Re: beta5 or rc1
At Monday 12 November 2007 08:45, you wrote: So do I understand it correctly that you think that Plasma will have sorted out all remaining issues that are left for an RC1 only until next wednesday? Sounds good to me. wednesday the 21st? the showstopers will be, yes. Would it be an idea to do a beta5 this week and a rc1 two weeks later? Toma ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
Hi Torsten, On Monday 12. November 2007 08:25:18 Torsten Rahn wrote: while we do have some pretty minor showstoppers. Well, last time I checked the default style didn't support QToolBox yet. This basically rendered Marble unusable as people are not able to make use of the interface. Did we make oxygen (the style) a showstopper? I thought we'd look at the quality when nearing a release and just ship with plastique as default if oxygen was not good enough. We don't want to repeat the problem we had in KDE3.0 ;) Next to that; you should add your found bugs (or, missing feature ;) to http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Oxygen/StyleWinDec On the other hand the QToolBox issue I mentioned is certainly something that is a showstopper for sure that can't get removed. You can use the default Qt style :) -- Thomas Zander signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
On 12.11.07 12:22:11, Thomas Zander wrote: Hi Torsten, On Monday 12. November 2007 08:25:18 Torsten Rahn wrote: while we do have some pretty minor showstoppers. Well, last time I checked the default style didn't support QToolBox yet. This basically rendered Marble unusable as people are not able to make use of the interface. Did we make oxygen (the style) a showstopper? I thought we'd look at the quality when nearing a release and just ship with plastique as default if oxygen was not good enough. In the meantime oxygen was made the default in kdelibs, appparently #oxygen agreed that would be a good idea. Maybe that should be changed back... Next to that; you should add your found bugs (or, missing feature ;) to http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Oxygen/StyleWinDec I think the known problems are already there, the problem is getting them fixed ;) Andreas -- Slow day. Practice crawling. ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
On Monday 12 November 2007, Thomas Zander wrote: Next to that; you should add your found bugs (or, missing feature ;) to http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Oxygen/StyleWinDec Interesting how a Wiki page turns into a bug tracker. Why isn't Bugzilla used for that? -- Cornelius Schumacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
On Monday 12. November 2007 13:15:51 Cornelius Schumacher wrote: Next to that; you should add your found bugs (or, missing feature ;) to http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Oxygen/StyleWinDec Interesting how a Wiki page turns into a bug tracker. Why isn't Bugzilla used for that? Apart from the don't ask me, ask the devs! I can speculate that there is no 'application' section for it on bugs and this seemed easier then request a new one. Or maybe it never crossed their minds. Donno. -- Thomas Zander signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: Move most of kdesupport to extragear
On Saturday 10 November 2007, Tom Albers wrote: As a conclusion to the thread this week I want to propose to move everything except kdewin32 to extragear/libs. I don`t like this idea because: a) the stuff in kdesupport does not depend on KDE, but rather are independent projects that KDE depends on and that are not developed elsewhere. b) stuff in extragear/libs can depend on KDE and is for applications in extragear depending on them. it is not for KDE to depend on it. Please, make developers not related to the actual library/application in kdesupport just use the latest recommended stable release together with KDE. this makes it a lot easier for distributions to find a working point of the code base. Greetings, Dirk ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
On Saturday 10 November 2007, Tom Albers wrote: Based on the beta goals page, we are getting closer to a release candidate but not quite ready yet. So I would like to propose to insert a beta5. for the platform or the desktop release? or are you talking about removing the platform release? Thanks, Dirk ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: Bringing ebn krazy back
On Sunday 11 November 2007, Albert Astals Cid wrote: Can we have it back already? I`m not opposed to re-enabling it, as long as the number of checks that are enabled are important to us (e.g. the licensing check). I do not want another round of FALSE/TRUE renames and other sort of stuff hitting trunk right now. BTW, I`m not sure if I`m allowed to leak it yet, but Tom Albers has made a licensing webpage, which is pretty nice: http://toma.kovoks.nl/kde I like it and it is much better than the EBN views (at least what I saw last time of it). Greetings, Dirk ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
