[Repeater-Builder] Re: Wireless Auto Patch

[Coy Hilton]

Mathew,
These things in general have been on the market sence before 1995. I 
was a hardware and software design engineer for a well known alarm 
company back then and we had a product that would do the same thing 
for the Motorola "bag phone" One could use the bag phone as a 
secondary "phone line" in case the primary phone line went down for 
any reason.
Coy


--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mathew Quaife <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Very interesting, wonder how long this has been on the market?  I 
was told about a year ago that it could not be done?  As we learn 
something new each day.  A very interesting product, could come in 
handy for a lot of my people whom are tied to a wire due to the 
coverage in their area.  Thanks for pointing that out.
>
>   Mathew
>   
> 
> Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   Tim Horvath wrote:
> > I have a repeater in a remote aera with no phone service. Can I 
use a 
> > Cell Phone and interface it to my cat-1000 controller? If so 
How? I 
> > want it to receive and send calls. Thanks, Tim
> 
> If your CAT-1000 controller has a regular autopatch on it, 
something 
> like this might be useful:
> 
> http://www.phonelabs.com/prd05.asp
> 
> There are a few companies making these, and they're popular in 
Europe 
> where many people don't bother having a land-line phone anymore -- 
they 
> just drop the cell in one of these when they get home.
> 
> Never tried it myself, but looks like it would work fine, if the 
cell 
> coverage is good at your repeater site.
> 
> Nate WY0X
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Looking for data on old heliax

[Jeff DePolo]

> Hey Jeff-  Just last year I had a similar problem.  The first 
> thing we did was look through the old engineering data for 
> the site.  In most cases, the sample lines should all be the 
> same length, so if you shoot the lines to the other tower(s) 
> with the TDR you can compute your own VF for the coax.  We 
> did not have this data, and in my case, the coax to the other 
> two towers proved to be not the same length, so, time to punt.

This isn't my project, it's my buddy's.  From what I gather, the engineering
records are incomplete in those details.  He estimates the cable was laid in
1974, and was buried directly (1/4" cable buried directly in the ground in
upstate New York - frost heave is gonna git ya if moisture ingress
doesn't!).  I'm not sure if he even knows at this point if they were
equal-length sample lines...

--- Jeff





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Deviation

[scomind]

Hi Chas,
 
> Shouldn't the touch tone pad tone be set at the maximum deviation or 
> nearly so?
 
No, and here's the explanation:
 
1. The pre-emphasis in your transmitter causes the tone with the higher 
freq to deviate more than the other tone (for example, the 1477 Hz 
tone will deviate more than twice as much as the 697 Hz tone).
 
If the DTMF level is too high, its waveform will be clipped in the 
transmitter -- and the higher-freq tone will be clipped more 
than the lower-freq tone because of the pre-emphasis.
 
At the receiving end, de-emphasis restores flat response -- 
but it causes the higher-freq tone to now be lower in level than 
the other tone. If this "twist" (difference in level between the two tones) 
is great enough, the decoder won't recognize the DTMF as valid.
 
2. You can end up with 'DTMF intermod'. The star (*) is 941 
Hz plus 1209 Hz. If you multiply 1209 by two and subtract 941, you get 
1477. The pound (#) is 941 Hz and 1477 Hz. That means if the system 
has distortion, you can end up with the decoder seeing (*) and (#) at the same 
time.
 
So, it's important to keep the DTMF level below the transmitter's 
clipping point.
 
73,
Bob 
 
Bob Schmid, 
WA9FBO, MemberS-COM, LLCPO Box 1546LaPorte CO 
80535-1546970-416-6505 voice970-419-3222 
faxwww.scomcontrollers.com













  




  
  
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Digest Number 3483

[Dave Frechette]

