[Repeater-Builder] Re: [Motorola-User] Look for test cable
Sorry All I got the part # wrong .. its a TEK-37 and TEK-37A Thanks Rick On 26 Apr 2004 at 20:52, Rick - VA3RZS/Charlotte - VA3CMR wrote: Hello all ... I am looking for a Motorola test set adapter cable model tkn6025a if any one can help me out that would be great need this cable so I can use the test set with micor repeater Rick Szajkowski VA3 RZS Charlotte Darby VA3 CMR Node Owners of IRLP Node 2120 Lakefield Ont Canada To Unsubscribe, Click Here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] No Subject or Text is required. Yahoo! Groups Links Rick Szajkowski VA3 RZS Charlotte Darby VA3 CMR Node Owners of IRLP Node 2120 Lakefield Ont Canada Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
I have a repeater with an antenna up about 60 feet in the air, Frequency of 146.925/146.325 minus offset. Receiever sensitity is .25 micorovolt at 12DB, seems to be purring along just fine. IFR show the receive to be on frequency. Here's the problem, there is a repeater about 50 air miles away, on the pair of 146.910/146.31o minus offset. There repeater is getting into my receiver, causing the repeater to key up. There is no pl on my repeater at this time. They sound like they are on sideband when they come in. I can goto the 91 machine, hear them talking, when they quit, the interference quits. I took my IFR and inserted a tone on 146.310 into my receiver, it took 15 microvolts to open the squelch of my receiver. Is it my receiver, which is a Regency receiver, or is it the person transmitting on the other machine. I could see if it was the 91 machine if all it was doing was killing my receive, but it's actually keying up the repeater. SO my guess would be it would have to be the person talking on the 91 repeater. I hope I explained this right. Any suggestions. Thanks. Mathew Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
At 4/26/2004 05:59 PM, you wrote: I have a repeater with an antenna up about 60 feet in the air, Frequency of 146.925/146.325 minus offset. Receiever sensitity is .25 micorovolt at 12DB, seems to be purring along just fine. IFR show the receive to be on frequency. Here's the problem, there is a repeater about 50 air miles away, on the pair of 146.910/146.31o minus offset. There repeater is getting into my receiver, causing the repeater to key up. There is no pl on my repeater at this time. They sound like they are on sideband when they come in. I can goto the 91 machine, hear them talking, when they quit, the interference quits. I took my IFR and inserted a tone on 146.310 into my receiver, it took 15 microvolts to open the squelch of my receiver. Is it my receiver, which is a Regency receiver, or is it the person transmitting on the other machine. I could see if it was the 91 machine if all it was doing was killing my receive, but it's actually keying up the repeater. SO my guess would be it would have to be the person talking on the 91 repeater. I hope I explained this right. Any suggestions. Thanks. If both repeaters are running the same offset, the problem is due to a user of the 146.91 repeater being either too close to your repeater and/or running excessive deviation. It is not directly due to the 146.91 (-) repeater's TX. The best solution would be to reverse the 146.925 (-) repeater to 146.325 (+). Our bandplan in SoCal inverts the pairs every 15 kHz in order to prevent the situation you now have. So long as the repeaters are properly spaced maintained, it works great. Not easy to accomplish, but easier than trying to get a user to move or turn down their deviation. You can CTCSS-protect your input to prevent the unwanted keyups, but your input will still be blocked by the interfering adjacent-channel signal. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Micor Receiver Identification
Hello Everyone: I have two Micor Receiver boards, and would like to get a schematic for each one. Also, what was their application? There is nothing in any of my micor manuals. Board #1: TLD 5782AV Appears to be 142-150 range. Has normal F1-F4, but looks like it has 4 Rx and 4 Tx elements for F5 - F8. Board #2: TLB 8454B1 has two RCA type jacks on the board instead of the normal one RCA jack. Much more circuitry on the element side of this board. Thanks for any information. Tony, K3WX Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] IFR Monitor Repair Charges
I received the following statement from Aeroflex/IFR this morning, regarding their current fees: The current fee for a non-traceable calibration is $250.00 and a NIST calibration is $500.00. The flat-rate repair includes one major repair and a non-traceable calibration for $1,275.00. The flat-rate repair includes one major repair and an NIST calibration for $1,525.00. Please note that if more than one repair is needed, the price will be based on a time and material charge. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] IFR Monitor Repair Charges
Eric, Are the repair rates model specific? Thanks John At 01:04 AM 4/27/04, you wrote: I received the following statement from Aeroflex/IFR this morning, regarding their current fees: The current fee for a non-traceable calibration is $250.00 and a NIST calibration is $500.00. The flat-rate repair includes one major repair and a non-traceable calibration for $1,275.00. The flat-rate repair includes one major repair and an NIST calibration for $1,525.00. Please note that if more than one repair is needed, the price will be based on a time and material charge. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
Steve's suggestion s are good. We had similar problems in California with 15 Khz splits particularly when the user of the adjacent channel was a bit off frequency. It is most likely the user getting into your machine and not the repeater unless there is some kind of mixing going on. PL (CTCSS) is the best solution cause you probably can't control their users and keep them on frequency and their deviation down. Gary-K7NEY - Original Message - From: Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 6:28 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference Each signal is about 10 to 12 Khz wide. You are in each other's pass band. Public safety had similar problems here - 15 Khz channel spacing and 20 kc wide channels using geographic separation. Suggestions - use different sub audible tones to reduce annoyance interference. Both parties reduce modulation to +/- 3.5 Khz peak transmitter deviation. QSY? Go narrow band, different RX filters and 2.5 Khz peak deviation. Regards, Steve Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] IFR Monitor Repair Charges