On Monday 12. November 2007 13:48:19 Sebastian Kügler wrote: That's really 'only' two showstoppers left, I think the point is that Torsten noted that QToolBox is not supported. Besides that tabbed panes seem to not be supported (according to the page). I'm sure you agree that those are show stoppers. No doubt there is great progress. Just wanted to point out why I replied to Torstens mail :) -- Thomas Zander signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
On 12.11.07 13:48:19, Sebastian Kügler wrote: On Monday 12 November 2007 13:01:42 Andreas Pakulat wrote: Did we make oxygen (the style) a showstopper? I thought we'd look at the quality when nearing a release and just ship with plastique as default if oxygen was not good enough. In the meantime oxygen was made the default in kdelibs, appparently #oxygen agreed that would be a good idea. Maybe that should be changed back... Next to that; you should add your found bugs (or, missing feature ;) to http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Oxygen/StyleWinDec I think the known problems are already there, the problem is getting them fixed To me it looks like all problems have been taken care of, but this one. Check the page, in the known bugs section - one showstopper attributed to Qt (I think a patch is already in qt-copy), - one showstopper issue pending review of a patch by the KHTML team - one issue is a pending review of color roles compliance - one is the QToolBox issue That's really 'only' two showstoppers left, I call this great progress. It'd be stupid if we switched back to plastique. Oxygen is making excellent progress, and it already feels much better than plastik in day-to-day usage. You're overlooking that there are quite some incoming bugs that have no yet been categorized. Also I'd call vertical tabs and vertical titles in dockwidgets a showstopper as well. The first means you don't know where one tab starts and another ends. The second makes it impossible to read the dockwidget title. Apart from that the oxygen windeco (AFAIK) doesn't adhere to the kde color scheme completely (it ignores the titlebar color that is set). There's a bugreport for that, but I can't find it right now. And it hasn't been the default style in any of the betas KDE released, which means less testing. Oxygen should be in a releasable state right now, simply because its part of the KDE platform and as far as I can see its not. Andreas PS: The work that the two or three people working on Oxygen (especially the KStyle) managed to do in the last 3 months is amazing. I'm not saying they didn't do enough, I'm saying the time wasn't enough for the complete rewrite that had to happen. -- Everything will be just tickety-boo today. ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
On 12.11.07 14:28:42, Sebastian Kügler wrote: On Monday 12 November 2007 14:08:17 Thomas Zander wrote: On Monday 12. November 2007 13:48:19 Sebastian Kügler wrote: That's really 'only' two showstoppers left, I think the point is that Torsten noted that QToolBox is not supported. Besides that tabbed panes seem to not be supported (according to the page). I'm sure you agree that those are show stoppers. I only see west and east not being supported. Or I am getting you wrong. I have to re-check when I'm home but last time I had a look (already 3 weeks or so ago) the south tabs where drawn upside-down, i.e. looked like north-tabs that were just moved below the tabwidget... Andreas -- You will contract a rare disease. ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
Andreas Pakulat wrote: Apart from that the oxygen windeco (AFAIK) doesn't adhere to the kde color scheme completely (it ignores the titlebar color that is set). There's a bugreport for that, but I can't find it right now. http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=152030 -- Regards, Eike Hein, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
At Monday 12 November 2007 13:49, you wrote: On Saturday 10 November 2007, Tom Albers wrote: Based on the beta goals page, we are getting closer to a release candidate but not quite ready yet. So I would like to propose to insert a beta5. for the platform or the desktop release? or are you talking about removing the platform release? Desktop -- Tom Albers___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
On Monday 12. November 2007 15:18:49 Eike Hein wrote: Andreas Pakulat wrote: Apart from that the oxygen windeco (AFAIK) doesn't adhere to the kde color scheme completely (it ignores the titlebar color that is set). There's a bugreport for that, but I can't find it right now. http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=152030 That bug definitely is a showstopper. -- Thomas Zander signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
