[Repeater-Builder] Re: color tv antennas

2005-12-21 Thread John Everson 
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Chris Huber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Come on Guys!
> 
> I just want to know how to get HDTV on my repeater.  :-)
> 
> Chris N6ICW
> 
>
Don't get too excited Chris. I have HDTV on my repeater and it really 
messes with the 11 meter remote base...

John







 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread albemarle7 





Great idea (I hope) using a dual RF directional coupler as a Return Loss 
Bridge. We have a Bird dual coupler. Just hook up two Bird 43 slugs and meters 
and wham bam, tune away on low power of course. Or maybe some people have a dual 
needle wattmeter which would work well also? Cool beans.
Gary  K2UQ
 













  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Vanity call resumes

2005-12-21 Thread N9WYS 










If you go onto the FCC’s ULS page
and drill down to the amateur licensing, there are the steps there to apply for
a vanity call…  It’s not that difficult – I did it for a club
I belong to.  (Will County Emergency Management Amateurs – we got call
sign W9WIL.)  The main thing the
FCC is interested in is your .  J

 

Mark – N9WYS

 









From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Mark A. Holman
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005
9:15 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder]
Re: Vanity call resumes



 

If anyone read the notice the owner of that web page
is no longer interested in running the web page so it may go out someday unless
someone bought it .

wn1b8 wrote: 

Go to www.vanityhq.com. All the info you need is there. Scott Madison, WN1B  --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Maire-Radios" [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  

how do you get a vanity call sign?  could you please give me a 

little info?  

thanks  - Original Message - From: "N9WYS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 7:17 PMSubject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Vanity call resumes  

They discontinued after the hurricane problems along the Gulf   



coast -   



mainlybecause many hams in that area couldn't renew licenses and/or   



apply for  



vanity call signs for a while. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message-From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com[mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim B.Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 4:18 PMTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vanity call resumes Coy Hilton wrote:   

FCC processing of Vanity Calls scheduled to resume January 4 





2006.  





73AC0Y    

didn't know they stopped. can't imagine why they would either...(not that it matters to me anyway)-- Jim BarbourWD8CHL  Yahoo! Groups Links  Yahoo! Groups Links 



  Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:    [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/   

















  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning info from Eagle

2005-12-21 Thread albemarle7 





Eric/Skipp/Jeff and other guru's.Thank you for the great information 
and suggestions on duplexer tuning. I downloaded 'Duplexer Tuning Using the 
EAGLE Return Loss Bridge' instruction sheet and find it very informative. Maybe 
this old dog can learn some new tricks. Nice Repeater-Builder site - good 
group.
 Seasons Greetings to all.
Gary  K2UQ
Trenton, NJ
 













  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread albemarle7 





Skipp.Thank you for the info on duplexer tuning with RF power 
change. Interesting. Maybe expansion of the actual can due to heat vs Invar 
rods?
Gary
 













  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Repeater-Builder] Telewave 400-512Mhz 250Watt Duplexer

2005-12-21 Thread Jerry 
Title: Telewave 400-512Mhz 250Watt Duplexer








Model  TPRD-4544.  Excellent condition.  List over $1360,  Sell for $400  Super buy for someone!


Jerry   WB6NYS  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
















  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Repeater-Builder] Icom 144, 220, 440 Band Units

2005-12-21 Thread Jerry 
Title: Icom 144, 220, 440 Band Units








Pictures on Request  Good condition.  $225 each or all for $600


Jerry  WB6NYS  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
















  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Repeater-Builder] Repeaters, 220 & 440

2005-12-21 Thread Jerry 
Title: Repeaters,  220 & 440








220 = Hamtronics TX/RX with Xtal Ovens, Rack Mount

$300


440 = GE master pro RX and Hamtronics RX,  Rack Mount

$200


Have RC-96 Controller Loaded with everything also.


Jerry WB6NYS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
















  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread Mark A. Holman 






just look at each TV Station Channel assignment  I'll give the Grand
Rapids, MI approximates  so bear with me,

WWMT Ch. 2 Digital, Ch. 3 Analog
WOOD   Ch  7 Digital, Ch. 8 Analog,  CH. 41 Analog ( its call is WOTV,
and simulcasts )
this one is also simlucast LPTV analog and studio cotrols another LPTV
called Urban TV owned by LIN Television
WZZM TV 12 Digital, CH. 13 Analog
WXMI Ch. 17 Analog, and Ch. 19 Digital ( FOX network ) 

you may have to plug in Broadcasting try http://www.broadcast.net 

also Society of Broadcast Engineers  http://www.sbe.org

that has lots of links and keep you surfin til the cows come home  :-) 

if You want into Broadcast Career lots of jobs and BTW Join SBE !

Merry Christmas


Toby wrote:

  
  
  
  hi just got me a hdtv at mal mart
with hdtv tuner build inside.
   i get the best tv picture  i every
had. here  ..
   at what freqency in the uhf band is
the hdtv send on...
   cant seem to find it anywhere  on
the internet...???
   
  i useing  a homebuild uhf ant with a
pre amp..
    would like to build the ant for
for the hdtv frequency..?
    toby...n9fdf
   
















  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  








begin:vcard
fn:Mark A. Holman
n:Holman;Mark A.
org:Harvest Assembly of God
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Webmaster, IT Student
note;quoted-printable:IT, Member IEEE, Life Member ARRL, Assoc. Member SBE, CRO=0D=0A=
	Welcome to the Snowy stuff of Michigan=0D=0A=
	
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
url:http://www.ab8ru.org
version:2.1
end:vcard

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Radio Shack 10% Off Coupon good to 12/23

2005-12-21 Thread Mark A. Holman 






maybe from 1990 may beee

vmckever wrote:

  Are they still black and white Neil?  Just could not pass that up

Vincent N6OA
- Original Message - 
From: "Neil McKie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Radio Shack 10% Off Coupon good to 12/23


  
  
 I used to have a RCA TV ... was a black and white ... got it back 
in the late fifties.  

 Now I have a Sony, a Toshiba and a couple of others too. 

 Neil 




  "Mark A. Holman" wrote:

Say I did see a AKAI TV set there seems like they are venturing 
the consumer mkt. also Sams Club carries AKAI also.

I already have a RCA TV

Neil McKie wrote:

  
  
  May work ok ... if you bother going to radio shaft at all ...

  Neil - WA6KLA

Mike Morris wrote:




  
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 22:21:38 -
Subject: Radio Shack 10% Off Coupon

http://www.radioshack.com/graphics/email/RSK_12_16_05_1.html

Expires 23 December



  





Yahoo! Groups Links











  
  --
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

   +  Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web.

   +  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

   +  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
 Service.

--
  






Yahoo! Groups Links






  
  



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




  















  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  








begin:vcard
fn:Mark A. Holman
n:Holman;Mark A.
org:Harvest Assembly of God
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Webmaster, IT Student
note;quoted-printable:IT, Member IEEE, Life Member ARRL, Assoc. Member SBE, CRO=0D=0A=
	Welcome to the Snowy stuff of Michigan=0D=0A=
	
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
url:http://www.ab8ru.org
version:2.1
end:vcard

Re: [Repeater-Builder] cadillac,mi tower space needed

2005-12-21 Thread Mark A. Holman 
Brad;
  Are you in Cadillac, MI.  ?  there was a attempt to put a UHF 
Business courtsey system between Big Rapids, Grand Rapids, and Cadillac 
all I heard was the color of money mentioned check with W8HVG Abe in GR 
via. Independent Repeater Assn. & the Repeater Coordinators you may want 
to look the facts 1st.