Same deal with large LMR factory depot - flat rate for one problem - more problems MORE $$$s. Steve Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: IFR Monitor Repair Charges
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Steve S. Bosshard \(NU5D\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Same deal with large LMR factory depot - flat rate for one problem - more problems MORE $$$s. Steve I just repaired my COM120B - the 10MHz ref osc died. I called them and almost fell out of the chair when I heard those numbers. And over $350 for a service manual! I decided to calm down and dove into it to try and repair it myself. I found that the 10MHz ref osc assembly was not putting out a signal. I tested the rest of the monitor by injecting an external 10MHz reference. I then pulled the osc module out and opened it up. I found a shorted surface mount 10uF electrolytic cap, and a burned up surface mount inductor (due the current draw of the shorted cap). I then called IFR (Aeroflex) to order the cap and inductor. Well, I was told of a $50 min. order, and the two surface mount 10 cent parts were $3 or so each. I was so turned off by them that I just told them send me $50 of whatever you need to, as long as I get the cap and inductor I need. $60 later I had the cap and inductor, and repaired the monitor. I guess I can't cry too much - $60 is a hell of a lot better than $1200 flat rate! Moral of the story - fix it yourself if possible Eric KE2D Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
w9mwq wrote: I have a repeater with an antenna up about 60 feet in the air, Frequency of 146.925/146.325 minus offset. Receiever sensitity is .25 micorovolt at 12DB, seems to be purring along just fine. IFR show the receive to be on frequency. Here's the problem, there is a repeater about 50 air miles away, on the pair of 146.910/146.31o minus offset. There repeater is getting into my receiver, causing the repeater to key up. There is no pl on my repeater at this time. They sound like they are on sideband when they come in. I can goto the 91 machine, hear them talking, when they quit, the interference quits. I took my IFR and inserted a tone on 146.310 into my receiver, it took 15 microvolts to open the squelch of my receiver. Is it my receiver, which is a Regency receiver, or is it the person transmitting on the other machine. I could see if it was the 91 machine if all it was doing was killing my receive, but it's actually keying up the repeater. SO my guess would be it would have to be the person talking on the 91 repeater. I hope I explained this right. Any suggestions. Thanks. Mathew As others have said, the problem is users of the other system getting into your receiver. You should notice that the problem goes away as soon as the user unkeys. Yes, the Regency receiver is a big problem. They are notorious for being broad as a barn. A UHF repeater here used to be a Regency. I could bring it up reliably from 30-35 miles away 10 Khz either side of frequency with a 1W handheld! Find yourself a Micor or Mastr II receiver and that should cut it down considerably. You'll never get rid of it altogether, but you should be able to cut it down to where it's rare. Our rptr on 146.625 has a 146.61 and a 146.64 rptr abt 50 miles away or so. Our system is all Micor. Unless someone is right underneath one of our receivers running a base station-type setup, we never hear anything from them. Now the Michigan rptr 5 Khz away... -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: IFR Monitor Repair Charges
Yeah.. I'd have been upset too! Upset enough to have been blinded by the fiery rage! Always try to remember to order some knobs, spare pico fuses, or whatever else might be cracked or broken if it will get you closer to the minimum charge. 73, Steve, AA5SG - Original Message - From: kk2ed [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 10:57 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: IFR Monitor Repair Charges --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Steve S. Bosshard \(NU5D\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Same deal with large LMR factory depot - flat rate for one problem - more problems MORE $$$s. Steve I just repaired my COM120B - the 10MHz ref osc died. I called them and almost fell out of the chair when I heard those numbers. And over $350 for a service manual! I decided to calm down and dove into it to try and repair it myself. I found that the 10MHz ref osc assembly was not putting out a signal. I tested the rest of the monitor by injecting an external 10MHz reference. I then pulled the osc module out and opened it up. I found a shorted surface mount 10uF electrolytic cap, and a burned up surface mount inductor (due the current draw of the shorted cap). I then called IFR (Aeroflex) to order the cap and inductor. Well, I was told of a $50 min. order, and the two surface mount 10 cent parts were $3 or so each. I was so turned off by them that I just told them send me $50 of whatever you need to, as long as I get the cap and inductor I need. $60 later I had the cap and inductor, and repaired the monitor. I guess I can't cry too much - $60 is a hell of a lot better than $1200 flat rate! Moral of the story - fix it yourself if possible Eric KE2D Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Convertacom
Anyone have the pinout of the 25 pin connector on the bottom of a convertacom (NTN5612A)? Art - KC7GF Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Apcor?
Back in the olden days when Adam 12 and Emergency were on TV, the guys would call Rampart and send a strip back to the ER using a Coronary Observation Radio. The Apcor would use the truck as a vehicular repeater back to the ER. The truck was equipped with a full duplex radio using MED 1 thru MED 10 with MED 9 and 10 reserved for dispatch, and 1 thru 8 for working channels. Med 1 Base was 463.000 and went in 25kc steps except MED 9 and 10, 462.950 and 462.975 respectively. The truck listened on several 458 Mhz. channels and retran on standard med channels. The Apcor worked in tandem with the truck and usually not solo, although some areas it could. Best I recall the 2 headed duplex monster in the truck ran about $21,000 plus the cost of the apcor. Books are probably long gone, Steve Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Apcor?
