenerate into name calling and personal attacks. This is completely unnecessary to get one's point across. Trudy -- * Make the Hunger Site your homepage! http://www.thehungersite.com/index.html * --- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words:unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/recoznet2%40paradigm4.com.au/
Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame!!!!!
-Original Message- From: Karen Crook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Saturday, March 18, 2000 2:50 PM Subject: RE: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! >My racist voyage of ignorance??? > >How dare you call me a racist! This is obviously the way you treat people >who have a different opinion to yourselves. >You do not know me from a bar of soap. You think you know me from a few >e-mails?! Don't personally attack me for my own opinions because by what you >have just said lowers yourself and that makes YOU ignorant. >All I have been doing is listening to everyone's opinions and putting >forward some questions and my own thoughts. Have I personally attacked you >or insulted you? No, because I at least respect the fact that everyone has >an opinion and we are all very different. > >How quick you are to judge me over some e-mails. And you get angry at people >for doing the same thing about Aboriginal people!?!?!?!?! >Those who throw stones.. Karen, I have presented my opinion having read many of your posts. In my opinion you and perhaps a majority of Australians are sharing the same racist voyage of ignorance. That ,Karen, is my opinion . Laurie. > > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Laurie Forde >Sent: Saturday, 18 March 2000 10:09 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! > > > >-Original Message- >From: Karen Crook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Date: Friday, March 17, 2000 10:55 PM >Subject: RE: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! > > >>Well it's not mine so no objection! >> >>See in this day and age though, things are a lot more developed and > >>ownership is now bought. That was not my law or decision. > >See, in those days though there was 4 years of development and >understanding of land usage. > >Karen, until you are able to comprehend that Indigenous culture has as much >right to recognition as Invader culture you will never be able to examine >the issues sensibly, and will continue on your racist voyage of ignorance. > >Laurie. > > >> >>Things are very different these days and I think we should be taking this >>into account that we have moved on to different practices and procedures >via >>real estate. We are no longer practicing old time laws - we have become a >>civilised society where things are very business-like. You cannot please >the >>masses so there is always going to be someone unhappy with the decisions. >> >>Situation reversed: Would you move from your brand new house if someone >>suddenly came around and said you were sitting on a sacred site >> >>-Original Message- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Graham Young >>Sent: Thursday, 16 March 2000 10:51 PM >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Subject: Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! >> >> >>So as we are all visitors to this land and there should be none of this >>"this is mine and you took it away," (according to you) I assume you would >>have no objection to me just moving into your house and pushing you off >>because as visitors the only right that we have to property is the strength >>of our own right arm. >> >>Graham >> >>- Original Message - >>From: Karen Crook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 7:31 PM >>Subject: RE: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! >> >> >>> If you're going to go back, why not go back all the way. Eventually, the >>> land was owned by no one, except the dinasours! >>> >>> As far as I am concerned we are all visitors to this land and there >should >>> be none of this "this is mine and you took it away." >>> >>> Here's a thought for you: How do we not know that many years ago the >>> Aboriginals were in fact the second or third group of people to live on >>this >>> land? How do we not know that a group of them didn't fight someone else >>for >>> it and claimed it as their own? >>> Unfortunately, it's one of those stories that could keep going back and >>back >>> and we'll never know who originally started this amazing country of our. >>> Nobody has a real answer for this because nobody knows. >>> So how about we all just accept that we are here and that we should go >>> forward? >>> >>> I read the newspapers too - I have too - and I have formed my own >>opinions. >>> We all form them from something we believe in don't we? >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Trudy and Rod Bray >>> Sent: Tuesday, 14 March 2000 9:08 AM >>> To: RecOzNet2 >>> Subject: Re: [recoznet2] has the man no shame! >>> >>> >>> I am forwarding Graham Young's message which bounced because it was too >>> long. Please, everyone remember to remove the older parts of messages >>> that are not needed for clarity. >>> >>> Trudy >>> ** >>> Karen, >>