On Sun, Nov 11, 2007 at 11:56:53PM -0700, Aaron J. Seigo wrote: On Sunday 11 November 2007, Torsten Rahn wrote: Let's just do RC1 and get this thing out the door. I'm tired of watching the release date slip and we don't do anything for the project by allowing it to slip further. We _need_ to get a release out the door. Wrong attitude at this point of time. We are almost there and don't need to jump the gun (that's what you suggest). i think there's a happy middle ground (see bottom for that however) Let's carefully review whether all showstoppers for an RC1 have been solved. of course, our show stoppers themselves are somewhat funny (as in they smell funny ... ) since last time i looked we did no have anything about the keyboard shortcuts control panel not working at all (though this has had the side effect of getting me used to the kde defaults again ;) while we do have some pretty minor showstoppers. that said, in plasma: i'm dangerously close to having resizable and movable panels. they'll be done this week. multiple panels are there, xrandr works, xinerama works. taskbar and systray both need bugfixes; i wont get to working on those until next week, however. (i figure i only need 2 days to get the panel stuff done, which means it'll take a week ;). then it's the Desktop folder legacy support, event related bug fixes (e.g. dragging / moving icons), triaging the last feature patches (e.g. the hover buttons, which are there but a bit buggy atm) and the welcome applet. which reminds me, i'd like to remove ktip-the-application when the welcome applet is added, since it will show daily tips .. and without the annoying, work interupting window and without the overhead of another app starting. =) krush days are proving really good at catching regressions as they happen as well. those people hold my feet to the fire pretty good ;) If this is the case then I'm indeed all for releasing RC1. If this is not the case then we should either consider postponing tagging for a week or we should just go for releasing Beta5 instead. At this point of time it's clearly obvious that we don't need to fear that it will take eternally to get KDE4 out of the door. I think it would be helpful if the release dude would ask the people p.s. the release dude is deprecated now that we have a release team ;) but yeah, someone needs to do it. involved with the last few showstoppers when those showstoppers will be fixed. Based on that we should decide how to proceed. I remember that this was done for earlier releases. It helped to make people commit themselves to get the release out of the door soon while at the same time making sure that we'd adhere to our quality standards. this makes more sense to me: a ballance between well, let's just slip the date without putting any pressure on our work schedule and let's stick to the schedule regardless of what we've accomplished. right now i'm very concerned that right now we are letting our release dates slip far too easily. because we don't really ask what is actually possible, things drift. i've been as guilty of this as anyone. it has to stop. like, yesterday. ;) we should really strive to make a december release if at all possible (for so many reasons which we've gone over so many times now), and that may well mean a big final push. +2 for me, as this is basically what I meant, but did a pretty crappy job of describing it. -- Matt ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
On Mon, Nov 12, 2007 at 12:45:22AM -0700, Aaron J. Seigo wrote: On Monday 12 November 2007, Torsten Rahn wrote: On Sunday 11 November 2007, Torsten Rahn wrote: of course, our show stoppers themselves are somewhat funny (as in they smell funny ... ) since last time i looked we did no have anything about the keyboard shortcuts control panel not working at all (though this has had the side effect of getting me used to the kde defaults again ;) while we do have some pretty minor showstoppers. Well, last time I checked the default style didn't support QToolBox yet. This basically rendered Marble unusable as people are not able to make use of the interface. heh.. indeed. or menus. ;) i'm dangerously close to having resizable and movable panels. they'll be done this week. multiple panels are there, xrandr works, xinerama works. taskbar and systray both need bugfixes; i wont get to working on those until next week, however. (i figure i only need 2 days to get the panel stuff done, which means it'll take a week ;). So do I understand it correctly that you think that Plasma will have sorted out all remaining issues that are left for an RC1 only until next wednesday? Sounds good to me. wednesday the 21st? the showstopers will be, yes. involved with the last few showstoppers when those showstoppers will be fixed. Based on that we should decide how to proceed. I remember that this was done for earlier releases. It helped to make people commit themselves to get the release out of the door soon while at the same time making sure that we'd adhere to our quality standards. this makes more sense to me: a ballance between well, let's just slip the date without putting any pressure on our work schedule and let's stick to the schedule regardless of what we've accomplished. Balance is always good. But it needs to be based on criteria. The only agreed; let's get started on exactly what you noted. i'm too tired at this point in the night (it's nearly 1am here =) but would love to help with this in the daytime... we should really strive to make a december release if at all possible (for so many reasons which we've gone over so many times