Anyone ever heard of a Motorola Apcor radio? A friend has described it as a packset with 10 channels UHF. Can anyone tell me more about it? Art - KC7GF Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Apcor
Additional to Steve's -- Squad 51 had the huge orange cargo-case... 80's era APCOR were more like a double-sized lunch-box - about 1/3 battery; believe the RF decks were built around the MX series.. On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:00:10 -0500 Steve Bosshard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Back in the olden days when Adam 12 and Emergency were on TV, the guys would call Rampart ... Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
Yes you are right, I found the user that was causing the interference, not much I can do about it. I am waiting on a new receiver, so hopefully that will help cure some of the problems. Thanks for the input. Mathew - Original Message - From: Jim B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 12:05 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference w9mwq wrote: I have a repeater with an antenna up about 60 feet in the air, Frequency of 146.925/146.325 minus offset. Receiever sensitity is .25 micorovolt at 12DB, seems to be purring along just fine. IFR show the receive to be on frequency. Here's the problem, there is a repeater about 50 air miles away, on the pair of 146.910/146.31o minus offset. There repeater is getting into my receiver, causing the repeater to key up. There is no pl on my repeater at this time. They sound like they are on sideband when they come in. I can goto the 91 machine, hear them talking, when they quit, the interference quits. I took my IFR and inserted a tone on 146.310 into my receiver, it took 15 microvolts to open the squelch of my receiver. Is it my receiver, which is a Regency receiver, or is it the person transmitting on the other machine. I could see if it was the 91 machine if all it was doing was killing my receive, but it's actually keying up the repeater. SO my guess would be it would have to be the person talking on the 91 repeater. I hope I explained this right. Any suggestions. Thanks. Mathew As others have said, the problem is users of the other system getting into your receiver. You should notice that the problem goes away as soon as the user unkeys. Yes, the Regency receiver is a big problem. They are notorious for being broad as a barn. A UHF repeater here used to be a Regency. I could bring it up reliably from 30-35 miles away 10 Khz either side of frequency with a 1W handheld! Find yourself a Micor or Mastr II receiver and that should cut it down considerably. You'll never get rid of it altogether, but you should be able to cut it down to where it's rare. Our rptr on 146.625 has a 146.61 and a 146.64 rptr abt 50 miles away or so. Our system is all Micor. Unless someone is right underneath one of our receivers running a base station-type setup, we never hear anything from them. Now the Michigan rptr 5 Khz away... -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Apcor
The box on Emergency! was actually a GE telemetry radio I believe. The APCOR consisted of 2 parts. The APCOR itself was MX based and ran relatively low power, I think around 2 watts. The mobile unit was Micor based and they were strange beasts. The Micor/APCOR system was an in-band UHF repeater system. The Micor would TX and rcv on the med channels 1-10 on 460.xxx and rebroadcast out to the APCOR on 450.xxx. A neat system for its time. Kevin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 3:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Apcor Additional to Steve's -- Squad 51 had the huge orange cargo-case... 80's era APCOR were more like a double-sized lunch-box - about 1/3 battery; believe the RF decks were built around the MX series.. On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:00:10 -0500 Steve Bosshard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Back in the olden days when Adam 12 and Emergency were on TV, the guys would call Rampart ... Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Alignment
Is there any methods of tuning a set of duplexer without having a Spectrum analyzer. I am in the learning stages again. I have an IFR-500a, so I can generate a signal into them. I know this would work somewhat for the receive, but what does one do for the transmit. Mathew Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
Try using the math on the IF of your rx to see what is making them mix on your freq, how long have the 2 machines been co-existing on-the-air? If it were one or 2 users you would know it rather than the entire time the machine is active, can you see how clean the signal is from that machine, I doubt if 50 miles is gonna make trouble unless the have some really wide spurs and then every open rx is gonna see some falsing. w9mwq wrote: I have a repeater with an antenna up about 60 feet in the air, Frequency of 146.925/146.325 minus offset. Receiever sensitity is .25 micorovolt at 12DB, seems to be purring along just fine. IFR show the receive to be on frequency. Here's the problem, there is a repeater about 50 air miles away, on the pair of 146.910/146.31o minus offset. There repeater is getting into my receiver, causing the repeater to key up. There is no pl on my repeater at this time. They sound like they are on sideband when they come in. I can goto the 91 machine, hear them talking, when they quit, the interference quits. I took my IFR and inserted a tone on 146.310 into my receiver, it took 15 microvolts to open the squelch of my receiver. Is it my receiver, which is a Regency receiver, or is it the person transmitting on the other machine. I could see if it was the 91 machine if all it was doing was killing my receive, but it's actually keying up the repeater. SO my guess would be it would have to be the person talking on the 91 repeater. I hope I explained this right. Any suggestions. Thanks. Mathew -- 73...Clark Beckman N8PZD Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Apcor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Additional to Steve's -- Squad 51 had the huge orange cargo-case... Yeah-they were called 'Biocoms'. Basic RF components were those Repco/Comco/whatever modular handhelds. Pretty junky by todays standards. 80's era APCOR were more like a double-sized lunch-box - about 1/3 battery; believe the RF decks were built around the MX series.. Yup. Not much better than the Biocoms... -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
Well I narrowed down parts of the problem, the first being the wide as a 2x4 Regency receiver, which is going to be changed out, and the other is a local ham using 100 watts to talk to this machine, when in it really only needs about 7 watts to hit it full quieting with minimal antenna height. My repeater actually is just gettting underway, new coordination. So each day is a new adventure for me. Having not played with FM and etcfor about 15 years, still trying to remember, kinda hard to get all the cobwebs out of the brain. Thanks. Mathew - Original Message - From: Virden Clark Beckman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference Try using the math on the IF of your rx to see what is making them mix on your freq, how long have the 2 machines been co-existing on-the-air? If it were one or 2 users you would know it rather than the entire time the machine is active, can you see how clean the signal is from that machine, I doubt if 50 miles is gonna make trouble unless the have some really wide spurs and then every open rx is gonna see some falsing. w9mwq wrote: I have a repeater with an antenna up about 60 feet in the air, Frequency of 146.925/146.325 minus offset. Receiever sensitity is .25 micorovolt at 12DB, seems to be purring along just fine. IFR show the receive to be on frequency. Here's the problem, there is a repeater about 50 air miles away, on the pair of 146.910/146.31o minus offset. There repeater is getting into my receiver, causing the repeater to key up. There is no pl on my repeater at this time. They sound like they are on sideband when they come in. I can goto the 91 machine, hear them talking, when they quit, the interference quits. I took my IFR and inserted a tone on 146.310 into my receiver, it took 15 microvolts to open the squelch of my receiver. Is it my receiver, which is a Regency receiver, or is it the person transmitting on the other machine. I could see if it was the 91 machine if all it was doing was killing my receive, but it's actually keying up the repeater. SO my guess would be it would have to be the person talking on the 91 repeater. I hope I explained this right. Any suggestions. Thanks. Mathew -- 73...Clark Beckman N8PZD Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Alignment