Mark AB8RU
Allegan Co. MI.

w8qpo wrote:

>hello group,
> i am looking for tower space around cadillac mi to put an ham 
>repeater i am trying to link across mich and am having a hard time 
>finding willing tower owners this area this is all nonprofit and out 
>of our pockets i have the equipment just need space  for vhf / uhf any 
>input is welcome  thanks brad   w8qpo  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 
begin:vcard
fn:Mark A. Holman
n:Holman;Mark A.
org:Harvest Assembly of God
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Webmaster, IT Student
note;quoted-printable:IT, Member IEEE, Life Member ARRL, Assoc. Member SBE, CRO=0D=0A=
	Welcome to the Snowy stuff of Michigan=0D=0A=
	
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
url:http://www.ab8ru.org
version:2.1
end:vcard

[Repeater-Builder] WANTED

2005-12-21 Thread Captainlance 





I am looking for several Motorola TLN8381 PL reeds, 
136.5 Hz. for a voter project... Please contact me if you have them to sell or 
trade.
Lance N2HBA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 













  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Vanity call resumes

2005-12-21 Thread Mark A. Holman 






If anyone read the notice the owner of that web page is no longer
interested in running the web page so it may go out someday unless
someone bought it .

wn1b8 wrote:

  Go to www.vanityhq.com. All the info you need is there.

Scott Madison, WN1B


--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Maire-Radios"  wrote:
  
  
how do you get a vanity call sign?  could you please give me a 

  
  little info?
  
  
thanks


- Original Message - 
From: "N9WYS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 7:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Vanity call resumes




  They discontinued after the hurricane problems along the Gulf 
  

  
  coast - 
  
  

  mainly
because many hams in that area couldn't renew licenses and/or 
  

  
  apply for
  
  

  vanity call signs for a while.

Mark - N9WYS

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim B.
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 4:18 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vanity call resumes

Coy Hilton wrote:

  
  
FCC processing of Vanity Calls scheduled to resume January 4 

  

  
  2006.
  
  

  
73
AC0Y

  
  didn't know they stopped. can't imagine why they would either...
(not that it matters to me anyway)
-- 
Jim Barbour
WD8CHL






Yahoo! Groups Links














Yahoo! Groups Links







  

  
  








 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 




  















  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



  








begin:vcard
fn:Mark A. Holman
n:Holman;Mark A.
org:Harvest Assembly of God
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Webmaster, IT Student
note;quoted-printable:IT, Member IEEE, Life Member ARRL, Assoc. Member SBE, CRO=0D=0A=
	Welcome to the Snowy stuff of Michigan=0D=0A=
	
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
url:http://www.ab8ru.org
version:2.1
end:vcard

Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread Hap Griffin 

- Original Message - 
From: "mch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant 


> And my reply was 'isn't directional better for ANYTHING?' (not just DTV)
> 
> Joe M.
> 

OK...I see what you meant now...yes, I agree.

Hap







 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Repeater-Builder] cadillac,mi tower space needed

2005-12-21 Thread w8qpo 
hello group,
 i am looking for tower space around cadillac mi to put an ham 
repeater i am trying to link across mich and am having a hard time 
finding willing tower owners this area this is all nonprofit and out 
of our pockets i have the equipment just need space  for vhf / uhf any 
input is welcome  thanks brad   w8qpo  







 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Repeater-Builder] Re: color tv antennas

2005-12-21 Thread skipp025 
> mch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> OK, then can you explain how 'color' antennas have 
> more bandwidth?
> Joe M.

Nope... 

If your interest is peaked, try looking up Color TV 
Antenna work by Oliver Swan. 

s. 

[paste]
>>> So your point is that the B&W antennas only cover 
>>> segments of each channel while the color antennas 
>>> cover the entire 6 MHz segment?
>> Nope...  not what I posted...










 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: color tv antennas

2005-12-21 Thread mch 
OK, then can you explain how 'color' antennas have more bandwidth?

Joe M.

skipp025 wrote:
> 
> >  mch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Skipp,
> > Usually I would not argue with you, but..
> 
> > So your point is that the B&W antennas only cover segments of each
> > channel while the color antennas cover the entire 6 MHz segment?
> 
> Nope...  not what I posted...





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread mch 
And my reply was 'isn't directional better for ANYTHING?' (not just DTV)

Joe M.

Hap Griffin wrote:
> 
> Yes...I believe that's what I said.  Directional is better for DTV.
> 
> Hap Griffin
> WZ4O
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "mch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 1:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant 
> 
> > Wouldn't that be equivallent to 'ghosting' on analog TV?
> >
> > Wouldn't directional antennas be better for that reason?
> >
> > Joe M.
> >
> > Hap Griffin wrote:
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "mch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: 
> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 7:48 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant 
> >>
> >> > You know, this subject (mail subject line) reminds me of the stories I
> >> > was told about them coming out with antennas for *COLOR* TV that were
> >> > interpreted to be different from B&W TV antennas. Supposedly, for color
> >> > TV you needed a Color TV antenna.
> >> >
> >> > B&W TV, Color TV, HDTV... they ALL use the same frequencies and the
> >> > same
> >> > antennas would work equally well.
> >> >
> >> > Joe M.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Yes, that is true, to a point.  The 8VSB modulation used by DTV is prone
> >> to
> >> multipath interference.  This is easily seen with a spectrum analyzer
> >> when
> >> turning an antenna...multipath will show up as a notch (or multiple
> >> notches)
> >> in what is supposed to be a flat noise-like energy spectrum form the DTV
> >> transmitter.  Depending on where the notch is in the spectrum and its
> >> depth,
> >> the digital decoder and loose lock on the signal with the result being
> >> the
> >> dreaded blue TV screen.  Thus, the best DTV performance is from antennas
> >> that are more directional which reject any off-axis multipath signals
> >> better.  Multipath is why indoor antenna reception of DTV is so touchy.
> >> However, the later generations of tuner chipsets are getting much better
> >> at
> >> multipath compensation.
> >>
> >> Hap Griffin
> >> VP-Engineering
> >> SCETV
> >>
> >>
> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread Hap Griffin 

- Original Message - 
From: "Jim B." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant 


>>
>> Actually, it requires considerably less signal than analog TV (color or
>> B&W).  The coding gains of digital allow it to operate much closer to the
>> noise floor than analog.  If you look at the power assignments of 
>> television
>> broadcast stations, the DTV power to replicate coverage is in nearly all
>> cases much less, unless the analog station is on VHF and the paired DTV
>> station is on UHF.  For instance, I am the CE for an eleven station
>> network...most of our megewatt UHF analog stations are coverage matched 
>> very
>> well by their 50 KW digital counterparts.  The rule of thumb is that 
>> average
>> digital power is 12 dB less than peak analog power.
>>
>> Hap Griffin
>> WZ4O
>
> Not gonna argue-experience has shown the DTV's need a much better
> installation on the recieve end-across the board (VHF or UHF).
> And not just directionality either.
> -eos-
> -- 
> Jim Barbour
> WD8CHL
>

Agreed...a crappy installation with mis-terminations on the dividers, etc. 
providing echos within the distribution system can wreck DTV reception.  But 
in a proper installation, much less power is usually required.