now), and that may well mean a big final push. I'd love to see a release being tagged right before christmas. But I'd hate to receive a release from Santa where you get the feel that the QA Santa dwarves were on Christmas holidays already concerning the most basic functionality. :-) lol =) agreed .. i'm just saying if we press ourselves a bit, we may surprise ourselves ... or at least avoid slipagitis taking over completely. Also, allowing our deadlines not to slip actually gets people moving, i.e. the KConfig breakage that happened after we were supposed to be frozen because people said oh shit! I didn't get X, Y, and Z done for KDE 4.0 and now I have to wait until KDE 5.0. We need some sense of urgency in order to get ourselves off our asses and get this stuff done. -- Matt ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
On Monday 12 November 2007, Thomas Zander wrote: On Monday 12. November 2007 15:18:49 Eike Hein wrote: Andreas Pakulat wrote: Apart from that the oxygen windeco (AFAIK) doesn't adhere to the kde color scheme completely (it ignores the titlebar color that is set). There's a bugreport for that, but I can't find it right now. http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=152030 That bug definitely is a showstopper. people are confusing must support every feature in the control panel, artistic direction decision and showstopper. this is hardly a showstopper. not painting menus or tab pages would be; so let's try not to distract the limited resources we have working on these things with niggling issues that are at best bugs, probably wishlists and certainly not showstoppers as long as real showstoppers do exist. agreed? =) -- Aaron J. Seigo humru othro a kohnu se GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43 KDE core developer sponsored by Trolltech pgprISWwQWEat.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: Bringing ebn krazy back
A Dilluns 12 Novembre 2007, Matt Rogers va escriure: On Nov 11, 2007, at 1:40 PM, Albert Astals Cid wrote: Can we have it back already? Please? Albert Please justify why you need it. Because it's useful, that's a reason by itself, if you want particular examples I want to check i don't use any of the difficult to translate words (like Default, File, etc) without context. If you're running out of things to work on, there are plenty of bugs in trunk. :) Yes, but i first want to polish my apps before going to apps i don't use/know. Albert ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
On Monday 12 November 2007 18:36:44 Matt Rogers wrote: I'd love to see a release being tagged right before christmas. But I'd hate to receive a release from Santa where you get the feel that the QA Santa dwarves were on Christmas holidays already concerning the most basic functionality. :-) lol =) agreed .. i'm just saying if we press ourselves a bit, we may surprise ourselves ... or at least avoid slipagitis taking over completely. Also, allowing our deadlines not to slip actually gets people moving, i.e. the KConfig breakage that happened after we were supposed to be frozen because people said oh shit! I didn't get X, Y, and Z done for KDE 4.0 and now I have to wait until KDE 5.0. We need some sense of urgency in order to get ourselves off our asses and get this stuff done. I would also see a release rather sooner than later. That means tagging before Christmas. From a PR and Dirk's vacation POV, that also means let's try to stick to December 11, and not insert a beta. -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
A Dilluns 12 Novembre 2007, Torsten Rahn va escriure: Albert Astals Cid wrote: okular still can't print (although it seems that might be done *soon*) so i agree Well at the current point of time there is no way to get heard if you won't get more specific and commit yourself on an exact point of time. Tell a reasonably estimated date when printing will be done (unless you get hit by a car) and chances are much higher that okular's showstoppers can get considered while planning the release. So are you able to tell whether printing will be ready by Wednesday 21st (just like plasma will have stuff ironed out by then) ? It seems likely to be working by then, yes, but it's not me doing the actual work, so i can not back it up 100%. Albert Torsten ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
Re: beta5 or rc1
On Monday 12 November 2007 20:49:08 Torsten Rahn wrote: Sebastian Kügler wrote: I would also see a release rather sooner than later. That's certainly what we all would like to see. Still we need to check whether it's possible to do that without releasing seriously broken stuff. Yes. I read all the thread and gave it quite some thinking. No reason to re-iterate all that again. I still do believe that more pressure in this phase is good. This additional pressure means calling it -rc1, telling people that this will be it if they don't fix their stuff. I don't want to push 4.0 back yet. We're under way really well. -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ release-team mailing list release-team@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/release-team