At 07:40 PM 4/27/2004 -, you wrote: Is there any methods of tuning a set of duplexer without having a Spectrum analyzer. I am in the learning stages again. I have an IFR-500a, so I can generate a signal into them. I know this would work somewhat for the receive, but what does one do for the transmit. ---Why wouldn't it work for transmit? As a matter of fact, it would work just fine by both the receive AND transmit sides of the duplexer. RF is RF, regardless if its -100 Dbm or +10 Dbm, right? Depending on what kind of duplexer is it (BP/BR or just BR) determines the tuning procedure. You might want to check the website to see if yours is listed. One thing though - It's a good idea to use a 3 db pad on the receiver you're using for tuning, since you have no guarantee it will present a 50 ohm load to the duplexer. Oh, and don't forget to make sure a 50 ohm load is on the duplexer port not currently being tuned as well (a 3 db pad would work here as well). Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Be sure to see our products at this year's Dayton Hamvention! Repeater Builders spaces 707 through 710 AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
Mathew Quaife wrote: Well I narrowed down parts of the problem, the first being the wide as a 2x4 Regency receiver, which is going to be changed out, yeah. guess ya gotta start somewhere...;c) and the other is a local ham using 100 watts to talk to this machine, when in it really only needs about 7 watts to hit it full quieting with minimal antenna height. As long as your repeater is coordinated, that's malicious interference. He needs to stop. My repeater actually is just gettting underway, new coordination. So each day is a new adventure for me. Having not played with FM and etcfor about 15 years, still trying to remember, kinda hard to get all the cobwebs out of the brain. Thanks. Mathew heh-roger that... -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
Remind the fellow using 100 watts to talk to a repeater that he could be in violation of Part 97 rules on using minimal power. We had a similar situation and interference to our one 2 meter repeater on the mountain and we had to remind the guy of the Laws of Radio Physics, power, distance, and Part 97 !! Ron WW8RR -Original Message- From: Mathew Quaife [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 3:46 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference Well I narrowed down parts of the problem, the first being the wide as a 2x4 Regency receiver, which is going to be changed out, and the other is a local ham using 100 watts to talk to this machine, when in it really only needs about 7 watts to hit it full quieting with minimal antenna height. My repeater actually is just gettting underway, new coordination. So each day is a new adventure for me. Having not played with FM and etcfor about 15 years, still trying to remember, kinda hard to get all the cobwebs out of the brain. Thanks. Mathew - Original Message - From: Virden Clark Beckman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference Try using the math on the IF of your rx to see what is making them mix on your freq, how long have the 2 machines been co-existing on-the-air? If it were one or 2 users you would know it rather than the entire time the machine is active, can you see how clean the signal is from that machine, I doubt if 50 miles is gonna make trouble unless the have some really wide spurs and then every open rx is gonna see some falsing. w9mwq wrote: I have a repeater with an antenna up about 60 feet in the air, Frequency of 146.925/146.325 minus offset. Receiever sensitity is .25 micorovolt at 12DB, seems to be purring along just fine. IFR show the receive to be on frequency. Here's the problem, there is a repeater about 50 air miles away, on the pair of 146.910/146.31o minus offset. There repeater is getting into my receiver, causing the repeater to key up. There is no pl on my repeater at this time. They sound like they are on sideband when they come in. I can goto the 91 machine, hear them talking, when they quit, the interference quits. I took my IFR and inserted a tone on 146.310 into my receiver, it took 15 microvolts to open the squelch of my receiver. Is it my receiver, which is a Regency receiver, or is it the person transmitting on the other machine. I could see if it was the 91 machine if all it was doing was killing my receive, but it's actually keying up the repeater. SO my guess would be it would have to be the person talking on the 91 repeater. I hope I explained this right. Any suggestions. Thanks. Mathew -- 73...Clark Beckman N8PZD Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
I could not agree with you more, however, I would tend to think I would have better luck talking to my 4 yr old and getting him to listen. Somehow, Part 97 never enters his mind. I'm changing the receiver to a GE Century receiver, so that should help narrow things down somewhat I hope. - Original Message - From: Rogers, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference Remind the fellow using 100 watts to talk to a repeater that he could be in violation of Part 97 rules on using minimal power. We had a similar situation and interference to our one 2 meter repeater on the mountain and we had to remind the guy of the Laws of Radio Physics, power, distance, and Part 97 !! Ron WW8RR -Original Message- From: Mathew Quaife [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 3:46 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference Well I narrowed down parts of the problem, the first being the wide as a 2x4 Regency receiver, which is going to be changed out, and the other is a local ham using 100 watts to talk to this machine, when in it really only needs about 7 watts to hit it full quieting with minimal antenna height. My repeater actually is just gettting underway, new coordination. So each day is a new adventure for me. Having not played with FM and etcfor about 15 years, still trying to remember, kinda hard to get all the cobwebs out of the brain. Thanks. Mathew - Original Message - From: Virden Clark Beckman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference Try using the math on the IF of your rx to see what is making them mix on your freq, how long have the 2 machines been co-existing on-the-air? If it were one or 2 users you would know it rather than the entire time the machine is active, can you see how clean the signal is from that machine, I doubt if 50 miles is gonna make trouble unless the have some really wide spurs and then every open rx is gonna see some falsing. w9mwq wrote: I have a repeater with an antenna up about 60 feet in the air, Frequency of 146.925/146.325 minus offset. Receiever sensitity is .25 micorovolt at 12DB, seems to be purring along just fine. IFR show the receive to be on frequency. Here's the problem, there is a repeater about 50 air miles away, on the pair of 146.910/146.31o minus offset. There repeater is getting into my receiver, causing the repeater to key up. There is no pl on my repeater at this time. They sound like they are on sideband when they come in. I can goto the 91 machine, hear them talking, when they quit, the interference quits. I took my IFR and inserted a tone on 146.310 into my receiver, it took 15 microvolts to open the squelch of my receiver. Is it my receiver, which is a Regency receiver, or is it the person transmitting on the other machine. I could see if it was the 91 machine if all it was doing was killing my receive, but it's actually keying up the repeater. SO my guess would be it would have to be the person talking on the 91 repeater. I hope I explained this right. Any suggestions. Thanks. Mathew -- 73...Clark Beckman N8PZD Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Alignment
