RE: Minimal install RH8?

[Rodolfo J. Paiz]

At 12:01 10/7/2003, you wrote:
Wouldn't it be just as easy for them to create yet another option called
"bare minimum" or "bare bones" or something like that which includes
only the packages required to have a bootable system? From there the
user could add whatever packages they wanted.
It is probably that easy... but will probably generate a ton of support 
calls from users who select it without really knowing what it is and end up 
just staring at a bash prompt. 

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RE: Minimal install RH8?

[Chris W. Parker]

Rodolfo J. Paiz 
on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 10:51 AM said:

> It comes down to the fact that Red Hat has to make the installation
> easy for millions of users and they do their best to make a
> generally-pleasing approximation of "minimal." Then they leave each
> user the option to check or uncheck individual packages, for such
> peopel as you and me who want more control. 

Wouldn't it be just as easy for them to create yet another option called
"bare minimum" or "bare bones" or something like that which includes
only the packages required to have a bootable system? From there the
user could add whatever packages they wanted.

I don't know if that's as easy as it sounds but I thought I'd ask.



Chris.


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Re: Minimal install RH8?

[Rodolfo J. Paiz]

At 11:07 10/7/2003, you wrote:
OK, I have managed to install only 365 megs directly with RH8 
distribution. That is without perl,sendmail, openssl, openssh and some 
other garbage but with gcc and kernel headers. After I have succesfully 
copiled and installed latest versions of perl, openssl, php, httpd. I 
think that the rest what I need it won't be a problem.
BTW I needed just to determine all the packages I need half an hour after 
selecting Minimal and then manually remove or add additional packages.
So looks like there is option for even less than what they say at RH. Why 
they don't make this option? It would sure make life easier not only me 
but also some others.
Minimal for me _always_ includes openssl, openssh, and perl for example 
since I prefer to manage everything with RPM. It comes down to the fact 
that Red Hat has to make the installation easy for millions of users and 
they do their best to make a generally-pleasing approximation of "minimal." 
Then they leave each user the option to check or uncheck individual 
packages, for such peopel as you and me who want more control.

I suggest you look at kickstart as a way to automate your installs to put 
only the packages you want onto a computer.

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Re: Minimal install RH8?

[Sasa Stupar]

Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote:
At 03:11 10/5/2003, you wrote:

Anyway I'll try to make minimum with custom setup from RH8 and with 
ignoring dependiences. Will see how it works.


Ignoring dependencies is not usually a good idea. A product "depends" on 
another for a reason usually...


OK, I have managed to install only 365 megs directly with RH8 
distribution. That is without perl,sendmail, openssl, openssh and some 
other garbage but with gcc and kernel headers. After I have succesfully 
copiled and installed latest versions of perl, openssl, php, httpd. I 
think that the rest what I need it won't be a problem.
BTW I needed just to determine all the packages I need half an hour 
after selecting Minimal and then manually remove or add additional packages.
So looks like there is option for even less than what they say at RH. 
Why they don't make this option? It would sure make life easier not only 
me but also some others.

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Re: Minimal install RH8?

[Rodolfo J. Paiz]

At 03:11 10/5/2003, you wrote:
Anyway I'll try to make minimum with custom setup from RH8 and with 
ignoring dependiences. Will see how it works.
Ignoring dependencies is not usually a good idea. A product "depends" on 
another for a reason usually...

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Re: Minimal install RH8?

[Sasa Stupar]

Michael Fratoni wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Sunday 05 October 2003 03:25 am, Sasa Stupar wrote:

 > Did you even look at the RULE page that someone suggested to you?
 > That
is exactly what RULE does: allow you to install a Red Hat Linux
system into older hardware, or any hardware with less memory (down to
6MB RAM in some cases), and install a much smaller set of packages
than Anaconda usually selects. It is still Red Hat Linux, though.
Yes I have even tested it and strange thing happened. I have selected
NO sendmail and NO ssh  and some other stuff but they were installed
regardless of my choise. So this looks like normal minimal install from
RH8. In fact it is the same install after I have checked the size on
the disk it is exactly the same 476 megs. Looks like that dependieces
didn't let to install without some files which I didn't want to.


The base install should take less than 200 megs. You may have selected 
other package groups which require sendmail or ssh. Would you mind 
sending me a copy of /root/scripts/install_log offlist?

