August 30 Webcast of Pepperdine conference on Roberts Court "Rookie Year" -- starting 2:30pm Pacific Time
I thought it might be worth letting religionlaw list members know that, if they can't attend in person, they can watch the webcast. Participants will include Akhil Amar, Erwin Chemerinsky, Elizabeth Garrett, Doug Kmiec, Ken Starr, Marcia Coyle, Gina Holland, and David Savage. Information is available at http://law.pepperdine.edu/news_events/072006_symposium.jsp, which is also where you'll be able to find the webcast at 2:30pm Pacific Daylight Time on Wednesday, August 30. I think the webcast will be on a half-hour time delay, because the program will actually take place from 2pm to 6pm PDT on August 30. Thus I'd expect the webcast to end at 6:30pm PDT. Mark S. Scarberry Pepperdine University School of Law ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Rep. Harris (R-Fla.) on Church and State
On Aug 28, 2006, at 11:11 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: God is absolutely in control. "By me kings reign and rulers decree justice By me princes rule, and nobles all the judges of the earth." Proverbs 8:15-16 (NKJV) Debra Cook With all due respect, Ms. Cook, I see no reference to elected officials in that particular verse. Nor do we have any princes or noble class in the United States. And frankly, the rulers of this land AREN'T decreeing justice. So ultimately, we can waste our time debating whether or not your god is in control--but this isn't the place for it. We are a secular nation, not a theocracy. If your god has a problem with that, your god can certainly make it clear if s/he chooses. Which s/he hasn't done to my satisfaction, and so IMNSHO, has left it up to you and me to make what we will of this nation. Leave your god out of the discussion, if you please. Jean Dudley ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: Rep. Harris (R-Fla.) on Church and State
Aren’t theological claims a bit beyond the scope of the discussion on this listserv? I have no problem with theological claims, and would have no problem discussing this claim. But not here. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 2:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Law & Religion issues for Law Academics; UCLA Law Class Subject: RE: Rep. Harris (R-Fla.) on Church and State God is absolutely in control. "By me kings reign and rulers decree justice By me princes rule, and nobles all the judges of the earth." Proverbs 8:15-16 (NKJV) Debra Cook -- Original message -- From: Gordon James Klingenschmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Although I'm not a lawyer, I am working on my PhD in Theology, and of course my Navy Chaplain issues put me at the intersection of church and state...so perhaps I'm qualified to comment on Senator-candidate Katherine Harris' comments about "separation" and legislating "God's will." 1) I said essentially the same thing as Ms. Harris in my 1999 interview with US News and World Report (paraphrased from my memory): "Many Americans want to elect politicians who legislate tolerance of sin, just so they won't have to forsake their favorite sins. But God will never make sin legal. Won't it be tragic one day, when American citizens stand before God to be judged, and say 'but I thought that was legal...' and discover (too late) that God disagrees. Government's highest duty then, is to pass laws God agrees with, lest it do its citizens an eternal disservice." 2) Many anti-Christians quote "separation of church and state" as if that somehow means Christians aren't allowed to vote. But we who share Christian values have just as much right to vote, lobby, advocate, publish, and legislate our values as any other citizens. Liberals often use the phrase "separation" as a means to intimidate and silence Christian voters from fully participating. But we will not be silenced, nor should we be intimidated. 3) The First Amendment doesn't prohibit the legislation of "Christian" laws, any more than it prohibits the legislation of "Muslim" values or "Atheist" values or "Sandy Levinson's" values. Theoretically we could organize and legislate the Ten Commandments directly into the U.S. Constitution, if we had 2/3rd of Senators and 3/4 of the States to vote them in. Perhaps that would anger anti-Christian voters, but then we're angered by their pro-abortion/pro-homosexual laws too. 4) President Bush shouldn't disown her comments, rather it's possible he agrees with her theology. Here's a clip from 1999 interview of Meet The Press: MR. RUSSERT: Reverend Land, The Washington Post reported this: "'I believe God wants me to be president,' the Rev. Richard Land, head of the public policy arm of the Southern Baptist Convention, quoted George Bush as saying." When did George Bush tell you that? DR. RICHARD LAND: Well, he told me that--he told a group of us that the day he was inaugurated for his second term as governor of the state in 1999. 