The duplexers are a set of TX/RX duplexers, six of them. When you say a 3db pad, that is something that I am not sure of, is this basically the same thing as a db pad used in CATV systems? All I know is that the duplexers were set up as a Varinotch filter system. Mathew - Original Message - From: Ken Arck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Alignment At 07:40 PM 4/27/2004 -, you wrote: Is there any methods of tuning a set of duplexer without having a Spectrum analyzer. I am in the learning stages again. I have an IFR-500a, so I can generate a signal into them. I know this would work somewhat for the receive, but what does one do for the transmit. ---Why wouldn't it work for transmit? As a matter of fact, it would work just fine by both the receive AND transmit sides of the duplexer. RF is RF, regardless if its -100 Dbm or +10 Dbm, right? Depending on what kind of duplexer is it (BP/BR or just BR) determines the tuning procedure. You might want to check the website to see if yours is listed. One thing though - It's a good idea to use a 3 db pad on the receiver you're using for tuning, since you have no guarantee it will present a 50 ohm load to the duplexer. Oh, and don't forget to make sure a 50 ohm load is on the duplexer port not currently being tuned as well (a 3 db pad would work here as well). Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Be sure to see our products at this year's Dayton Hamvention! Repeater Builders spaces 707 through 710 AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
Rather than re-invent the wheel why not try carving the helical from a dead old high band rx tray and add to the front of yours to make it a bit narrower than it is barefoot, if you can find a mastr2 with 5 helicals you could ad a pre-amp and convert the near hits to misses. Mathew Quaife wrote: Well I narrowed down parts of the problem, the first being the wide as a 2x4 Regency receiver, which is going to be changed out, and the other is a local ham using 100 watts to talk to this machine, when in it really only needs about 7 watts to hit it full quieting with minimal antenna height. My repeater actually is just gettting underway, new coordination. So each day is a new adventure for me. Having not played with FM and etcfor about 15 years, still trying to remember, kinda hard to get all the cobwebs out of the brain. Thanks. Mathew - Original Message - From: Virden Clark Beckman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference Try using the math on the IF of your rx to see what is making them mix on your freq, how long have the 2 machines been co-existing on-the-air? If it were one or 2 users you would know it rather than the entire time the machine is active, can you see how clean the signal is from that machine, I doubt if 50 miles is gonna make trouble unless the have some really wide spurs and then every open rx is gonna see some falsing. -- 73...Clark Beckman N8PZD Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Alignment
At 02:54 PM 4/27/2004 -0500, you wrote: The duplexers are a set of TX/RX duplexers, six of them. When you say a 3db pad, that is something that I am not sure of, is this basically the same thing as a db pad used in CATV systems? ---Yes they are the same CONCEPT, but CATV ones would be 72 (75?) ohm. You, of course, need 50 ohm ones. The idea behind using them is to present an accurate 50 ohm load on the duplexer ports, because a change of load affects the tuning. If you don't have any, I'd suggest begging or borrowing some from a buddy :-) All I know is that the duplexers were set up as a Varinotch filter system. ---If I'm not mistaken, that's a notch type duplexer. Aside from visiting TX/RX's website (to see if you can locate tuning instructions), you might want to check out this link as well: http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/notchduptuning.html Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Be sure to see our products at this year's Dayton Hamvention! Repeater Builders spaces 707 through 710 AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Alignment
You should really be using a return loss bridge and a spectrum analyzer and tracking generatorbut yes I know we can't all afford that equipment. You can fudge by using a signal generator and a receiver, also never never never tune the duplexers under transmitter power. The first thing you need as previously stated is a 3dB pad on the input to your receiver you are going to use as signal strength indicator. You will also need a 50 ohm termination for the unused port of the duplexer during tuning. The pad is similar to those used in cable tv systems...HOWEVER..those pads are 75ohms and you have a 50 ohm system. Step one, Hook your generator to the antenna port and your receiver (with 3dB pad) to either the transmit or receiver port. Terminate the other port (ie: if you are tuning the transmit port, terminate the receiver port). Before you start on the duplexor..hook your signal generator up to your receiver with the 3db pad in line and measure the receiver sensitivity of you receiver (ie: .022uV for 12dB Sinad)this is your reference. In this case we'll say your on the transmit port. The first thing to do is to tune the pass frequency..this is the plunger on each cavity in the transmitter side of the duplexer. Generate just enough signal to start movement of your receiver strength indicator using your transmit frequency. Now tune all the TX cans one at a time for max throughput...max signal strength...you will probably have to continually reduce your output from the generator as you get the unit tuned. Now look at the output level from the generatorhow many dB of insertion loss do you have compared to your receiver performance with the cavities in line. (Assume anywhere from .6 to 1.0 dB per cavity loss)...is this the expected value...if yes the pass is tuned..if not something is wrong. Next you will tune the notches.with everything still connected, now set the generator and receiver to your Notch Frequency (the receiver freq in this case). You can now tune the notches (usually in the little box on top of the coupling loop with a small access hole on the side...use an insulated non-metallic tool). Tune these to attenuate the signal reaching the receiver, one at a time. Now measure the difference between the generator output and the receiver known sensitivity. You should have anywhere between 85 and 100 dB of attenuation. In other words you'll have a huge amount of signal being generated by your signal generator. Now you're done with the transmit side. Now using the same set of instructions but with the frequencies reverseddo the same to the receive side. When both sides are done...go back and check all your measurements again and make sure you didn't screw up. Yes this will not be perfect using this procedure, but I've found