Some ham friends of mine have these devices and they work great for just the thing you want to do.Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com wrote:  There are 3 messages in this issue.Topics in this digest:1. Re: DeviationFrom: Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>2. Re: Wireless Auto PatchFrom: Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>3. Re: Wireless Auto PatchFrom: Mike Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Message: 1 Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 01:01:03 -0700From: Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: Re: DeviationKen Arck wrote:> At 05:30 PM 12/2/2005 -0500, you wrote:> >> Shouldn't the touch tone pad tone be set at the maximum deviation
 or >> nearly so? > > <---I've always found around 3 Khz to be the correct point for most> decoders/controllers. You mileage may, of course, vary.> > Those are steady and not subject to peaks. Also I take >> it the max deviation should be set with a 1Khz audio tone applied>> > <--Best to check with the manufacturer's spec, although most I know of spec> a 1 Khz tone, yep.An interesting exercise is to "sweep" your audio path by doing various tones and see if your repeater's audio path has a "slope" to it.Certain to-remain-un-named controllers are rumored to have an inappropriate value published in their RC circuit for de-emphasizing audio if they're being fed by a discriminator.1 KHz is the "usual" test point, but there's nothing stopping someone from setting 1 KHz to whatever deviation their controller/repeater manufacturer recommends and then measuring and
 plotting 440 Hz, 800 Hz, 1200 Hz, 1800 Hz, 2200 Hz, etc.Sometimes you find out why your repeater sounds "funny", doing experiments like that. :-) Link radios -- you can do the same thing.Nate WY0XMessage: 2 Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 01:13:59 -0700From: Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: Re: Wireless Auto PatchTim Horvath wrote:> I have a repeater in a remote aera with no phone service. Can I use a > Cell Phone and interface it to my cat-1000 controller? If so How? I > want it to receive and send calls. Thanks, TimIf your CAT-1000 controller has a regular autopatch on it, something like this might be useful:http://www.phonelabs.com/prd05.aspThere are a few companies making these, and they're popular in Europe where many
 people don't bother having a land-line phone anymore -- they just drop the cell in one of these when they get home.Never tried it myself, but looks like it would work fine, if the cell coverage is good at your repeater site.Nate WY0XMessage: 3 Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 00:23:45 -0800From: Mike Morris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: Re: Wireless Auto PatchAt 10:02 PM 12/2/05, you wrote:>I have a repeater in a remote aera with no phone service. Can I use a>Cell Phone and interface it to my cat-1000 controller? If so How? I>want it to receive and send calls. Thanks, TimThere is no reason that you can't link a phone line into your repeater.Besides it saves paying an additional cellphone bill:Or if you do want a commercial product, youwill have to dedicate a cellphone to it:A friend of mine has one with the bluetooth adapter.When he arrives at home he simply plugs the cellphoneinto the charger and lays it next to the unit. The cellphoneappears as line #3 on every phone in the house. He isforced into using this device since the cellphone coveragesucks in his neighborhood - the front bedroom on thesecond floor is the only place he can receive or makea call.Mike WA6ILQYahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wireless Auto Patch

[Eric Lemmon]

Tim,

Several burglar alarm manufacturers offer a duplex wireless link that is
essentially the guts of a bare-bones cellular phone in a metal box with all
of the audio and control lines brought out to a connector.  Such devices
are similar in concept to the "data radios" that are used in SCADA systems,
and which incorporate a single-channel circuit board normally used in a
portable radio.

ENG journalists use a similar device to send taped interview audio back to
the studio when it's impractical to elevate the link antenna from a remote
truck.  Distributors of broadcasting equipment carry several versions of
this link radio.

Finally, the vendors of automatic vehicle location systems use
off-the-shelf cellular link radios to periodically send and receive
location and assignment data.  Although most of these radios carry digital
data, the ones I have seen are also available in models that handle two-way
voice.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY


> Tim Horvath wrote:

> I have a repeater in a remote area with no phone service.  Can I use a
> cell phone and interface it to my CAT-1000 controller?  If so, how?  I
> want it to receive and send calls.  Thanks, Tim






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wireless Auto Patch

[Bob M.]

Another product is called a CellSocket. I don't think
it accepts as many phones as the one pointed out by
other posters, but it's been around for at least 3
years, maybe longer. Depending on the phone, there
were some things it would not do, such as access
voice-mail or do caller-ID. Motorola and Nokia seem to
be the most popular phones to have such devices made
for them.

Some of these also provide for an external antenna on
the phone which helps boost the signal.

Bob M.
==
--- Mathew Quaife <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Very interesting, wonder how long this has been on
> the market?  I was told about a year ago that it
> could not be done?  As we learn something new each
> day.  A very interesting product, could come in
> handy for a lot of my people whom are tied to a wire
> due to the coverage in their area.  Thanks for
> pointing that out.
>
>   Mathew
>   
> 
> Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   Tim Horvath wrote:
> > I have a repeater in a remote aera with no phone
> service. Can I use a 
> > Cell Phone and interface it to my cat-1000
> controller? If so How? I 
> > want it to receive and send calls. Thanks, Tim
> 
> If your CAT-1000 controller has a regular autopatch
> on it, something 
> like this might be useful:
> 
> http://www.phonelabs.com/prd05.asp
> 
> There are a few companies making these, and they're
> popular in Europe 
> where many people don't bother having a land-line
> phone anymore -- they 
> just drop the cell in one of these when they get
> home.
> 
> Never tried it myself, but looks like it would work
> fine, if the cell 
> coverage is good at your repeater site.
> 
> Nate WY0X