5) I disagree theologically, however, with both of them, if they believe as Katherine Harris says, 'God is the one who chooses our rulers.' There's ample evidence to the contrary, that the Devil himself often chooses our rulers, and evil morals are legislated by those who campaign (and win) on platforms announcing their intention to legislate the devil's will. Some wrongly assume all "American" laws are the same as "God's" laws. But God himself disagrees with many American laws on the books, for example, the new Navy policy that prohibits chaplains from praying "in Jesus name" outside the chapel. Our duty is always to fight the devil, and his laws. 6) When American law conflicts with God's law, Christians have a duty to disobey human law, and obey God's law. Our duty toward civil disobedience has been recognized by great Americans throughout history, for example Martin Luther King, Patrick Henry, the Founding Fathers (Declaration of Independence) etc. 7) The very notion of our 3-branch system of Government (President, Congress, Courts) came from the Bible, and is patterned after God's personality, from Isaiah 33:22: "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; it is he who will save us." We must therefore vote what God has told our conscience to legislate, what we know is right, and we must never legislate evil. If our government ceases to reflect God's personality, woe to us all, for the devil's tyranny will become a heavy yoke upon our necks, and true Christian Liberty will be lost forever. Gordon James Klingenschmitt www.persuade.tv Sanford Levinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:28:48 -0500 From: "San
Re: Rep. Harris (R-Fla.) on Church and State
I am curious as to what purpose this email is supposed to serve. It certainly cannot be intended to persuade anyone as it offers nothing but a proof text from an authority persuasive only to a narrow group of believers who happen to interpret the proof text in the same way. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Law & Religion issues for Law Academics ; UCLA Law Class Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:11 PM Subject: RE: Rep. Harris (R-Fla.) on Church and State God is absolutely in control. "By me kings reign and rulers decree justice By me princes rule, and nobles all the judges of the earth." Proverbs 8:15-16 (NKJV) Debra Cook -- Original message -- From: Gordon James Klingenschmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Although I'm not a lawyer, I am working on my PhD in Theology, and of course my Navy Chaplain issues put me at the intersection of church and state...so perhaps I'm qualified to comment on Senator-candidate Katherine Harris' comments about "separation" and legislating "God's will." 1) I said essentially the same thing as Ms. Harris in my 1999 interview with US News and World Report (paraphrased from my memory): "Many Americans want to elect politicians who legislate tolerance of sin, just so they won't have to forsake their favorite sins. But God will never make sin legal. Won't it be tragic one day, when American citizens stand before God to be judged, and say 'but I thought that was legal...' and discover (too late) that God disagrees. Government's highest duty then, is to pass laws God agrees with, lest it do its citizens an eternal disservice." 2) Many anti-Christians quote "separation of church and state" as if that somehow means Christians aren't allowed to vote. But we who share Christian values have just as much right to vote, lobby, advocate, publish, and legislate our values as any other citizens. Liberals often use the phrase "separation" as a means to intimidate and silence Christian voters from fully participating. But we will not be silenced, nor should we be intimidated. 3) The First Amendment doesn't prohibit the legislation of "Christian" laws, any more than it prohibits the legislation of "Muslim" values or "Atheist" values or "Sandy Levinson's" values. Theoretically we could organize and legislate the Ten Commandments directly into the U.S. Constitution, if we had 2/3rd of Senators and 3/4 of the States to vote them in. Perhaps that would anger anti-Christian voters, but then we're angered by their pro-abortion/pro-homosexual laws too. 4) President Bush shouldn't disown her comments, rather it's possible he agrees with her theology. Here's a clip from 1999 interview of Meet The Press: MR. RUSSERT: Reverend Land, The Washington Post reported this: "'I believe God wants me to be president,' the Rev. Richard Land, head of the public policy arm of the Southern Baptist Convention, quoted George Bush as saying." When did George Bush tell you that? DR. RICHARD LAND: Well, he told me that--he told a group of us that the day he was inaugurated for his second term as governor of the state in 1999. 5) I disagree theologically, however, with both of them, if they believe as Katherine Harris says, 'God is the one who chooses our rulers.' There's ample evidence to the contrary, that the Devil himself often chooses our rulers, and evil morals are legislated by those who campaign (and win) on platforms announcing their intention to legislate the devil's will. Some wrongly assume all "American" laws are the same as "God's" laws. But God himself disagrees with many American laws on the books, for example, the new Navy policy that prohibits chaplains from praying "in Jesus name" outside the chapel. Our duty is always to fight the devil, and his laws. 6) When American law conflicts with God's law, Christians have a duty to disobey human law, and obey God's law. Our duty toward civil disobedience has been recognized by great Americans throughout history, for example Martin Luther King, Patrick Henry, the Founding Fathers (Declaration of Independence) etc. 7) The very notion of our 3-branch system of Government (President, Congress, Courts) came from the Bible, and is patterned after God's personality, from Isaiah 33:22: "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; it is he who will save us." We must therefore vote what God has told our conscience to legislate, what we know is right, and we must never legislate evil. If our government ceases to reflect God's personality