I can't believe it's been now almost 5 years to the month since putting my 
network's first DTV station on the air (the first one in South Carolina and 
the first to be transcoded onto digital cable...also the first to beta test 
the TCI wideband slot antenna).  My eleventh and last goes on air in 
January.

Hap Griffin
WZ4O







 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Repeater-Builder] Re: color tv antennas

2005-12-21 Thread skipp025 
>  mch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Skipp,
> Usually I would not argue with you, but..

> So your point is that the B&W antennas only cover segments of each
> channel while the color antennas cover the entire 6 MHz segment?

Nope...  not what I posted... 

> IOW, the B&W are resonant every 6 MHz, but not continuous?
> Or... (resonance plots in ASCII graphic form)
> B&W: 54 MHz '''\___/'''\___/'''\___/'\___/'''\___/''' 88 MHz
> Color: 54 MHz _ 88 MHz
> While that is technically possible, I find it very unlikely.
> Joe M.

If you have real interest in the subject, try looking up 
the work on color tv antennas by Oliver Swan. He also had 
a reported number of patents on the color tv antenna designs.

cheers,
skipp 







 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread JOHN MACKEY 
This makes sense.

I am the Chief Engineer of an FM station that recently converted to
IBOC (thus having BOTH analog & digital).  We use the SAME antenna for both
our analog & digital transmissions & notice that the coverage of analog
compared to digital is very similar.  In FM IBOC, the digital signal is 20 DB
below the analog (or 1% of the analog).

-- Original Message --
Received: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 03:41:09 PM CST
From: "Hap Griffin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Actually, it requires considerably less signal than analog TV (color or 
> B&W).  The coding gains of digital allow it to operate much closer to the 
> noise floor than analog.  If you look at the power assignments of television

> broadcast stations, the DTV power to replicate coverage is in nearly all 
> cases much less, unless the analog station is on VHF and the paired DTV 
> station is on UHF.  For instance, I am the CE for an eleven station 
> network...most of our megewatt UHF analog stations are coverage matched very

> well by their 50 KW digital counterparts.  The rule of thumb is that average

> digital power is 12 dB less than peak analog power.
> 
> Hap Griffin
> WZ4O 






 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread Jim B. 
Hap Griffin wrote:

> - Original Message - 
> From: "Jim B." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant 
> 
> 
> 
>>mch wrote:
>>
>>
>>>You know, this subject (mail subject line) reminds me of the stories I
>>>was told about them coming out with antennas for *COLOR* TV that were
>>>interpreted to be different from B&W TV antennas. Supposedly, for color
>>>TV you needed a Color TV antenna.
>>>
>>>B&W TV, Color TV, HDTV... they ALL use the same frequencies and the same
>>>antennas would work equally well.
>>>
>>>Joe M.
>>
>>The only difference is that color requires more signal then b&w, and
>>digital requires more signal then color. (Just like stereo FM requires
>>more signal then mono.) Hence the fact, if one looked, that "color"
>>antennas were just higher gain, and "digital" antennas are more gain yet.
>>
>>-- 
>>Jim Barbour
>>WD8CHL
> 
> 
> Actually, it requires considerably less signal than analog TV (color or 
> B&W).  The coding gains of digital allow it to operate much closer to the 
> noise floor than analog.  If you look at the power assignments of television 
> broadcast stations, the DTV power to replicate coverage is in nearly all 
> cases much less, unless the analog station is on VHF and the paired DTV 
> station is on UHF.  For instance, I am the CE for an eleven station 
> network...most of our megewatt UHF analog stations are coverage matched very 
> well by their 50 KW digital counterparts.  The rule of thumb is that average 
> digital power is 12 dB less than peak analog power.
> 
> Hap Griffin
> WZ4O 

Not gonna argue-experience has shown the DTV's need a much better 
installation on the recieve end-across the board (VHF or UHF).
And not just directionality either.
-eos-
-- 
Jim Barbour
WD8CHL





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread Hap Griffin 
Yes...I believe that's what I said.  Directional is better for DTV.

Hap Griffin
WZ4O

- Original Message - 
From: "mch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant 


> Wouldn't that be equivallent to 'ghosting' on analog TV?
>
> Wouldn't directional antennas be better for that reason?
>
> Joe M.
>
> Hap Griffin wrote:
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "mch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: 
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 7:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant 
>>
>> > You know, this subject (mail subject line) reminds me of the stories I
>> > was told about them coming out with antennas for *COLOR* TV that were
>> > interpreted to be different from B&W TV antennas. Supposedly, for color
>> > TV you needed a Color TV antenna.
>> >
>> > B&W TV, Color TV, HDTV... they ALL use the same frequencies and the 
>> > same
>> > antennas would work equally well.
>> >
>> > Joe M.
>> >
>>
>> Yes, that is true, to a point.  The 8VSB modulation used by DTV is prone 
>> to
>> multipath interference.  This is easily seen with a spectrum analyzer 
>> when
>> turning an antenna...multipath will show up as a notch (or multiple 
>> notches)
>> in what is supposed to be a flat noise-like energy spectrum form the DTV
>> transmitter.  Depending on where the notch is in the spectrum and its 
>> depth,
>> the digital decoder and loose lock on the signal with the result being 
>> the
>> dreaded blue TV screen.  Thus, the best DTV performance is from antennas
>> that are more directional which reject any off-axis multipath signals
>> better.  Multipath is why indoor antenna reception of DTV is so touchy.
>> However, the later generations of tuner chipsets are getting much better 
>> at
>> multipath compensation.
>>
>> Hap Griffin
>> VP-Engineering
>> SCETV
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> 





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread Hap Griffin 

- Original Message - 
From: "Jim B." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant 


> mch wrote:
>
>> You know, this subject (mail subject line) reminds me of the stories I
>> was told about them coming out with antennas for *COLOR* TV that were
>> interpreted to be different from B&W TV antennas. Supposedly, for color
>> TV you needed a Color TV antenna.
>>
>> B&W TV, Color TV, HDTV... they ALL use the same frequencies and the same
>> antennas would work equally well.
>>
>> Joe M.
>
> The only difference is that color requires more signal then b&w, and
> digital requires more signal then color. (Just like stereo FM requires
> more signal then mono.) Hence the fact, if one looked, that "color"
> antennas were just higher gain, and "digital" antennas are more gain yet.
>
> -- 
> Jim Barbour
> WD8CHL

Actually, it requires considerably less signal than analog TV (color or 
B&W).  The coding gains of digital allow it to operate much closer to the 
noise floor than analog.  If you look at the power assignments of television 
broadcast stations, the DTV power to replicate coverage is in nearly all 
cases much less, unless the analog station is on VHF and the paired DTV 
station is on UHF.  For instance, I am the CE for an eleven station 
network...most of our megewatt UHF analog stations are coverage matched very 
well by their 50 KW digital counterparts.  The rule of thumb is that average 
digital power is 12 dB less than peak analog power.

Hap Griffin
WZ4O 





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread nj902 
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dengler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"Couldn't one use a directional coupler instead of a RL bridge?  ..."
_

Yes.  Directional couplers and return loss bridges are both classified 
as "signal separation" devices.  They differ in internal design, 
directivity, port match, insertion loss and so on but both perform the 
same function.