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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wireless Auto Patch

[Mathew Quaife]

Very interesting, wonder how long this has been on the market?  I was told about a year ago that it could not be done?  As we learn something new each day.  A very interesting product, could come in handy for a lot of my people whom are tied to a wire due to the coverage in their area.  Thanks for pointing that out.     Mathew  Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Tim Horvath wrote:> I have a repeater in a remote aera with no phone service. Can I use a > Cell Phone and interface it to my cat-1000 controller? If so How? I > want it to receive and send calls. Thanks, TimIf your CAT-1000 controller has a regular autopatch on it, something like this might be useful:http://www.phonelabs.com/prd05.aspThere are a few companies making these, and
 they're popular in Europe where many people don't bother having a land-line phone anymore -- they just drop the cell in one of these when they get home.Never tried it myself, but looks like it would work fine, if the cell coverage is good at your repeater site.Nate WY0XYahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/  
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Tuning tools

[Mark A. Holman]

Tuning tools if you live near a big city unless you prefer give Mouser, 
Digi-Key a try.   forget the local cell-shack they sell a pocket 
protector set which is ok but I think you might find GC electronics 
makes a pro set I won a tool at a christmas party 2 yrs ago but never 
had to use it lately, still in the package  :-)

mark h.

Ronnie & Steve Rice wrote:

>Hi, Can someone tell me where the best place is to find tuning tools 
>for the Motorola Micors coils? I am not sure of the size of the hex in 
>the receiver except none of mine fit(too small) Wanted to order some 
>new ones but wanted to be sure to get the right size or sizes. Oh and 
>the gentleman that made a comment about where he buys crystals from 
>and Jan was a no-no was a little too late for me! Waiting on the 
>second round of transmit crystals ! Hmmm good advice! Thanks Steve 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wireless Auto Patch

[Mike Morris]

At 10:02 PM 12/2/05, you wrote:

>I have a repeater in a remote aera with no phone service. Can I use a
>Cell Phone and interface it to my cat-1000 controller? If so How? I
>want it to receive and send calls.  Thanks, Tim

There is no reason that you can't link a phone line into your repeater.
Besides it saves paying an additional cellphone bill:


Or if you do want a commercial product, you
will have to dedicate a cellphone to it:


A friend of mine has one with the bluetooth adapter.
When he arrives at home he simply plugs the cellphone
into the charger and lays it next to the unit.  The cellphone
appears as line #3 on every phone in the house.  He is
forced into using this device since the cellphone coverage
sucks in his neighborhood - the front bedroom on the
second floor is the only place he can receive or make
a call.

Mike WA6ILQ





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wireless Auto Patch

[Nate Duehr]

Tim Horvath wrote:
> I have a repeater in a remote aera with no phone service. Can I use a 
> Cell Phone and interface it to my cat-1000 controller? If so How? I 
> want it to receive and send calls.  Thanks, Tim

If your CAT-1000 controller has a regular autopatch on it, something 
like this might be useful:

http://www.phonelabs.com/prd05.asp

There are a few companies making these, and they're popular in Europe 
where many people don't bother having a land-line phone anymore -- they 
just drop the cell in one of these when they get home.

Never tried it myself, but looks like it would work fine, if the cell 
coverage is good at your repeater site.

Nate WY0X




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Deviation

[Nate Duehr]

Ken Arck wrote:
> At 05:30 PM 12/2/2005 -0500, you wrote:
> 
>> Shouldn't the touch tone pad tone be set at the maximum deviation or 
>> nearly so?  
> 
> <---I've always found around 3 Khz to be the correct point for most
> decoders/controllers. You mileage may, of course, vary.
> 
> Those are steady and not subject to peaks.  Also I take 
>> it the max deviation should be set  with a 1Khz audio tone applied>
> 
> <--Best to check with the manufacturer's spec, although most I know of spec
> a 1 Khz tone, yep.

An interesting exercise is to "sweep" your audio path by doing various 
tones and see if your repeater's audio path has a "slope" to it.

Certain to-remain-un-named controllers are rumored to have an 
inappropriate value published in their RC circuit for de-emphasizing 
audio if they're being fed by a discriminator.

1 KHz is the "usual" test point, but there's nothing stopping someone 
from setting 1 KHz to whatever deviation their controller/repeater 
manufacturer recommends and then measuring and plotting 440 Hz, 800 Hz, 
1200 Hz, 1800 Hz, 2200 Hz, etc.

Sometimes you find out why your repeater sounds "funny", doing 
experiments like that.  :-)  Link radios -- you can do the same thing.

Nate WY0X




 
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