you can be within a couple of dB of rejection specs, or as they say good enough for government work until you can beg/borrow/or steal the proper test equipment. Good luck. Gregg R. Lengling, W9DHI, Retired Administrator http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org K2/100 S#3075 KX1 S# 57 Politics is the art of appearing candid and completely open, while concealing as much as possible. -States: The Bene Gesserit View -Original Message- From: Mathew Quaife [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:54 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Alignment The duplexers are a set of TX/RX duplexers, six of them. When you say a 3db pad, that is something that I am not sure of, is this basically the same thing as a db pad used in CATV systems? All I know is that the duplexers were set up as a Varinotch filter system. Mathew - Original Message - From: Ken Arck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Alignment At 07:40 PM 4/27/2004 -, you wrote: Is there any methods of tuning a set of duplexer without having a Spectrum analyzer. I am in the learning stages again. I have an IFR-500a, so I can generate a signal into them. I know this would work somewhat for the receive, but what does one do for the transmit. ---Why wouldn't it work for transmit? As a matter of fact, it would work just fine by both the receive AND transmit sides of the duplexer. RF is RF, regardless if its -100 Dbm or +10 Dbm, right? Depending on what kind of duplexer is it (BP/BR or just BR) determines the tuning procedure. You might want to check the website to see if yours is listed. One thing though - It's a good idea to use a 3 db pad on the receiver you're using for tuning, since you have no guarantee it will present a 50 ohm load to the duplexer. Oh, and don't forget to make sure a 50 ohm load is on the duplexer port not currently being tuned as well (a 3 db pad would work here as well). Ken -- President and CTO -
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Alignment
Ok, most of that I understand, and I know there is the main tuning rod, then there is the reject high and reject low tuning pots, but there is a third tuning rod on these duplexers, what would be thier function. Mathew - Original Message - From: Gregg Lengling [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 3:14 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Alignment You should really be using a return loss bridge and a spectrum analyzer and tracking generatorbut yes I know we can't all afford that equipment. You can fudge by using a signal generator and a receiver, also never never never tune the duplexers under transmitter power. The first thing you need as previously stated is a 3dB pad on the input to your receiver you are going to use as signal strength indicator. You will also need a 50 ohm termination for the unused port of the duplexer during tuning. The pad is similar to those used in cable tv systems...HOWEVER..those pads are 75ohms and you have a 50 ohm system. Step one, Hook your generator to the antenna port and your receiver (with 3dB pad) to either the transmit or receiver port. Terminate the other port (ie: if you are tuning the transmit port, terminate the receiver port). Before you start on the duplexor..hook your signal generator up to your receiver with the 3db pad in line and measure the receiver sensitivity of you receiver (ie: .022uV for 12dB Sinad)this is your reference. In this case we'll say your on the transmit port. The first thing to do is to tune the pass frequency..this is the plunger on each cavity in the transmitter side of the duplexer. Generate just enough signal to start movement of your receiver strength indicator using your transmit frequency. Now tune all the TX cans one at a time for max throughput...max signal strength...you will probably have to continually reduce your output from the generator as you get the unit tuned. Now look at the output level from the generatorhow many dB of insertion loss do you have compared to your receiver performance with the cavities in line. (Assume anywhere from .6 to 1.0 dB per cavity loss)...is this the expected value...if yes the pass is tuned..if not something is wrong. Next you will tune the notches.with everything still connected, now set the generator and receiver to your Notch Frequency (the receiver freq in this case). You can now tune the notches (usually in the little box on top of the coupling loop with a small access hole on the side...use an insulated non-metallic tool). Tune these to attenuate the signal reaching the receiver, one at a time. Now measure the difference between the generator output and the receiver known sensitivity. You should have anywhere between 85 and 100 dB of attenuation. In other words you'll have a huge amount of signal being generated by your signal generator. Now you're done with the transmit side. Now using the same set of instructions but with the frequencies reverseddo the same to the receive side. When both sides are done...go back and check all your measurements again and make sure you didn't screw up. Yes this will not be perfect using this procedure, but I've found you can be within a couple of dB of rejection specs, or as they say good enough for government work until you can beg/borrow/or steal the proper test equipment. Good luck. Gregg R. Lengling, W9DHI, Retired Administrator http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org K2/100 S#3075 KX1 S# 57 Politics is the art of appearing candid and completely open, while concealing as much as possible. -States: The Bene Gesserit View -Original Message- From: Mathew Quaife [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:54 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Alignment The duplexers are a set of TX/RX duplexers, six of them. When you say a 3db pad, that is something that I am not sure of, is this basically the same thing as a db pad used in CATV systems? All I know is that the duplexers were set up as a Varinotch filter system. Mathew - Original Message - From: Ken Arck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Alignment At 07:40 PM 4/27/2004 -, you wrote: Is there any methods of tuning a set of duplexer without having a Spectrum analyzer. I am in the learning stages again. I have an IFR-500a, so I can generate a signal into them. I know this would work somewhat for the receive, but what does one do for the transmit. ---Why wouldn't it work for transmit? As a matter of fact, it would work just fine by both the receive AND transmit sides of the duplexer. RF is RF, regardless if its -100 Dbm or +10 Dbm, right? Depending on what kind of duplexer is it (BP/BR or just BR) determines the tuning procedure.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
Virden Clark Beckman wrote: Rather than re-invent the wheel why not try carving the helical from a dead old high band rx tray and add to the front of yours to make it a bit narrower than it is barefoot, if you can find a mastr2 with 5 helicals you could ad a pre-amp and convert the near hits to misses. The problem isn't the front end-it's the low IF. Regency's just accept more than they should. Sorta like the old Heathkit 2036. The Century will be somewhat of an improvement, but not near as much as a MII or Micor would be. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
No amount of filtering will resolve 2 signals occupying the same overlapping spectrum. Steve Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