 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

RE: [Repeater-Builder] color tv antennas

2005-12-21 Thread N9WYS 
It depends on whether you have an HDTV-ready repeater…  If not, you’ll also
need to purchase an HDTV set-top box and interface that into the repeater.

Mark – N9WYS


From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Huber
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 2:48 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] color tv antennas

Come on Guys!

I just want to know how to get HDTV on my repeater.  :-)

Chris N6ICW








 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Repeater-Builder] color tv antennas

2005-12-21 Thread Chris Huber 




Come on Guys!
I just want to know how to get HDTV on my repeater.  :-)
Chris N6ICW

Message: 21    
   Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 18:54:28 -
   From: "skipp025" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: color tv antennas
Not so fast...  you might consider researching the 
name Swan (not related to the radio company) and 
the log cell yagi antenna.  Mr Swan pretty much invented 
the early Color TV Antenna Technology you now see used. 
Much of his research and design was directly related to 
Color TV Antennas. 














  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread Eric Lemmon 
Larry,

Eagle is perhaps the best-known manufacturer of RLBs.  Go here:



RLBs made by Eagle range from about $400 to more than $900, depending 
upon the type of connectors, frequency range, and the precision.  There 
are links on the above URL that take you to the very informative 
library of application notes.  There are other manufacturers of RLBs, 
such as Hewlett-Packard, Wiltron, Rohde & Schwarz, and Microlab/FXR, 
but these are more costly and of laboratory quality.

Once I bought my HP network analyzer, I put my Eagle RLB on the shelf 
but will keep it as a backup.  Please consider that the RLB is only as 
accurate as the spectrum analyzer you use with it, so if the analyzer 
does not have an accurate and stable internal oscillator, you may be 
wasting your time trying to tune a duplexer with an RLB.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

Quoting "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Who makes a Return Loss Bridge? Any idea of the approximate cost?
> LJ
>
>
> -Original Message-
>> From: Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: Dec 21, 2005 7:42 AM
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge
>>
>> Gary,
>>
>> A return loss bridge (RLB) is an extremely useful tool for tuning the
>> pass function of a BpBr duplexer.  That's because the bandpass response
>> of each cavity in a BpBr duplexer is very subtle- nothing like the peak
>> you will see in a bandpass-only cavity.  Even when three BpBr cavities
>> are in series, the bandpass response is rather wide.
>>
>> An RLB allows any good spectrum analyzer to emulate the reflection
>> capability of a vector network analyzer to a sufficient degree that
>> bandpass tuning can be much more precise.  Instead of viewing the
>> transmission bump, you can view the reflection notch- which is very
>> sharp.  With such a clear indication of the bandpass tuning, the cavity
>> can be tuned within a few kHz of the exact pass frequency.
>>
>> It is essential that all interconnecting cables and connector cables be
>> of very high quality, and the spectrum analyzer's reference oscillator
>> be on frequency.  It takes some practice to use an RLB correctly, but
>> it can allow you to tune a duplexer with remarkable precision.
>>
>> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>>
>>
>> Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>>
>>>
>>> Gentlemen,
>>>Will be starting a new science project setting up  Wacom 641 on 
>>> 2 meters.
>>> Have a Rohde & Schwarz monitor receiver with S  meter, DB pads, dummy loads
>>> etc. Plus an IFR 1500. But I see comments on a unit  called a 'return loss
>>> bridge' for the IFR. How important is this return loss  bridge and
>>> what is it's
>>> claim to fame? Do I really need one? Also have an old HP  8554B Spectrum
>>> Analyzer.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Gary  K2UQ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>







 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] color tv antennas

2005-12-21 Thread mch 
Skipp,

Usually I would not argue with you, but..

So your point is that the B&W antennas only cover segments of each
channel while the color antennas cover the entire 6 MHz segment?

IOW, the B&W are resonant every 6 MHz, but not continuous?

Or... (resonance plots in ASCII graphic form)

B&W: 54 MHz '''\___/'''\___/'''\___/'\___/'''\___/''' 88 MHz

Color: 54 MHz _ 88 MHz

While that is technically possible, I find it very unlikely.

Joe M.

skipp025 wrote:
> 
> I had a nice chat with Mike of M2 Antennas (was the "M"
> of KLM) about Mr. Swan and his information is valid
> regarding the wider bandwidth and performance of his
> Color TV Antennas.  They are just a better antenna...
> 
> cheers,
> skipp





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread mch 
But isn't that relative to your distance (or path) from the station you
want to receive? The lower gain antennas would work just fine if the
signal is strong enough.

What you said is effectively (in FM terms): Simplex antennas need higher
gain to make up for the weaker signals over repeaters. So why aren't
there repeater antennas and simplex antennas? (aside from the quality
aspects)

Joe M.

Jim B. wrote:
> 
> The only difference is that color requires more signal then b&w, and
> digital requires more signal then color. (Just like stereo FM requires
> more signal then mono.) Hence the fact, if one looked, that "color"
> antennas were just higher gain, and "digital" antennas are more gain yet.
> 
> --
> Jim Barbour
> WD8CHL





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread mch 
Wouldn't that be equivallent to 'ghosting' on analog TV?

Wouldn't directional antennas be better for that reason?

Joe M.

Hap Griffin wrote:
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "mch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 7:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant 
> 
> > You know, this subject (mail subject line) reminds me of the stories I
> > was told about them coming out with antennas for *COLOR* TV that were
> > interpreted to be different from B&W TV antennas. Supposedly, for color
> > TV you needed a Color TV antenna.
> >
> > B&W TV, Color TV, HDTV... they ALL use the same frequencies and the same
> > antennas would work equally well.
> >
> > Joe M.
> >
> 
> Yes, that is true, to a point.  The 8VSB modulation used by DTV is prone to
> multipath interference.  This is easily seen with a spectrum analyzer when
> turning an antenna...multipath will show up as a notch (or multiple notches)
> in what is supposed to be a flat noise-like energy spectrum form the DTV
> transmitter.  Depending on where the notch is in the spectrum and its depth,
> the digital decoder and loose lock on the signal with the result being the
> dreaded blue TV screen.  Thus, the best DTV performance is from antennas
> that are more directional which reject any off-axis multipath signals
> better.  Multipath is why indoor antenna reception of DTV is so touchy.
> However, the later generations of tuner chipsets are getting much better at
> multipath compensation.
> 
> Hap Griffin
> VP-Engineering
> SCETV
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread mch 
How do you interface an antenna to your repeater? There should be an
antenna port on your repeater or duplexer t which you connect the
antenna.

The same issues relate to repeaters, BTW - there are no antennas for FM
vs AM vs SSB vs APRS vs packet vs Etc., Etc. Etc. They are all the SAME
and only vary in the fact that they are usually a more narrow bandwidth,
but that's a function of frequency coverage, not mode used.

Joe M.