- -- 
- -Michael

pgp key:  http://www.tuxfan.homeip.net:8080/gpgkey.txt
Red Hat Linux 7.{2,3}|8.0|9 in 8M of RAM: http://www.rule-project.org/en/
- --
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Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
iD8DBQE/f9xun/07WoAb/SsRAnT7AJ96QRosRIpSVciEkvFmvePk3iX6cQCdHdcj
A+cBXmibDCsFeCF86nDL8ds=
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When I select NO for sendmail it responds "Bad number" and also for ssh.
I can't give you a copy becasue I have allready erase it. The packages I 
have select were nettools, iptables.
But what I have seen it installs also ftp client, man pages etc.
Anyway I'll try to make minimum with custom setup from RH8 and with 
ignoring dependiences. Will see how it works.

Sasa

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Re: Minimal install RH8?

[Michael Fratoni]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Sunday 05 October 2003 03:25 am, Sasa Stupar wrote:
>   > Did you even look at the RULE page that someone suggested to you?
>   > That
> >
> > is exactly what RULE does: allow you to install a Red Hat Linux
> > system into older hardware, or any hardware with less memory (down to
> > 6MB RAM in some cases), and install a much smaller set of packages
> > than Anaconda usually selects. It is still Red Hat Linux, though.
>
> Yes I have even tested it and strange thing happened. I have selected
> NO sendmail and NO ssh  and some other stuff but they were installed
> regardless of my choise. So this looks like normal minimal install from
> RH8. In fact it is the same install after I have checked the size on
> the disk it is exactly the same 476 megs. Looks like that dependieces
> didn't let to install without some files which I didn't want to.

The base install should take less than 200 megs. You may have selected 
other package groups which require sendmail or ssh. Would you mind 
sending me a copy of /root/scripts/install_log offlist?

- -- 
- -Michael

pgp key:  http://www.tuxfan.homeip.net:8080/gpgkey.txt
Red Hat Linux 7.{2,3}|8.0|9 in 8M of RAM: http://www.rule-project.org/en/
- --
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Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/f9xun/07WoAb/SsRAnT7AJ96QRosRIpSVciEkvFmvePk3iX6cQCdHdcj
A+cBXmibDCsFeCF86nDL8ds=
=iXFB
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: Minimal install RH8?

[Sasa Stupar]

 > Did you even look at the RULE page that someone suggested to you? That
is exactly what RULE does: allow you to install a Red Hat Linux system 
into older hardware, or any hardware with less memory (down to 6MB RAM 
in some cases), and install a much smaller set of packages than Anaconda 
usually selects. It is still Red Hat Linux, though.


Yes I have even tested it and strange thing happened. I have selected NO 
sendmail and NO ssh  and some other stuff but they were installed 
regardless of my choise. So this looks like normal minimal install from 
RH8. In fact it is the same install after I have checked the size on the 
disk it is exactly the same 476 megs. Looks like that dependieces didn't 
let to install without some files which I didn't want to.

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Re: Minimal install RH8?

[Rodolfo J. Paiz]

At 15:13 10/4/2003, you wrote:
On Sat, Oct 04, 2003 at 03:04:08PM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote:
> Did you even look at the RULE page that someone suggested to you? That is
> exactly what RULE does: allow you to install a Red Hat Linux system into
> older hardware, or any hardware with less memory (down to 6MB RAM in some
> cases), and install a much smaller set of packages than Anaconda usually
> selects. It is still Red Hat Linux, though.
I would argue that this is *NOT* "Red Hat Linux".  It may certainly look
like it, but I don't think Red Hat would agree that a system built with
some arbitrary 3rd party installer would qualify as Red Hat Linux.
Yes, I'm being picky, but let's respect the trademarks when we can.
Please see the middle paragraph in
http://www.redhat.com/about/corporate/trademark/guidelines/page5.html
I don't think you're being picky... I don't mind that. However, all the 
installer does is allow you to get the packages on disk. All packages 
(every single one of them) which get put on disk are Red Hat Linux 
packages, and there is not a single binary bit of difference between a 
system installed with Anaconda and another installed with Miniconda or 
Slinky when you're done.

RULE simply helps people install RHL with a smaller footprint, or into a 
smaller box with less memory. While RULE cannot and should not ever call 
itself "Red Hat Linux" or appropriate the "Red Hat" trademark in any way 
(and it doesn't), the stuff that ends up installed on my system is so far 
100% Red Hat Linux packages.