I do have a micor coming, just don't know much about it until it get's here. At least I hope that it gets here, kinda shaky on the ebay deal, have not heard from the seller as of yet. Mathew - Original Message - From: Jim B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference Virden Clark Beckman wrote: Rather than re-invent the wheel why not try carving the helical from a dead old high band rx tray and add to the front of yours to make it a bit narrower than it is barefoot, if you can find a mastr2 with 5 helicals you could ad a pre-amp and convert the near hits to misses. The problem isn't the front end-it's the low IF. Regency's just accept more than they should. Sorta like the old Heathkit 2036. The Century will be somewhat of an improvement, but not near as much as a MII or Micor would be. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
Mathew Quaife wrote: I do have a micor coming, just don't know much about it until it get's here. At least I hope that it gets here, kinda shaky on the ebay deal, have not heard from the seller as of yet. Mathew Good luck with it! repeater-builder.com has lots of good info for those. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
If you really love your regency, change the if filter. Tighten up the front end with some extra cavities and a notch. Getting rid of interference is easy, a mix is another ball game. The older commercial radios had some very neat front ends. Stay away from any type of synthesized radio on a mountain top. They are to broad and pass 6 MHz like its next door. Master 2 or Micor is my choice for the hill. Ron WA6UNM -Original Message- From: Virden Clark Beckman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 1:03 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference Rather than re-invent the wheel why not try carving the helical from a dead old high band rx tray and add to the front of yours to make it a bit narrower than it is barefoot, if you can find a mastr2 with 5 helicals you could ad a pre-amp and convert the near hits to misses. Mathew Quaife wrote: Well I narrowed down parts of the problem, the first being the wide as a 2x4 Regency receiver, which is going to be changed out, and the other is a local ham using 100 watts to talk to this machine, when in it really only needs about 7 watts to hit it full quieting with minimal antenna height. My repeater actually is just gettting underway, new coordination. So each day is a new adventure for me. Having not played with FM and etcfor about 15 years, still trying to remember, kinda hard to get all the cobwebs out of the brain. Thanks. Mathew - Original Message - From: Virden Clark Beckman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference Try using the math on the IF of your rx to see what is making them mix on your freq, how long have the 2 machines been co-existing on-the-air? If it were one or 2 users you would know it rather than the entire time the machine is active, can you see how clean the signal is from that machine, I doubt if 50 miles is gonna make trouble unless the have some really wide spurs and then every open rx is gonna see some falsing. -- 73...Clark Beckman N8PZD Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Alignment
No Money for equipment, use a scanner set up on the transmit frequency and align it that way. 20 db method or sinader. nice to have all the fancy stuff but you can get pretty close. Ron WA6UNM -Original Message- From: Gregg Lengling [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 1:14 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Alignment You should really be using a return loss bridge and a spectrum analyzer and tracking generatorbut yes I know we can't all afford that equipment. You can fudge by using a signal generator and a receiver, also never never never tune the duplexers under transmitter power. The first thing you need as previously stated is a 3dB pad on the input to your receiver you are going to use as signal strength indicator. You will also need a 50 ohm termination for the unused port of the duplexer during tuning. The pad is similar to those used in cable tv systems...HOWEVER..those pads are 75ohms and you have a 50 ohm system. Step one, Hook your generator to the antenna port and your receiver (with 3dB pad) to either the transmit or receiver port. Terminate the other port (ie: if you are tuning the transmit port, terminate the receiver port). Before you start on the duplexor..hook your signal generator up to your receiver with the 3db pad in line and measure the receiver sensitivity of you receiver (ie: .022uV for 12dB Sinad)this is your reference. In this case we'll say your on the transmit port. The first thing to do is to tune the pass frequency..this is the plunger on each cavity in the transmitter side of the duplexer. Generate just enough signal to start movement of your receiver strength indicator using your transmit frequency. Now tune all the TX cans one at a time for max throughput...max signal strength...you will probably have to continually reduce your output from the generator as you get the unit tuned. Now look at the output level from the generatorhow many dB of insertion loss do you have compared to your receiver performance with the cavities in line. (Assume anywhere from .6 to 1.0 dB per cavity loss)...is this the expected value...if yes the pass is tuned..if not something is wrong. Next you will tune the notches.with everything still connected, now set the generator and receiver to your Notch Frequency (the receiver freq in this case). You can now tune the notches (usually in the little box on top of the coupling loop with a small access hole on the side...use an insulated non-metallic tool). Tune these to attenuate the signal reaching the receiver, one at a time. Now measure the difference between the generator output and the receiver known sensitivity. You should have anywhere between 85 and 100 dB of attenuation. In other words you'll have a huge amount of signal being generated by your signal generator. Now you're done with the transmit side. Now using the same set of instructions but with the frequencies reverseddo the same to the receive side. When both sides are done...go back and check all your measurements again and make sure you didn't screw up. Yes this will not be perfect using this procedure, but I've found you can be within a couple of dB of rejection specs, or as they say good enough for government work until you can beg/borrow/or steal the proper test equipment. Good luck. Gregg R. Lengling, W9DHI, Retired Administrator http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org K2/100 S#3075 KX1 S# 57 Politics is the art of appearing candid and completely open, while concealing as much as possible. -States: The Bene Gesserit View -Original Message- From: Mathew Quaife [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:54 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Alignment The duplexers are a set of TX/RX duplexers, six of them. When you say a 3db pad, that is something that I am not sure of, is this basically the same thing as a db pad used in CATV systems? All I know is that the duplexers were set up as a Varinotch filter system. Mathew - Original Message - From: Ken Arck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer Alignment At 07:40 PM 4/27/2004 -, you wrote: Is there any methods of tuning a set of duplexer without having a Spectrum analyzer. I am in the learning stages again. I have an IFR-500a, so I can generate a signal into them. I know this would work somewhat for the receive, but what does one do for the transmit. ---Why wouldn't it work for transmit? As a matter of fact, it would work just fine by both the receive AND transmit sides of the duplexer. RF is RF, regardless if its -100 Dbm or +10 Dbm, right? Depending on what kind of duplexer is it (BP/BR or just BR) determines the tuning procedure. You might want to check the website to see if yours is listed. One thing though - It's a good idea
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