Daron J. Wilson wrote:
> 
> More importantly to this group, how do I interface it to my repeater ??
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mch
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 4:48 PM
> > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant 
> >
> > You know, this subject (mail subject line) reminds me of the stories I
> > was told about them coming out with antennas for *COLOR* TV that were
> > interpreted to be different from B&W TV antennas. Supposedly, for color
> > TV you needed a Color TV antenna.
> >
> > B&W TV, Color TV, HDTV... they ALL use the same frequencies and the same
> > antennas would work equally well.
> >
> > Joe M.
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Repeater-Builder] color tv antennas

2005-12-21 Thread skipp025 
Not so fast...  you might consider researching the 
name Swan (not related to the radio company) and 
the log cell yagi antenna.  Mr Swan pretty much invented 
the early Color TV Antenna Technology you now see used. 
Much of his research and design was directly related to 
Color TV Antennas. 

Mr Swan was a very big VHF weak signal fan... his designs 
and patents were used by KLM for their early antennas. 

I had a nice chat with Mike of M2 Antennas (was the "M" 
of KLM) about Mr. Swan and his information is valid 
regarding the wider bandwidth and performance of his 
Color TV Antennas.  They are just a better antenna... 

cheers,
skipp 

> > "Jim B." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: mch wrote:
> > You know, this subject (mail subject line) reminds 
> > me of the stories I was told about them coming out 
> > with antennas for *COLOR* TV that were interpreted 
> > to be different from B&W TV antennas. Supposedly, 
> > for color TV you needed a Color TV antenna.
> > 
> > B&W TV, Color TV, HDTV... they ALL use the same 
> > frequencies and the same antennas would work equally 
> > well.
> > Joe M.
> 







 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread mch 
BTW, any stations running both analog and digital under one callsign
will be licensed for the digital as (call)-DT.

Joe M.

Bil Munsil wrote:
> 
> Here is a list of all the TV stations in Indiana.
> Maybe some of them are running HDTV.
> Maybe some are in your viewing area.
> 
> KERO-TV
> KTVN
> KWHB
> KWHD
> KWHE
> KWHH
> KWHM
> WAZE-TV
> WCLJ-TV
> WFWA
> WFYI
> WHMB-TV
> WHME-TV
> WHNO
> WINM
> WIPB
> WKOI-TV
> WNDU-TV
> WNIN
> WNIT
> WRCB-TV
> WRTV
> WSBT-TV
> WSJV
> WTHR
> WTIU
> WTTK
> WTTV
> WVUT
> WXIN
> WYIN
> 
> Bil
> 
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Toby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > hi just got me a hdtv at mal mart with hdtv tuner build inside.
> >  i get the best tv picture  i every had. here  ..
> >  at what freqency in the uhf band is the hdtv send on...
> >  cant seem to find it anywhere  on the internet...???
> >
> > i useing  a homebuild uhf ant with a pre amp..
> >   would like to build the ant for for the hdtv frequency..?
> >   toby...n9fdf
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread Robin Midgett 
Compared to using a RLB in conjunction with a service monitor (such 
as an IFR 1500) or a network analyzer, the Bird 43 is cumbersome and 
time wasting. It will get the job done, but with less accuracy and 
much more time invested. I'd consider it a minimal effort at tuning a 
duplexer, not a thorough method at all.
And no, it isn't a RLB by the definition.

At 10:35 AM 12/21/2005, you wrote:
>The Bird Model 43 is a typical RLB.  You can also use a network analyzer.
>
>Dick
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: 21 December, 2005 08:20
>Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge
>
>
>Who makes a Return Loss Bridge? Any idea of the approximate cost?
>LJ
>
>
>-Original Message-
> >From: Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Dec 21, 2005 7:42 AM
> >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge
> >
> >Gary,
> >
> >A return loss bridge (RLB) is an extremely useful tool for tuning the
> >pass function of a BpBr duplexer.  That's because the bandpass response
> >of each cavity in a BpBr duplexer is very subtle- nothing like the peak
> >you will see in a bandpass-only cavity.  Even when three BpBr cavities
> >are in series, the bandpass response is rather wide.
> >
> >An RLB allows any good spectrum analyzer to emulate the reflection
> >capability of a vector network analyzer to a sufficient degree that
> >bandpass tuning can be much more precise.  Instead of viewing the
> >transmission bump, you can view the reflection notch- which is very
> >sharp.  With such a clear indication of the bandpass tuning, the cavity
> >can be tuned within a few kHz of the exact pass frequency.
> >
> >It is essential that all interconnecting cables and connector cables be
> >of very high quality, and the spectrum analyzer's reference oscillator
> >be on frequency.  It takes some practice to use an RLB correctly, but
> >it can allow you to tune a duplexer with remarkable precision.
> >
> >73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> >
> >
> >Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> >
> >>
> >> Gentlemen,
> >>Will be starting a new science project setting up  Wacom 641 on 2
> >> meters.
> >> Have a Rohde & Schwarz monitor receiver with S  meter, DB pads, dummy
> >> loads
> >> etc. Plus an IFR 1500. But I see comments on a unit  called a 'return
> >> loss
> >> bridge' for the IFR. How important is this return loss  bridge and
> >> what is it's
> >> claim to fame? Do I really need one? Also have an old HP  8554B Spectrum
> >> Analyzer.
> >> Thanks,
> >> Gary  K2UQ
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Thanks,
Robin Midgett K4IDC
615-322-5836 office - rolls to pager
615-835-7699 pager
615-301-1642 home
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.people.vanderbilt.edu/~robin.midgett/index.htm 





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread skipp025 

> A return loss bridge (RLB) is an extremely useful 
> tool for tuning the pass function of a BpBr duplexer.

Gets you into the ball park. One should know the 
desired adjustment posistions do change when the 
cavity is "under power".  Higher rf power levels mean 
larger value changes (final adjustments). 

Something to keep in mind when you're trying for 
that extra performance. 

cheers,
skipp 







 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread Jim B. 
mch wrote:

> You know, this subject (mail subject line) reminds me of the stories I
> was told about them coming out with antennas for *COLOR* TV that were
> interpreted to be different from B&W TV antennas. Supposedly, for color
> TV you needed a Color TV antenna.
> 
> B&W TV, Color TV, HDTV... they ALL use the same frequencies and the same
> antennas would work equally well.
> 
> Joe M.

The only difference is that color requires more signal then b&w, and 
digital requires more signal then color. (Just like stereo FM requires 
more signal then mono.) Hence the fact, if one looked, that "color" 
antennas were just higher gain, and "digital" antennas are more gain yet.

-- 
Jim Barbour
WD8CHL





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread Robin Midgett 
The two brands I'm familiar with are Mini Circuits & Eagle.
Ditto on usefulness...also good for tuning receiver front ends and PA 
outputs...powered off, of course.