I guess I don't see the difference... RULE is not abusing a trademark, just 
providing a complementary product.

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Re: Minimal install RH8?

[Ed Wilts]

On Sat, Oct 04, 2003 at 03:04:08PM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote:
> Did you even look at the RULE page that someone suggested to you? That is 
> exactly what RULE does: allow you to install a Red Hat Linux system into 
> older hardware, or any hardware with less memory (down to 6MB RAM in some 
> cases), and install a much smaller set of packages than Anaconda usually 
> selects. It is still Red Hat Linux, though.

I would argue that this is *NOT* "Red Hat Linux".  It may certainly look
like it, but I don't think Red Hat would agree that a system built with
some arbitrary 3rd party installer would qualify as Red Hat Linux.

Yes, I'm being picky, but let's respect the trademarks when we can.
Please see the middle paragraph in
http://www.redhat.com/about/corporate/trademark/guidelines/page5.html

-- 
Ed Wilts, Mounds View, MN, USA
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Member #1, Red Hat Community Ambassador Program


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Re: Minimal install RH8?

[Rodolfo J. Paiz]

At 11:29 10/4/2003, you wrote:
L. K. Pierce wrote:
On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 11:17, R Sánchez wrote:

Wasn't there some type of distro proyect that was precisely a RedHat
adaptation for minimal systems?
Yes, it's called RULE.  http://www.rule-project.org
Yes, that's nice but I would like that guys from Redhat make a minimal 
instal only with basic linux system (I mean without sendmail, ssh but only 
needed system to boot) and the files for compiling addition software. This 
would be a real minimal system and you can choose what addition software 
you want to install. Now you disable one thing and you allready have 
dependecies problem.
Did you even look at the RULE page that someone suggested to you? That is 
exactly what RULE does: allow you to install a Red Hat Linux system into 
older hardware, or any hardware with less memory (down to 6MB RAM in some 
cases), and install a much smaller set of packages than Anaconda usually 
selects. It is still Red Hat Linux, though.

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Re: Minimal install RH8?

[Sasa Stupar]

L. K. Pierce wrote:
On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 11:17, R Sánchez wrote:

Wasn't there some type of distro proyect that was precisely a RedHat
adaptation for minimal systems?
Yes, it's called RULE.  http://www.rule-project.org


Yes, that's nice but I would like that guys from Redhat make a minimal 
instal only with basic linux system (I mean without sendmail, ssh but 
only needed system to boot) and the files for compiling addition 
software. This would be a real minimal system and you can choose what 
addition software you want to install. Now you disable one thing and you 
allready have dependecies problem.
This is mainly becose Redhat is not realy "up2date" with current 
versions of the bunch of software bundled on distribution.

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Re: Minimal install RH8?

[L. K. Pierce]

On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 11:17, R Sánchez wrote:
> Wasn't there some type of distro proyect that was precisely a RedHat
> adaptation for minimal systems?
> 
Yes, it's called RULE.  http://www.rule-project.org


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Re: Minimal install RH8?

[R Sánchez]

Wasn't there some type of distro proyect that was precisely a RedHat
adaptation for minimal systems?

I saw somthing of the like on the web once. Try some googleing!

Reven

- Original Message - 
From: "Jason Staudenmayer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 4:16 PM
Subject: RE: Minimal install RH8?


| You'll need gcc, kernel headers and some dev libs, and some other
packages.
|
| -Original Message-
| From: Sasa Stupar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 10:16 AM
| To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| Subject: Minimal install RH8?
|
|
| Hi!
|
| I am thinking of making a fresh install of RH8 with minimal option (476
| megs). Then I myself to compile and install PHP, Apache2, Squid, Samba,
| Wu-ftp.
| The question is if I will be able to compile all this with the software
| which is allready installed with this minimal instalation or I will need
| some additional software?
|
| Sasa


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RE: Minimal install RH8?

[Jason Staudenmayer]

You'll need gcc, kernel headers and some dev libs, and some other packages.

-Original Message-
From: Sasa Stupar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 10:16 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Minimal install RH8?


Hi!

I am thinking of making a fresh install of RH8 with minimal option (476 
megs). Then I myself to compile and install PHP, Apache2, Squid, Samba, 
Wu-ftp.
The question is if I will be able to compile all this with the software 
which is allready installed with this minimal instalation or I will need 
some additional software?

Sasa


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