Unless the problem ISN'T two signals occupying the same spectrum, and it's just a matter of one receiver hearing outside its 'channel'. Joe M. Steve Bosshard wrote: No amount of filtering will resolve 2 signals occupying the same overlapping spectrum. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
You are right Steve, however I know some receivers are better than others. I just had some more interference, just as I have been passing back and forth, this particular ham is 26 miles west of here, says he is running 10 watts into an antenna 20 feet up, and he sounds just as good on 146.325 as he does on 146.310, and thats into my Kenwood TS2000 wihch has a horizontal beam connected to it for 2 meter SSB. I doubt if the Kenwood is as bad a receiver as the Regency. So I have to say there are some dirty transmitters out there. Well before I go blaming, I will change the receiver, best on my part anyways, and if the problem exist after that, then I will make calls, then seek other action if nothing is resolved. Thanks for all the input. Mathew - Original Message - From: Steve Bosshard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 3:37 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference No amount of filtering will resolve 2 signals occupying the same overlapping spectrum. Steve Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
I do have two more cavities that I could use, but really don't see the need, at least I hope not. Mathew - Original Message - From: Ronald Schiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Cc: Ronald Schiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 3:26 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference If you really love your regency, change the if filter. Tighten up the front end with some extra cavities and a notch. Getting rid of interference is easy, a mix is another ball game. The older commercial radios had some very neat front ends. Stay away from any type of synthesized radio on a mountain top. They are to broad and pass 6 MHz like its next door. Master 2 or Micor is my choice for the hill. Ron WA6UNM -Original Message- From: Virden Clark Beckman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 1:03 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference Rather than re-invent the wheel why not try carving the helical from a dead old high band rx tray and add to the front of yours to make it a bit narrower than it is barefoot, if you can find a mastr2 with 5 helicals you could ad a pre-amp and convert the near hits to misses. Mathew Quaife wrote: Well I narrowed down parts of the problem, the first being the wide as a 2x4 Regency receiver, which is going to be changed out, and the other is a local ham using 100 watts to talk to this machine, when in it really only needs about 7 watts to hit it full quieting with minimal antenna height. My repeater actually is just gettting underway, new coordination. So each day is a new adventure for me. Having not played with FM and etcfor about 15 years, still trying to remember, kinda hard to get all the cobwebs out of the brain. Thanks. Mathew - Original Message - From: Virden Clark Beckman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference Try using the math on the IF of your rx to see what is making them mix on your freq, how long have the 2 machines been co-existing on-the-air? If it were one or 2 users you would know it rather than the entire time the machine is active, can you see how clean the signal is from that machine, I doubt if 50 miles is gonna make trouble unless the have some really wide spurs and then every open rx is gonna see some falsing. -- 73...Clark Beckman N8PZD Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
Yes indeed they do, I have been sent to some of it already. He says he took the crystals out of it, hope that is all that he took. Mathew - Original Message - From: Jim B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 3:54 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference Mathew Quaife wrote: I do have a micor coming, just don't know much about it until it get's here. At least I hope that it gets here, kinda shaky on the ebay deal, have not heard from the seller as of yet. Mathew Good luck with it! repeater-builder.com has lots of good info for those. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Spectrum Analyzer
Would anyone be willing to look at this Spectrum Analyzer and give me thier opinions on it. I realize it's not the IFR or Motorola service monitor with analyzer, but for basic use and it's price, what do you think. It's on ebay, and the transaction number is 3812108141. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Mathew Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
Unless the problem ISN'T two signals occupying the same spectrum, and it's just a matter of one receiver hearing outside its 'channel'. Joe M. 146R325 occupies from 146315 to 146.335 146.310 occupies from 146.300 to 146.320 They SHARE 146.315 to 146.320. The front end will make NO difference. Unless you have a VHF Crystal Filter ahead of the receiver input, and I doubt that would make any difference. Go narrow band and change IF filters and reduce modulation on BOTH systems, or QSY. Best 73, Steve Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
At 4/27/2004 02:00 PM, you wrote: I do have two more cavities that I could use, but really don't see the need, at least I hope not. Mathew Cavity filters will NOT help lessen adjacent-channel interference problems. You said that you can hear this person just as good on 146.325 as you can on 146.310. If his signal is actually intelligible when listening 15 kHz away, it's possible that his TX has +/- 15 kHz spurs. I know this can happen to a Kenwood TR-7950 PA if the potentiometers in the PA section are messed with. They aren't just for power adjustment or SWR protection! Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference
He did not tell me which radio he was using, just that it was a Kenwood, his audio was quite wide as well compared to other users that was on the system at the time. Getting him to beleive his transmitter is spurious would be hard to do. If it continues after the changes and completion of the repeater, then I will have to make necessary calls then. Hopefully not. Thanks. Mathew - Original Message - From: Bob Dengler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help on Interference At 4/27/2004 02:00 PM, you wrote: I do have two more cavities that I could use, but really don't see the need, at least I hope not. Mathew Cavity filters will NOT help lessen adjacent-channel interference problems. You said that you can hear this person just as good on 146.325 as you can on 146.310. If his signal is actually intelligible when listening 15 kHz away, it's possible that his TX has +/- 15 kHz spurs. I know this can happen to a Kenwood TR-7950 PA if the potentiometers in the PA section are messed with. They aren't just for power adjustment or SWR protection! Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Spectrum Analyzer
It's a very nice toy, but not something really usable for the truely serious two-way radio person. Better to buy a used service monitor with the spectrum analyzer and tracking generator built in. Just be sure to buy from someone with references (ie more than one posted on the web). The extra monies spent for refurbished pro test equipment is a mo betta' cheers skipp www.radiowrench.com w9mwq [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would anyone be willing to look at this Spectrum Analyzer and give me thier opinions on it. I realize it's not the IFR or Motorola service monitor with analyzer, but for basic use and it's price, what do you think. It's on ebay, and the transaction number is 3812108141. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Mathew Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