At 10:20 AM 12/21/2005, you wrote:
>Who makes a Return Loss Bridge? Any idea of the approximate cost?
>LJ
>
>
>-Original Message-
> >From: Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Dec 21, 2005 7:42 AM
> >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge
> >
> >Gary,
> >
> >A return loss bridge (RLB) is an extremely useful tool for tuning the
> >pass function of a BpBr duplexer.  That's because the bandpass response
> >of each cavity in a BpBr duplexer is very subtle- nothing like the peak
> >you will see in a bandpass-only cavity.  Even when three BpBr cavities
> >are in series, the bandpass response is rather wide.
> >
> >An RLB allows any good spectrum analyzer to emulate the reflection
> >capability of a vector network analyzer to a sufficient degree that
> >bandpass tuning can be much more precise.  Instead of viewing the
> >transmission bump, you can view the reflection notch- which is very
> >sharp.  With such a clear indication of the bandpass tuning, the cavity
> >can be tuned within a few kHz of the exact pass frequency.
> >
> >It is essential that all interconnecting cables and connector cables be
> >of very high quality, and the spectrum analyzer's reference oscillator
> >be on frequency.  It takes some practice to use an RLB correctly, but
> >it can allow you to tune a duplexer with remarkable precision.
> >
> >73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> >
> >
> >Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> >
> >>
> >> Gentlemen,
> >>Will be starting a new science project setting up  Wacom 641 
> on 2 meters.
> >> Have a Rohde & Schwarz monitor receiver with S  meter, DB pads, 
> dummy loads
> >> etc. Plus an IFR 1500. But I see comments on a unit  called a 'return loss
> >> bridge' for the IFR. How important is this return loss  bridge and
> >> what is it's
> >> claim to fame? Do I really need one? Also have an old HP  8554B Spectrum
> >> Analyzer.
> >> Thanks,
> >> Gary  K2UQ
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Thanks,
Robin Midgett K4IDC
615-322-5836 office - rolls to pager
615-835-7699 pager
615-301-1642 home
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.people.vanderbilt.edu/~robin.midgett/index.htm 





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread Hap Griffin 

- Original Message - 
From: "mch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant 


> You know, this subject (mail subject line) reminds me of the stories I
> was told about them coming out with antennas for *COLOR* TV that were
> interpreted to be different from B&W TV antennas. Supposedly, for color
> TV you needed a Color TV antenna.
>
> B&W TV, Color TV, HDTV... they ALL use the same frequencies and the same
> antennas would work equally well.
>
> Joe M.
>

Yes, that is true, to a point.  The 8VSB modulation used by DTV is prone to 
multipath interference.  This is easily seen with a spectrum analyzer when 
turning an antenna...multipath will show up as a notch (or multiple notches) 
in what is supposed to be a flat noise-like energy spectrum form the DTV 
transmitter.  Depending on where the notch is in the spectrum and its depth, 
the digital decoder and loose lock on the signal with the result being the 
dreaded blue TV screen.  Thus, the best DTV performance is from antennas 
that are more directional which reject any off-axis multipath signals 
better.  Multipath is why indoor antenna reception of DTV is so touchy. 
However, the later generations of tuner chipsets are getting much better at 
multipath compensation.

Hap Griffin
VP-Engineering
SCETV 







 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread Dick 
Technically, yes, but any means of obtaining the return loss
gets you the info you need.

I use an old network analyzer that's one of the handiest
gadgets around.

Dick

- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff DePolo WN3A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: 21 December, 2005 09:26
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge



The Bird is a directional wattmeter.  It's not a return loss bridge (it's
not a bridge at all).  Yes, you can compute a spot-frequency measurement of
return loss that way, that doesn't help you with swept-frequency analysis
using a spectrum analyzer and tracking generator.


> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dick
> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 12:01 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return 
> Loss Bridge
> 
> 
> Yes, really.  You measure the forward power, then turn the 
> element around 
> and measure the
> reflected power.  Then use 10 log (FP/RP) and you have the 
> return loss in 
> dB.
> 
> Dick
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Jeff DePolo WN3A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: 21 December, 2005 08:46
> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return 
> Loss Bridge
> 
> 
> > The Bird Model 43 is a typical RLB.
> 
> Oh really???!??!?
> 
> The Eagle return loss bridges are a good value for the buck.
> www.eagle-1st.com.  They have a whitepaper on tuning duplexers too.
> http://www.eagle-1st.com/notes/duplex/body.htm
> 
> I believe IFR (now Aeroflex) sells (or at least sold) the Eagle RLB's.
> 
> --- Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 





 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 







 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread Jeff DePolo WN3A 

The Bird is a directional wattmeter.  It's not a return loss bridge (it's
not a bridge at all).  Yes, you can compute a spot-frequency measurement of
return loss that way, that doesn't help you with swept-frequency analysis
using a spectrum analyzer and tracking generator.


> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dick
> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 12:01 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return 
> Loss Bridge
> 
> 
> Yes, really.  You measure the forward power, then turn the 
> element around 
> and measure the
> reflected power.  Then use 10 log (FP/RP) and you have the 
> return loss in 
> dB.
> 
> Dick
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Jeff DePolo WN3A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: 21 December, 2005 08:46
> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return 
> Loss Bridge
> 
> 
> > The Bird Model 43 is a typical RLB.
> 
> Oh really???!??!?
> 
> The Eagle return loss bridges are a good value for the buck.
> www.eagle-1st.com.  They have a whitepaper on tuning duplexers too.
> http://www.eagle-1st.com/notes/duplex/body.htm
> 
> I believe IFR (now Aeroflex) sells (or at least sold) the Eagle RLB's.
> 
> --- Jeff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread Roger White 
A good discussion on testing using a return loss bridge should be 
found wherever the old Hewlett Packard App. Notes are on the web. 

A return loss bridge in its simplest application is a dual 
directional coupler with detectors (or power meters) on the coupled 
ports. The forward port samples the forward power on the line and the 
reflected port the reflected power coming back from the load being 
looked at. If you have power meters on both ports, the difference in 
these power levels is the return loss of the device under test. You 
can relate return loss to VSWR, of course. If detectors are on the 
ports, the detector on the reflected port will have almost equal 
voltage as the forward detector (for a terrible VSWR) and 
progressively less voltage as the load VSWR gets better (toward 50 
ohms).

Roger
W5RD  

> 
> Couldn't one use a directional coupler instead of a RL bridge?  The 
> directivity probably wouldn't be quite as good, but a surplus 
coupler would 
> be a lot cheaper.
> 
> Bob NO6B
>








 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread Bob Dengler 
At 12/21/2005 01:28 AM, you wrote:
>I just tuned a set of 641's with my IFR1500, a couple of 3dB pads, and a 
>dummy load for the unused port while tuning it up.  That's all you should 
>need to get them tuned.  You can also use the RL bridge to optimize the 50 
>ohm match.  See this article:
>http://www.eagle-1st.com/notes/duplex/body.htm

Couldn't one use a directional coupler instead of a RL bridge?  The 
directivity probably wouldn't be quite as good, but a surplus coupler would 
be a lot cheaper.

Bob NO6B






 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread Dick 
Yes, really.  You measure the forward power, then turn the element around 
and measure the
reflected power.  Then use 10 log (FP/RP) and you have the return loss in 
dB.

Dick

- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff DePolo WN3A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: 21 December, 2005 08:46
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge


> The Bird Model 43 is a typical RLB.

Oh really???!??!?

The Eagle return loss bridges are a good value for the buck.
www.eagle-1st.com.  They have a whitepaper on tuning duplexers too.
http://www.eagle-1st.com/notes/duplex/body.htm

I believe IFR (now Aeroflex) sells (or at least sold) the Eagle RLB's.

--- Jeff






Yahoo! Groups Links











 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread Jeff DePolo WN3A 
> The Bird Model 43 is a typical RLB.  

Oh really???!??!?

The Eagle return loss bridges are a good value for the buck.
www.eagle-1st.com.  They have a whitepaper on tuning duplexers too.
http://www.eagle-1st.com/notes/duplex/body.htm

I believe IFR (now Aeroflex) sells (or at least sold) the Eagle RLB's.