RE: Rep. Harris (R-Fla.) on Church and State
God is absolutely in control. "By me kings reign and rulers decree justice By me princes rule, and nobles all the judges of the earth." Proverbs 8:15-16 (NKJV) Debra Cook -- Original message -- From: Gordon James Klingenschmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Although I'm not a lawyer, I am working on my PhD in Theology, and of course my Navy Chaplain issues put me at the intersection of church and state...so perhaps I'm qualified to comment on Senator-candidate Katherine Harris' comments about "separation" and legislating "God's will." 1) I said essentially the same thing as Ms. Harris in my 1999 interview with US News and World Report (paraphrased from my memory): "Many Americans want to elect politicians who legislate tolerance of sin, just so they won't have to forsake their favorite sins. But God will never make sin legal. Won't it be tragic one day, when American citizens stand before God to be judged, and say 'but I thought that was legal...' and discover (too late) that God disagrees. Government's highest duty then, is to pass laws God agrees with, lest it do its citizens an eternal disservice." 2) Many anti-Christians quote "separation of church and state" as if that somehow means Christians aren't allowed to vote. But we who share Christian values have just as much right to vote, lobby, advocate, publish, and legislate our values as any other citizens. Liberals often use the phrase "separation" as a means to intimidate and silence Christian voters from fully participating. But we will not be silenced, nor should we be intimidated. 3) The First Amendment doesn't prohibit the legislation of "Christian" laws, any more than it prohibits the legislation of "Muslim" values or "Atheist" values or "Sandy Levinson's" values. Theoretically we could organize and legislate the Ten Commandments directly into the U.S. Constitution, if we had 2/3rd of Senators and 3/4 of the States to vote them in. Perhaps that would anger anti-Christian voters, but then we're angered by their pro-abortion/pro-homosexual laws too. 4) President Bush shouldn't disown her comments, rather it's possible he agrees with her theology. Here's a clip from 1999 interview of Meet The Press: MR. RUSSERT: Reverend Land, The Washington Post reported this: "'I believe God wants me to be president,' the Rev. Richard Land, head of the public policy arm of the Southern Baptist Convention, quoted George Bush as saying." When did George Bush tell you that? DR. RICHARD LAND: Well, he told me that--he told a group of us that the day he was inaugurated for his second term as governor of the state in 1999. 5) I disagree theologically, however, with both of them, if they believe as Katherine Harris says, 'God is the one who chooses our rulers.' There's ample evidence to the contrary, that the Devil himself often chooses our rulers, and evil morals are legislated by those who campaign (and win) on platforms announcing their intention to legislate the devil's will. Some wrongly assume all "American" laws are the same as "God's" laws. But God himself disagrees with many American laws on the books, for example, the new Navy policy that prohibits chaplains from praying "in Jesus name" outside the chapel. Our duty is always to fight the devil, and his laws. 6) When American law conflicts with God's law, Christians have a duty to disobey human law, and obey God's law. Our duty toward civil disobedience has been recognized by great Americans throughout history, for example Martin Luther King, Patrick Henry, the Founding Fathers (Declaration of Independence) etc. 7) The very notion of our 3-branch system of Government (President, Congress, Courts) came from the Bible, and is patterned after God's personality, from Isaiah 33:22: "For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; it is he who will save us." We must therefore vote what God has told our conscience to legislate, what we know is right, and we must never legislate evil. If our government ceases to reflect God's personality, woe to us all, for the devil's tyranny will become a heavy yoke upon our necks, and true Christian Liberty will be lost forever. Gordon James Klingenschmitt www.persuade.tv Sanford Levinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:28:48 -0500From: "Sanford Levinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: "Law & Religion issues for Law Academics" Subject: RE: Rep. Harris (R-Fla.) on Church and State So what will the Bushes do? Is she going to be the second Republican senatorial candidate to be disowned? But the Democratic candidate is scarcely so compatible to Republicans as Joe Lieberman. Incidentally, given her apparent belief that God casts the relevant vote in all elections, will she interpret her own likely repudiation by the voters of Florida as a sign that God may actually support separation? sandy Rep. Harris Condemns Separation of Church, State By Jim Stratto