--- Jeff





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning

2005-12-21 Thread Dick 
Here's a complete procedure right here on the group's web site.

73,

Dick


http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/duptuning.html




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread Dick 





Gary:
 
The easiest instrument combo I've used 
to tune a duplexer
is an RF sweep generator and a spectrum 
analyzer.
 
Use dummy load to terminate the 
duplexer ports not connected to the sweeper or analyzer.
 
If you need more help, feel free to 
email me directly.
 
73,
 
Dick W1NMZ
 
- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 20 December, 2005 21:48
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss 
Bridge

  
Gentlemen,
Will be starting a new science project setting up 
Wacom 641 on 2 meters. Have a Rohde & Schwarz monitor receiver with S 
meter, DB pads, dummy loads etc. Plus an IFR 1500. But I see comments on a unit 
called a 'return loss bridge' for the IFR. How important is this return loss 
bridge and what is it's claim to fame? Do I really need one? Also have an old HP 
8554B Spectrum Analyzer. 
Thanks,
Gary  K2UQ
 













  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread Dick 
The Bird Model 43 is a typical RLB.  You can also use a network analyzer.

Dick

- Original Message - 
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: 21 December, 2005 08:20
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge


Who makes a Return Loss Bridge? Any idea of the approximate cost?
LJ


-Original Message-
>From: Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Dec 21, 2005 7:42 AM
>To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge
>
>Gary,
>
>A return loss bridge (RLB) is an extremely useful tool for tuning the
>pass function of a BpBr duplexer.  That's because the bandpass response
>of each cavity in a BpBr duplexer is very subtle- nothing like the peak
>you will see in a bandpass-only cavity.  Even when three BpBr cavities
>are in series, the bandpass response is rather wide.
>
>An RLB allows any good spectrum analyzer to emulate the reflection
>capability of a vector network analyzer to a sufficient degree that
>bandpass tuning can be much more precise.  Instead of viewing the
>transmission bump, you can view the reflection notch- which is very
>sharp.  With such a clear indication of the bandpass tuning, the cavity
>can be tuned within a few kHz of the exact pass frequency.
>
>It is essential that all interconnecting cables and connector cables be
>of very high quality, and the spectrum analyzer's reference oscillator
>be on frequency.  It takes some practice to use an RLB correctly, but
>it can allow you to tune a duplexer with remarkable precision.
>
>73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>
>
>Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>
>>
>> Gentlemen,
>>Will be starting a new science project setting up  Wacom 641 on 2 
>> meters.
>> Have a Rohde & Schwarz monitor receiver with S  meter, DB pads, dummy 
>> loads
>> etc. Plus an IFR 1500. But I see comments on a unit  called a 'return 
>> loss
>> bridge' for the IFR. How important is this return loss  bridge and
>> what is it's
>> claim to fame? Do I really need one? Also have an old HP  8554B Spectrum
>> Analyzer.
>> Thanks,
>> Gary  K2UQ
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>






Yahoo! Groups Links












 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Who makes a Return Loss Bridge? Any idea of the approximate cost?
LJ


-Original Message-
>From: Eric Lemmon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Dec 21, 2005 7:42 AM
>To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge
>
>Gary,
>
>A return loss bridge (RLB) is an extremely useful tool for tuning the 
>pass function of a BpBr duplexer.  That's because the bandpass response 
>of each cavity in a BpBr duplexer is very subtle- nothing like the peak 
>you will see in a bandpass-only cavity.  Even when three BpBr cavities 
>are in series, the bandpass response is rather wide.
>
>An RLB allows any good spectrum analyzer to emulate the reflection 
>capability of a vector network analyzer to a sufficient degree that 
>bandpass tuning can be much more precise.  Instead of viewing the 
>transmission bump, you can view the reflection notch- which is very 
>sharp.  With such a clear indication of the bandpass tuning, the cavity 
>can be tuned within a few kHz of the exact pass frequency.
>
>It is essential that all interconnecting cables and connector cables be 
>of very high quality, and the spectrum analyzer's reference oscillator 
>be on frequency.  It takes some practice to use an RLB correctly, but 
>it can allow you to tune a duplexer with remarkable precision.
>
>73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
>
>
>Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
>
>>
>> Gentlemen,
>>Will be starting a new science project setting up  Wacom 641 on 2 meters.
>> Have a Rohde & Schwarz monitor receiver with S  meter, DB pads, dummy loads
>> etc. Plus an IFR 1500. But I see comments on a unit  called a 'return loss
>> bridge' for the IFR. How important is this return loss  bridge and 
>> what is it's
>> claim to fame? Do I really need one? Also have an old HP  8554B Spectrum
>> Analyzer.
>> Thanks,
>> Gary  K2UQ
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread Doug Zastrow 





Eric & the Group...
 
From discussion of vector network analyzers / return loss 
bridges on the list it certainly appears that this is the gold-standard for 
duplexer alignment.  Can anyone provide link(s) to a comprehensive tutorial 
on the subject?
 
Sometimes old dogs like me have to work a bit to learn new 
tricks but that doesn't stop me from trying!
 
While I have everyone...  I'd like to thank all of the 
list contributors who share their knowledge for the good of everyone.  It 
is truly appreciated.
 
A Joyous Holiday Season to all!
 
 
Doug

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Eric Lemmon 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 9:42 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer 
  tuning with Return Loss Bridge
  Gary,A return loss bridge (RLB) is an extremely useful 
  tool for tuning the pass function of a BpBr duplexer.  That's because 
  the bandpass response of each cavity in a BpBr duplexer is very subtle- 
  nothing like the peak you will see in a bandpass-only cavity.  Even 
  when three BpBr cavities are in series, the bandpass response is rather 
  wide.An RLB allows any good spectrum analyzer to emulate the 
  reflection capability of a vector network analyzer to a sufficient degree 
  that bandpass tuning can be much more precise.  Instead of viewing 
  the transmission bump, you can view the reflection notch- which is very 
  sharp.  With such a clear indication of the bandpass tuning, the 
  cavity can be tuned within a few kHz of the exact pass 
  frequency.It is essential that all interconnecting cables and 
  connector cables be of very high quality, and the spectrum analyzer's 
  reference oscillator be on frequency.  It takes some practice to use 
  an RLB correctly, but it can allow you to tune a duplexer with remarkable 
  precision.73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY













  




  
  
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



   Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. 
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread Neil McKie 

  Was that on a GE TV? 

  Thanks Fred, 

  Merry Christmas to all / Happy New Year too.

  Neil - WA6KLA 

FHS wrote:
> 
> The Channel 2 Color Ant is for all of 6 Meter.
> The B&W is for the FM portion only.
> 
> Merry Christmas To All!
> 
> Fred   W5VAY
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Daron J. Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 7:57 PM
> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant 
> 
> > More importantly to this group, how do I interface it to my repeater ??
> >
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mch
> >> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 4:48 PM
> >> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant 
> >>
> >> You know, this subject (mail subject line) reminds me of the stories I
> >> was told about them coming out with antennas for *COLOR* TV that were
> >> interpreted to be different from B&W TV antennas. Supposedly, for color
> >> TV you needed a Color TV antenna.
> >>
> >> B&W TV, Color TV, HDTV... they ALL use the same frequencies and the same
> >> antennas would work equally well.
> >>
> >> Joe M.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread Eric Lemmon 
Gary,

A return loss bridge (RLB) is an extremely useful tool for tuning the 
pass function of a BpBr duplexer.  That's because the bandpass response 
of each cavity in a BpBr duplexer is very subtle- nothing like the peak 
you will see in a bandpass-only cavity.  Even when three BpBr cavities 
are in series, the bandpass response is rather wide.

An RLB allows any good spectrum analyzer to emulate the reflection 
capability of a vector network analyzer to a sufficient degree that 
bandpass tuning can be much more precise.  Instead of viewing the 
transmission bump, you can view the reflection notch- which is very 
sharp.  With such a clear indication of the bandpass tuning, the cavity 
can be tuned within a few kHz of the exact pass frequency.

It is essential that all interconnecting cables and connector cables be 
of very high quality, and the spectrum analyzer's reference oscillator 
be on frequency.  It takes some practice to use an RLB correctly, but 
it can allow you to tune a duplexer with remarkable precision.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY


Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

>
> Gentlemen,
>Will be starting a new science project setting up  Wacom 641 on 2 meters.
> Have a Rohde & Schwarz monitor receiver with S  meter, DB pads, dummy loads
> etc. Plus an IFR 1500. But I see comments on a unit  called a 'return loss
> bridge' for the IFR. How important is this return loss  bridge and 
> what is it's
> claim to fame? Do I really need one? Also have an old HP  8554B Spectrum
> Analyzer.
> Thanks,
> Gary  K2UQ
>
>
>







 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Repeater-Builder] OT best repeaters along I 75 to FL

2005-12-21 Thread Rick & Charlotte 
We are going to take a trip south the FL along I75 

what are the best repeaters to use 144/222/440 ?  

with or with out IRLP links


Sorry for the off topic but I would like to have them ready to program 
into the radio before we leave !

Thank .. and sorry of the OT post 

Rick




Rick,Charlote & Kids
Daisy , Sir Red-A-Lot

Our Border Collie Message Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Website 
www.karolinabc.ca






 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Repeater-Builder] Looking for some Motorola servics manuals.

2005-12-21 Thread Al 
I'm looking for the following Motorola manuals.

R100 UHF repeater manual, Visar UHF and VHF, Maxtrac UHF and VHF. 
Please email off the list.

Thanks, Al





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

RE: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread Mike Perryman 
Fred,
Did you earn the "worked all neighbors" award?  Kind of sounds like it!!

mike

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of FHS
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 9:13 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant 


The Channel 2 Color Ant is for all of 6 Meter.
The B&W is for the FM portion only.

Merry Christmas To All!

Fred   W5VAY






 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant ????

2005-12-21 Thread FHS 
The Channel 2 Color Ant is for all of 6 Meter.
The B&W is for the FM portion only.

Merry Christmas To All!

Fred   W5VAY

- Original Message - 
From: "Daron J. Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 7:57 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant 


> More importantly to this group, how do I interface it to my repeater ??
> 
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mch
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 4:48 PM
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] hdtv radio shack ant 
>> 
>> You know, this subject (mail subject line) reminds me of the stories I
>> was told about them coming out with antennas for *COLOR* TV that were
>> interpreted to be different from B&W TV antennas. Supposedly, for color
>> TV you needed a Color TV antenna.
>> 
>> B&W TV, Color TV, HDTV... they ALL use the same frequencies and the same
>> antennas would work equally well.
>> 
>> Joe M.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Radio Shack 10% Off Coupon good to 12/23

2005-12-21 Thread Neil McKie 

  I suppose you can have black and white ... just turn off the color. 

  Neil  

vmckever wrote:
> 
> Are they still black and white Neil?  Just could not pass that up
> 
> Vincent N6OA
> - Original Message -
> From: "Neil McKie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 11:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Radio Shack 10% Off Coupon good to 12/23
> 
> >
> >  I used to have a RCA TV ... was a black and white ... got it back
> > in the late fifties.
> >
> >  Now I have a Sony, a Toshiba and a couple of others too.
> >
> >  Neil
> >
> >
> >> "Mark A. Holman" wrote:
> >>
> >> Say I did see a AKAI TV set there seems like they are venturing
> >> the consumer mkt. also Sams Club carries AKAI also.
> >>
> >> I already have a RCA TV
> >>
> >> Neil McKie wrote:
> >>
> >> >   May work ok ... if you bother going to radio shaft at all ...
> >> >
> >> >   Neil - WA6KLA
> >> >
> >> > Mike Morris wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> > Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 22:21:38 -
> >> >> > Subject: Radio Shack 10% Off Coupon
> >> >> >
> >> >> > http://www.radioshack.com/graphics/email/RSK_12_16_05_1.html
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Expires 23 December
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >>
> >>+  Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web.
> >>
> >>+  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >>+  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> >>  Service.
> >>
> >> --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>





 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Radio Shack 10% Off Coupon good to 12/23

2005-12-21 Thread vmckever 
Are they still black and white Neil?  Just could not pass that up

Vincent N6OA
- Original Message - 
From: "Neil McKie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Radio Shack 10% Off Coupon good to 12/23


> 
>  I used to have a RCA TV ... was a black and white ... got it back 
> in the late fifties.  
> 
>  Now I have a Sony, a Toshiba and a couple of others too. 
> 
>  Neil 
> 
> 
>> "Mark A. Holman" wrote:
>> 
>> Say I did see a AKAI TV set there seems like they are venturing 
>> the consumer mkt. also Sams Club carries AKAI also.
>> 
>> I already have a RCA TV
>> 
>> Neil McKie wrote:
>> 
>> >   May work ok ... if you bother going to radio shaft at all ...
>> >
>> >   Neil - WA6KLA
>> >
>> > Mike Morris wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> > Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 22:21:38 -
>> >> > Subject: Radio Shack 10% Off Coupon
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.radioshack.com/graphics/email/RSK_12_16_05_1.html
>> >> >
>> >> > Expires 23 December
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> --
>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>> 
>>+  Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web.
>> 
>>+  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> 
>>+  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>>  Service.
>> 
>> --
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
>




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Duplexer tuning with Return Loss Bridge

2005-12-21 Thread k1ike_mail 
I just tuned a set of 641's with my IFR1500, a couple of 3dB pads, and a dummy 
load for the unused port while tuning it up.  That's all you should need to get 
them tuned.  You can also use the RL bridge to optimize the 50 ohm match.  See 
this article:
http://www.eagle-1st.com/notes/duplex/body.htm

I also have the Wiltron RL bridge that I used to use for testing antennas, but 
no longer use that since I have access to an Anritsu Sitemaster.  For example, 
the RL bridge will allow you to sweep an antenna using the IFR1500 and see what 
the resonant point of the antenna is.  The old way would be to take many VSWR 
readings with a wattmeter and plot the readings. 

73, Joe, K1ike

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
>  
> Gentlemen,
> Will be starting a new science project setting up  Wacom 641 on 2 meters. 
> Have a Rohde & Schwarz monitor receiver with S  meter, DB pads, dummy loads 
> etc. Plus an IFR 1500. But I see comments on a unit  called a 'return loss 
> bridge' for the IFR. How important is this return loss  bridge and what is 
> it's 
> claim to fame? Do I really need one? Also have an old HP  8554B Spectrum 
> Analyzer. 




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/